Johnathan Stewart (1 Viewer)

[hotlanta]

He is one of the backs I'm heavily targeting on draft day because I think that D. Williams will come back down to earth and this will be more of an even RBBC this year. I also think that as much as Carolina runs the ball, they can field two 1,000 yard rushers much like the Giants of last year. The only news I heard is that his Achilles is 'sore' and he has been told to rest. Nothing else has been said.

Is this a concern for the start of the season? I know he missed some games and practice time last preseason and then proceeded to tear it up in the first few games. I think he's an exceptionally talented back that will see half the carries and all the goal line carries this year.

 

[pantherclub]

He has not practiced in like 6-7 days. My opinion is that he will be fine and just suit up on game days practicing very little through out the year. Fox is not going to push it he knows he has a good thing and is not going to screw it up. That said I would waste a high pick (1-7) on Stewart. I see he is going in rounds 4-5 in some drafts and that is just crazy. I doubt he hits 10 td's again this year. That was just a perfect storm of a running back situation last year between Williams and Stewart.

 

[Bayhawks]

He is one of the backs I'm heavily targeting on draft day because I think that D. Williams will come back down to earth and this will be more of an even RBBC this year. I also think that as much as Carolina runs the ball, they can field two 1,000 yard rushers much like the Giants of last year. The only news I heard is that his Achilles is 'sore' and he has been told to rest. Nothing else has been said.

Is this a concern for the start of the season? I know he missed some games and practice time last preseason and then proceeded to tear it up in the first few games. I think he's an exceptionally talented back that will see half the carries and all the goal line carries this year.

This ain't gonna happen, unless Williams gets hurt (even then, it probably won't happen). If Stewart gets fully healthy, he'll see the same split as last year (about 60/40), and there's NO WAY he'll see all the GL carries. Stewart's ceiling is what he did last year, if he's healthy, and if the Carolina offense is as dominant as last year, allowing for so many late game leads that cause more RB carries.If DWill gets hurt, that changes things, but right now, Stewart is the one who is hurt.

 

[Cleat Spike]

Either way a Goodson 3rd rung handcuff seems savvy to tie to which ever one you get. Maybe last round pick. If either one guys down, Goodson is the automatic RB2 there and compliments them both very well with his open field speed and pass catching ability.

I really think they are just trying to get Stewart back to square one health-wise and over doing it with the rest, which they should. Him not playing or practicing right now might be just what the Dr. ordered to lower his ADP and actually become a great value. His stock is slipping a lot right now since it's a guessing game with his health and the serious sound of anything "achilles".

 

[spider321]

He is one of the backs I'm heavily targeting on draft day because I think that D. Williams will come back down to earth and this will be more of an even RBBC this year. I also think that as much as Carolina runs the ball, they can field two 1,000 yard rushers much like the Giants of last year. The only news I heard is that his Achilles is 'sore' and he has been told to rest. Nothing else has been said.Is this a concern for the start of the season? I know he missed some games and practice time last preseason and then proceeded to tear it up in the first few games. I think he's an exceptionally talented back that will see half the carries and all the goal line carries this year.

JStew is either injured or soon to be injured......has been for years. He is mentally tough and usually plays thru the pain, but he seems to have the feet and ankles of a 40 year-old.DWill led the NFL in TD's last season and had over 1600 yards. Only an idiot would give half the carries and all the goal line carries to JStew.If you think Coach Fox is that dumb, feel free to grab JStew early.

 

[Tanner9919]

never like to hear about an achilles heel injury..they linger on and on..

you just get the feeling that D. Williams is in for a big,big season...

 

[hotlanta]

He is one of the backs I'm heavily targeting on draft day because I think that D. Williams will come back down to earth and this will be more of an even RBBC this year. I also think that as much as Carolina runs the ball, they can field two 1,000 yard rushers much like the Giants of last year. The only news I heard is that his Achilles is 'sore' and he has been told to rest. Nothing else has been said.

Is this a concern for the start of the season? I know he missed some games and practice time last preseason and then proceeded to tear it up in the first few games. I think he's an exceptionally talented back that will see half the carries and all the goal line carries this year.

JStew is either injured or soon to be injured......has been for years. He is mentally tough and usually plays thru the pain, but he seems to have the feet and ankles of a 40 year-old.DWill led the NFL in TD's last season and had over 1600 yards. Only an idiot would give half the carries and all the goal line carries to JStew.

If you think Coach Fox is that dumb, feel free to grab JStew early.

Remember this is the same guy that stubbornly force fed the ball to Deshaun Foster for over 2 years when the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field. Don't put anything past this guy.

 

[az_prof]

Either way a Goodson 3rd rung handcuff seems savvy to tie to which ever one you get. Maybe last round pick. If either one guys down, Goodson is the automatic RB2 there and compliments them both very well with his open field speed and pass catching ability.I really think they are just trying to get Stewart back to square one health-wise and over doing it with the rest, which they should. Him not playing or practicing right now might be just what the Dr. ordered to lower his ADP and actually become a great value. His stock is slipping a lot right now since it's a guessing game with his health and the serious sound of anything "achilles".

The only treatment for Achilles is rest, so they are doing the right thing. If they rest him enough he should be fine.

 

[Ray_T]

Either way a Goodson 3rd rung handcuff seems savvy to tie to which ever one you get. Maybe last round pick. If either one guys down, Goodson is the automatic RB2 there and compliments them both very well with his open field speed and pass catching ability.I really think they are just trying to get Stewart back to square one health-wise and over doing it with the rest, which they should. Him not playing or practicing right now might be just what the Dr. ordered to lower his ADP and actually become a great value. His stock is slipping a lot right now since it's a guessing game with his health and the serious sound of anything "achilles".

The only treatment for Achilles is rest, so they are doing the right thing. If they rest him enough he should be fine.

he's right. There is no need to push the envelope when you have a perfectly capable back (DeAngelo) to carry the load.I figure that he will sit until game 5 or 6 and will be taking his normal workload by midseason unless DeAngelo gets hurt or underperforms.

 

[Bayhawks]

Remember this is the same guy that stubbornly force fed the ball to Deshaun Foster for over 2 years when the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field. Don't put anything past this guy.

So you have a coach who stubbornly force-feeds a veteran RB the ball, even though "the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field."Now we have the same coach, and a veteran RB who the whole world can see has outproduced Stewart, and can be argued is the more talented back.This leads you to think that this coach will give less carries to the more talented, more productive, veteran RB? Care to explain this line of thinking?

 

[Tigerbot Hesh]

Have they ever said Stewart would be ruled out if they had a game this week? There's a big difference in ot practicing because you're too hurt to play this week and not practicing because you're just trying to rest and heal up.

