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Job Hopping (1 Viewer)

SHIZNITTTT

SHIZNITTTT

Footballguy
I was having a discussion with my MIL who has worked in the healthcare field since 1960. She has worked for the same hospital that trained her to become a RN. There were numerous years she told me where they got no pay increases, and several years where she may received a 25 cent raise. She has stated that people just didn't job hop from her generation. You were happy to have a job, and loyalty to the company was very important.

At this point my mind is just spinning, and my head is hurting from the way she has been brainwashed. Ok, fast forward to 1990's when I went to work in the medical field. My wife graduated college the same time as I did so I will use our pay scales, including my MIL's to compare job hopping to staying stagnant.

1996

MIL makes roughly 55k been in job for 35 years

Me - started working as a RN 15/dollars an hour entry level 30k salary around 10k in o.t first year 40K roughly (probably made more because I could never say no to O.T. early in my career.

Wife - started same time as me while working on finishing her bachelors, and working fulltime in L&D - 15/hour plus she got a 10K sign on bonus to be paid out over 2 years. She makes roughly 40K as well first year with O.T. and bonus money.

2001 MIL makes rougly 55K still been in job 40 Years (WTF!!!)

Me - I switched jobs twice both times getting around 10K bonus each time being paid out over 2 years. Each time I switched jobs I got a significant pay raise. At this point I have been working as a RN for 5 years. Making 21/hour plus bonuses. making roughly 50K to 55k per year with O.T.

Wife finished with bachelors and finished with Masters in Neonatal Nurse Practitioner

Her last year she was making 17.50 an hour

Fast forward 2010

MIL still making less than 60K almost 50 years on the job (Vomit)

I have switched jobs so many times I can't remember all of them. I once I had 4 jobs in 1 year.

In 2010 I was making over 70K no O.T. in a management position.

Wife can't really compare at this point because she is working as a NP and a #### ton more money.

My point is that at least in healthcare you have to switch jobs frequently to get significant pay raises. Most companies that run healthcare give across the board crap raises of 3% to everyone. Good employees and bad employees.

sorry for any typos

 
People don't stay with the same company very long these days. There are a lot of reasons for it....

Companies don't have as much loyalty to the employees as they use to and employees don't have much loyalty back.

The companies are bigger and more impersonal.

Pensions are almost a thing of the past and retirement plans are mobile.

Disruptions in industries and markets over the years.

Technology advances making it 'easier' to look for or source new hires.

Bad management. (#1 reason people leave their current jobs are their managers)

Poor management decisions in things like lack of investment in developing and retaining current employees in favor of hiring outside.

And more.

I use to work for a large company that had a very strong culture. It is no longer around but it has a strong enough pull that there is a closed Facebook page for the company that started a few months ago. It has hundreds of new people joining it daily and tons of posts with people talking about how great it was, best job ever, etc. I now work for your more typical company in the industry. My current employer is seen as one of the best in the industry, good place to work, etc but it wouldn't take much for me to jump ship. There is no reason why not to. As much as culture goes, there is not much difference from this company to most of it's peers. So, the difference is pay. Who is going to pay me the most? I am there. To keep me there, make it a decent place to work and you can keep me unless someone offers me a chunk more money to leave.

 
I heard on the radio that it's down to about the 2 year mark that people are hopping now. Personally I'm glad I stayed the 3rd year (against the wishes of my wife), that's when I caught my break.

 
She has stated that people just didn't job hop from her generation. You were happy to have a job, and loyalty to the company was very important.
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Old people are stupid.

 
Since I've been out of school I've had 4 jobs

Job 1 - 1.5 years...left because I was really underpaid

Job 2 - 5 years...company was on the verge of bankruptcy and demoted me rather than lay me off (same pay so that was cool)

Job 3 - 3.5 years - was happy but came across an opportunity that was about a 20% bump so i left

Job 4 - 4 years - still here. May be taking over a new position. If not...getting the itch to shop around

 
I love when I tell my parents that my company is starting to go down. They thinks its the end of my career and I'm going to be out of work for years. I can't even explain it to them in a way they can understand. They have no frame of reference.

 
cstu said:
She has stated that people just didn't job hop from her generation. You were happy to have a job, and loyalty to the company was very important.
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Old people are stupid.
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Different time - unions were prevelant, pensions were important. People still job hopped - just not as common. I made a big job hop after being with the same company for around 15 years and having a lot of success. The new offer was way better. Now I have 2 pensions (though the 2nd one is nominal).

