Yeah, Landry would be a good fit for them. He's on a 1-year deal right now, but I can't see the Pats paying him next year.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Jordan Matthews signed by Patriots (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter squistion
- Start date
Boston
Footballguy
Landry is perfect but they are not in a position to pay that type of $ to a WR when they have proven they can dig guys up at a fraction of the cost...my guess is if Matthews proves he fits in he could stick around because I don’t think he will do enough to warrant a big deal...this does have the potential to be a great fit...as with most Patriot WRs you will know real quickly...seems they can either figure it.out or they can’t (not much middle ground at all) and you just don’t know until Brady is throwing live to them...
Last edited by a moderator:
Lets see how quickly Edelman's speed returns. Even Welker took almost a full season to come back to full speed from his late season ACL injury. So at least Edelman has more time to get in game shape.
JMatt is really just a slot guy, but the Pats use multiple guys over the middle with even Gronk in the slot at times.
On the outside I see Hogan (if he remains healthy) first and then Britt and/or Dorsett having opportunities.
Patriots will miss on trying to move Austin Carr to PS... they loved him and now Carr has a good chance for the slot role in NOS.
JMatt is really just a slot guy, but the Pats use multiple guys over the middle with even Gronk in the slot at times.
On the outside I see Hogan (if he remains healthy) first and then Britt and/or Dorsett having opportunities.
Patriots will miss on trying to move Austin Carr to PS... they loved him and now Carr has a good chance for the slot role in NOS.
Boston
Footballguy
Funny you mention Carr...the McCarron kid from Rutgers West (i.e. Iowa) seems to be his clone...in the background as a forgotten man who the local media start hyping up as a potential slot guy...you just know he will have 10 receptions for 110 yards in week 4 of preseason, get everyone excited than get cut for a guy like Britt who will have zero receptions all of preseason...
-OZ-
Footballguy
Fair enough and I'd bet you watched a lot more of Edelman than I have, especially in his early years.
Just keep in mind that Edelman had the GOATs to work with, Matthews had Sanchez, foles, Bradford, Chip Kelly rookie Wentz with first year pederson, Tyrod Taylor, Sean McDermott...
You can say the 2nd rounder was still in a better position to succeed early. But I'm not sure I buy it.
I don't really care about the "hot start to a career" as much as we disagree on whether all things considered Matthews has looked competent. I don't think anyone is calling him elite or giving good odds on him becoming elite.
There are many ways his career path can go. Maybe he's another Torey Smith, maybe he's Golden Tate. (Like you, looking at Arc not style)
He was injured for much of 17, but the point made throughout the threads that he didn't play well is true.
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't care about the hot start, either, but you brought it up and made the weird Edelman comparison.
Golden Tate's career arc was pretty linear. Looks nothing like Matthews'.
FWIW, I think Matthews has looked competent. I never said otherwise. Torrey Smith also looked competent. My point was that competent doesn't always equate to volume and volume is needed for today's PPR format. The NFL is kind of a "what have you done lately" league and it's easy for competent WRs to get forgotten for the next unknown commodity that could be elite. That's why I didn't say Matthews sucks and will never be a WR3. I merely said the odds are against it happening at this point. I'd give him a 40% chance of putting up WR3 numbers in a season going forward. Not bad odds if you are desperate for WR depth and can get him cheaply. Get 2-3 guys with odds like that for peanuts and maybe you end up with 1 WR3 eventually. Personally, I'd rather pay a little more for guys like Corey Coleman or Chris Godwin. But if you already own Matthews, he's a hold. ETA: unless someone gets excited about this signing and you can sell high. I'm just anticipating that nobody is biting.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I own Matthews in one league and do not expect much from him at all in NE - I doubt he's more than a bit player. I will hope this move gives his value a bump and try and trade him - unfortunately that's my local dynasty and there isn't a ton of trades.travdogg said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Edelman wasn't there last year and Hogan missed a lot of time as well (and Lewis was a RB) so I'm not sure those targets are necessarily "available".Bojang0301 said:
Boston
Footballguy
Add in Mitchell who if he can stay on the field has a chance to become a big piece of this offense...TE is another position to watch...Allen was invisible in the passing game last year and has a contract that is begging to have him released...they added Nicklas but I see him as more of a blocking/#3 TE...would not be surprised if they added a TE in the first 2 rounds...