 

[GroveDiesel]

The deal with Stewart is that he's hurt and behind the best running back in the NFL IMO. If you saw D-Will play Monday night, I can't see how anyone would thing Williams will have lower numbers than last season. The guy is picking up right where he left off. It's going to be a run heavy offense so Stewart will still have some decent numbers, but don't be surprised when DeAngelo leaves him in the dust.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Someone posted in the Andre Brown thread that Achilles injuries often lead to other injuries.

I realize that Stewart doesn't have a rupture, but with the toe problem that lingered and eventualy hampered him all last season, I think his ADP should be dropping. It was crazy how high he was being taken before people started to worry about his wheels this month.

Remember that he missed OTA's as well because of an "ankle" issue. So either he had an ankle issue earlier in the year which has been glossed over or his Achilles has been bad enough that he's been up on blocks for pretty much the whole Spring and Summer. How long does it take for an Achilles to heal? It seems to be taking quite a bit of time.

As closed lip as the Panthers were about the injury back in the Spring, I'm not so sure we're getting the full story now anymore than we were back then.

 

[SSOG]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/black-and...-august-19-2009

Jonathan Stewart: The saddest of words in football are "if healthy." I mean, how many times have we said that about Brett Favre? No one questions Jonathan Stewart’s production or talent; they only question his ability to stay healthy. The Panthers took the chance on him last year after he slid slightly in the draft due to a known toe problem. This offseason, it has been his foot again, but at the back this time with an Achilles strain. Stewart remains sidelined by the condition, as he has since the offseason. It's not healing quickly, if at all, and there's some concern about whether he'll be ready or at least in condition when the games start for real. A red zone back who can't push with one foot is a real problem, especially when the cause is chronic. The worry is that getting him back too quickly will snap the Achilles, but at this pace, that might be a risk the team has to take to make sure he's ready for next season. Stewart has to go way down on draft boards, which ironically makes him an interesting risk vs. reward play.

 

[Bob Magaw]

He is one of the backs I'm heavily targeting on draft day because I think that D. Williams will come back down to earth and this will be more of an even RBBC this year. I also think that as much as Carolina runs the ball, they can field two 1,000 yard rushers much like the Giants of last year. The only news I heard is that his Achilles is 'sore' and he has been told to rest. Nothing else has been said.

Is this a concern for the start of the season? I know he missed some games and practice time last preseason and then proceeded to tear it up in the first few games. I think he's an exceptionally talented back that will see half the carries and all the goal line carries this year.

JStew is either injured or soon to be injured......has been for years. He is mentally tough and usually plays thru the pain, but he seems to have the feet and ankles of a 40 year-old.DWill led the NFL in TD's last season and had over 1600 yards. Only an idiot would give half the carries and all the goal line carries to JStew.

If you think Coach Fox is that dumb, feel free to grab JStew early.

Remember this is the same guy that stubbornly force fed the ball to Deshaun Foster for over 2 years when the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field. Don't put anything past this guy.

this was already addressed aboved, but this sort of makes the other poster's point, as the shoe is on the other foot (ie - williams is the more tenured vet this time... if anything, HE would be the benificiary of fox's at times excessive loyalty to vets... though arguably appropriate in this case... they are both outstanding RBs, but not sure if a see a cause or reason for a big change in distribution of regular & goal line carries compared to last season)...

 

[Ray_T]

The deal with Stewart is that he's hurt and behind the best running back in the NFL IMO. If you saw D-Will play Monday night, I can't see how anyone would thing Williams will have lower numbers than last season. The guy is picking up right where he left off. It's going to be a run heavy offense so Stewart will still have some decent numbers, but don't be surprised when DeAngelo leaves him in the dust.

Well, that season he had last year would be a career year for almost any RB. I think I'd be hard pressed to predict that kind of season with almost anybody regardless of talent.I do think he will have a big year, but if he does what he did last year, I'd be surprised. Teams will be ready for the ground game this year.

 

[GroveDiesel]

The deal with Stewart is that he's hurt and behind the best running back in the NFL IMO. If you saw D-Will play Monday night, I can't see how anyone would thing Williams will have lower numbers than last season. The guy is picking up right where he left off. It's going to be a run heavy offense so Stewart will still have some decent numbers, but don't be surprised when DeAngelo leaves him in the dust.

Well, that season he had last year would be a career year for almost any RB. I think I'd be hard pressed to predict that kind of season with almost anybody regardless of talent.I do think he will have a big year, but if he does what he did last year, I'd be surprised. Teams will be ready for the ground game this year.

Granted it was preseason, but the Giants have one of the best defensive fronts in football and yet D-Will was gashing them for huge chunks of yardage.

 

[Maven]

Stewart (Achilles) is out of practice for the sixth straight day on Wednesday, the Charlotte Observer reports.

 

[gregjcross]

He is one of the backs I'm heavily targeting on draft day because I think that D. Williams will come back down to earth and this will be more of an even RBBC this year. I also think that as much as Carolina runs the ball, they can field two 1,000 yard rushers much like the Giants of last year. The only news I heard is that his Achilles is 'sore' and he has been told to rest. Nothing else has been said.

Is this a concern for the start of the season? I know he missed some games and practice time last preseason and then proceeded to tear it up in the first few games. I think he's an exceptionally talented back that will see half the carries and all the goal line carries this year.

This ain't gonna happen, unless Williams gets hurt (even then, it probably won't happen). If Stewart gets fully healthy, he'll see the same split as last year (about 60/40), and there's NO WAY he'll see all the GL carries. Stewart's ceiling is what he did last year, if he's healthy, and if the Carolina offense is as dominant as last year, allowing for so many late game leads that cause more RB carries.If DWill gets hurt, that changes things, but right now, Stewart is the one who is hurt.

I am agreeing and going out on a big limb. Forget regression to the mean: I actually think that D-Will improves over last year because he is that good, and moreso the Carolina Offensive Line is incredible. If DeAngelo can start that slowly last year and finish with 20TDs, he might get 21 this year.

I will target DeAngelo with picks 6-10 first round in redrafts.

 

[derek245583]

I took D-Will with the 11th pick...

It is coming up to me right now at the end of the 6th beginning of the 7th (3rd round reversal)....I am considering NOT taking Jonathen Stewart. Before the draft I was pretty dead set on taking him here....but I am starting to NOT wanna pick him here. Instead get a Cedric Benson or Lee Evans (Fingers Crossed)....

Obviously, if the injury scares everyone off and he comes back to me in the 8th 9th I will take him...but as of now, I am encouraged about what I see from D-Will...and souring a little on JS and his injuries...

Thoughts?

