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Joseph Addai Injury Update (1 Viewer)

scrumptrulescent said:
I think the biggest issue with Brown is his blitz pickup. I don't think that Peyton trusts him and for good reason. Yes, he led the NCAA in rushing at UCONN, but that was UCONN. I haven't seen anything at the pro level to indicate he's going to be a starting RB going forward. I think with what the Colts do with Addai being a free agent after this season will be telling.
The biggest issue is that he just can't stay healthy. I think the whole "he can't pick up the blitz" excuse is overused and possibly untrue. Brown has shown he is unreliable in one area and that is staying on the field. And I don't what you've been watching but I've seen enough to lead me to believe that Brown can be a solid, productive back if he is able to take the field consistently and wins the right to the opportunity. Hopefully the next few games will show us what direction he is going.
For the Colts sake, I hope Brown is a great RB. From what I've seen, he's the typical guy who plays well at a small school, but isn't that great at the pro level. He is supposed to be a smart kid, but has a had a very difficult time picking up the Colts offense. He has very good speed, but doesn't seem to read plays well, or hit the right hole most of the time. He's a terrible pass blocker, and I think that's more just not recognizing what's going on on the field than a lack of willingness. Perhaps with more exposure on the field, he'll learn. But right now I wouldn't pin my hopes on him.
Small school? They played solid D1 programs. Look at his eye popping numbers in 2008. 2008 stats
8/28 Hofstra W 35-3 23 146 6.3 32 4 1 7 7.0 7 0 0 0

9/6 @Temple W 12-9 36 214 5.9 19 1 2 5 2.5 3 0 0 0

9/13 Virginia W 45-10 20 206 10.3 63 3 5 32 6.4 19 0 0 0

9/19 Baylor W 31-28 34 150 4.4 14 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0

9/26 @Louisville W 26-21 33 190 5.8 30 1 1 6 6.0 6 0 0 0

10/4 @North Carolina L 38-12 33 161 4.9 40 1 5 4 0.8 9 0 0 0

10/18 @Rutgers L 12-10 27 107 4.0 30 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0

10/25 Cincinnati W 40-16 29 150 5.2 53 2 4 58 14.5 27 0 0 0

11/1 West Virginia L 35-13 19 82 4.3 21 1 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 0

11/15 @Syracuse W 39-14 22 131 6.0 49 1 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 0

11/23 @South Florida L 17-13 28 96 3.4 13 0 1 11 11.0 11 0 0 0

12/6 Pittsburgh L 34-10 34 189 5.6 57 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Not exactly like he's playing in the SEC? Small school, lower tiered conference. Nice stats, but the speed and physicality in the NFL is way beyond what he saw in these games. How many first round defensive players did he see in those games? A handful, maybe? How many guys from those teams are pro-bowl defenders in the NFL.And the notion that they drafted him to replace Addai seems to be more along the mindset of each team having a single RB like in the 90's. It seems like a lot to select a RB in the first round to be part of a RBBC but we see more and more teams going the committee route.

As I said in the Hart thread. It all comes down to who pass protects better. If it's Andre Brown, Donald Brown or Mike Hart. The better pass protector will get the most touches. If Donald Brown is twice the runner Hart is but gets Manning killed, the Colts will go with half the runner and an upright Manning all day long. Brown has had some pass protection issues in the past. If those are resolved, he will probably be the guy. But if they aren't, doesn't matter what his draft pedigree is, if he can't keep Manning upright he can play special teams...

 
And the notion that they drafted him to replace Addai seems to be more along the mindset of each team having a single RB like in the 90's. It seems like a lot to select a RB in the first round to be part of a RBBC but we see more and more teams going the committee route.
I think it also is because Addai will be a free agent after this season and will turn 28 in 2011. It's very possible the Colts drafted Brown with the belief that they would part ways with Addai after this season and turn the backfield over to Brown and whoever else was on the roster.The problem with that plan is that Brown has been injury prone and, in my opinion, he has looked inferior to Addai this season and last. But this could be the opportunity Brown has needed to show he can be the lead back. If Addai does miss extended time and Brown looks good, I think the Colts will be in a stronger position to let Addai walk and make Brown the starter next season. We'll see how it plays out.I agree, though, that pass protection is huge here and that's one of the reasons why Addai has remained the starter. He is very good in pass protection and Manning trusts him. If Brown falters then I agree the Colts will give Hart a shot and maybe even Andre Brown if it comes to that. They won't let anything come between them and a healthy Peyton Manning.
 
Not exactly like he's playing in the SEC? Small school, lower tiered conference. Nice stats, but the speed and physicality in the NFL is way beyond what he saw in these games. How many first round defensive players did he see in those games? A handful, maybe? How many guys from those teams are pro-bowl defenders in the NFL.

