John Clayton says No Deal between Pats & Moss (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

It's funny hearing the Patriots homers claim that they're willing to let Moss go, since he stunk in the playoffs and the team didn't win the Super Bowl. Meanwhile, Deion Branch was overrated and they were happy to let him go, since he stunk in the regular season.

Funny how people think theyve got Patriots fans all figured out. Or even find it funny for that matter. Noone ever thought Branch stunk. The guy never had a 1000 yard season, and got dinged all the time. And he's been nothing but dinged and worthless since he left. Now, fans arent dancing about having to committ $12 or so million to a WR in his 30s. We're a funny group, arent we?

It's been awhile since I've heard that famous "he never had a 1000 yard season" line. I don't think it's out of line to suggest that if the Pats never traded Branch, they win the SB in '06.

I've debated this with other real people (as opposed to cyperspace people) at length.IMO, NE was one first down away from playing CHI in the SB when they fell short against IND. They lost that game because they couldn't run the ball when they needed to. I don't see how Branch would have made an impact in that game . . . when they blew a 22 point lead (or whatever the lead was).

I dunno... I bet Branch doesn't drop that uncovered at the 5 pass that Reche "hands" Caldwell did, scoring that TD instead of having to kick the FG. After that... who knows. Of course, given what Branch was looking for moneywise, not overpaying him and getting a 1st rounder for him was OK, even if the timing of it all kinda sucked.

Obviously we can't cherry pick individual plays and use that as a sole basis for whole that game and the entire season played out. For example, who knows if Branch would have been as open as Caldwell was or if other plays would have never even had they play go off as it did.I still think the reason the Pats did not win in 2006 was they had no running game in the post season. Their passing totals in the post season were fine.The Pats had 276 passing yards and 51 rushing yards (2.4 ypc)against the Chargers. And they had 319 passing yards and 93 rushing yards (3.9 ypc) against IND. But they could not run when they needed to.

 

[Pat Patriot]

It's funny hearing the Patriots homers claim that they're willing to let Moss go, since he stunk in the playoffs and the team didn't win the Super Bowl. Meanwhile, Deion Branch was overrated and they were happy to let him go, since he stunk in the regular season.

Funny how people think theyve got Patriots fans all figured out. Or even find it funny for that matter. Noone ever thought Branch stunk. The guy never had a 1000 yard season, and got dinged all the time. And he's been nothing but dinged and worthless since he left. Now, fans arent dancing about having to committ $12 or so million to a WR in his 30s. We're a funny group, arent we?

It's been awhile since I've heard that famous "he never had a 1000 yard season" line. I don't think it's out of line to suggest that if the Pats never traded Branch, they win the SB in '06.

I've debated this with other real people (as opposed to cyperspace people) at length.IMO, NE was one first down away from playing CHI in the SB when they fell short against IND. They lost that game because they couldn't run the ball when they needed to. I don't see how Branch would have made an impact in that game . . . when they blew a 22 point lead (or whatever the lead was).

I dunno... I bet Branch doesn't drop that uncovered at the 5 pass that Reche "hands" Caldwell did, scoring that TD instead of having to kick the FG. After that... who knows. Of course, given what Branch was looking for moneywise, not overpaying him and getting a 1st rounder for him was OK, even if the timing of it all kinda sucked.

Tough to relive history there. I think most if not all Pats fans will agree that Branch is a better receiver than Caldwell. However, on that play, Caldwell was uncovered pre snap. It was Brady that didnt notice he was all alone. It was Caldwell that eventually dropped the pass but I cant imagine the anxiety he felt sitting out there knowing he was completely uncovered but the QB couldnt see him. It doesnt excuse dropping the ball but by the time Brady spotted him, he would not have scored although would have likely been inside the 10.I have watched that game, via a taping of NFL Replay, literally 20-30 times. There are so many plays that could have altered the course of that game I feel it is unfair to put it solely on Caldwell.

 

[Pat Patriot]

It's funny hearing the Patriots homers claim that they're willing to let Moss go, since he stunk in the playoffs and the team didn't win the Super Bowl. Meanwhile, Deion Branch was overrated and they were happy to let him go, since he stunk in the regular season.