 

[Tigerbot Hesh]

I took D-Will with the 11th pick...It is coming up to me right now at the end of the 6th beginning of the 7th (3rd round reversal)....I am considering NOT taking Jonathen Stewart. Before the draft I was pretty dead set on taking him here....but I am starting to NOT wanna pick him here. Instead get a Cedric Benson or Lee Evans (Fingers Crossed)....Obviously, if the injury scares everyone off and he comes back to me in the 8th 9th I will take him...but as of now, I am encouraged about what I see from D-Will...and souring a little on JS and his injuries...Thoughts?

If you already have Williams, I don't see how you can not take Stewart, too. It's just good insurance.

 

[Bayhawks]

I took D-Will with the 11th pick...It is coming up to me right now at the end of the 6th beginning of the 7th (3rd round reversal)....I am considering NOT taking Jonathen Stewart. Before the draft I was pretty dead set on taking him here....but I am starting to NOT wanna pick him here. Instead get a Cedric Benson or Lee Evans (Fingers Crossed)....Obviously, if the injury scares everyone off and he comes back to me in the 8th 9th I will take him...but as of now, I am encouraged about what I see from D-Will...and souring a little on JS and his injuries...Thoughts?

If you already have Williams, I don't see how you can not take Stewart, too. It's just good insurance.

But it's not insurance at all if Stewart is hurt. If he feels that Stewart will make it back to him in the 8th, and he can get a starting RB (Benson) or WR2 (Evans), he should wait on Stewart.

 

[derek245583]

I took D-Will with the 11th pick...It is coming up to me right now at the end of the 6th beginning of the 7th (3rd round reversal)....I am considering NOT taking Jonathen Stewart. Before the draft I was pretty dead set on taking him here....but I am starting to NOT wanna pick him here. Instead get a Cedric Benson or Lee Evans (Fingers Crossed)....Obviously, if the injury scares everyone off and he comes back to me in the 8th 9th I will take him...but as of now, I am encouraged about what I see from D-Will...and souring a little on JS and his injuries...Thoughts?

If you already have Williams, I don't see how you can not take Stewart, too. It's just good insurance.

I guess I dont wanna take a guy who could be virtually unstartable all year and pass up a starter...it all depends on who is there in a few picks, but the only way I am really hitting a HR here is if DWill gets hurt.If it gets to me and Evans and or Benson are there..I am taking them....I will probably take Stewart over some TE's though as well as the other RBsI am just not a fan of spending a 6th or 7th rounder on "insurance" I guess.

 

[derek245583]

I took D-Will with the 11th pick...It is coming up to me right now at the end of the 6th beginning of the 7th (3rd round reversal)....I am considering NOT taking Jonathen Stewart. Before the draft I was pretty dead set on taking him here....but I am starting to NOT wanna pick him here. Instead get a Cedric Benson or Lee Evans (Fingers Crossed)....Obviously, if the injury scares everyone off and he comes back to me in the 8th 9th I will take him...but as of now, I am encouraged about what I see from D-Will...and souring a little on JS and his injuries...Thoughts?

If you already have Williams, I don't see how you can not take Stewart, too. It's just good insurance.

But it's not insurance at all if Stewart is hurt. If he feels that Stewart will make it back to him in the 8th, and he can get a starting RB (Benson) or WR2 (Evans), he should wait on Stewart.

Well, I think its safe to say Stewart will NOT make it back to me...I am struggling to take an insurance policy that may be damaged goods.The whole handcuff discussion is an intriguing one imo.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

I took D-Will with the 11th pick...It is coming up to me right now at the end of the 6th beginning of the 7th (3rd round reversal)....I am considering NOT taking Jonathen Stewart. Before the draft I was pretty dead set on taking him here....but I am starting to NOT wanna pick him here. Instead get a Cedric Benson or Lee Evans (Fingers Crossed)....Obviously, if the injury scares everyone off and he comes back to me in the 8th 9th I will take him...but as of now, I am encouraged about what I see from D-Will...and souring a little on JS and his injuries...Thoughts?

If you already have Williams, I don't see how you can not take Stewart, too. It's just good insurance.

But it's not insurance at all if Stewart is hurt. If he feels that Stewart will make it back to him in the 8th, and he can get a starting RB (Benson) or WR2 (Evans), he should wait on Stewart.

Well, I think its safe to say Stewart will NOT make it back to me...I am struggling to take an insurance policy that may be damaged goods.The whole handcuff discussion is an intriguing one imo.

Stewart is the one needing an insurance policy, not Williams.

 

[fourd]

I took D-Will with the 11th pick...It is coming up to me right now at the end of the 6th beginning of the 7th (3rd round reversal)....I am considering NOT taking Jonathen Stewart. Before the draft I was pretty dead set on taking him here....but I am starting to NOT wanna pick him here. Instead get a Cedric Benson or Lee Evans (Fingers Crossed)....Obviously, if the injury scares everyone off and he comes back to me in the 8th 9th I will take him...but as of now, I am encouraged about what I see from D-Will...and souring a little on JS and his injuries...Thoughts?

If you already have Williams, I don't see how you can not take Stewart, too. It's just good insurance.

But it's not insurance at all if Stewart is hurt. If he feels that Stewart will make it back to him in the 8th, and he can get a starting RB (Benson) or WR2 (Evans), he should wait on Stewart.

Well, I think its safe to say Stewart will NOT make it back to me...I am struggling to take an insurance policy that may be damaged goods.The whole handcuff discussion is an intriguing one imo.

Stewart is the one needing an insurance policy, not Williams.

And it's unlikely he'll get it due to his preexisting condition.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

Stewart is talented, but it seems as if he's always dealing with some injury with his legs/feet. He missed time in both his freshman and sophomore years at Oregon with ankle injuries, was healthy his junior year before coming out, had injuries last year and now has the Achilles issue. And his injuries don't appear to be freak accidents, but more of a chronic or recurring nature. Can't say I'll be looking to spend a pick on him before the 9th/10th round unless there's some big change in his health.

 

[T Bell]

Can't tell you how thrilled I am to have drafted Stewart and Moreno in successive drafts. Maybe they'll combine for 8 games for me this year.

 

[hotlanta]

Remember this is the same guy that stubbornly force fed the ball to Deshaun Foster for over 2 years when the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field. Don't put anything past this guy.

So you have a coach who stubbornly force-feeds a veteran RB the ball, even though "the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field."Now we have the same coach, and a veteran RB who the whole world can see has outproduced Stewart, and can be argued is the more talented back.This leads you to think that this coach will give less carries to the more talented, more productive, veteran RB? Care to explain this line of thinking?

Don't underestimate Stewart. He is an immensely talented back. DWill is good and the stars aligned for him last year, but he had trouble passing Foster on the depth chart for 2 years. I guess I am just sore because I used a high pick on him for those 2 years and got burned each time, so I admit I am biased. But really its John Fox to blame, and not him.

