John Wick And Gun Violence - Thoughts On This Article? (1 Viewer)

[Terminalxylem]

No - what is odd is discussing fake movie gun violence.  Which is the point.. everyone comfortable ridiculing the violence they see on the screen, nobody comfortable addressing or actually doing something about the real world.  

I have multiple firearms to cover different purposes - I have a carry license, own a carry gun, don't carry.  I have a shotgun for home defense.  I have a rifle for fun (I don't hunt).  My dad was law enforcement, I use them often.  What he taught me, and what I agree with - Really the only way anyone should own guns imo, you should know how to use them.  Which again goes back to the lunacy of owning dozens, or 100's, or in one case 1000's of guns.  

I meant discussing firearms with friends and neighbors was odd. But I guess it isn’t in your neck of the woods.

If you don’t hunt, what constitutes fun with your guns? Target practice? Sporting clays?

Why don’t you carry a gun?

 

[Terminalxylem]

Well, you had initially stated that it was an odd topic to discuss and a private matter. And what I’m saying is that in many parts of the country it’s neither an odd topic nor a private matter. Whether or not you know your neighbors well enough and for long enough that you’ve had these naturally occurring conversations is another matter entirely. 

Yes, I acknowledged as much already. But one person’s naturally occurring conversation may be another’s odd topic.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Exactly.

I would say it is weird you don't know your neighbors very well.  Never been to their house, you don't know what they are about, what they do, or what they are interested in?  My guy neighbors are usually most interested in the appliances, my tools (grill, lawn, etc) and toys (including guns).

I wouldn't even describe myself as all that outgoing.

I’m cordial to my neighbors, but don’t interact with them often. Privacy is one of the main benefits of home ownership IMO, and I prefer to share my private life with actual friends.

 

[matuski]

I’m cordial to my neighbors, but don’t interact with them often. Privacy is one of the main benefits of home ownership IMO, and I prefer to share my private life with actual friends.

I view neighbors as part of my privacy.

I want to know them.  Not even so much being friendly, but knowing who lives next to me, who i might trust to check on my dog or house if we are out of town.  Whose kids are in trouble at school.  Who I get along with, who not so much.

Bonus if they turn out to be beer drinking, football watching, normal people I can form a friendship with.

 

[matuski]

I know my neighbor on one side is a sheriff (family inheritance).  I know that he is handy.. he helped me put in my water softener and fix sprinklers.  He has a dog that is 100% guard dog... kids steer clear, thank you for barking once every few weeks at whatever gets too close to our property.  Works nights.  One of 3 kids in trouble all the time at school - attitude, pot, etc.  He drinks Coors Light.  Lots of guns.

Other side is younger couple with younger kids.  Know their names, they have us over once a year or so.  They have a guy that keeps their yard in order - I prefer to mow my own yard, but the pruning, design, mulch, etc... I have mooched their yard guy for.  The mom is fairly antisocial, the dad is cool.  He and I are golfing next month.  He has a gun safe and a hidden gun shelf and mirror.  Drinks IPA, vodka/sprite.  Lots of guns.

Indian family across the street.  Don't drink.  Comfortable talking in street, dont seem to have interest in coming over or having people over.  But they love to talk guns, has 14.  Normal but weird.

And so on and so forth.

 

[matuski]

I recently went to Midland on short notice, could not find a hotel.

Surgeon's PA offered to let me sleep on couch.. deal.  He showed me before i went to bed that there was an AK under the sofa cushions,  one under the sofa.  One under the end table.

A shotgun above the fireplace.  2 handguns in a drawer in the coffee table.

Jesus.

 

[matuski]

Same trip to Midland.

Surgeon has a barn/building/whatever...  for his guns.  Claims to not know how many guns he has.  Has a sign up on the barn.  "If you can read this you are in range".  200  acre land, range referring to 50 cal cannon mounted on second floor of barn overlooking property.  Validated by optometrist.

Jesus.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Holy cr@p. Remind me never to go to TX.