 
1) Keep your skillset/education in demand and the money will follow.

2) Several factors determine job length 1) market 2) industry 3) job type

If you're in the Bay Area, for example, and you're in tech sales...your resume is a lot more complex than say somebody who is a dentist in Wichita.

Doesn't mean it's good or bad, just how it is. There's a decent chance that tech sales guy makes more than the dentist.

One of the biggest mistakes people make is not putting enough time into career pathing. If you don't want to job hop, pick a profession and market where it is not likely to happen.

 
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In the bay area the general rule of thumb for the corporate/business world is rarely should you leave a job in less than two years, unless the opportunity is so tremendous employers would understand why you left.

But that is specific to our tech centric, resource starved, booming market.

 
Just started a new job a couple of weeks ago (documented in a previous thread). It was a big jump in pay (30% over what I was making, 15% over what my previous employer offered me to stay) for what was basically a lateral move. It also turned out that my previous employer announced they were being acquired the day after I left.

The new job is frustrating so far. Its the same exact type of work I'd been doing, but the systems and workflows are all different. I've also gone from being the most experienced member of my old team (and a resource for everyone else) to being a totally useless noob. The new team also offers pretty much nothing from a social perspective. (most my colleagues are women in their 40's and 50's)

Its a good company, and I'm sure I'll eventually catch up and start contributing (starting to do some actual work next week hopefully) but there have been many times (during the endless webinars and training videos) that I've sort of regretted the move and missed my old colleagues. Hopefully some of that will go away once I get a paycheck and my signing bonus, but the whole "money isn't everything" mantra has definitely crept in a few times.

That being said, its really lame how companies let good employees walk over things like pay-bands. When I left the old gig, my boss basically told me that he couldn't offer me any more than he did because it would screw up the pay structure in comparison to the rest of the group. That's bologna IMO. If I'm the best person and I'm doing good work, I should be paid what the market offers. Just because everyone else is happy with their 2.8% raise every year doesn't mean you should have to totally ignore what the market is willing to pay someone with my skill set and potential.

 
I'd still be at my old company if they weren't getting bought and sold and froze our pay. :shrug:

I was avg 10% my first 3 years

 
Very common for healthcare professionals to switch jobs every 2 years. The reason are the large sign on bonuses. I have heard of 40k for a 2 year commitment. Dallas is offering 50K bonus atm, for a 3 year commitment, plus relocation allowances. So it doesn't make any sense to stay stagnant in a job.

 
When my business imploded in spring of 13 I got a job that barely paid the bills.

June of 14 I got a job that was 3x the first job.

Last week I started a job that is 1.5x the job I started about a year ago.

And the next company that offers me a big increase will have my attention. There is a lot more to life than money but most of those things are made possible more easily with money.

 
It sure as heck does not seem like the job market for RNs in northern Ohio is line with big sign on bonuses or big pay raises for job hopping.

If anything, there seems like a surplus of nurses.

Maybe for some specialty units. Maybe.

It has been a big shift though. In 2004 I was paid a 10 grand bonus while I was in school to agree to work for my company for two years. Then when I graduated I was basically guaranteed a job.

Before that, I had transferred schools like a month before the school year started, and I got in no problem. Transferring to that same school right now would result in sitting on a waiting list for 2-3 years. The same companies have not been giving sign on bonuses for new grads for several years now.

 
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Must be the Ohio Market? Sorry to hear that.

ghostguy123 said:
It sure as heck does not seem like the job market for RNs in northern Ohio is line with big sign on bonuses or big pay raises for job hopping.

If anything, there seems like a surplus of nurses.