 

[Bayhawks]

Remember this is the same guy that stubbornly force fed the ball to Deshaun Foster for over 2 years when the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field. Don't put anything past this guy.

So you have a coach who stubbornly force-feeds a veteran RB the ball, even though "the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field."Now we have the same coach, and a veteran RB who the whole world can see has outproduced Stewart, and can be argued is the more talented back.This leads you to think that this coach will give less carries to the more talented, more productive, veteran RB? Care to explain this line of thinking?

Don't underestimate Stewart. He is an immensely talented back. DWill is good and the stars aligned for him last year, but he had trouble passing Foster on the depth chart for 2 years. I guess I am just sore because I used a high pick on him for those 2 years and got burned each time, so I admit I am biased. But really its John Fox to blame, and not him.

You ask for opinions/info/insight about Stewart. When you hear something you don't want to hear, you discount it.The facts are:1>Williams had over 1500 yards rushing, over 5YPC, and over 20 TDs last year.2>Fox, as you yourself mentioned, has a certain preference for veteran RBs, whether that preference seems to be warranted or not.3>Stewart has played ONE NFL season, and has not been healthy at all during his NFL career.4>Williams' 2008 season was GREAT. Sure, "the stars aligned," but DWill is not "good," while Stewart "is an immensely talented back." You said that you might be sore because you used a high pick on Williams for 2 years, & got burned each time. Well there's a saying "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." If you AGAIN expect the rookie (or 2nd year) RB to unseat the veteran RB (especially one who has CLEARLY outperformed) the rookie, then you are doomed to repeat those earlier mistakes with Williams and Foster.

 

[jurb26]

Remember this is the same guy that stubbornly force fed the ball to Deshaun Foster for over 2 years when the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field. Don't put anything past this guy.

So you have a coach who stubbornly force-feeds a veteran RB the ball, even though "the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field."Now we have the same coach, and a veteran RB who the whole world can see has outproduced Stewart, and can be argued is the more talented back.This leads you to think that this coach will give less carries to the more talented, more productive, veteran RB? Care to explain this line of thinking?

Don't underestimate Stewart. He is an immensely talented back. DWill is good and the stars aligned for him last year, but he had trouble passing Foster on the depth chart for 2 years. I guess I am just sore because I used a high pick on him for those 2 years and got burned each time, so I admit I am biased. But really its John Fox to blame, and not him.

You ask for opinions/info/insight about Stewart. When you hear something you don't want to hear, you discount it.The facts are:1>Williams had over 1500 yards rushing, over 5YPC, and over 20 TDs last year.2>Fox, as you yourself mentioned, has a certain preference for veteran RBs, whether that preference seems to be warranted or not.3>Stewart has played ONE NFL season, and has not been healthy at all during his NFL career.4>Williams' 2008 season was GREAT. Sure, "the stars aligned," but DWill is not "good," while Stewart "is an immensely talented back." You said that you might be sore because you used a high pick on Williams for 2 years, & got burned each time. Well there's a saying "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." If you AGAIN expect the rookie (or 2nd year) RB to unseat the veteran RB (especially one who has CLEARLY outperformed) the rookie, then you are doomed to repeat those earlier mistakes with Williams and Foster.

Good post. hotlanta, you need to take your emotions out of this. Fantasy football doesn't care about the past and how you are sore on a player. You are letting your emotions prompt foolish decisions. Williams is simply better than Stewart.

 

[hotlanta]

Remember this is the same guy that stubbornly force fed the ball to Deshaun Foster for over 2 years when the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field. Don't put anything past this guy.

So you have a coach who stubbornly force-feeds a veteran RB the ball, even though "the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field."Now we have the same coach, and a veteran RB who the whole world can see has outproduced Stewart, and can be argued is the more talented back.This leads you to think that this coach will give less carries to the more talented, more productive, veteran RB? Care to explain this line of thinking?

Don't underestimate Stewart. He is an immensely talented back. DWill is good and the stars aligned for him last year, but he had trouble passing Foster on the depth chart for 2 years. I guess I am just sore because I used a high pick on him for those 2 years and got burned each time, so I admit I am biased. But really its John Fox to blame, and not him.

You ask for opinions/info/insight about Stewart. When you hear something you don't want to hear, you discount it.The facts are:1>Williams had over 1500 yards rushing, over 5YPC, and over 20 TDs last year.2>Fox, as you yourself mentioned, has a certain preference for veteran RBs, whether that preference seems to be warranted or not.3>Stewart has played ONE NFL season, and has not been healthy at all during his NFL career.4>Williams' 2008 season was GREAT. Sure, "the stars aligned," but DWill is not "good," while Stewart "is an immensely talented back." You said that you might be sore because you used a high pick on Williams for 2 years, & got burned each time. Well there's a saying "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." If you AGAIN expect the rookie (or 2nd year) RB to unseat the veteran RB (especially one who has CLEARLY outperformed) the rookie, then you are doomed to repeat those earlier mistakes with Williams and Foster.

Good post. hotlanta, you need to take your emotions out of this. Fantasy football doesn't care about the past and how you are sore on a player. You are letting your emotions prompt foolish decisions. Williams is simply better than Stewart.

I hear ya, and you are 100% correct!

 

[Don't Noonan]

Put me in the minority that feels Stewart will have more fantasy points than Williams THIS year.

 

[az_prof]

Remember this is the same guy that stubbornly force fed the ball to Deshaun Foster for over 2 years when the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field. Don't put anything past this guy.

So you have a coach who stubbornly force-feeds a veteran RB the ball, even though "the rest of the world saw that DWill was more talented and outproduced him when he was on the field."Now we have the same coach, and a veteran RB who the whole world can see has outproduced Stewart, and can be argued is the more talented back.This leads you to think that this coach will give less carries to the more talented, more productive, veteran RB? Care to explain this line of thinking?

Don't underestimate Stewart. He is an immensely talented back. DWill is good and the stars aligned for him last year, but he had trouble passing Foster on the depth chart for 2 years. I guess I am just sore because I used a high pick on him for those 2 years and got burned each time, so I admit I am biased. But really its John Fox to blame, and not him.

You ask for opinions/info/insight about Stewart. When you hear something you don't want to hear, you discount it.The facts are:1>Williams had over 1500 yards rushing, over 5YPC, and over 20 TDs last year.2>Fox, as you yourself mentioned, has a certain preference for veteran RBs, whether that preference seems to be warranted or not.3>Stewart has played ONE NFL season, and has not been healthy at all during his NFL career.4>Williams' 2008 season was GREAT. Sure, "the stars aligned," but DWill is not "good," while Stewart "is an immensely talented back." You said that you might be sore because you used a high pick on Williams for 2 years, & got burned each time. Well there's a saying "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." If you AGAIN expect the rookie (or 2nd year) RB to unseat the veteran RB (especially one who has CLEARLY outperformed) the rookie, then you are doomed to repeat those earlier mistakes with Williams and Foster.

