Jonathan Dwyer (1 Viewer)

[semaj33]

Okay so I've read the article...and see all of Waldman's great points....

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04...e-backs-talent/

But from what I've seen with these next highlights as well, I agree with Matt, Jonathan is very hard to access as a feature NFL back....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9Yme2gczU

This young man should not have slipped to the 6th round...

"medical condition" or not...

And he definitely doesn't look like a full-back to me, as I have heard some say...

What I am I missing?

Your Thoughts?

 

[Matt Waldman]

I was surprised he slipped to the sixth round. I expected he would have been a late first round pick because I thought he would be an example of executives getting enamored with the wrong things about Dwyer's game and overrule their scouts. I thought he was more of a 3rd-4th round pick with potential.

I thought Ahmad Bradshaw was a 2nd-4th round pick in that same way, but he slid, too.

 

[Alluro]

I read he showed up to the combine out of shape, and some of his times were terrible for a feature back.

in his highlights he looks like a pretty good prospect. Then again, so did TJ Duckett and Ron Dayne. It's tough to gauge how well these "power" backs will make the transition to the NFL level. Obviously the people who scout for a living thought he wouldn't transition well. That said, if i had a low second round rookie pick, i would take a flyer on him over people like dexter mcluster, tim tebow, etc.

 

[DropKick]

I read he showed up to the combine out of shape, and some of his times were terrible for a feature back. in his highlights he looks like a pretty good prospect. Then again, so did TJ Duckett and Ron Dayne. It's tough to gauge how well these "power" backs will make the transition to the NFL level. Obviously the people who scout for a living thought he wouldn't transition well. That said, if i had a low second round rookie pick, i would take a flyer on him over people like dexter mcluster, tim tebow, etc.

A comment near the bottom of the link -allegedly from a former coach - really question Dwyer's intellect. Joke or not... "couldn't spell cat if you gave him the C and A" must be founded on something.

 

[Steelfan7]

I read he showed up to the combine out of shape, and some of his times were terrible for a feature back. in his highlights he looks like a pretty good prospect. Then again, so did TJ Duckett and Ron Dayne. It's tough to gauge how well these "power" backs will make the transition to the NFL level. Obviously the people who scout for a living thought he wouldn't transition well. That said, if i had a low second round rookie pick, i would take a flyer on him over people like dexter mcluster, tim tebow, etc.

A comment near the bottom of the link -allegedly from a former coach - really question Dwyer's intellect. Joke or not... "couldn't spell cat if you gave him the C and A" must be founded on something.

Factors on why he lasted until 6th rd:He has a learning disabilityHis 40 time is not goodShowed up out of shape at combineRan out of gimmicky offense at GA TechRuns too uprightDoes not run with the power that you would think based on his build5th or 6th rd is about where he should have been picked. Good spot to take a gamble on the kid, but is probably PS material his 1st season. Going into his 2nd season will tell us a lot about him and his pro potential.

 

[Balco]

The more I see him run, the more I see Stephen Davis (a very good thing)

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Does not run with the power that you would think based on his build

I agree with the rest of your comments, but I think this one is incorrect. The main play he ran at Tech was a dive from the FB spot straight into the line where he was usually greeted by multiple defenders and still often got good gains from sheer power.

 

[Faust]

Perhaps Matt can correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that another knock against Dwyer is that his pass protection is suspect, to the point where they think that it could take a full season of NFL coaching just to get him up to the minimal expectations for the NFL game.

 

[moderated]

Perhaps Matt can correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that another knock against Dwyer is that his pass protection is suspect, to the point where they think that it could take a full season of NFL coaching just to get him up to the minimal expectations for the NFL game.

He didn't have to pass protect in a traditional way, no way to really know.

 

[sholditch]

Just grabbed this kid in my dynasty draft without knowing too much about him. I don't think I grabbed lightning in a bottle or anything but am feeling better about the selection after reading the article. Waldman does some really great analysis.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Perhaps Matt can correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that another knock against Dwyer is that his pass protection is suspect, to the point where they think that it could take a full season of NFL coaching just to get him up to the minimal expectations for the NFL game.

He didn't have to pass protect in a traditional way, no way to really know.

He did and he couldn't....really couldn't. But the issue is a technique problem that is correctable...

 

[Matt Waldman]

Just grabbed this kid in my dynasty draft without knowing too much about him. I don't think I grabbed lightning in a bottle or anything but am feeling better about the selection after reading the article. Waldman does some really great analysis.

Thanks!

 

[Godsbrother]

I read he showed up to the combine out of shape, and some of his times were terrible for a feature back. in his highlights he looks like a pretty good prospect. Then again, so did TJ Duckett and Ron Dayne. It's tough to gauge how well these "power" backs will make the transition to the NFL level. Obviously the people who scout for a living thought he wouldn't transition well. That said, if i had a low second round rookie pick, i would take a flyer on him over people like dexter mcluster, tim tebow, etc.

A comment near the bottom of the link -allegedly from a former coach - really question Dwyer's intellect. Joke or not... "couldn't spell cat if you gave him the C and A" must be founded on something.

I question the intelligence of any coach borrowing quotes from Hollywood Henderson...

 

[GreatLakesMike]

He doesn't look like an NFL back IMO. Great long speed for a guy of his size, but no burst whatsoever. Really, really slow 1st step. I also agree with Steelfan in that Dwyer doesn't run with a lot of power.

 

[offdee]

I also agree with Steelfan in that Dwyer doesn't run with a lot of power.

This shows me that you two guys never really watched him play. I understand the knocks, but this isn't one of them.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Dwyer reminds me of JStew - built low to the ground, thick, strong, but agile and fluid for a big back. He can break guys down in the open field and make the subtle moves at the LoS to find holes. He has also not had the benefit of running from seven yards deep, so he is already used to the urgency shift needed for an NFL RB. He's also got a lot of potential as a receiver, there is one play in particular from GT where he skies for a ball like a WR downfield.

I think most of his questions are medical/rawness/scheme based, not talent based.

 

[dwyadog]

Would you take dwyer before any of the other rookie backups such as dixon or starks?

 

[semaj33]

He doesn't look like an NFL back IMO. Great long speed for a guy of his size, but no burst whatsoever. Really, really slow 1st step. I also agree with Steelfan in that Dwyer doesn't run with a lot of power.

"I'm going to move the chains," Dwyer said of his running style. "I'm not going to lose yardage. I'm going to make the first guy miss, and I break a lot of tackles."Kiper also said of Georgia Tech's Jonathan Dwyer: "He's a physical, inside runner. It was a nice pick for the Steelers."

It will be even nicer for the Steelers if Dwyer is able to provide a hammer for a short-yardage offense that has too often relied on a fly swatter in recent years.

As Steelers running backs coach Kirby Wilson said of Dwyer: "When you are 230 pounds, that is a plus, and that can't be taught."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_678849.html

Granted these were his best highlights in college that I posted earlier, and no hate to GreatLakes and StealFan, but the locals are posting how this guy, at very least, is going to help in the short-yardage scenarios this season.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_691897.html

and some even hypothesize him pushing Mendy over the long haul....

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10195/1072718-139.stm

I guess this is why I am posting about this young man. I keep getting conflicting reports and from a dynasty fantasy perspective I don't want to miss out on a potential starter down the road, who probably could be grabbed fairly cheap at this point.

Training camp starts in 4 days.

I suppose we will start to hear more, but for now, I am going to have to wait and see what this "Birthday Boy" (7/26) is going to do down the road...

 

[Brothers Mayhem]

I have been high on Dwyer ever since someone posted a list of video highlights in the forums here somewhere. I watched all of the RB videos and, admittedly, I am no scouting expert, the things I always like to see from a back such as making the first guy miss or breaking his tackle, proper protection of the ball by keeping it away from the defender, using your hands to create separation, and looking down field to locate the blocks - all of these Dwyer did as well as , if not better than any of the other guys drafted ahead of him.

Like many of you, I too am baffled by his "under the radar" status. While I am sure he does have some flaws, most college backs do until the NFL coaches can polish them up. Furthermore - I like his situation. Behind Mendy, he should be able to allow the game to come to him rather than be thrown into a sink or swim spot like Matthews, Best or Spiller.

Looking forward to seeing how he pans out. But he could be the RB of this draft IMO if everything well.

 

[offdee]

Copied and pasted the below from a post I made back in May in a different Dwyer thread.

------------------------------------

I'll admit that I was a big Dwyer backer over the past year and am still a little dumbfounded about his major drop in the draft. But, I'm trying to be realistic here and look at facts of the situation to see if there's something I can deduce to the happenings of his drop to make some sense of it.

Below are some of my findings of why NFL GM's could've been scared off...

- He suffered a toe injury in his final game (Bowl game vs. Iowa in early Jan.). Due to this, his pre-combine training suffered which would partly give some credence to the slow 40 time, bad jump numbers and looking out of shape. (on the other hand, he ran better, 4.52, at his Pro-Day and looked more fluid in drills per those in attendance)

- Gimmicky option offense hard to evaluate vision, initial burst, etc. (although he produced as a true Freshman backing up Tashard Choice in a pro-style offense..82 attempts, 436 yds, 9TDs)

- Late report of a positive drug test (although it came out it was for ADD meds he's been taking his entire life....no illegal drugs)

- Poor pass blocking skills (this one is what it is, and due to the amount of passes GT has per game I'm sure pass blocking wasn't something extensively worked on for GT RB's unfortunately)

- Adam Schefter reported many teams took him off their boards due to "medical concerns", but it's never been reported what those medical concerns were. Was it the ADD? Was it the toe injury? Matt Waldman said he played all year with a shoulder injury which was the first I heard of. As far as I know he never really missed any time in college or sustained a major injury throughout his career so I have no idea what this is all about.

Am I still confused and in denial of him dropping to the 6th round and drafted behind guys like Anthony Dixon and Deji Karim...yes. Do I fully realize that the odds of him flaming out and doing absolutely nothing are now a distinct possibility...yes. Do I think he's still a solid talent that can thrive in the NFL...yes.

 

[meatwad1]

A comment near the bottom of the link -allegedly from a former coach - really question Dwyer's intellect. Joke or not... "couldn't spell cat if you gave him the C and A" must be founded on something.

Lucky for him, this isn't a spelling bee. Seriously...people put too much stock into these inteligence tests. It is well known in the educational reserach field that people possess something called "multiple intelligences", there are the standard ones such as mathematical and linguistic, which let people excell in school type settings, but there are also a bunch of other ones, such as interpersonal, kinestheitic, spatial-visual ,musical, and intrapersonal. Being good in these areas will lead you to excell in other areas. For example, here is the definition of kinesthetic:Bodily-kinesthetic - use the body effectively, like a dancer or a surgeon. Keen sense of body awareness. They like movement, making things, touching. They communicate well through body language and be taught through physical activity, hands-on learning, acting out, role playing. Tools include equipment and real objects.

This probably explains why there are some players who are awesome that didn't do crap on their little wonderdick test, but can sense exactly where and when they need to hit a hole, or increase/decrease intensity of movement in the course of a play. Luckily for 'dumb###es' like Dwyer, no one will ask him to spell cat before he slips past his pulling guard into a wall of linebackers.

Conversely, a lot of the smartest guys suck..look at Mike Mamula, 48 point wonderlic, strong adonis like body, no kinesthetic intelligence = major disapointment in the NFL.

 

[Steelfan7]

Dwyer reminds me of JStew - built low to the ground, thick, strong, but agile and fluid for a big back. He can break guys down in the open field and make the subtle moves at the LoS to find holes. He has also not had the benefit of running from seven yards deep, so he is already used to the urgency shift needed for an NFL RB. He's also got a lot of potential as a receiver, there is one play in particular from GT where he skies for a ball like a WR downfield.I think most of his questions are medical/rawness/scheme based, not talent based.

Sorry Bloom, but if any of those tributes were even remotely close to the truth then Dwyer would be enjoying the money that comes from being a 1st or 2nd rd pick.

 

[Alluro]

Dwyer reminds me of JStew - built low to the ground, thick, strong, but agile and fluid for a big back. He can break guys down in the open field and make the subtle moves at the LoS to find holes. He has also not had the benefit of running from seven yards deep, so he is already used to the urgency shift needed for an NFL RB. He's also got a lot of potential as a receiver, there is one play in particular from GT where he skies for a ball like a WR downfield.I think most of his questions are medical/rawness/scheme based, not talent based.

Sorry Bloom, but if any of those tributes were even remotely close to the truth then Dwyer would be enjoying the money that comes from being a 1st or 2nd rd pick.

I'm not sure I agree with this. We can look at Michael Turner who shares many of the similarities that Jonathan Stewart has and he was a fifth round pick. I'm not saying Dwyer is the next Michael Turner, but being drafted in the 5th or 6th round does not necessarily mean you can't be a very good player.

 

[Balco]

Dwyer reminds me of JStew - built low to the ground, thick, strong, but agile and fluid for a big back. He can break guys down in the open field and make the subtle moves at the LoS to find holes. He has also not had the benefit of running from seven yards deep, so he is already used to the urgency shift needed for an NFL RB. He's also got a lot of potential as a receiver, there is one play in particular from GT where he skies for a ball like a WR downfield.I think most of his questions are medical/rawness/scheme based, not talent based.

Sorry Bloom, but if any of those tributes were even remotely close to the truth then Dwyer would be enjoying the money that comes from being a 1st or 2nd rd pick.

Not singling out Dwyer, here. But how many picks after the 2nd round have turned out to be great players?

 

[stugnut]

He looks plodding to me with no initial burst. If he gets into the open field he does seem to have some speed, but I don't think he is going to see as many huge holes to get him to the 2nd level in the NFL. I see a lot of hit at the line and stuffed in his NFL future.

 

[Balco]

He looks plodding to me with no initial burst. If he gets into the open field he does seem to have some speed, but I don't think he is going to see as many huge holes to get him to the 2nd level in the NFL. I see a lot of hit at the line and stuffed in his NFL future.

It's tough to have initial burst when you are lining up 3 yards behind center as a fullback. I think operating out of a more pro style offense will allow Dwyer to thrive in the NFL.

 

[Catbird]

Not singling out Dwyer, here. But how many picks after the 2nd round have turned out to be great players?

Just to take a look, I glanced at '05 and '06 as likely relevent drafts for '10 production. After the 2nd round in those two, for RBs and WRs only: MJD, Gore, Jacobs, Barber, Jennings, Marshall, Colston might fit your 'how many great players' category? There are another half dozen Cotcherys and Sproles mixed through the late rounds. Being picked late doesn't make it that unlikely, although I would agree less likely.

I think an inability to judge his pro potential from the spread offense (particularly after McFadden-love probably put a dozen scouts futures in jeopardy) and the bad conditioning and combine numbers cost him an earlier spot, but he also apparently didn't wow anyone who watched his game tapes. Not predicting a stud here, but I see the upside. Pretty good 'cuff to Mendy in a deep dynasty.

 

[DoubleG]

It will be even nicer for the Steelers if Dwyer is able to provide a hammer for a short-yardage offense that has too often relied on a fly swatter in recent years.

As Steelers running backs coach Kirby Wilson said of Dwyer: "When you are 230 pounds, that is a plus, and that can't be taught."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_678849.html

I found of most of this thread quite interesting - but the above is coach fluff...Mendenhall is 225.Also, for those using the logic "he can't be that good...how many good players fall that far in the draft?" I'll say two things: Marques Colston and Priest Holmes. Dwyer was drafted higher than either - and there are other examples, these are without looking anything up.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Dwyer reminds me of JStew - built low to the ground, thick, strong, but agile and fluid for a big back. He can break guys down in the open field and make the subtle moves at the LoS to find holes. He has also not had the benefit of running from seven yards deep, so he is already used to the urgency shift needed for an NFL RB. He's also got a lot of potential as a receiver, there is one play in particular from GT where he skies for a ball like a WR downfield.I think most of his questions are medical/rawness/scheme based, not talent based.

Sorry Bloom, but if any of those tributes were even remotely close to the truth then Dwyer would be enjoying the money that comes from being a 1st or 2nd rd pick.

Not singling out Dwyer, here. But how many picks after the 2nd round have turned out to be great players?

I'd probably ask how many picks turn out to be great players period, but if you say useful, productive, fantasy starters - then I think there's a whole bunch - here's a list of backs drafted after round 2. I'm sure 2-3 are debatable, but most fit the bill as what I described above. This is a list from 1977-2009 that I got from drafthistory.com all are third round picks or later...Priest Holmes (undrafted)Terrell DavisBrandon Jacobs (ok)Frank GoreDarren Sproles (ok)Shonn Greene (promising)Marion Barber (pretty good-he, Gore, and Jacobs have outperformed Benson, Cadillac, BRown, and Arrington)Jamaal Charles (looks pretty good)Michael TurnerBrian WestbrookChester Taylor (ok)Rudi JohnsonAhman GreenDuce StaleyKarim Abdul JabarStephen DavisCurtis MartinLamar SmithBam MorrisRaymont HarrisDorsey LevensJamal AndersonAdrian MurrellEdgar BennettChris WarrenLarry CentersBarry Foster Terry Allen (9th round pick)Marion ButtsDave MeggettBo Jackson (I know, cheap answer but...)Herschel Waler (even cheaper answer, but...)Earnest Byner (10th round pick)Craig James (7th round pick)Sammy Winder (often made fun of but was the starter for a few years)William AndrewsLynn CainWendell TylerWilbert MontgomeryThat's 39 players in 33 years...not bad.