Maybe for some specialty units. Maybe.

It has been a big shift though. In 2004 I was paid a 10 grand bonus while I was in school to agree to work for my company for two years. Then when I graduated I was basically guaranteed a job.

Before that, I had transferred schools like a month before the school year started, and I got in no problem. Transferring to that same school right now would result in sitting on a waiting list for 2-3 years. The same companies have not been giving sign on bonuses for new grads for several years now.
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Must be an Ohio thing? I have friends that only travel 6 months out of the year and make more than they did working full time year round. They work 2 months on, and 2 months off. Travel the country, get paid well, and are compensated for housing. I can't do the traveling thing due to the kids being in school, but we have enough hospitals around me that the temptation of easy money is always there.

 
I have spent my career in software, mostly DoD software. In my experience, moving jobs was instrumental in increasing compensation.

I have received raises of 30% or more multiple times when changing jobs, and, at one point, I increased my compensation by 81% in less than 7 months by jumping twice (second time unexpectedly due to opportunity I couldn't pass up).

There have also been multiple times when I took pay cuts when it served my goals (switching industries, relocating across country, etc.), and those have worked out so far. In one case, I took a 13% cut but within 4 years I was making 50% more than my previous peak.

I have also gone to my boss a couple of times to state that I was considering moving for better compensation. Once it got me a minimal raise, and I ultimately left for a big raise. Once it got me a substantial raise, and I stayed on for multiple years.

Bottom line, I agree that moving is important in many industries if you want to advance your compensation. As for loyalty, I've worked for multiple startups and multiple large companies, in multiple industries. It's a two way street, and, like most things, it starts from the top. If the company culture is one of loyalty, i.e., the company is loyal and good to its employees, the employees will typically pay that back. If the company culture is not one of loyalty, which is more typical in my experience, then there is no reason to expect any loyalty back from the employees.

 
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SHIZNITTTT said:
Must be the Ohio Market? Sorry to hear that.

ghostguy123 said:
It sure as heck does not seem like the job market for RNs in northern Ohio is line with big sign on bonuses or big pay raises for job hopping.

If anything, there seems like a surplus of nurses.

Maybe for some specialty units. Maybe.

It has been a big shift though. In 2004 I was paid a 10 grand bonus while I was in school to agree to work for my company for two years. Then when I graduated I was basically guaranteed a job.

Before that, I had transferred schools like a month before the school year started, and I got in no problem. Transferring to that same school right now would result in sitting on a waiting list for 2-3 years. The same companies have not been giving sign on bonuses for new grads for several years now.
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Must be an Ohio thing? I have friends that only travel 6 months out of the year and make more than they did working full time year round. They work 2 months on, and 2 months off. Travel the country, get paid well, and are compensated for housing. I can't do the traveling thing due to the kids being in school, but we have enough hospitals around me that the temptation of easy money is always there.
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Well yeah, there is always money to be made with agency and/or travel nursing.

Stupid family and friends keeping me from making millions.

 
I work for a small company and its tough to keep programmers. They are hounded by recruiters calling them every day, trying to catch them on a bad day. Their requested salaries are silly out of control (good for them...except we can't hire them due to salary demands).

I work in research and analytics. I've been at the same company for 10 years and we are very niche. Likely couldn't reach my salary elsewhere at this time.

 
The downsides I find to job hopping are:

1) Most places I've worked at increase vacation days the longer you've been there so you're starting at the bottom rung again

2) At least in the software development field, you have to learn the business all over again

3) You also need to learn the peculiarities of the technical architecture

4) You also need to learn what you can and can't get away with; for instance I know that my hours are 9-5:30 officially but I've learned that there's a lot of flexibility b/c they're really loose on their enforcement and that they don't monitor IM or I would've been fired already and that my one work from home day a week is for the most part a day off provided I keep checking email and IM.

I also find that for me at least, if you're already at the high end for your salary in your area and your current company is giving you a 3-5% raise each year, there's not too much of a pay jump to be had by hopping.