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He projected Matthews for 79 targets (and 224 for Edelman and Hogan). It seems like that validates my point about those 235 vacant targets more, but I'm guessing you were hoping to validate yours?
I would probably take the under on that target total (but it's not outlandish), but even if he's correct that 53-604-4 statline isn't very exciting which is why I'd like to sell him based on this news. Hopefully people see going to the Pats as a big bump to his value.
Boston
Footballguy
I can see why people see it as a bump...he is going to one of the top offenses in the league that loves to pass and has the reigning MVP...Matthews is still young enough where he could turn it up and there is a pathway to numbers there if everything falls into place...that being said once you look deeper what you are saying is dead on because it's the Pats...if Matthews gives the Pats a 53-604-4 stat-line that would mean he is a big piece of their offense...in real football...in fantasy those #'s are not overly appealing (in redraft they are worthless)...my hope as a Pats fan is he can have #'s like the ones you used but also have him be good enough to be able to have one of those 7 catch, 100 yard, 2 TD playoff games where he looks the part...knowing full well he will probably go for 2-24 the following week...someone mentioned it above but if he could replace what Amendola did that would be a huge score...talking about production not their styles...
Last edited by a moderator:
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I understand the Hogan hype and to a lesser degree Edelman but everyone, not just this board, treats Hogan as some kind of god like WR. He’s never broken 700 yards and is 29 years old. Matthews has done that 3 times in his 4 year career.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Also, Wes Welker was done in NE for his age 32 season (probably partially due to money) but was never the same after he left. Edelman will be 32 entering the season and has always been just a notch below the WR Welker was. There is a lot more opportunity here than the picture that wants to be painted.
Last edited by a moderator:
Boston
Footballguy
I don't think anyone doubts there is opportunity...it is more that when you look at the depth chart no one jumps out as being able to really capitalize on it...they have a lot of weapons but outside of Gronk and Edelman to a lesser degree I have my doubts as to who can make the jump from good real player to productive fantasy player...IMO the guy to keep an eye on is Jeremy Hill...if the Pats don't add too much more to their backfield (and I really want them to by the way) he will be set-up for that Blount role with a very best case scenario of being a little like Antowain Smith back in the day...
Last edited by a moderator:
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
This may be true, but how long do you think Brady has left? 2 years? He goes, Gronk goes, BB goes, and the Welker/Edelman role may not mean a thing. Hogan is viewed as valuable maybe because Brady trusts him. If I had Matthews and got an offer for him, I'd be moving him now.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Respectfully disagree, I don't feel Smith is a great comparison, Mathews is 6.3 vs Smiths 6.0, JMatt did more in college at a much younger age and in his 1st 3 yrs in nfl. Save the last, lost yr in Buf he has had more recs every yr in the league than Smith has in his entire career, including Smiths best yr (Smith in 6 yrs hasn't topped what JMatt has done in every1 of his 1st 3 yrs). You r penalizing JMatt for 1 bad yr, yes he had injs and a down yr with bufalo but who doesn't? 1 down yr in Buf shouldn't be used to determine career trajectory and plenty of room for doubt afaic. Don't agree with the "well he might be a good nuf wr 3 talk" when he is a at least a clear #2 imho. It is possible JMatts injs will derail his career and he won't b the player he was his 1st 3 yrs but I don't think the comparison to smith is a good one. Peace........
Last edited by a moderator:
I knew the point had whooshed right past you right when you compared their height. There's a reason I specifically said:NE_REVIVAL said:
Then you go on to cherry pick stats. No one cares how many recs Matthews had. Torrey had more yards. Yards matter more than recs. The fact Torrey did more with less is not somehow a positive for Matthews, but you get an E for effort on that attempt to spin Matthews' inefficiency as a good thing. But again, I don't really care about that because I was never comparing their playing style. Or their height
And I don't know why you are brushing past year 3 for Matthews when discussing his career trajectory. Year 3 was clearly a step down from years 1 and 2. The injured year 4 was another step down, but year 4 alone does not make a downward trajectory.