 

[matuski]

Holy cr@p. Remind me never to go to TX.

Love it here.

Everyone I described are wonderful people (OK, not a fan of one of the neighbors).  And they have too many guns.

 

[bigbottom]

I do think the gun stockpiling in certain parts of the country is very different than it was 20 or 30 years ago, but that’s admittedly based on wholly anecdotal evidence. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I can definitely see enjoying violent media less the more you encounter violent reality. Our tastes change as we age.

Personally, I think there's a difference between gratuitous violence versus hyper or stylistic violence.

Gratuitous violence to me (when it comes to media like tv/movies/games) typically involves unnecessarily over the top violence perpetrated on the strong versus the weak or blameless. 

Characters like John Wick, The Bride from Kill Bill, and BJ Blaskowicz from the Wolfenstein games don't fall into this category. The people they're killing are the "bad guys" that a) get what they deserve and b) have the opportunity to either walk away or defend themselves in the fight. In this sense, it's cathartic to see our hero visit bad things on bad people.

 

[E Street Brat]

I couldn't stomach seeing the beagle die in the original John Wick.

Spoilers please 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I can definitely see enjoying violent media less the more you encounter violent reality. Our tastes change as we age.

Personally, I think there's a difference between gratuitous violence versus hyper or stylistic violence.

Gratuitous violence to me (when it comes to media like tv/movies/games) typically involves unnecessarily over the top violence perpetrated on the strong versus the weak or blameless. 

Characters like John Wick, The Bride from Kill Bill, and BJ Classics from the Wolfenstein games don't fall into this category. The people they're killing are the "bad guys" that a) get what they deserve and b) have the opportunity to either walk away or defend themselves in the fight. In this sense, it's cathartic to see our hero visit bad things on bad people.

Thanks. I do think it's a fascinating topic and I think the cathartic part is a factor too.

I guess the bigger thing I take from this poll is I think as long as most people seem to think like they do, we're never changing guns in this country. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Thanks. I do think it's a fascinating topic and I think the cathartic part is a factor too.

I guess the bigger thing I take from this poll is I think as long as most people seem to think like they do, we're never changing guns in this country. 

I don't understand your conclusion.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't understand your conclusion.

That as long as the public glorifies gun violence as entertainment, guns aren't changing in this country. 

Also fully admit I'm in the minority with this. Shocker shocker there. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

That as long as the public glorifies gun violence as entertainment, guns aren't changing in this country. 

Also fully admit I'm in the minority with this. Shocker shocker there. 

I'm sorry, but I don't see how you jump to the conclusion that because people enjoy violent fantasy that they're not interested in reducing violent reality.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how you jump to the conclusion that because people enjoy violent fantasy that they're not interested in reducing violent reality.

I think that's the thing. I don't see it as a jump at all. 

Clearly, you're in the majority here though. I just find it fascinating and super discouraging. 

 

[tjnc09]

That as long as the public glorifies gun violence as entertainment, guns aren't changing in this country. 

Also fully admit I'm in the minority with this. Shocker shocker there. 

Except the homicide rate in America has been decreasing for the last three decades.  The chance you die from gun violence is the lowest it has been in 50 years.  Movies (and video games) have certainly become more violent in that time frame so to correlate that with real life violence seems like a really big stretch.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Love it here.

Everyone I described are wonderful people (OK, not a fan of one of the neighbors).  And they have too many guns.

I’m sure they are, but having so many guns around just increases the chances they’ll eventually be misused.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Except the homicide rate in America has been decreasing for the last three decades.  The chance you die from gun violence is the lowest it has been in 50 years.  Movies (and video games) have certainly become more violent in that time frame so to correlate that with real life violence seems like a really big stretch.

Homicide is decreasing just about everywhere in the developed world. What about all gun related deaths? 

I don’t think there is a direct link between violent media and run-of-the-mill gun murders, but our glorification of firearms probably contributes to mass shootings, and gun availability makes gun suicides far more likely.

 

[bigbottom]

That as long as the public glorifies gun violence as entertainment, guns aren't changing in this country. 

Also fully admit I'm in the minority with this. Shocker shocker there. 

When you say "guns aren't changing in this country," to what are you referring?  Are you referring to gun violence?  Gun laws?  Something else?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Perhaps it is cathartic for the majority and so overall reduces gun violence while at the same time desensitizing and triggering infirm minds, thereby contributing to catastrophic misuses.  The one would not necessarily be exclusive of the other.  Both can be true.

 

[tjnc09]

Homicide is decreasing just about everywhere in the developed world. What about all gun related deaths? 

I don’t think there is a direct link between violent media and run-of-the-mill gun murders, but our glorification of firearms probably contributes to mass shootings, and gun availability makes gun suicides far more likely.

Suicide is a problem related to mental health, not the thing that someone uses to end their life.  

Mass shootings are only a small fraction of homicides in this country.  Fear sells in the media.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

When you say "guns aren't changing in this country," to what are you referring?  Are you referring to gun violence?  Gun laws?  Something else?

I think both. 

And I have to be honest, this isn't a well reasoned or especially thoughtful take on my part. Just how I'm feeling. 

 

[Gr00vus]

Right.

Silencers are cool.  Maybe practical.  To an extent.

Guns are cool and practical. To an extent.

Then suddenly I am looking at a neighbors gun vault with 16 guns, 4 silencers, night vision goggles and scopes, and a pile of ammo taller than me. One of my surgeons in Midland has a separate building to house his armament.  I don't know where the line is.. but somewhere it is crossed, and on a regular basis.

I think the bolded is nearer the crux of the issue. I disagree that guns are cool. I think that kind of approach is a problem in our society. I don't mean to pick on you individually either (and give you credit for the "to an extent" qualification), just went with this because you captured this sentiment pretty succinctly.

I think we need to challenge the notion that guns are "cool." Part of that is considering whether movies/media like this contribute to that perception. I don't know if they're the cause, but I don't think they help much.

 

[matuski]

I think the bolded is nearer the crux of the issue. I disagree that guns are cool. I think that kind of approach is a problem in our society. I don't mean to pick on you individually either (and give you credit for the "to an extent" qualification), just went with this because you captured this sentiment pretty succinctly.

I think we need to challenge the notion that guns are "cool." Part of that is considering whether movies/media like this contribute to that perception. I don't know if they're the cause, but I don't think they help much.

Shooting guns is definitely cool.  Guns are definitely very cool contraptions.  Pick on me all you want for that.

They are cool as long as you can handle them expertly, and manage them properly and safely.  Which is where I take issue with so many people have so many guns.. I doubt they are expert with all of them, and the more guns you have the harder it is to manage them properly and safely.

 

[Gr00vus]

Shooting guns is definitely cool.  Guns are definitely very cool contraptions. 

What about those things is cool?

 

[matuski]

What about those things is cool?

You pull a trigger and an explosion happens firing a projectile.

Awesome.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

What about those things is cool?

The ability to touch things beyond our reach, to extend our will beyond our grasp, to amplify our physical presence in a world that can be hostile.  Oh, and they go boom!

 

[Terminalxylem]

Suicide is a problem related to mental health, not the thing that someone uses to end their life.  

Mass shootings are only a small fraction of homicides in this country.  Fear sells in the media.  

Suicidal ideation is a mental health issue. But guns make completion of the act far more likely. There's plenty of data which show this.

Agree that mass shootings are statistically inconsequential. That being said, we have far more than other developed countries, and I believe our society's fascination with violence promotes them.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Perhaps it is cathartic for the majority and so overall reduces gun violence while at the same time desensitizing and triggering infirm minds, thereby contributing to catastrophic misuses.  The one would not necessarily be exclusive of the other.  Both can be true.

What evidence do you have that any catharsis is needed to prevent gun violence?