Funny how people think theyve got Patriots fans all figured out. Or even find it funny for that matter. Noone ever thought Branch stunk. The guy never had a 1000 yard season, and got dinged all the time. And he's been nothing but dinged and worthless since he left. Now, fans arent dancing about having to committ $12 or so million to a WR in his 30s. We're a funny group, arent we?

It's been awhile since I've heard that famous "he never had a 1000 yard season" line. I don't think it's out of line to suggest that if the Pats never traded Branch, they win the SB in '06.

I've debated this with other real people (as opposed to cyperspace people) at length.IMO, NE was one first down away from playing CHI in the SB when they fell short against IND. They lost that game because they couldn't run the ball when they needed to. I don't see how Branch would have made an impact in that game . . . when they blew a 22 point lead (or whatever the lead was).

I dunno... I bet Branch doesn't drop that uncovered at the 5 pass that Reche "hands" Caldwell did, scoring that TD instead of having to kick the FG. After that... who knows. Of course, given what Branch was looking for moneywise, not overpaying him and getting a 1st rounder for him was OK, even if the timing of it all kinda sucked.

Obviously we can't cherry pick individual plays and use that as a sole basis for whole that game and the entire season played out. For example, who knows if Branch would have been as open as Caldwell was or if other plays would have never even had they play go off as it did.I still think the reason the Pats did not win in 2006 was they had no running game in the post season. Their passing totals in the post season were fine.The Pats had 276 passing yards and 51 rushing yards (2.4 ypc)against the Chargers. And they had 319 passing yards and 93 rushing yards (3.9 ypc) against IND. But they could not run when they needed to.

But didnt they actually abandon the running game because they had no healthy RB's in the 2nd half? Then in the "drive" to put the game away, they got a 5 yard too many men in the huddle penalty to start the drive eliminating the running game option. They passed twice to get to 3rd and 4. If they had a healthy back they could have run on 3rd down with the intention of going for it if they got within a yard.

 

[Boston]

Shefter is speculating that Moss and Green Bay could be a match:

Moss willing to listen to offers; Favre nearing decision on future

By Adam Schefter | NFL Network

Free-agent deals continue rolling in, but it's two deals that haven't been completed that are creating the most intrigue.

Two days into the free-agent signing period, the New England Patriots have yet to re-sign wide receiver Randy Moss and the Green Bay Packers still have not heard from quarterback Brett Favre regarding his decision about whether to return or retire.

Randy Moss, WR

Free Agent

2007 statistics:

REC: 98

YDS: 1,493

AVG: 15.2

TD: 23

Now, the two storylines could connect the way Moss and Favre have hoped to in past offseasons.

Those who know Moss say he is inching closer to the point of frustration at the lack of progress he has made for a new deal with the Patriots. The longer the Patriots wait to sign him, the more they invite other teams to begin recruiting Moss.

Moss is, at the very least, now willing to take free-agent visits and listen to other offers, according to sources. The contract the Patriots have proposed is not enough for Moss to sign now. The record-setting wide receiver believes he gave New England a discount last year and is unwilling to do the same this year.

This is where it gets interesting.

Favre openly campaigned for the Packers to sign Moss last offseason. When they didn't, he spoke out against the organization.

With Favre nearing a decision on his future –- some believe he will inform Green Bay of his plans as early as this week -– the Packers could make the decision for him. If they signed Moss now, those who know Favre believe it would be a dead-lock cinch for the Packers quarterback to play another season.

As it is, some people believe Favre now is prepared to walk away from the game.

But if Favre is willing to walk away from Green Bay, and Moss is willing to walk away from New England, then this could alter the dynamics of two of the biggest storylines of Free Agency 2008.

Maybe Favre and Moss could wind up walking into the 2008 season together.

 

[scott72]