@ Matthews being "at least a clear #2". First of all, I was talking fantasy. Secondly, no.If Matthews career never takes back off, it won't be due to last year's injury. That would be a laughable explanation. It's not like he shredded his knee.
I'm not anti-Matthews, FWIW. I was just stating my perceived odds of him turning things around after two down years and now a 1-year contract while buried on the depth chart.
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
Not enough targets for him. Hopefully he even makes the team.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Dude not looking to get nasty at all, just offering a differing opinion. It is hard to make a case that a receiver is better (225 recs vs 164) than another without mentioning their recs. If yards are all that matter I could have cherry picked a bit and mentioned Smith only has 1 year with a better yards per game avg than Matthews (sans the inj Buf yr).I knew the point had whooshed right past you right when you compared their height. There's a reason I specifically said:
Then you go on to cherry pick stats. No one cares how many recs Matthews had. Torrey had more yards. Yards matter more than recs. The fact Torrey did more with less is not somehow a positive for Matthews, but you get an E for effort on that attempt to spin Matthews' inefficiency as a good thing. But again, I don't really care about that because I was never comparing their playing style. Or their height
And I don't know why you are brushing past year 3 for Matthews when discussing his career trajectory. Year 3 was clearly a step down from years 1 and 2. The injured year 4 was another step down, but year 4 alone does not make a downward trajectory.
If Matthews career never takes back off, it won't be due to last year's injury. That would be a laughable explanation. It's not like he shredded his knee.
I'm not anti-Matthews, FWIW. I was just stating my perceived odds of him turning things around after two down years and now a 1-year contract while buried on the depth chart.
As for yr 3 I just don't feel 73 recs and 800 yds in 14 games is the tell tale sign of a downward trajectory when it is more recs and Y\G than he had in yr1. It is also worth noting that in this down yr Mathews had more recs than Smith ever did and his Y/G was better than all but one of Smiths seasons.
As more than 1 person has mentioned, Matthews may not even make the team this yr and I admit that is within the realm of possibilities. Its all good man and you could b absolutely right. FWIW, I think Matthews is a good receiver w good pedigree who has been hurt by injs and being in buf last yr and there is a good chance yr4 will prove to be an aberration. Time will tell......If im wrong I will deny ever saying it
Peace
Last edited by a moderator:
Tanner9919
Footballguy
I"m not sure how a JM signing in NE is newsworthy..a never-has-been WR goes to NE to be ,what, a 4th string WR on a team ? meh.JM is on his 3rd team in hisbrief NFL career..hmm,makes you wonder why the two other teams have already given up on him..another BB recycle project? see Burkhead. see Cooks...not every player BB signs turns to gold on his roster. just saying. JM is a ho hum WR who couldnt be the best man in Buffalo and they have no one in front of him. this one gets the :rollseyes: gif.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4812747/bret-bielemas-presence-with-patriots-adds-sec-perspective-for-draft
“In the end, it was relayed to me by someone close to wide receiver Jordan Matthews that Matthews’ decision to sign a one-year deal with the Patriots came down to this: He wanted to play with Brady. Matthews, who also took free-agent visits to Arizona, Green Bay and Tennessee, had other offers to consider in addition to New England’s.”
“In the end, it was relayed to me by someone close to wide receiver Jordan Matthews that Matthews’ decision to sign a one-year deal with the Patriots came down to this: He wanted to play with Brady. Matthews, who also took free-agent visits to Arizona, Green Bay and Tennessee, had other offers to consider in addition to New England’s.”
-OZ-
Footballguy
Really can't blame him for that.
Arizona seems less than ideal. Tennessee too, compared to Rodgers or Brady. Nashville probably has an appeal and it's close to his hometown. Maybe next year...
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
bump no one.....