 
I've worked in Healthcare for 8 years. Had 5 different fulltime jobs and a bunch of prn stuff. It's normal. Only way to get much of a raise in the medical field is to change jobs.

 
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I've been at the same company for 17 years and make 5x what I did when I started. Looking for another 25% in the next two years or I'm out the door.

Every situation is different. Most important thing is knowing your value.

 
Harris said:
What, to you, is an acceptable raise percentage per year to keep you at a company? 5%? 10%?
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At this stage of my career, I'd be fine with 3-4%. Right now we're getting 1% and our bonuses, which are almost nil now, have been cut every year. But hey, I haven't been on any layoff lists and the company's bottom line has never been better.

I've been here 15 years (2 stints) and looking to leave again (7yrs this time around).

 
Harris said:
What, to you, is an acceptable raise percentage per year to keep you at a company? 5%? 10%?
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My first job really took care of me.

My first 5 years I was promoted and had something like 30% pay increase over that time. Things leveled off and was around 4% every year. Then we started to get bought and sold like a cheap stock.

Raises went away, my manager did take care of us in terms of time off, wfh, hours etc.

After about 3 years of people jumping ship I finally had enough. My company countered but I left for a 24% raise.

Now I get around 3 to 4% every year which is ok by me. I'm established with good pay and don't have to watch over my shoulder. I work 80 hours every 2 weeks, no ot it's good.

I forgot I did switch jobs 3 years ago but I jumped from one contract company to another. I'm doing the same work on the same system it's just better company.

 
Harris said:
What, to you, is an acceptable raise percentage per year to keep you at a company? 5%? 10%?
Click to expand...
I think this really depends on the role, the job market, my financial situation, etc. Its not just cut and dry. I was in a place for 8 years that just gave the 3% minimum, but i stayed because i liked the job. However, after 8 years i realized i was severely underpaid as a result. Since moving, i have received 30% raises every year in addition stock options, promotions and new responsibilities. This was timely actually because recruiters were swarming and while i love my job it was making it tough to not take an interview. But that was enough to keep me there. Really, as long as im learning new skills, getting good experience, and like the role, pay me fairly and i will likely stay. But letting your salary level off can sometimes be a detriment.

For people that are young, with no kids, i think they should take more risk and try to get more experience and bump their salary as early as possible.

 
TenTimes said:
I heard on the radio that it's down to about the 2 year mark that people are hopping now. Personally I'm glad I stayed the 3rd year (against the wishes of my wife), that's when I caught my break.
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I've heard the same thing - depending upon industry/occupation, the general time frame is 2-4 years. I've had 8 jobs since graduating college in 1998. In 2012 I decided to move to a contractor role in IT. Since then I've been more than happy with switching jobs. For me it was all about the project I was working on and what was coming next. The freedom, flexibility is nice to have. However, I still keep my eye open for a solid FT role that will offer the same project based work that I get contracting.

 
bentley said:
I've been at the same company for 17 years and make 5x what I did when I started. Looking for another 25% in the next two years or I'm out the door.

Every situation is different. Most important thing is knowing your value.
Click to expand...
True.

I have been at my current company for 10 years (had over 10 years experience before that). My average total compensation is about 75% higher now than when I started, an average compensation increase of a little under 6%.

In my field (actuarial science), some search firms provide excellent salary surveys, so I always know where I stand vs the market. If my salary starts lagging behind, I will look for a new job.

It's critical to know how your salary stacks up with the market. Never let your salary fall a significant amount below market. When I was interviewing candidates at a previous job, if their salary was significantly below market, my first reaction is "what's wrong with this person?"

Job hopping is new norm. It's generally true that an average person will change jobs 6-8 times in a career. I am 45, and I have had 4 jobs so far. As long as you don't overdo it......Every 3-4 years is ideal, unless you're progressing nicely up the ladder.

 
I jumped a lot in my 20s, working for four companies about 2 years each.

My last company was great, I was there 12 years. I got to travel all over the world, got promoted several times and had great colleagues. But my boss was a moron, he had been with the company 30 years and got his job by default 5 years ago when the previous guy left.