Good post. hotlanta, you need to take your emotions out of this. Fantasy football doesn't care about the past and how you are sore on a player. You are letting your emotions prompt foolish decisions. Williams is simply better than Stewart.

Correction: William simply has been HEALTHIER than Stewart SO FAR.I think you have to be careful about concluding he is "simply better." I don't see that. He has had more opportunity and has been healthier--so far. He has only been a starter himself one season. The roles could change very quickly.

 

[Bayhawks]

Correction: William simply has been HEALTHIER than Stewart SO FAR.

What are you saying? I don't care if Stewart "could have" put up better stats than Williams, he hasn't! If a RB can't play, then he's not better (for a real NFL team, or a FF team) than a RB who can play.Besides that, your basic premise: that Williams hasn't been better, just healthier, that Stewart, IS FACTUALLY WRONG!Look at last year:Williams: 274 carries, 1518 yards, 5.5 YPC, 18 TD, 22 receptions, 121 yards, 5.5 YPR, 2 TDStewart: 183 carries, 833 yards, 4.6 YPC, 10 TD, 8 receptions, 47 yards, 5.9 YPR, 0 TDCarries: Williams' numbers are betterYards: Williams' numbers are betterYPC: Williams' numbers are betterTDs: Williams' numbers are betterRec: Williams' numbers are betterRec yards: Williams' numbers are betterYPR: Stewart's numbers are better!!!Rec TD: Williams' numbers are betterBut wait, that must be only because Williams' has been healthier, right?The only mention I can find of Stewart being injured during the 1st 8 games last year was getting "dinged up" during week 6. (This was mentioned in the FBG Game summary for week 7) He still received 17 and 8 carries in games 7 & 8, so the injury wasn't too serious. Now, since Williams didn't explode until the 2nd half of 2008, and Stewart is superior to Williams, then the numbers should bear that out, right? Especially since they both appeared to be healthy for the majority of these 1st 8 games, right?Games 1-8:Williams: 121 carries, 525 yards, 4.3 YPC, 3 TD, 12 receptions, 76 yards, , 6.3 YPR, 2 TDStewart: 95 carries, 359 yards, 3.8 YPC, 5 TD, 4 receptions, 12 yards, 3.0 YPR, 0 TDHuh, that's weird. During this time period, Williams was NOT healthier than Stewart, yet ALL of his stats (except TDs, which were equal) are better? Now, we all know that Williams 2nd half was MUCH BETTER than Stewart's. He had double the yards, and triple the TDs than Stewart. What's interesting, though, is that Stewart's 2nd half was better than his 1st half. He gained more yards, and scored the same # of TDs. What's more, he had his two best games (week 11 & 14-both over 100 yards) during this stretch. So-when Stewart was playing his best, his yardage and TD output was being doubled and tripled by Williams??? That kind of disproves your theory that Williams wasn't better than Stewart, only healthier, doesn't it?

 

[BoulderBob]

Barring Stewart being healthy for week 1 and DeAngelo getting stopped around the 1 or 2 yard line an inordinate amount of times, I don't see anyway Stewart comes close to Williams in fantasy points this year. The talent I saw on display Monday night was elite, he might be the shiftiest/quickest/toughest to get a hand on runner in the NFL. I think he is #2 on the pound for pound list behind Adrian Peterson, but the gap isn't that wide anymore. Last years explosion was just the start folks, we have a poor man's Barry Sanders to enjoy for as long as his knees continue to cut on a dime.

Stewart, assuming he is healthy, will get his, but I don't see 10 TD's happening again...

 

[SSOG]

That kind of disproves your theory that Williams wasn't better than Stewart, only healthier, doesn't it?

I hate to ruin a good statistical rant with something as inconsequential as context, but...On carries with 3 or fewer yards to go for a first down, Stewart averaged significantly more yards per carry (4.9 to 3.7) and was more likely to get a first down (73% to 67%). Inside the red zone, Stewart averaged more yards per carry and was more likely to get a first down. On third down Williams had a higher ypc (7.7 to 6.5- both obscene values), but Stewart was more likely to convert for a fresh set of downs (60% to 45%).Last year, Williams was better than Stewart on early downs, while Stewart was better on late downs. Williams was better between the 20s, while Stewart was better in the red zone. Williams was better in long yardage, while Stewart was better in short yardage. The fact that Williams has better statistics across the board really only demonstrate a difference in usage patterns (since short yardage and goal line work is a bad way to compile stats). Both runners were very impressive, although I think that Stewart is the more talented of the two, assuming they're both healthy (which is a massive assumption given Stewart's injury history).

 

[PahtyTom]

Stewart has seemed pretty upbeat and has been seen joking around with Coach Fox more than a few times while on the sidelines at practice. I guess he's not too worried about it.

 

[Don't Noonan]

Here are Williams stats his rookie year:

121 carries, 501 yards, 4.1 YPC, 1 TD

33 receptions, 313 yards, 1 TD

IMO, Stewart is more talented but Williams impressed the hell out of me last year. I think last year is Williams ceiling and last year was Stewart's floor. Who would rather draft for value?

 

[gianmarco]

While I actually love Stewart.........

The sad thing is that those that have been predicting that DeAngelo would be losing carries to Stewart will now get to blame the injury for that not happening. While still opinion, this writing has been on the wall for a while, injury or not (IMHO).

 

[johnb]

That kind of disproves your theory that Williams wasn't better than Stewart, only healthier, doesn't it?

I hate to ruin a good statistical rant with something as inconsequential as context, but...On carries with 3 or fewer yards to go for a first down, Stewart averaged significantly more yards per carry (4.9 to 3.7) and was more likely to get a first down (73% to 67%). Inside the red zone, Stewart averaged more yards per carry and was more likely to get a first down. On third down Williams had a higher ypc (7.7 to 6.5- both obscene values), but Stewart was more likely to convert for a fresh set of downs (60% to 45%).Last year, Williams was better than Stewart on early downs, while Stewart was better on late downs. Williams was better between the 20s, while Stewart was better in the red zone. Williams was better in long yardage, while Stewart was better in short yardage. The fact that Williams has better statistics across the board really only demonstrate a difference in usage patterns (since short yardage and goal line work is a bad way to compile stats). Both runners were very impressive, although I think that Stewart is the more talented of the two, assuming they're both healthy (which is a massive assumption given Stewart's injury history).

This is interesting analysis, but I need to ask a few questions before I know what to think about it. Does the "3 or fewer yards" needed or the "inside the red zone" include goal line work that a touchdown was converted on? Can you provide more detail on how many carries fit into each of your percentages just to give us an idea of sample size?