Shefter is speculating that Moss and Green Bay could be a match:Moss willing to listen to offers; Favre nearing decision on future By Adam Schefter | NFL Network Free-agent deals continue rolling in, but it's two deals that haven't been completed that are creating the most intrigue.Two days into the free-agent signing period, the New England Patriots have yet to re-sign wide receiver Randy Moss and the Green Bay Packers still have not heard from quarterback Brett Favre regarding his decision about whether to return or retire. Randy Moss, WR Free Agent2007 statistics: REC: 98YDS: 1,493AVG: 15.2TD: 23Now, the two storylines could connect the way Moss and Favre have hoped to in past offseasons.Those who know Moss say he is inching closer to the point of frustration at the lack of progress he has made for a new deal with the Patriots. The longer the Patriots wait to sign him, the more they invite other teams to begin recruiting Moss.Moss is, at the very least, now willing to take free-agent visits and listen to other offers, according to sources. The contract the Patriots have proposed is not enough for Moss to sign now. The record-setting wide receiver believes he gave New England a discount last year and is unwilling to do the same this year.This is where it gets interesting.Favre openly campaigned for the Packers to sign Moss last offseason. When they didn't, he spoke out against the organization.With Favre nearing a decision on his future –- some believe he will inform Green Bay of his plans as early as this week -– the Packers could make the decision for him. If they signed Moss now, those who know Favre believe it would be a dead-lock cinch for the Packers quarterback to play another season.As it is, some people believe Favre now is prepared to walk away from the game.But if Favre is willing to walk away from Green Bay, and Moss is willing to walk away from New England, then this could alter the dynamics of two of the biggest storylines of Free Agency 2008.Maybe Favre and Moss could wind up walking into the 2008 season together.

I'd say less than 10% chance of this happening. Our WR's are set. We have other holes to fill and breaking the bank for Moss wouldn't make any sense right now. I just don't see Thompson backing up the Brinks truck to bring Moss in when the money can be used in other areas to improve potential weaknesses.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Shefter is speculating that Moss and Green Bay could be a match:Moss willing to listen to offers; Favre nearing decision on future By Adam Schefter | NFL Network Free-agent deals continue rolling in, but it's two deals that haven't been completed that are creating the most intrigue.Two days into the free-agent signing period, the New England Patriots have yet to re-sign wide receiver Randy Moss and the Green Bay Packers still have not heard from quarterback Brett Favre regarding his decision about whether to return or retire. Randy Moss, WR Free Agent2007 statistics: REC: 98YDS: 1,493AVG: 15.2TD: 23Now, the two storylines could connect the way Moss and Favre have hoped to in past offseasons.Those who know Moss say he is inching closer to the point of frustration at the lack of progress he has made for a new deal with the Patriots. The longer the Patriots wait to sign him, the more they invite other teams to begin recruiting Moss.Moss is, at the very least, now willing to take free-agent visits and listen to other offers, according to sources. The contract the Patriots have proposed is not enough for Moss to sign now. The record-setting wide receiver believes he gave New England a discount last year and is unwilling to do the same this year.This is where it gets interesting.Favre openly campaigned for the Packers to sign Moss last offseason. When they didn't, he spoke out against the organization.With Favre nearing a decision on his future –- some believe he will inform Green Bay of his plans as early as this week -– the Packers could make the decision for him. If they signed Moss now, those who know Favre believe it would be a dead-lock cinch for the Packers quarterback to play another season.As it is, some people believe Favre now is prepared to walk away from the game.But if Favre is willing to walk away from Green Bay, and Moss is willing to walk away from New England, then this could alter the dynamics of two of the biggest storylines of Free Agency 2008.Maybe Favre and Moss could wind up walking into the 2008 season together.

I'd say less than 10% chance of this happening. Our WR's are set. We have other holes to fill and breaking the bank for Moss wouldn't make any sense right now. I just don't see Thompson backing up the Brinks truck to bring Moss in when the money can be used in other areas to improve potential weaknesses.

The media is frustrated with the lack of information about Moss at this point and is just making stuff up now.

 

[Boston]

Shefter is speculating that Moss and Green Bay could be a match:Moss willing to listen to offers; Favre nearing decision on future By Adam Schefter | NFL Network Free-agent deals continue rolling in, but it's two deals that haven't been completed that are creating the most intrigue.Two days into the free-agent signing period, the New England Patriots have yet to re-sign wide receiver Randy Moss and the Green Bay Packers still have not heard from quarterback Brett Favre regarding his decision about whether to return or retire. Randy Moss, WR Free Agent2007 statistics: REC: 98YDS: 1,493AVG: 15.2TD: 23Now, the two storylines could connect the way Moss and Favre have hoped to in past offseasons.Those who know Moss say he is inching closer to the point of frustration at the lack of progress he has made for a new deal with the Patriots. The longer the Patriots wait to sign him, the more they invite other teams to begin recruiting Moss.Moss is, at the very least, now willing to take free-agent visits and listen to other offers, according to sources. The contract the Patriots have proposed is not enough for Moss to sign now. The record-setting wide receiver believes he gave New England a discount last year and is unwilling to do the same this year.This is where it gets interesting.Favre openly campaigned for the Packers to sign Moss last offseason. When they didn't, he spoke out against the organization.With Favre nearing a decision on his future –- some believe he will inform Green Bay of his plans as early as this week -– the Packers could make the decision for him. If they signed Moss now, those who know Favre believe it would be a dead-lock cinch for the Packers quarterback to play another season.As it is, some people believe Favre now is prepared to walk away from the game.But if Favre is willing to walk away from Green Bay, and Moss is willing to walk away from New England, then this could alter the dynamics of two of the biggest storylines of Free Agency 2008.Maybe Favre and Moss could wind up walking into the 2008 season together.

I'd say less than 10% chance of this happening. Our WR's are set. We have other holes to fill and breaking the bank for Moss wouldn't make any sense right now. I just don't see Thompson backing up the Brinks truck to bring Moss in when the money can be used in other areas to improve potential weaknesses.

On the surface this does make sense. If Moss leaves NE it will be for greener pastures (i.e. I don't see him leaving the Pats and giving a discount to another team). With Jennings/Driver/Jones I'd be surprised if Green Bay gave Moss a huge deal. That being said Favre is very close to the end and maybe the Pack changes their philosophy with the thought that this will be their best shot to win a title before Favre hangs them up. I'd be very surprised if he ends up in Green Bay but the longer this situation goes unresolved the more the rumor mill is going to churn out.

 

[scott72]

Shefter is speculating that Moss and Green Bay could be a match:Moss willing to listen to offers; Favre nearing decision on future By Adam Schefter | NFL Network Free-agent deals continue rolling in, but it's two deals that haven't been completed that are creating the most intrigue.Two days into the free-agent signing period, the New England Patriots have yet to re-sign wide receiver Randy Moss and the Green Bay Packers still have not heard from quarterback Brett Favre regarding his decision about whether to return or retire. Randy Moss, WR Free Agent2007 statistics: REC: 98YDS: 1,493AVG: 15.2TD: 23Now, the two storylines could connect the way Moss and Favre have hoped to in past offseasons.Those who know Moss say he is inching closer to the point of frustration at the lack of progress he has made for a new deal with the Patriots. The longer the Patriots wait to sign him, the more they invite other teams to begin recruiting Moss.Moss is, at the very least, now willing to take free-agent visits and listen to other offers, according to sources. The contract the Patriots have proposed is not enough for Moss to sign now. The record-setting wide receiver believes he gave New England a discount last year and is unwilling to do the same this year.This is where it gets interesting.Favre openly campaigned for the Packers to sign Moss last offseason. When they didn't, he spoke out against the organization.With Favre nearing a decision on his future –- some believe he will inform Green Bay of his plans as early as this week -– the Packers could make the decision for him. If they signed Moss now, those who know Favre believe it would be a dead-lock cinch for the Packers quarterback to play another season.As it is, some people believe Favre now is prepared to walk away from the game.But if Favre is willing to walk away from Green Bay, and Moss is willing to walk away from New England, then this could alter the dynamics of two of the biggest storylines of Free Agency 2008.Maybe Favre and Moss could wind up walking into the 2008 season together.

I'd say less than 10% chance of this happening. Our WR's are set. We have other holes to fill and breaking the bank for Moss wouldn't make any sense right now. I just don't see Thompson backing up the Brinks truck to bring Moss in when the money can be used in other areas to improve potential weaknesses.

The media is frustrated with the lack of information about Moss at this point and is just making stuff up now.

It sure seems that way yes..

 

[trader jake]

The media is frustrated with the lack of information about Moss at this point and is just making stuff up now.

It sure seems that way yes..

Randy Moss to the Raiders!

 

[KellysHeroes]

So... Nothing new today. I bet he jumps on anther offer.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Schefter is saying that the Moss/Patriots contract is nearing completion. He's usually spot on.

Schefter is one of the ones I would cite as having been on board for ages that Moss wasn't going anywhere.

He just backed off of that on Total Access. Said Moss is talking with other teams to determine his value, and now, for the first time, he (Schefter) believes Moss could play elsewhere.

I think its yudkin's turn to admit moss could be leaving.

When is it going to be your turn to admit that the story could actually be changing over time because Moss's intentions are changing over time?

Sure.... He intended to give the pats a break, then he changed his mind. How about its time for some one to admit that there was no deal in place... Ever... And other people, such as myself and many others, were hitting the nail right on head when we said that moss was going to the highest bidder... Even when those with sources would hear it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

My gut feeling says that Moss gets an offer or two way above what NE wants to pay, he gives the Patriots a chance to match it, and they bite the bullet and pay way more than they wanted to, to keep him.

 

[Road Warriors]

Schefter is saying that the Moss/Patriots contract is nearing completion. He's usually spot on.

Schefter is one of the ones I would cite as having been on board for ages that Moss wasn't going anywhere.

He just backed off of that on Total Access. Said Moss is talking with other teams to determine his value, and now, for the first time, he (Schefter) believes Moss could play elsewhere.

I think its yudkin's turn to admit moss could be leaving.

When is it going to be your turn to admit that the story could actually be changing over time because Moss's intentions are changing over time?

Sure.... How about its time for some one to admit that there was no deal in place... Ever... And other people, such as myself and many others, were hitting the nail right on head when we said that moss was going to the highest bidder... Even when those with sources would hear it.

Well, I guess you're right! Feel better?

 

[LBH]

please let him sign with anyone other than the Pats

-anxious jet fan

 

[nerangers]

So do you think Moss is expecting a Berrian deal (6 year /42 Million)

Just think they could have kept Stallworth for 4.5 million a year!

Seriously, do we even know what kind of numbers are being thrown around between Moss and the Pats to know how close the two sides are?

highsight...should have just franchised him. I know it turned out bad last year with Samuel, but at least the fans could be sleeping easy at night!

 

[Gopher State]

So do you think Moss is expecting a Berrian deal (6 year /42 Million)Just think they could have kept Stallworth for 4.5 million a year! Seriously, do we even know what kind of numbers are being thrown around between Moss and the Pats to know how close the two sides are? highsight...should have just franchised him. I know it turned out bad last year with Samuel, but at least the fans could be sleeping easy at night!

After the BB deal 6/42, whats the market for Moss? NE better being going to the bank, because Randy is going to want more then BB got

 

[Road Warriors]

So do you think Moss is expecting a Berrian deal (6 year /42 Million)Just think they could have kept Stallworth for 4.5 million a year! Seriously, do we even know what kind of numbers are being thrown around between Moss and the Pats to know how close the two sides are? highsight...should have just franchised him. I know it turned out bad last year with Samuel, but at least the fans could be sleeping easy at night!

After the BB deal 6/42, whats the market for Moss? NE better being going to the bank, because Randy is going to want more then BB got

More than 6/42? np. 6/60 sounds about right.

 

[Steady Mooobin]

Yea, no kidding. BB didn't do Moss any favors.

 

[sib]

Schefter is saying that the Moss/Patriots contract is nearing completion. He's usually spot on.

Schefter is one of the ones I would cite as having been on board for ages that Moss wasn't going anywhere.

He just backed off of that on Total Access. Said Moss is talking with other teams to determine his value, and now, for the first time, he (Schefter) believes Moss could play elsewhere.

I think its yudkin's turn to admit moss could be leaving.

When is it going to be your turn to admit that the story could actually be changing over time because Moss's intentions are changing over time?

Sure.... He intended to give the pats a break, then he changed his mind. How about its time for some one to admit that there was no deal in place... Ever... And other people, such as myself and many others, were hitting the nail right on head when we said that moss was going to the highest bidder... Even when those with sources would hear it.

 

[trader jake]

So... Nothing new today. I bet he jumps on anther offer.

This didn't go so well for you KellysHeroes.Basically you ran your mouth for a couple of days, berated a respected FBG who has consistently posted solid info from a source much better than most people have access to, and generally came across as "unexcellent" throughout this thread. At some point we all disagree with people on these boards and get in arguments. How you handle yourself during these disagreements says more about you than how often you are correct...and you didn't even get that part right.CliffsNotes version:

 

[Pat Patriot]

Kellys Heroes and John Clayton look equally good right now. Clayton is such an ###. He must feel pretty ridiculous today.