 

[Jayrod]

I live in Southwest Missouri.  It isn't too different from Texas in regards to guns.

Lots of large stockpiles of guns and ammo.  Maybe not quite as frequent, but I know a dozen heavy collectors.

All I have is a crossbow for deer season, zero guns.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

What evidence do you have that any catharsis is needed to prevent gun violence?

None.  I was responding to a theory posited by another poster.  That I was not affirmatively stating such could be ascertained by my prefacing the comment with the word "perhaps"

 

[bigbottom]

What about those things is cool?

I don't own guns (well, except for an old handgun that my wife inherited from her father when he passed that I'm not sure even works and we don't have ammo for).  I'm not opposed to gun ownership as a general matter; I've just never been inclined to purchase a gun or go through the training necessary to be a responsible gun owner.  That said, I went to an indoor shooting range with a bunch of buddies last year and fired a whole bunch of weapons, including a 50 cal.  I'm not sure whether "cool" is the right word, but it was definitely an exhilarating experience.  Didn't lead me to buy a gun though.

 

[Gr00vus]

I don't own guns (well, except for an old handgun that my wife inherited from her father when he passed that I'm not sure even works and we don't have ammo for).  I'm not opposed to gun ownership as a general matter; I've just never been inclined to purchase a gun or go through the training necessary to be a responsible gun owner.  That said, I went to an indoor shooting range with a bunch of buddies last year and fired a whole bunch of weapons, including a 50 cal.  I'm not sure whether "cool" is the right word, but it was definitely an exhilarating experience.  Didn't lead me to buy a gun though.

I've had a similar experience, and like you "cool" wasn't the word I'd use to describe it. Exhilarating is a good one, the sense of projection of power (as @Ditkaless Wonders described above) was another, but I also recognized that that same projection of power that was exhilarating for me when I'm the one wielding the gun is a scary proposition when its somebody else holding it. I don't find either of those things cool.

 

[Terminalxylem]

None.  I was responding to a theory posited by another poster.  That I was not affirmatively stating such could be ascertained by my prefacing the comment with the word "perhaps"

Usually people make statements with plausibility in mind. I'm trying to understand why you believe yours was plausible.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Usually people make statements with plausibility in mind. I'm trying to understand why you believe yours was plausible.

I would say then that it is plausible because the concept of catharsis itself is plausible, somewhat demonstrable, and common to our personal experience. 

As for what people usually do one the one hand I what I usually do, well they are often divergent.   I was noting something about the direction of an argument, not then taking a position.  If you are around much you will notice that the process is as interesting to me as the substance.

 

[Kanil]

My thoughts are the author of this article is reaching and trying to find an issue with JW to stand out and seek attention.

 

[[icon]]

I view "gun-kata" as cinematic art.

Bingo. 

Ever watch classic martial arts films? Same thing just with fists and feet. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I view "gun-kata" as cinematic art.

I totally can see your point. That's exactly the author's point. 

Do you think we'd feel the same way about loving Kung Fu movies if it was a regular occurrence where a guy went into a school and killed kids with Kung Fu?

 

[TheFanatic]

I don't own guns (well, except for an old handgun that my wife inherited from her father when he passed that I'm not sure even works and we don't have ammo for).  I'm not opposed to gun ownership as a general matter; I've just never been inclined to purchase a gun or go through the training necessary to be a responsible gun owner.  That said, I went to an indoor shooting range with a bunch of buddies last year and fired a whole bunch of weapons, including a 50 cal.  I'm not sure whether "cool" is the right word, but it was definitely an exhilarating experience.  Didn't lead me to buy a gun though.

This. I call it man massage. When I leave the range, I feel the same way as I do after getting a full body massage, of which I've had exactly 2. It's like a huge stress relief session. I wish I could get to the range more often. 

 

[[icon]]

I totally can see your point. That's exactly the author's point. 

Do you think we'd feel the same way about loving Kung Fu movies if it was a regular occurrence where a guy went into a school and killed kids with Kung Fu?