 

[Orlando RMF]

He is one of the backs I'm heavily targeting on draft day because I think that D. Williams will come back down to earth and this will be more of an even RBBC this year. I also think that as much as Carolina runs the ball, they can field two 1,000 yard rushers much like the Giants of last year. The only news I heard is that his Achilles is 'sore' and he has been told to rest. Nothing else has been said.

Is this a concern for the start of the season? I know he missed some games and practice time last preseason and then proceeded to tear it up in the first few games. I think he's an exceptionally talented back that will see half the carries and all the goal line carries this year.

This ain't gonna happen, unless Williams gets hurt (even then, it probably won't happen). If Stewart gets fully healthy, he'll see the same split as last year (about 60/40), and there's NO WAY he'll see all the GL carries. Stewart's ceiling is what he did last year, if he's healthy, and if the Carolina offense is as dominant as last year, allowing for so many late game leads that cause more RB carries.If DWill gets hurt, that changes things, but right now, Stewart is the one who is hurt.

I am agreeing and going out on a big limb. Forget regression to the mean: I actually think that D-Will improves over last year because he is that good, and moreso the Carolina Offensive Line is incredible. If DeAngelo can start that slowly last year and finish with 20TDs, he might get 21 this year.

I will target DeAngelo with picks 6-10 first round in redrafts.

I took Deangelo 2nd overall in my draft. Why? He was #1 runningback last in our points system, he still had 10 TD's vultured by Stewart, he didn't do much in the first 6 games. He exploded after that. Now I am not projecting him to be on the same pace as his last 10 games, but if you spread out his last 10 games over 16 games of this season he is still 1 or 2 in my scoring system. Stewart's injury may heal and lets hope so because it's possible the Deangelo will wear down or get injured himself with taking on the full load (even though I think Goodson plays if Stewart doesn't). Deangelo is a steal after the 5th pick IMHO.

 

[Bayhawks]

That kind of disproves your theory that Williams wasn't better than Stewart, only healthier, doesn't it?

I hate to ruin a good statistical rant with something as inconsequential as context, but...On carries with 3 or fewer yards to go for a first down, Stewart averaged significantly more yards per carry (4.9 to 3.7) and was more likely to get a first down (73% to 67%). Inside the red zone, Stewart averaged more yards per carry and was more likely to get a first down. On third down Williams had a higher ypc (7.7 to 6.5- both obscene values), but Stewart was more likely to convert for a fresh set of downs (60% to 45%).

Last year, Williams was better than Stewart on early downs, while Stewart was better on late downs. Williams was better between the 20s, while Stewart was better in the red zone. Williams was better in long yardage, while Stewart was better in short yardage. The fact that Williams has better statistics across the board really only demonstrate a difference in usage patterns (since short yardage and goal line work is a bad way to compile stats). Both runners were very impressive, although I think that Stewart is the more talented of the two, assuming they're both healthy (which is a massive assumption given Stewart's injury history).

Context-the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effectGo back and read the original post. This topic is about Stewart's value in Fantasy Footall.

Then go back and read the post I responded to. That poster said that Williams' wasn't better, only healthier.

So that's the context. In FF, Stewart is better than Williams, but he isn't healthier. I used stats to show that that was incorrect.

You came in and use some cherry-picked stats that you feel show that Stewart is more talented.

He might be more talented (that's a subjective point), but he's not better for FF. Not many leagues give points for first downs, and even fewer give points for YPC depending on down.

 

[Todem]

This team will run ball down everyones throat all season long.

Demangelo is clearly the lead guy....but Stewart presents great value as a RB3 and if Williams get's nicked up or misses any time Stewart becomes very valuable.

To me there is no debate. Williams proved last season he is a stud, and when called upon Stewart proved he has elite skills. Carolina has a great situation and for fantasy purposes I think if you take Williams you have to lock up Stewart.

If there were ever a situation of handcuffs (which I rarley believe in reaching for unless the 2nd back has tremendous upside as a starter and you invest a top 3-4 pick in the lead guy) this is it, along with Peterson and Taylor and Ronnie and Ricky.

Stewart has a higher celing this season IMO then he did last year. He can easily get 10 TD's again. And get more receptions. Kid is a beast.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Here are Williams stats his rookie year:121 carries, 501 yards, 4.1 YPC, 1 TD33 receptions, 313 yards, 1 TDIMO, Stewart is more talented but Williams impressed the hell out of me last year. I think last year is Williams ceiling and last year was Stewart's floor. Who would rather draft for value?

So Williams's ceiling is the RB1 in fantasy football and Stewart's floor is the RB30/38 (in my league's scoring system in total/PPG). My league doesn't give bonus points, or any points for that matter, for value.If the Carolina running game regresses and Williams suffers, it will regress for Stewart as well. A 40% share of a smaller pie means less pie for Stewart as well. Taking him as your RB3 is risky as you depend upon an injury to Williams to get your value. And relying on an injury to Williams to get value out of a guy who's nursing his second injury in as many seasons is the definition of reckless.Considering that Williams is projected by FBG as the RB10 in my Draft Dominator, I think he's a steal as a RB2 and might very well be available as such if your competition goes WR and Brady/Brees early.I wouldn't touch Stewart until my RB4 in my leagues' formats.

 

[Todem]

Here are Williams stats his rookie year:121 carries, 501 yards, 4.1 YPC, 1 TD33 receptions, 313 yards, 1 TDIMO, Stewart is more talented but Williams impressed the hell out of me last year. I think last year is Williams ceiling and last year was Stewart's floor. Who would rather draft for value?

So Williams's ceiling is the RB1 in fantasy football and Stewart's floor is the RB30/38 (in my league's scoring system in total/PPG). My league doesn't give bonus points, or any points for that matter, for value.If the Carolina running game regresses and Williams suffers, it will regress for Stewart as well. A 40% share of a smaller pie means less pie for Stewart as well. Taking him as your RB3 is risky as you depend upon an injury to Williams to get your value. And relying on an injury to Williams to get value out of a guy who's nursing his second injury in as many seasons is the definition of reckless.Considering that Williams is projected by FBG as the RB10 in my Draft Dominator, I think he's a steal as a RB2 and might very well be available as such if your competition goes WR and Brady/Brees early.I wouldn't touch Stewart until my RB4 in my leagues' formats.

Being wreckless with a couple of mid round picks is what wins you titles......it's not like we are practicing medicine.If you can grab Stewy in say the 7th or 8th round....seriously....who has better bang for your buck at RB around there...Fred friggin Taylor?

 

[SSOG]

This is interesting analysis, but I need to ask a few questions before I know what to think about it. Does the "3 or fewer yards" needed or the "inside the red zone" include goal line work that a touchdown was converted on? Can you provide more detail on how many carries fit into each of your percentages just to give us an idea of sample size?

Yes, and yes.Carries with 3 or fewer yards to go-

DW - 30/111/6, 3.7 ypc, 20 first downs.

JS - 26/128/6, 4.9 ypc, 19 first downs.

Carries in the red zone-

DW - 37/116/12, 3.1 ypc, 14 FD

JS - 28/92/9, 3.2 ypc, 11 FD

Carries on 3rd or 4th down-

DW - 33/253/4, 7.7 ypc, 15 FD

JS - 15/98/1, 6.5 ypc, 9 FD

The numbers might be slightly off, since there's a bug in FBG's database where rushes from the 1 yard line that fail to score may not be counted. Otherwise, they should be accurate.

Context-the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect

Go back and read the original post. This topic is about Stewart's value in Fantasy Footall.

Then go back and read the post I responded to. That poster said that Williams' wasn't better, only healthier.

So that's the context. In FF, Stewart is better than Williams, but he isn't healthier. I used stats to show that that was incorrect.

You came in and use some cherry-picked stats that you feel show that Stewart is more talented.

He might be more talented (that's a subjective point), but he's not better for FF. Not many leagues give points for first downs, and even fewer give points for YPC depending on down.

If the context is fantasy football, then why did you provide Williams' NFL stats? Does your fantasy league award points for having a better YPC? Does your fantasy league award points per carry? If you wanted to prove that Williams was the better fantasy back, why not just post their respective fantasy totals when both players were healthy? Also, context isn't provided by the original post, it's provided by the chain of posts to which you are replying. Go read the chain of posts you responded to. Hotlanta started it by saying that Williams was MORE TALENTED than Deshaun Foster (not better for fantasy, but MORE TALENTED). You then responded by saying "a veteran RB who the whole world can see has outproduced Stewart, and can be argued is the MORE TALENTED BACK." Hotlanta responded with "Don't underestimate Stewart. HE IS AN IMMENSELY TALENTED BACK." Jurb chimed in saying that Williams was the better back, and AZ_Prof replied that Williams wasn't the better back, he was the healthier back. That's the CONTEXT of your statistical diatribe. It seems pretty clear that, given the context, it was a discussion of actual NFL talent and not fantasy worth.Also, I didn't cherry pick stats to show that Stewart is more talented. I used multiple stats to illustrate that Stewart is a better short yardage, red zone, move the chains RB (while acknowledging that statistics clearly show that DeAngelo is the bigger home run threat and early-down runner). That's not cherry-picking stats, that's using stats to illuminate a player's usage patterns and skill set. I also don't base my conclusions that Stewart is more talented on his rushing stats in short yardage- I base it on my eyes, which tell me that Stewart, in addition to possessing excellent vision and instincts, is the best size/speed combo at RB in recent memory, and the only guy who comes close is Steven Jackson.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Here are Williams stats his rookie year:

121 carries, 501 yards, 4.1 YPC, 1 TD

33 receptions, 313 yards, 1 TD

IMO, Stewart is more talented but Williams impressed the hell out of me last year. I think last year is Williams ceiling and last year was Stewart's floor. Who would rather draft for value?

So Williams's ceiling is the RB1 in fantasy football and Stewart's floor is the RB30/38 (in my league's scoring system in total/PPG). My league doesn't give bonus points, or any points for that matter, for value.

If the Carolina running game regresses and Williams suffers, it will regress for Stewart as well. A 40% share of a smaller pie means less pie for Stewart as well. Taking him as your RB3 is risky as you depend upon an injury to Williams to get your value. And relying on an injury to Williams to get value out of a guy who's nursing his second injury in as many seasons is the definition of reckless.

Considering that Williams is projected by FBG as the RB10 in my Draft Dominator, I think he's a steal as a RB2 and might very well be available as such if your competition goes WR and Brady/Brees early.

I wouldn't touch Stewart until my RB4 in my leagues' formats.

Being wreckless with a couple of mid round picks is what wins you titles......it's not like we are practicing medicine.If you can grab Stewy in say the 7th or 8th round....seriously....who has better bang for your buck at RB around there...Fred friggin Taylor?

It's also what loses them for you.I didn't say I wouldn't take him, I said I wouldn't roll with him as my RB3.

Draft Dominator has Stewart ranked as R32 in my scoring system.

Here are the RB's outside the top 20 who I might be looking at as my RB3 over Stewart.

K.Moreno

D.Ward

R.Rice

C.Benson

L.Johnson

W.Parker

D.Brown

J.Jones

B.Wells

These are all guys that are the lionshare RB1's for their team or could make a serious push to take over that role by mid-season based on their own ability. Stewart will not be the lead back in Carolina barring injury to Williams. And Stewart is a bigger injury risk than Williams is.

And with the exception of Moreno in Denver and maybe Ward in TB, I don't see anyone on that list in a situation which is as likely to regress in 2010 as Carolina is.

As I stated earlier, the likely regression in overall production in Carolina should affect Stewart as well. So if he wasn't worthy of being a RB3 last season, why would I think he's going to be so this year? He looks every bit as hobbled as he did last year, he has a stud in front of him, and his team likely won't be as successful rushing as it was last year. And there's an impressive looking rookie behind him as well.

 

[Bayhawks]

If the context is fantasy football, then why did you provide Williams' NFL stats? Does your fantasy league award points for having a better YPC? Does your fantasy league award points per carry? If you wanted to prove that Williams was the better fantasy back, why not just post their respective fantasy totals when both players were healthy? Also, context isn't provided by the original post, it's provided by the chain of posts to which you are replying. Go read the chain of posts you responded to. Hotlanta started it by saying that Williams was MORE TALENTED than Deshaun Foster (not better for fantasy, but MORE TALENTED). You then responded by saying "a veteran RB who the whole world can see has outproduced Stewart, and can be argued is the MORE TALENTED BACK." Hotlanta responded with "Don't underestimate Stewart. HE IS AN IMMENSELY TALENTED BACK." Jurb chimed in saying that Williams was the better back, and AZ_Prof replied that Williams wasn't the better back, he was the healthier back. That's the CONTEXT of your statistical diatribe. It seems pretty clear that, given the context, it was a discussion of actual NFL talent and not fantasy worth.

Also, I didn't cherry pick stats to show that Stewart is more talented. I used multiple stats to illustrate that Stewart is a better short yardage, red zone, move the chains RB (while acknowledging that statistics clearly show that DeAngelo is the bigger home run threat and early-down runner). That's not cherry-picking stats, that's using stats to illuminate a player's usage patterns and skill set. I also don't base my conclusions that Stewart is more talented on his rushing stats in short yardage- I base it on my eyes, which tell me that Stewart, in addition to possessing excellent vision and instincts, is the best size/speed combo at RB in recent memory, and the only guy who comes close is Steven Jackson.