Me and another guy (who got transferred in April) were the glue holding the place together and delivering the results for his division.

Since I knew my boss' boss, I went out on a limb and told him my boss was incompetent. He told me there was nothing he could do...the division was delivering results. After 8 months, I told the HR Director the same thing. They promised to look into it.

Then our largest competitor came calling and offered me my boss' job with them, and a 30% pay raise.

It has only been three weeks since I left and two other good people have immediately quit, seeing the writing on the wall with the real contributors gone. It is too bad companies need to see things deteriorate before making changes at upper management.

 
Here's an anecdotal microcosm:

I was at my first job for like 2.75 years. Loved that job and there were some definite perks like great training, ability to take on big cases and do lots of trials, great coworkers,reasonable hours and good vacation time, but I was getting informal offers to

make more money in an area I wanted to live. When one if those offers came to fruition and made me an offer to make like 15k and live in a

cool area I was torn. I really didn't want to live that job quite yet so I came up with the plan to go in, lay may offer out, then ask to be bumped up to the next pay scale which we were really supposed to get at two years anyway (gb bureaucratic nonsense). Went into my boss and

laid out for him. He calmly told me the current policy was that all raises were on a freeze per the deputy county commissioner. He then tried to talk me into staying but admitted that there were no raises in sight. So I left.

Fast forward about a month. I've left and am already settling into my new job. I get a call from the deputy commissioner himself who proceeds to tell me a lawyer who was at two pay scales above me when I was there had left and offered me the position. I immediately asked why my former coworkers who remained loyal (and were just as good if not better attorneys) hadn't been offered raises. He laughed and said that he can't

justify raises but he can justify filling a position. Disgusted, I turned him down.

Of course, my three coworkers that I started with, who stayed more loyal than I did were never given raised and all eventually left and are doing great things. All four of us probably would have stayed for some small raises every couple of years.

 
16 years this month. Despite SacramentoBob's feeling on it, I think for me, loyalty matters. I could have easily left, but when it come right down to it, I started here 16 yeras ago with zero experience and no degree. Everything I know, they taught me or sent me to classes to learn. I dont have a reason to look for another job.

 
Been at this company since 2012. It is a bad time for me to make a move (wife is pregnant) but unless something major happens with my position/income, I will be actively looking to leave after coming back from my time off once we have our kid in Dec.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
16 years this month. Despite SacramentoBob's feeling on it, I think for me, loyalty matters. I could have easily left, but when it come right down to it, I started here 16 yeras ago with zero experience and no degree. Everything I know, they taught me or sent me to classes to learn. I dont have a reason to look for another job.
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Just curious though. If you were to get let go today, do you feel confident in getting another position of equal or greater pay? Also what type of work do you do?

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Cjw_55106 said:
16 years this month. Despite SacramentoBob's feeling on it, I think for me, loyalty matters. I could have easily left, but when it come right down to it, I started here 16 yeras ago with zero experience and no degree. Everything I know, they taught me or sent me to classes to learn. I dont have a reason to look for another job.
Click to expand...
Just curious though. If you were to get let go today, do you feel confident in getting another position of equal or greater pay? Also what type of work do you do?
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I work in IT. Although I dont have a degree, I could probably get a higher paying job if I was fired, based on my experience.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
PinkydaPimp said:
Cjw_55106 said:
16 years this month. Despite SacramentoBob's feeling on it, I think for me, loyalty matters. I could have easily left, but when it come right down to it, I started here 16 yeras ago with zero experience and no degree. Everything I know, they taught me or sent me to classes to learn. I dont have a reason to look for another job.
Click to expand...
Just curious though. If you were to get let go today, do you feel confident in getting another position of equal or greater pay? Also what type of work do you do?
Click to expand...
I work in IT. Although I dont have a degree, I could probably get a higher paying job if I was fired, based on my experience.
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Scarily, i see this happen and in many cases people end up having alot of trouble finding work after being one place for so long. Have you thought about at least floating your resume to jobs just to see your current worth or interest?

 
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