It's just annoying because I specifically said I was not comparing playing style and only comparing the two players due to career trajectory and draft pedigree and you came back with "bad comp bc height" and then cherry picked some stats influenced by playing style. We're talking about an outside WR specializing as a deep threat vs. a slot WR. No **** one of them catches more passes. It is equally unsurprising that one of them has a significantly higher YPR than the other. They are playing totally different roles, which was why I said from the beginning I wasn't comparing playing style.Dude not looking to get nasty at all, just offering a differing opinion. It is hard to make a case that a receiver is better (225 recs vs 164) than another without mentioning their recs. If yards are all that matter I could have cherry picked a bit and mentioned Smith only has 1 year with a better yards per game avg than Matthews (sans the inj Buf yr).
As for yr 3 I just don't feel 73 recs and 800 yds in 14 games is the tell tale sign of a downward trajectory when it is more recs and Y\G than he had in yr1. It is also worth noting that in this down yr Mathews had more recs than Smith ever did and his Y/G was better than all but one of Smiths seasons.
As more than 1 person has mentioned, Matthews may not even make the team this yr and I admit that is within the realm of possibilities. Its all good man and you could b absolutely right. FWIW, I think Matthews is a good receiver w good pedigree who has been hurt by injs and being in buf last yr and there is a good chance yr4 will prove to be an aberration. Time will tell......If im wrong I will deny ever saying it
I guess you are invested in him and it makes you feel better to twist together a narrative where you can feel optimistic about him. But let's be honest, if year 3 wasn't a down year then why did his fantasy stock plummet? Why did Philly bring in TWO free agent WRs? Why did they trade Matthews away for peanuts? Why did they give his job away to Alligator Arms Agholor? Convenient that you forgot to mention the drop in TDs in year 3. The thing is, I keep saying that I don't think the book is written on Matthews. He could pull it together and have a nice career. I was merely saying the odds are against it if you read the tea leaves of career trajectory and this 1-year deal in a crowded depth chart. But odds against him doesn't mean odds are 0%. If I had room on a roster and needed a WR flyer, there are worse flyers out there. I wouldn't target him, but he's not a bad option to have sitting at the end of your roster for a year to see if he can rehab some of his value and maybe land somewhere as a FA for his age 27 season.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Honestly I read you comment about odds being against him as being harsher than you might have intended.
The eagles offense as a whole fell from one of the best in 13 and 14, to slightly above average in 15 to less than average in 16.
I'm not sure why they traded Matthews but I thought at the time it had more to do with their being horrible on defense for 3 years than anything really against JM.
But yeah, I'm going to bump a receiver about to play with by far the best QB of his career at least a little. Even if his making the team or the field isn't a lock. Also I'm cheering for my local guy. So I'm a little biased.
Last edited by a moderator:
I just think players like this often get forgotten or pushed to the side by NFL GMs. Doesn't mean he's bad. Just means the odds are against him being fantasy relevant again without an injury to someone ahead of him on the depth chart.-OZ- said:
As for his 3rd year, didn't they try to force him to play outside that year after mostly playing slot his first two years? If he's restricted to the slot then I think a lot of GMs would rather use their WR3 in the slot or get a cheap rookie for that role. It would help his cause if he could prove to be a more versatile WR.
As for the trade, I could swear that I remember there being talk of Agholor taking 1st team reps at the slot before Matthews was traded. I think despite Agholor showing much less than Matthews his first two years, the coaches liked his talent more.
Does anybody know how much his contract was for? That would be very telling.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Sure. Whether that was to test Agholor or because he looked better than Matthews, I don't think we know.
Yeah the contract is cheap as ####. Certainly makes it look like he's no lock.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Heard it from a source that Matthews failed his physical with the Packers, and that is why he left there without a deal......
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Didn't mean to annoy you, it really wasn't my intention, just killin time in April. I never said "bad comp bc height" (u no that), I included it with a long list of other facts and reasons why I don't feel it was a great comparison. Yes, we agree they have totally different playing styles so yes the comparison is hard to make.... Bottom line is I feel Mathews was\is a better receiver in college and in the pros and his downward trajectory is due more to injs and situation than anything else, you dissagree and don't feel it is inj or situation related and thats all good. I think if he is healthy he is going to have a good career but he might not ever be right again or maybe he is right and he flames out like Smith did, you could be absolutely right. Yes I do own him in some dynasty leagues and maybe I need to take off the rose colored glasses, guilty as charged; i'm a believer. But its all good bro, time will tell.....