I provided the stats that were found on FBG player pages, and then under the split stats for Stewart and Williams. I used these stats, because those are what FF points are based on. Yes, I could have taken out carries and YPC, but I just used the info on those pages without editing it. Also, the topic of this thread MOST DEFINITELY does provide the context. Furthermore, I never posted that Stewart wasn't the most talented back, (I did say that people could argue Williams is the more talented back), because talent is subjective. You can't accurately measure it. Making a statement that someone is more talented than someone else is, largely, opinion based.

What I did post about (and respond to) was the post that Williams' wasn't better, just healthier. That is not subjective. With regards to Stewart's FF value, (which is the context of this thread) Stewart is not better. He may one day be, but he is not there yet.

Perhaps "cherry-picked" was the wrong phrase, but you weren't entirely forthcoming with your stats. (at least not in your initial post)

You said that Williams was better on early downs, and Stewart was better on later downs. That's not accurate.

1/2 down:

Williams-33 carries for 253 yards, 7.67 YPC (I used YPC because yards would be misleading, as Stewart didn't get as many carries)

Stewart-15 carries for 98 yards, 6.53 YPC

3/4 down:

DW-241 carries for 1265 yards, 5.25 YPC

JS-168 carries for 737 yards, 4.37 YPC

How is Stewart better on later downs than Williams?

You also said that Stewart is better than Williams inside the 20.

This is true, but by not posting the stats (just saying Stewart is better), you weren't providing all the info. They're actually pretty close in effectiveness here.

Inside the 20, Stewart converted 39% of his carries into 1st downs.

That is better than Williams, he converted 37%.

Further, you said that Stewart was better in short yardage.

Again, this is true, but it's pretty close.

With less than 3 yards needed, Stewart converted 1st downs 73% of the time (19/26)

Williams converted only 67% of the time (20/30).

So Stewart is 2% more effective inside the 20s, and 6% more effective on short yardage. You feel that that negates the other areas that Williams is better than Stewart, and makes him more talented. That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

However, with regards to FF, Stewart is not the better back.

You compare him to Steven Jackson, but isn't the biggest negative about Jackson that he isn't able to stay healthy? That seems to be one knock on Stewart right now, as well.

Would you rather have Jackson, who was GREAT one year, but average in the others, or a back who MAY have a slightly lower ceiling, but doesn't have the recurring injuries?

 

[SSOG]

Also, the topic of this thread MOST DEFINITELY does provide the context. Furthermore, I never posted that Stewart wasn't the most talented back, (I did say that people could argue Williams is the more talented back), because talent is subjective. You can't accurately measure it. Making a statement that someone is more talented than someone else is, largely, opinion based. What I did post about (and respond to) was the post that Williams' wasn't better, just healthier. That is not subjective. With regards to Stewart's FF value, (which is the context of this thread) Stewart is not better. He may one day be, but he is not there yet.

The original post does NOT provide context for every post in the entire thread- threads go down rabbit holes and get sidetracked all the time. The context for your post is the chain of posts that you quoted. If there's a thread titled "Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR" and someone says "no, Moss is", and I quote that post and say "I agree", then which gives better context- the original post, or the one I quoted? I don't mean to put words in az_prof's mouth, but I sincerely doubt that he was saying that Stewart was going to be a better fantasy back than DeAngelo Williams this season.

Perhaps "cherry-picked" was the wrong phrase, but you weren't entirely forthcoming with your stats. (at least not in your initial post)You said that Williams was better on early downs, and Stewart was better on later downs. That's not accurate.1/2 down:Williams-33 carries for 253 yards, 7.67 YPC (I used YPC because yards would be misleading, as Stewart didn't get as many carries)Stewart-15 carries for 98 yards, 6.53 YPC3/4 downW-241 carries for 1265 yards, 5.25 YPCJS-168 carries for 737 yards, 4.37 YPCHow is Stewart better on later downs than Williams?

You've actually got the stats backwards- you posted the 1/2 down stats under the 3/4 down heading and vice versa. Anyway, the reason why Stewart is better on later downs is because the primary goal on 3rd down is converting for a new set of downs, and Stewart does it at a dramatically higher rate. 60% of Stewart's 3rd/4th down carries resulted in a fresh set of downs, compared to 45% for Williams.

You also said that Stewart is better than Williams inside the 20. This is true, but by not posting the stats (just saying Stewart is better), you weren't providing all the info. They're actually pretty close in effectiveness here.Inside the 20, Stewart converted 39% of his carries into 1st downs. That is better than Williams, he converted 37%.

Better is better. Williams might be close... but Stewart was still better. Which is relevant when discussing areas where Stewart is better than Williams (as opposed to areas where Stewart is *MUCH BETTER* than Williams).

Further, you said that Stewart was better in short yardage.Again, this is true, but it's pretty close.With less than 3 yards needed, Stewart converted 1st downs 73% of the time (19/26)Williams converted only 67% of the time (20/30).So Stewart is 2% more effective inside the 20s, and 6% more effective on short yardage. You feel that that negates the other areas that Williams is better than Stewart, and makes him more talented. That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

Actually, Stewart is 5% better in the red zone and 9% better in short yardage (an RB that converts 2 times in 100 isn't 1% better than one who converts 1 in 100... he's 100% better, since he's converting at twice the rate). And again, I don't think that this makes Stewart more talented- my opinion that Stewart is more talented is formed independent of statistics or data. If the results showed that Williams was better in every single aspect, I'd still maintain my opinion that Stewart is more talented. Stewart is able to do things that DeAngelo could only dream of. It isn't meant as a knock on DeAngelo, it's just like I said- I can't remember another RB that possessed such incredible size while still maintaining high NFL-level speed.

However, with regards to FF, Stewart is not the better back.You compare him to Steven Jackson, but isn't the biggest negative about Jackson that he isn't able to stay healthy? That seems to be one knock on Stewart right now, as well.Would you rather have Jackson, who was GREAT one year, but average in the others, or a back who MAY have a slightly lower ceiling, but doesn't have the recurring injuries?

I never said Stewart was a better fantasy back, I said he was a better RB in NFL terms. You're trying to twist the discussion based on some "context" provided by the original post while ignoring the context of all the posts I was quoting. Still, as I mentioned in the Jackson vs. Williams thread... Steven Jackson has not just had 1 good season, like you claim. Over the last three years, he's finished 3rd, 7th, and 3rd in points per game... and he's done it in pretty much the worst NFL situation known to man (terrible offense, terrible defense, terrible offensive line). He's a stud every time he takes the field. Yeah, if Jonathon Stewart is the next Steven Jackson, I'd gladly take that over DeAngelo Williams. Especially because DeAngelo himself has only been GREAT one year, but average in the others (hey, isn't that what you were accusing Steven Jackson of?).