And the notion that they drafted him to replace Addai seems to be more along the mindset of each team having a single RB like in the 90's. It seems like a lot to select a RB in the first round to be part of a RBBC but we see more and more teams going the committee route.

As I said in the Hart thread. It all comes down to who pass protects better. If it's Andre Brown, Donald Brown or Mike Hart. The better pass protector will get the most touches. If Donald Brown is twice the runner Hart is but gets Manning killed, the Colts will go with half the runner and an upright Manning all day long. Brown has had some pass protection issues in the past. If those are resolved, he will probably be the guy. But if they aren't, doesn't matter what his draft pedigree is, if he can't keep Manning upright he can play special teams...

I do not think it's reasonable to knock Brown for not playing SEC-type competition in college. The Big East has produced several stud fantasy backs in the past two years including Ray Rice and LaSean McCoy. Steve Slaton [2008] and Michael Bush [limited flashes] are other Big East running backs who have contributed to fantasy squads. As a Brown owner in a couple leagues I am not certain if he will ever live up to his first round pedigree or if injuries and pass-blocking will hamper him throughout his career, but simply saying he played in the Big East isn't a valid knock against him.

 
And the notion that they drafted him to replace Addai seems to be more along the mindset of each team having a single RB like in the 90's. It seems like a lot to select a RB in the first round to be part of a RBBC but we see more and more teams going the committee route.
I think it also is because Addai will be a free agent after this season and will turn 28 in 2011. It's very possible the Colts drafted Brown with the belief that they would part ways with Addai after this season and turn the backfield over to Brown and whoever else was on the roster.The problem with that plan is that Brown has been injury prone and, in my opinion, he has looked inferior to Addai this season and last. But this could be the opportunity Brown has needed to show he can be the lead back. If Addai does miss extended time and Brown looks good, I think the Colts will be in a stronger position to let Addai walk and make Brown the starter next season. We'll see how it plays out.I agree, though, that pass protection is huge here and that's one of the reasons why Addai has remained the starter. He is very good in pass protection and Manning trusts him. If Brown falters then I agree the Colts will give Hart a shot and maybe even Andre Brown if it comes to that. They won't let anything come between them and a healthy Peyton Manning.
I agree that they have a decision to make on Addai and the Colts are a team that is perfectly fine with dumping a guy in his prime at RB. They let Faulk go for a song and he tore it up in St. Louis. They let Edge go when he looked like he had plenty left in the tank. Had he not gone to the Cardinals, he might've looked better than what he did.And this is the perfect opportunity for the Colts to give Brown one last extended road test. I'm not sure he would've gotten one without an injury to Addai, so from a player personnel perspective, this give the Colts an opportunity to see if Brown is better than what he's shown the last two years. If he does well, I see a RBBC when Addai gets back. No need to run the guy into the ground. Then they let Addai go when his contact is up, draft a RB in the middle rounds to back up/split carries (to some degree) with Brown and avoid the big signing bonus on a 28 YO RB. A lot of Fantasy Football and the NFL is about opportunity. Brown will be given that opportunity. If he stays healthy and if he keeps Manning upright, he should be fine. But those are both 'ifs' he has had problems with in the past. But he will get the opportunity.
 
I agree it's a pretty big roll of the dice with Brown based on how little he's shown thus far and how prone to injury he's been. It could be put up or shut up time for him should he return from the bye healthy and the starter if Addai is out as expected. I also agree that if Brown does well we could be looking at a RBBC situation similar to the Addai/Rhodes duo we saw during the Colts' Super Bowl season though I would anticipate Addai getting the majority of touches if he can stay healthy.

 
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I do not think it's reasonable to knock Brown for not playing SEC-type competition in college. The Big East has produced several stud fantasy backs in the past two years including Ray Rice and LaSean McCoy. Steve Slaton [2008] and Michael Bush [limited flashes] are other Big East running backs who have contributed to fantasy squads. As a Brown owner in a couple leagues I am not certain if he will ever live up to his first round pedigree or if injuries and pass-blocking will hamper him throughout his career, but simply saying he played in the Big East isn't a valid knock against him.
Exceptions to rules don't make rules moot. And besides, are you really saying Steve Slaton and Michael Bush stud RBs? The only one on that list I'd call a good NFL RB is Ray Rice.
 
I do not think it's reasonable to knock Brown for not playing SEC-type competition in college. The Big East has produced several stud fantasy backs in the past two years including Ray Rice and LaSean McCoy. Steve Slaton [2008] and Michael Bush [limited flashes] are other Big East running backs who have contributed to fantasy squads. As a Brown owner in a couple leagues I am not certain if he will ever live up to his first round pedigree or if injuries and pass-blocking will hamper him throughout his career, but simply saying he played in the Big East isn't a valid knock against him.
I'm not sure that list of RB's is who I would use to justify the merits of Big East RB's. Ray Rice had a single monster year but has not been nearly as good this year. McCoy is doing well, but the book is still out. Slaton? I'm a huge slaton fan and wouldn't use him in this argument. I'm a big Bush fan too. But we haven't seen all that much from him. I'm not saying that we should disregard Big East RB's. But they don't seem to have the same success rates as guys from the bigger conferences who have to face better programs with solid players at all positions because they are stacked with talent. A lot of those teams he played had some very obvious weaknesses at certain areas on D. Maybe the left side of the D-Line is weak, or the line backing crew is soft, or the secondary is horrible at tackling. Coaches can pound it at that weakness all game. That doesn't happen as much against Alabama or Texas.

Like I said, we can't disregard the guy because of his school. Lots of guys went to small schools and tore it up, but lots more didn't, And this guy hasn't done much to show he's in the former group. Like I said, he's going to get his opportunity. All he has to do is make something with it....

 
I agree that they have a decision to make on Addai and the Colts are a team that is perfectly fine with dumping a guy in his prime at RB. They let Faulk go for a song and he tore it up in St. Louis. They let Edge go when he looked like he had plenty left in the tank. Had he not gone to the Cardinals, he might've looked better than what he did.

And this is the perfect opportunity for the Colts to give Brown one last extended road test. I'm not sure he would've gotten one without an injury to Addai, so from a player personnel perspective, this give the Colts an opportunity to see if Brown is better than what he's shown the last two years. If he does well, I see a RBBC when Addai gets back. No need to run the guy into the ground. Then they let Addai go when his contact is up, draft a RB in the middle rounds to back up/split carries (to some degree) with Brown and avoid the big signing bonus on a 28 YO RB.

A lot of Fantasy Football and the NFL is about opportunity. Brown will be given that opportunity. If he stays healthy and if he keeps Manning upright, he should be fine. But those are both 'ifs' he has had problems with in the past. But he will get the opportunity.
When the Colts drafted Brown, Polian said it was a move merited by the need for teams to run two back systems. I don't think that will change.As for them resigning or not resigning Addai, both Faulk and Edge are horrible examples. Faulk wasn't going to be an FA at the end of the season, he had two years left on his contract, but he was a malcontent and it was affecting the team. Edge they let walk, but he had worn down after the knee surgery, and was going to command more money than he was worth. Addai will likely be pretty cheap to resign.

ETA link about Faulk being a malcontent, since I'm sure someone will pop on here to try to say I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 
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I do not think it's reasonable to knock Brown for not playing SEC-type competition in college. The Big East has produced several stud fantasy backs in the past two years including Ray Rice and LaSean McCoy. Steve Slaton [2008] and Michael Bush [limited flashes] are other Big East running backs who have contributed to fantasy squads. As a Brown owner in a couple leagues I am not certain if he will ever live up to his first round pedigree or if injuries and pass-blocking will hamper him throughout his career, but simply saying he played in the Big East isn't a valid knock against him.
Exceptions to rules don't make rules moot. And besides, are you really saying Steve Slaton and Michael Bush stud RBs? The only one on that list I'd call a good NFL RB is Ray Rice.
What exactly is the rule? I'm saying the Big East has produced good RBs despite the fact the conference doesn't have any Floridas, Georgias, or Alabamas in it. I didn't say Slaton and Bush were stud RBs; I said they contributed to fantasy squads. My reply was based on TheFanatic knocking Brown for playing against teams where "the speed and physicality in the NFL is way beyond what he saw in [big East] games". My point is that Rice and McCoy had no problem adapting from the speed and physicality they saw in the Big East to the NFL so it would be silly to completely dismiss Brown's college production because of his conference.
 