 

[Godsbrother]

He looks plodding to me with no initial burst. If he gets into the open field he does seem to have some speed, but I don't think he is going to see as many huge holes to get him to the 2nd level in the NFL. I see a lot of hit at the line and stuffed in his NFL future.

Certainly not running behind the Steelers o-line. Dwyer better be able to break some tackles and.or run over people if he is going be successful on this team.

 

[Godsbrother]

I'd probably ask how many picks turn out to be great players period, but if you say useful, productive, fantasy starters - then I think there's a whole bunch - here's a list of backs drafted after round 2. I'm sure 2-3 are debatable, but most fit the bill as what I described above. This is a list from 1977-2009 that I got from drafthistory.com all are third round picks or later...

Forgot to include Willie Parker who was undrafted and had a few good years with the Steelers.

 

[LTF]

I'd probably ask how many picks turn out to be great players period, but if you say useful, productive, fantasy starters - then I think there's a whole bunch - here's a list of backs drafted after round 2. I'm sure 2-3 are debatable, but most fit the bill as what I described above. This is a list from 1977-2009 that I got from drafthistory.com all are third round picks or later...

Forgot to include Willie Parker who was undrafted and had a few good years with the Steelers.

If you're going to include undrafted, throw in Priest Holmes as well.

 

[Godsbrother]

I'd probably ask how many picks turn out to be great players period, but if you say useful, productive, fantasy starters - then I think there's a whole bunch - here's a list of backs drafted after round 2. I'm sure 2-3 are debatable, but most fit the bill as what I described above. This is a list from 1977-2009 that I got from drafthistory.com all are third round picks or later...

Forgot to include Willie Parker who was undrafted and had a few good years with the Steelers.

If you're going to include undrafted, throw in Priest Holmes as well.

He was the first one on Matt's list.

 

[LTF]

I'd probably ask how many picks turn out to be great players period, but if you say useful, productive, fantasy starters - then I think there's a whole bunch - here's a list of backs drafted after round 2. I'm sure 2-3 are debatable, but most fit the bill as what I described above. This is a list from 1977-2009 that I got from drafthistory.com all are third round picks or later...

Forgot to include Willie Parker who was undrafted and had a few good years with the Steelers.

If you're going to include undrafted, throw in Priest Holmes as well.

He was the first one on Matt's list.

Ahh, okay. Dwyer is a pretty intriguing guy, but I can't envision him doing much this year in terms of FF. Mendenhall is going to be the bell cow and actually was a pretty good back in short yardage situations for the Steelers last year as well. Dwyer at least has some experience in a pro style offense going back to some of the success he saw his freshman year at GT under Gailey, but I don't see how he fits into a Bruce Arians offense.

 

[womb]

I'd probably ask how many picks turn out to be great players period, but if you say useful, productive, fantasy starters - then I think there's a whole bunch - here's a list of backs drafted after round 2. I'm sure 2-3 are debatable, but most fit the bill as what I described above. This is a list from 1977-2009 that I got from drafthistory.com all are third round picks or later...

Forgot to include Willie Parker who was undrafted and had a few good years with the Steelers.

If you're going to include undrafted, throw in Priest Holmes as well.

He was the first one on Matt's list.

Ahh, okay. Dwyer is a pretty intriguing guy, but I can't envision him doing much this year in terms of FF. Mendenhall is going to be the bell cow and actually was a pretty good back in short yardage situations for the Steelers last year as well. Dwyer at least has some experience in a pro style offense going back to some of the success he saw his freshman year at GT under Gailey, but I don't see how he fits into a Bruce Arians offense.

Whatever it is that you are saying can change with one Mendy injury. Also, I may not know my facts about this "Mendenhall is a good back in short yardage situations", but I can say that majority of Steelers posters that I have read threads of do not agree with that assessment. Food for thought.

 

[happy_donut]

I'd probably ask how many picks turn out to be great players period, but if you say useful, productive, fantasy starters - then I think there's a whole bunch - here's a list of backs drafted after round 2. I'm sure 2-3 are debatable, but most fit the bill as what I described above. This is a list from 1977-2009 that I got from drafthistory.com all are third round picks or later...

Forgot to include Willie Parker who was undrafted and had a few good years with the Steelers.

I didn't see Pierre Thomas on that list either. To be fair I'm sure it wasn't meant to be complete.

 

[Godsbrother]

Whatever it is that you are saying can change with one Mendy injury. Also, I may not know my facts about this "Mendenhall is a good back in short yardage situations", but I can say that majority of Steelers posters that I have read threads of do not agree with that assessment. Food for thought.

Arians has recently said that Mendy was decent around the goal line but he could use improvement in short yardage situations. That may be so but I remember that last year Arians was doing a lot of passing in short yardage situations and it was driving me up the wall. Case in point was the opening drive of the Browns game, which was played at night in frigid weather with snow showers:1-10-PIT 15 (12:22) 34-R.Mendenhall right tackle to PIT 20 for 5 yards (98-R.Smith).

2-5-PIT 20 (11:42) 34-R.Mendenhall right guard to PIT 24 for 4 yards (56-K.Maiava, 53-M.Roth).

3-1-PIT 24 (10:58) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 15 for -9 yards (99-C.Williams).

Unfortunately this was a common theme throughtout the 2009 campaign

 

[Urinal Mint]

Here's the problem I see with Dwyer in the near future: the Steelers can't run block worth a hoot. They haven't been able to for four years.

Upside? Jerome Bettis 1998

Downside? Christian Okoye 1990

 

[Godsbrother]

Here's the problem I see with Dwyer in the near future: the Steelers can't run block worth a hoot. They haven't been able to for four years.

 

[DoubleG]

Dwyer is a pretty intriguing guy, but I can't envision him doing much this year in terms of FF. Mendenhall is going to be the bell cow and actually was a pretty good back in short yardage situations for the Steelers last year as well. Dwyer at least has some experience in a pro style offense going back to some of the success he saw his freshman year at GT under Gailey, but I don't see how he fits into a Bruce Arians offense.

Whatever it is that you are saying can change with one Mendy injury.

You could say this about 92% of the backup RBs in the league - Ahmad Bradshaw and Jonathan Stewart are the 8% that already have value.

 

[Matt Waldman]

I'd probably ask how many picks turn out to be great players period, but if you say useful, productive, fantasy starters - then I think there's a whole bunch - here's a list of backs drafted after round 2. I'm sure 2-3 are debatable, but most fit the bill as what I described above. This is a list from 1977-2009 that I got from drafthistory.com all are third round picks or later...

Forgot to include Willie Parker who was undrafted and had a few good years with the Steelers.

I didn't see Pierre Thomas on that list either. To be fair I'm sure it wasn't meant to be complete.

Nope, just answering the open question to name some - not all...keep filling in the blanks as you see them

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Dwyer reminds me of JStew - built low to the ground, thick, strong, but agile and fluid for a big back. He can break guys down in the open field and make the subtle moves at the LoS to find holes. He has also not had the benefit of running from seven yards deep, so he is already used to the urgency shift needed for an NFL RB. He's also got a lot of potential as a receiver, there is one play in particular from GT where he skies for a ball like a WR downfield.I think most of his questions are medical/rawness/scheme based, not talent based.

Sorry Bloom, but if any of those tributes were even remotely close to the truth then Dwyer would be enjoying the money that comes from being a 1st or 2nd rd pick.

Lots of 1st and 2nd round football talents fall to the 5th/6th or later because of things that dont happen between the sidelines - character, medical red flags, bad pre-draft workouts/interviews

 

[Nero]

I think Mendenhall is overrated, yet he should not be threatened by Dwyer. Dwyer blew it at the combine. When I saw the 8'11 broad jump which is in the range of an offensive lineman I knew he would fall hard. "He doesn't run with the power you would...." 8'11 explains it all for me. Not enough athleticism. I wouldn't bother drafting him as a cuff, he will not unseat Moore.

 

[LTF]

Whatever it is that you are saying can change with one Mendy injury. Also, I may not know my facts about this "Mendenhall is a good back in short yardage situations", but I can say that majority of Steelers posters that I have read threads of do not agree with that assessment. Food for thought.

If Mendenhall were to be injured for an extended period, Mewelde Moore would become the bell cow back. He's the only other back on the roster who can be out there all three downs, and while Dwyer would definitely get more of an opportunity to show his stuff, Moore would get the bulk of the carries. As for the Steelers problems in short yardage last year, that's a bit of a misnomer. First off, NFL teams simply don't run the ball on third down unless it's from 3rd and 2 and in. On 3rd and 3, NFL teams across the board passed the ball in those situations 81% of the time last season.

The Steelers actually converted 6 of 7 4th and shorts on the season (all from a yard or more out). They had 7 carries on the year on either first or second down from out to 2 yards from the opponents endzone, scored on all 7 of those carries. If we include those two situations to the rest of the possible short yardage situations, the Steelers were actually fifth in the NFL. So I do think it's a bit misleading to just say the Steelers struggled in short yardage last season. More of this can be found here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-poi...d-short-yardage Their main struggles came as they were approaching the red zone, as well as in long goal to go situations (8 or more yards). Some of that falls on the play calling, some of that also falls on guys simply dropping potential TD passes (Ward, Mendenhall, Miller, Holmes, and Wallace, not to mention Limas Sweed dropping a TD at Cincinnati) were all guilty of this at various times throughout the season. Guys just didn't execute in goal line situations.

 

[Avery]

Whatever it is that you are saying can change with one Mendy injury. Also, I may not know my facts about this "Mendenhall is a good back in short yardage situations", but I can say that majority of Steelers posters that I have read threads of do not agree with that assessment. Food for thought.

If Mendenhall were to be injured for an extended period, Mewelde Moore would become the bell cow back. He's the only other back on the roster who can be out there all three downs, and while Dwyer would definitely get more of an opportunity to show his stuff, Moore would get the bulk of the carries. As for the Steelers problems in short yardage last year, that's a bit of a misnomer. First off, NFL teams simply don't run the ball on third down unless it's from 3rd and 2 and in. On 3rd and 3, NFL teams across the board passed the ball in those situations 81% of the time last season.

The Steelers actually converted 6 of 7 4th and shorts on the season (all from a yard or more out). They had 7 carries on the year on either first or second down from out to 2 yards from the opponents endzone, scored on all 7 of those carries. If we include those two situations to the rest of the possible short yardage situations, the Steelers were actually fifth in the NFL. So I do think it's a bit misleading to just say the Steelers struggled in short yardage last season. More of this can be found here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-poi...d-short-yardage Their main struggles came as they were approaching the red zone, as well as in long goal to go situations (8 or more yards). Some of that falls on the play calling, some of that also falls on guys simply dropping potential TD passes (Ward, Mendenhall, Miller, Holmes, and Wallace, not to mention Limas Sweed dropping a TD at Cincinnati) were all guilty of this at various times throughout the season. Guys just didn't execute in goal line situations.

I'm not sure how you can say definitively that if Mendenhall got hurt Moore would become the "bell cow" before anyone has had a chance to see Dwyer on an NFL practice field or suit up against NFL quality defenders. Also throughout Moore's NFL career, his coaches don't seem to have faith in Moore's ability to carry the workload of a bell cow week in and week out.Also, not sure if its directly on the point, but I think it's difficult to look at the Steelers short yardage stats from last year to extrapolate potential for this year for the removal of key players such as Holmes and Colon will cause wholesale changes in the offensive abilities as a whole.

 

[Balco]

Dwyer reminds me of JStew - built low to the ground, thick, strong, but agile and fluid for a big back. He can break guys down in the open field and make the subtle moves at the LoS to find holes. He has also not had the benefit of running from seven yards deep, so he is already used to the urgency shift needed for an NFL RB. He's also got a lot of potential as a receiver, there is one play in particular from GT where he skies for a ball like a WR downfield.I think most of his questions are medical/rawness/scheme based, not talent based.

Sorry Bloom, but if any of those tributes were even remotely close to the truth then Dwyer would be enjoying the money that comes from being a 1st or 2nd rd pick.

Not singling out Dwyer, here. But how many picks after the 2nd round have turned out to be great players?

I'd probably ask how many picks turn out to be great players period, but if you say useful, productive, fantasy starters - then I think there's a whole bunch - here's a list of backs drafted after round 2. I'm sure 2-3 are debatable, but most fit the bill as what I described above. This is a list from 1977-2009 that I got from drafthistory.com all are third round picks or later...Priest Holmes (undrafted)Terrell DavisBrandon Jacobs (ok)Frank GoreDarren Sproles (ok)Shonn Greene (promising)Marion Barber (pretty good-he, Gore, and Jacobs have outperformed Benson, Cadillac, BRown, and Arrington)Jamaal Charles (looks pretty good)Michael TurnerBrian WestbrookChester Taylor (ok)Rudi JohnsonAhman GreenDuce StaleyKarim Abdul JabarStephen DavisCurtis MartinLamar SmithBam MorrisRaymont HarrisDorsey LevensJamal AndersonAdrian MurrellEdgar BennettChris WarrenLarry CentersBarry Foster Terry Allen (9th round pick)Marion ButtsDave MeggettBo Jackson (I know, cheap answer but...)Herschel Waler (even cheaper answer, but...)Earnest Byner (10th round pick)Craig James (7th round pick)Sammy Winder (often made fun of but was the starter for a few years)William AndrewsLynn CainWendell TylerWilbert MontgomeryThat's 39 players in 33 years...not bad.

That was what I was trying to get out of the poster. Just because a player is drafted after the 1st 2 rounds does not preclude him from being successful. Those recent players put up some great fantasy seasons too. Players drop for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean they can't be successful NFL backs.

 

[Nero]

I'm not sure how you can say definitively that if Mendenhall got hurt Moore would become the "bell cow" before anyone has had a chance to see Dwyer on an NFL practice field or suit up against NFL quality defenders. Also throughout Moore's NFL career, his coaches don't seem to have faith in Moore's ability to carry the workload of a bell cow week in and week out.Also, not sure if its directly on the point, but I think it's difficult to look at the Steelers short yardage stats from last year to extrapolate potential for this year for the removal of key players such as Holmes and Colon will cause wholesale changes in the offensive abilities as a whole.

I can say definitively, it won't be Dwyer.

 

[Avery]

I'm not sure how you can say definitively that if Mendenhall got hurt Moore would become the "bell cow" before anyone has had a chance to see Dwyer on an NFL practice field or suit up against NFL quality defenders. Also throughout Moore's NFL career, his coaches don't seem to have faith in Moore's ability to carry the workload of a bell cow week in and week out.Also, not sure if its directly on the point, but I think it's difficult to look at the Steelers short yardage stats from last year to extrapolate potential for this year for the removal of key players such as Holmes and Colon will cause wholesale changes in the offensive abilities as a whole.

I can say definitively, it won't be Dwyer.

How about neither/both?Dwyer lacks the experience and pass blocking and Moore lacks the size and stamina for a beating. I wouldn't be surprised in a Mendenhall injury scenario to see a lot of Dwyer on 1st and 2nd (with a bit of Moore as well) and Moore on 3rd.

 

[womb]

Dwyer is a pretty intriguing guy, but I can't envision him doing much this year in terms of FF. Mendenhall is going to be the bell cow and actually was a pretty good back in short yardage situations for the Steelers last year as well. Dwyer at least has some experience in a pro style offense going back to some of the success he saw his freshman year at GT under Gailey, but I don't see how he fits into a Bruce Arians offense.

Whatever it is that you are saying can change with one Mendy injury.

You could say this about 92% of the backup RBs in the league - Ahmad Bradshaw and Jonathan Stewart are the 8% that already have value.

You are absolutely right. Yet aggregate stats fail a correct reflection of the case with Mendenhall.I am not a Dwyer fan; I am a dynasty Mendenhall owner. Mendenhall had a total of 32 games so far that he could have started/taken part in. He was out after week 4 in 2008, after not touching the ball 2nd and 3rd games. FWIW, FWP was injured week #3. He rushed for a total 7 times in the first 3 weeks of 2009. It was annoted to his recovery. Thankfully, he stayed healthy from there on out. Taking the first 3 out of 32 games as FWP was the starter, he was healthy for 13 out of 29. That is not the case for all 92% of starting RBs. Frankly, I think that percentage is way down. Especially for those teams that the ball carrier gets close to 20 touches a game.I am also a Gore owner. Again thankfully, he stayed healthy.

 

[Godsbrother]

I'm not sure how you can say definitively that if Mendenhall got hurt Moore would become the "bell cow" before anyone has had a chance to see Dwyer on an NFL practice field or suit up against NFL quality defenders. Also throughout Moore's NFL career, his coaches don't seem to have faith in Moore's ability to carry the workload of a bell cow week in and week out.Also, not sure if its directly on the point, but I think it's difficult to look at the Steelers short yardage stats from last year to extrapolate potential for this year for the removal of key players such as Holmes and Colon will cause wholesale changes in the offensive abilities as a whole.

I can say definitively, it won't be Dwyer.

How about neither/both?Dwyer lacks the experience and pass blocking and Moore lacks the size and stamina for a beating. I wouldn't be surprised in a Mendenhall injury scenario to see a lot of Dwyer on 1st and 2nd (with a bit of Moore as well) and Moore on 3rd.

The Steelers see Moore as a 3rd down back but last year it seemed like his pass protection skills weren't as sharp and Mendenhall was staying on the field on 3rd downs more frequently as the season went on.At this time it is not clear who would step in the starting role if Mendy went down for any length of time. Moore is the vet so he is most likely but I think Dwyer and/or Redman could unseat him depending on what they show in the preseason.