It's fine. This is kind of an April time-waster topic so it's really not a big deal. Just pointing out a straw man when I proactively tried to avoid straw man arguments.
You brought up height, college stats, and number of receptions. The college stats weren't even that different, but talking about college stats after 4 years in the NFL is like talking about your college GPA after you've been working for 15 years. They aren't going to help JM get a new job next year. As for situation, you can't tell me that Torrey didn't get stuck with the same problem. He was playing with Kaepernick and Gabbert in SF! But I don't really want to focus on Torrey. The point was that there are plenty of guys that have a good start to their career that just flame out. I mean, compare Michael Floyd's first four years to JM. Remember Roy Williams? Dwayne Bowe? Wallace has had a decent career but it isn't nearly what we were all expecting after his first 3 years. How excited are you about Kelvin Benjamin at this point in his career?
If you glance at a dynasty ADP, JM is just another dart throw and I think I like several guys around him better. It's typical "upside" bias on my part, but I'd take Moncrief over him in a heartbeat. I like Kenny Stills' career arc better than Matthews' (same age). But pretty much everybody in that tier has a lot of risks, which is why I was saying the odds are against JM. Doesn't mean he's dead weight on your roster. As Lloyd Christmas once said, "so you're sayin' there's a chance..."
squistion
Footballguy
They signed him for peanuts...
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer Apr 9
Detail in Patriots' deal with WR Jordan Matthews shows the bargain:
one-year, $1 million, plus $700K in incentives. Only $170K is guaranteed.
http://aggbot.com/Buffalo-Bills-News/article/31846778
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer Apr 9
Detail in Patriots' deal with WR Jordan Matthews shows the bargain:
one-year, $1 million, plus $700K in incentives. Only $170K is guaranteed.
http://aggbot.com/Buffalo-Bills-News/article/31846778
Last edited by a moderator:
Concept Coop
Footballguy
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Haha:FF Ninja said:
NER: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
FFN: I’d say more like one out of a million.
NER: So you’re telling me there’s a chance… YEAH!
You misspelled "undrafted"
He might not make the team. If he does, he's competing with Mitchell and Britt for a few snaps per game. Had he ended up in GB, that would be a different story. If he gets cut, I'll be watching his landing spot closely.
Gandalf
Footballguy
I could be wrong but I really doubt he gets cut if healthy.You misspelled "undrafted"
He might not make the team. If he does, he's competing with Mitchell and Britt for a few snaps per game. Had he ended up in GB, that would be a different story. If he gets cut, I'll be watching his landing spot closely.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
This gets asked if every NE receiver every year and every season things don’t follow the script. SOMEONE always gets hurt that causes a major redistribution of targets. Last year, Edelman and Mitchell missed the entire season and Hogan played in about half of it.
If something similar happened again this year, Matthews could take on a ton of targets, but that is tough to bank on at this stage.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Amendola had 85 targets in ‘17 and ‘15, I see no reason why that isn’t the bottom for Matthews (assuming health) because a) he’s the only other slot WR besides Edelman and b) he’s the most physically talented WR besides Patterson.
And every time somebody brings up injuries, but the point I'm trying to get across is that you are essentially banking on injuries because without injuries I don't think anyone can project a healthy number of targets for Matthews.
Because you would be assuming a lack of health for other players. Amendola doesn't get those 85 targets if Edelman is healthy (missed 7 games in '15 and 16 games in '17).
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Did Matthews kick your dog? I literally used the most conservative estimate possible. How many seasons has Edelman stayed healthy?
Edit: Edelman and Matthews are the only two WR’s to have 800 yards and play in 14 or more games in 3 of the last 4 season.
Edit 2: I was looking at Edelman’s last 4 seasons since 2016. He only played 9 games in 2015. In any case, the Patriots WR’s (including Gronk) are not the picture of durability.
Last edited by a moderator:
