Jon Gruden resigns as Raiders’ HC over emails that spanning a 7 year period ending in 2018. (1 Viewer)

[Sparky Big Time]

No, it really doesn't. He may not hate gay people, but this doesn't prove it by any stretch. 

Curious, what would "prove" his stance on gay people?

 

[the moops]

Curious, what would "prove" his stance on gay people?

Don't you think we would need a lot more info than the simple fact that there was a gay player on his team?

 

[Zow]

Curious, what would "prove" his stance on gay people?

Very little - unless we could quickly invent some truth serum or some such. And there are probably varying levels of bigotry or sometimes there are competing values that could override one's hate. For a light example, I hate country music but I would nonetheless sleep with Shania Twain.* In that this lighthearted example my fondness for atrtractive women overrides my hatred for country music.  For a more poignant example, Jon Gruden could hate gay people but love winning football games and since Nassib is a good football player Gruden's second feeling overrode the first. 

But, to the point I was responding to, I find little to no probative value in the mere fact that Gruden coached a gay player as it relates to whether he hates gays or is indicative to the level he hates them.  

*Credit to Mighty Casey. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

650,000 emails.  For some reason, the 4 emails from Gruden (one which happened to call Roger Goodell a ##### and ) are sent to the Raiders for review and leaked to the NYT.  Hmmm

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Very little - unless we could quickly invent some truth serum or some such. And there are probably varying levels of bigotry or sometimes there are competing values that could override one's hate. For a light example, I hate country music but I would nonetheless sleep with Shania Twain.* In that this lighthearted example my fondness for atrtractive women overrides my hatred for country music.  For a more poignant example, Jon Gruden could hate gay people but love winning football games and since Nassib is a good football player Gruden's second feeling overrode the first. 

But, to the point I was responding to, I find little to no probative value in the mere fact that Gruden coached a gay player as it relates to whether he hates gays or is indicative to the level he hates them.  

*Credit to Mighty Casey. 

There's probably a lot to this theory.  If it doesn't describe Gruden specifically, it probably does accurately describe more than just a few HCs and GMs.  The NFL is hyper-competitive enough that people who harbor some kind of unspoken animus toward gay people, black people, muslim people, etc. probably need to get over it really quickly or they won't be around for long when their team finishes their third consecutive six-wins-or-less season.  

Then again, that does raise another issue.  If Gruden (hypothetically) hates gay people with every fiber of his being, but his outward behavior is indistinguishable from somebody who help positive views toward gay folks, who cares?  Why would that rationally matter to an employer?

 

[squistion]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/14/what-happens-with-jon-grudens-contract/

What happens with Jon Gruden’s contract?

Posted by Mike Florio on October 14, 2021, 12:52 PM EDT

Several have asked about the status of Jon Gruden’s much-hyped 10-year, $100 million contract, given his resignation after five games of his fourth season. Here’s a look at some of the issues relevant to whether and to what extent he gets paid.

First, the resignation generally waives all rights to ongoing compensation. This assumes, however, that the resignation was voluntary. If owner Mark Davis told Gruden that, if he doesn’t quit, he’ll be fired, that becomes what the lawyers call a constructive discharge.

Second, if it was a constructive discharge, the question becomes whether the Raiders did or didn’t have cause to push him out. If Gruden was discharged without cause, he gets the balance of all guaranteed money under the contract. That said, it’s not known whether the full $100 million was guaranteed. When news of the contract first emerged, we reported that the full amount was not guaranteed. Thus, the buyout could be far less than whatever he was due to be paid.

We’d also reported that the deal wasn’t a straight $10 million per year, and that it was backloaded. Thus, he could have a lot more than $50 million remaining on the final five years, and it’s possible that much of it was never guaranteed.

Third, if Gruden was constructively discharged for cause, he gets none of the remaining guaranteed money. He could choose to fight it. The vast majority of coaching contracts include a provision that requires a grievance to be filed, and that delegates the resolution of the fight to Commissioner Roger Goodell. That stacks the deck in favor of the Raiders and any other team; in 2010, for example, the Commissioner ruled that the Raiders had fired coach Lane Kiffin “for cause,” cutting off his entitlement to ongoing pay. [...]

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/14/what-happens-with-jon-grudens-contract/

What happens with Jon Gruden’s contract?

Posted by Mike Florio on October 14, 2021, 12:52 PM EDT

Several have asked about the status of Jon Gruden’s much-hyped 10-year, $100 million contract, given his resignation after five games of his fourth season. Here’s a look at some of the issues relevant to whether and to what extent he gets paid.

First, the resignation generally waives all rights to ongoing compensation. This assumes, however, that the resignation was voluntary. If owner Mark Davis told Gruden that, if he doesn’t quit, he’ll be fired, that becomes what the lawyers call a constructive discharge.

Second, if it was a constructive discharge, the question becomes whether the Raiders did or didn’t have cause to push him out. If Gruden was discharged without cause, he gets the balance of all guaranteed money under the contract. That said, it’s not known whether the full $100 million was guaranteed. When news of the contract first emerged, we reported that the full amount was not guaranteed. Thus, the buyout could be far less than whatever he was due to be paid.

We’d also reported that the deal wasn’t a straight $10 million per year, and that it was backloaded. Thus, he could have a lot more than $50 million remaining on the final five years, and it’s possible that much of it was never guaranteed.

Third, if Gruden was constructively discharged for cause, he gets none of the remaining guaranteed money. He could choose to fight it. The vast majority of coaching contracts include a provision that requires a grievance to be filed, and that delegates the resolution of the fight to Commissioner Roger Goodell. That stacks the deck in favor of the Raiders and any other team; in 2010, for example, the Commissioner ruled that the Raiders had fired coach Lane Kiffin “for cause,” cutting off his entitlement to ongoing pay. [...]

Please fight it so all the emails discussing the Redskins, Michael Sam, etc... become public.  I'm sure Goodell and 32 owners would LOVE that.

 

[Zow]

There's probably a lot to this theory.  If it doesn't describe Gruden specifically, it probably does accurately describe more than just a few HCs and GMs.  The NFL is hyper-competitive enough that people who harbor some kind of unspoken animus toward gay people, black people, muslim people, etc. probably need to get over it really quickly or they won't be around for long when their team finishes their third consecutive six-wins-or-less season.  

Then again, that does raise another issue.  If Gruden (hypothetically) hates gay people with every fiber of his being, but his outward behavior is indistinguishable from somebody who help positive views toward gay folks, who cares?  Why would that rationally matter to an employer?

It probably wouldn't and shouldn't - unless such a distasteful fact is clearly disseminated to the public and, more importantly, to the consumers of the business's product. Whcih obviously has happened here and the Raiders are acting rationally by cutting ties.*

*Again, though, Gruden resigned so the Raiders really, from a technical splitting hairs perspective, haven't acted as if his comments mattered to them as his employer. 

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

No, it really doesn't. He may not hate gay people, but this doesn't prove it by any stretch. 

Do you think he kept him on the team because of gay guilt, or maybe it would be called hetero guilt?  Anyways I personally think that he doesn't dislike them or hate them but was talking about the specific situation where he felt the lead force Jeff Fisher's hand on it.  

And Carl Nassib taking a personal day may be because he doesn't want to be bombarded by media.  

 

[Zow]

Do you think he kept him on the team because of gay guilt, or maybe it would be called hetero guilt?  Anyways I personally think that he doesn't dislike them or hate them but was talking about the specific situation where he felt the lead force Jeff Fisher's hand on it.  

And Carl Nassib taking a personal day may be because he doesn't want to be bombarded by media.  

I have no way of jumping inside Gruden's head, but I assumed he kept Nassib on the team because Nassib is good and can help Gruden win football games. 

 

[squistion]

https://twitter.com/tashanreed/status/1448714579534434305

Carl Nassib is back at practice today for the #Raiders after taking a personal day yesterday.