Thousands more people annually by driving impaired  and other alcohol related abuse/crime, it is regularly depicted in cinema and you chose this hyperbolic soapbox to preach from? 

What percentage of rounds fired “strike children in schoolyards?”

You don’t like guns... we get it. How the hell did you not figure out you wouldn’t like John Wick until volume 3?  

Love you Joe but your threads over the last year or so paint a picture of a guy who’s slipping a bit.

I get your forums are dying and maybe you’re trying to drum up traffic? I don’t know. But, as someone who’s been a fan of your posting over the years, you’ve taken a curious turn. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thousands more people annually by driving impaired  and other alcohol related abuse/crime, it is regularly depicted in cinema and you chose this hyperbolic soapbox to preach from? 

What percentage of rounds fired “strike children in schoolyards?”

You don’t like guns... we get it. How the hell did you not figure out you wouldn’t like John Wick until volume 3?  

Love you Joe but your threads over the last year or so paint a picture of a guy who’s slipping a bit.

I get your forums are dying and maybe you’re trying to drum up traffic? I don’t know. But, as someone who’s been a fan of your posting over the years, you’ve taken a curious turn. 

Hi @[icon]  Love you too. But not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate on "a guy who's slipping a bit"? 

Traffic on the forums is high. I don't need to do anything to drum it up. I do like asking about things that surprise me. The John Wick thing was one.  I promise, I have lots better things to do than try and generate traffic to a message board forum. But super interested in exactly what you mean on the "slipping". Can you give me some links and specific examples? Thanks. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

This. I call it man massage. When I leave the range, I feel the same way as I do after getting a full body massage, of which I've had exactly 2. It's like a huge stress relief session. I wish I could get to the range more often. 

I can see that. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Love you Joe but your threads over the last year or so paint a picture of a guy who’s slipping a bit.

I get your forums are dying and maybe you’re trying to drum up traffic? I don’t know. But, as someone who’s been a fan of your posting over the years, you’ve taken a curious turn. 

Can you give me links and specific examples on posts you're talking about? Thanks. 

 

[matuski]

I totally can see your point. That's exactly the author's point. 

Do you think we'd feel the same way about loving Kung Fu movies if it was a regular occurrence where a guy went into a school and killed kids with Kung Fu?

People were absolutely lamenting violence on film for causing real life violence back then.

Those damn kids were imitating Bruce Lee and the Lone Ranger in school yards!  They probably even got to bring play guns to school.

eta - now that I think about, we brought cap guns to school.

 

[TheFanatic]

Renewed my conceal carry for 5 more years. So there's that. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

People were absolutely lamenting violence on film for causing real life violence back then.

Those damn kids were imitating Bruce Lee and the Lone Ranger in school yards!  They probably even got to bring play guns to school.

eta - now that I think about, we brought cap guns to school.

That's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking if you think people would view Kung Fu movies differently if it was a regular occurrence that some person went to a school or club or workplace and murdered a bunch of people using Kung Fu?

And @[icon], can you give me links and specific examples on posts you're talking about with the posts I asked about above?  

 

[Juxtatarot]

I think both. 

And I have to be honest, this isn't a well reasoned or especially thoughtful take on my part. Just how I'm feeling. 

I think I understand your gut instinct about this topic and I think I agree.  Imagine if people didn't find shooting guns exhilarating and watching extremely violent movies entertaining escapism.  Pretend many more people saw it as repulsive.  It just seems like common sense to me that this shift in attitude would impact how we legislate guns.

 

[matuski]

That's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking if you think people would view Kung Fu movies differently if it was a regular occurrence that some person went to a school or club or workplace and murdered a bunch of people using Kung Fu?

And @[icon], can you give me links and specific examples on posts you're talking about with the posts I asked about above?  

It is/was a far more regular occurrence for people to try to use martial arts to hurt people than it ever will be guns.

I still love Kung Fu movies.

John Wick 3 was outstanding.