8/28 Hofstra W 35-3 23 146 6.3 32 4 1 7 7.0 7 0 0 09/6 @Temple W 12-9 36 214 5.9 19 1 2 5 2.5 3 0 0 09/13 Virginia W 45-10 20 206 10.3 63 3 5 32 6.4 19 0 0 09/19 Baylor W 31-28 34 150 4.4 14 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 09/26 @Louisville W 26-21 33 190 5.8 30 1 1 6 6.0 6 0 0 010/4 @North Carolina L 38-12 33 161 4.9 40 1 5 4 0.8 9 0 0 010/18 @Rutgers L 12-10 27 107 4.0 30 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 010/25 Cincinnati W 40-16 29 150 5.2 53 2 4 58 14.5 27 0 0 011/1 West Virginia L 35-13 19 82 4.3 21 1 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 011/15 @Syracuse W 39-14 22 131 6.0 49 1 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 011/23 @South Florida L 17-13 28 96 3.4 13 0 1 11 11.0 11 0 0 012/6 Pittsburgh L 34-10 34 189 5.6 57 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Not exactly like he's playing in the SEC? Small school, lower tiered conference. Nice stats, but the speed and physicality in the NFL is way beyond what he saw in these games. How many first round defensive players did he see in those games? A handful, maybe? How many guys from those teams are pro-bowl defenders in the NFL.And the notion that they drafted him to replace Addai seems to be more along the mindset of each team having a single RB like in the 90's. It seems like a lot to select a RB in the first round to be part of a RBBC but we see more and more teams going the committee route. As I said in the Hart thread. It all comes down to who pass protects better. If it's Andre Brown, Donald Brown or Mike Hart. The better pass protector will get the most touches. If Donald Brown is twice the runner Hart is but gets Manning killed, the Colts will go with half the runner and an upright Manning all day long. Brown has had some pass protection issues in the past. If those are resolved, he will probably be the guy. But if they aren't, doesn't matter what his draft pedigree is, if he can't keep Manning upright he can play special teams...
You gloss over 189 yards against Pitt and 150 against Cinn. Those are not second tier teams. Weak argument.Pass protection? I challenge you to find one quote this year from the HC or Manning that suggests he is still having problems with pass protection. This thing keeps getting regurgitated because Brown haters have nothing else to say.
 
I do not think it's reasonable to knock Brown for not playing SEC-type competition in college. The Big East has produced several stud fantasy backs in the past two years including Ray Rice and LaSean McCoy. Steve Slaton [2008] and Michael Bush [limited flashes] are other Big East running backs who have contributed to fantasy squads. As a Brown owner in a couple leagues I am not certain if he will ever live up to his first round pedigree or if injuries and pass-blocking will hamper him throughout his career, but simply saying he played in the Big East isn't a valid knock against him.
Exceptions to rules don't make rules moot. And besides, are you really saying Steve Slaton and Michael Bush stud RBs? The only one on that list I'd call a good NFL RB is Ray Rice.
What exactly is the rule? I'm saying the Big East has produced good RBs despite the fact the conference doesn't have any Floridas, Georgias, or Alabamas in it. I didn't say Slaton and Bush were stud RBs; I said they contributed to fantasy squads. My reply was based on TheFanatic knocking Brown for playing against teams where "the speed and physicality in the NFL is way beyond what he saw in [big East] games". My point is that Rice and McCoy had no problem adapting from the speed and physicality they saw in the Big East to the NFL so it would be silly to completely dismiss Brown's college production because of his conference.
Didn't Ray Rice come from the Big East too? Rutgers?
 
I do not think it's reasonable to knock Brown for not playing SEC-type competition in college. The Big East has produced several stud fantasy backs in the past two years including Ray Rice and LaSean McCoy. Steve Slaton [2008] and Michael Bush [limited flashes] are other Big East running backs who have contributed to fantasy squads. As a Brown owner in a couple leagues I am not certain if he will ever live up to his first round pedigree or if injuries and pass-blocking will hamper him throughout his career, but simply saying he played in the Big East isn't a valid knock against him.
Exceptions to rules don't make rules moot. And besides, are you really saying Steve Slaton and Michael Bush stud RBs? The only one on that list I'd call a good NFL RB is Ray Rice.
Aww common Switz. You know I'll ride sidecar with you most days but dismissing McCoy? He's a pretty damn good (and tough) RB. I'd say LeSean's pretty close to "stud" status if he already there. He's pretty much had a better year than Rice to boot. And no, I don't think he is better than Rice nor do I think he'll outpoint him when all is said and done in 2010.
 
Getting back on track he's something I found on his injury.

http://www.coltzilla.com/2010-regular-seas...m-joseph-addai/

Oct. 21st

Joseph Addai had a career day last Sunday, one that Bill Polian declared maybe his best performance ever, if not statistically. He also suffered what appeared to be a very serious injury in the game when Redskins linebacker London Fletcher buried the crown of his helmet into Addai’s left shoulder as Addai was already being brought to the ground on a short run.

Today, we learned from Indianapolis Star writer Phil B. Wilson that Joe suffered nerve damage to the point where he was unable to raise his left arm on Sunday night. Three days later, he was able to raise his arm to just about shoulder height. Addai’s symptoms are consistent with a brachial plexus injury, the same injury that cost RB Devin Moore his season. The brachial plexus is a bundle of nerves that emanates from the neck and pass through the armpit, and down the shoulder, arm and hand. Damage to any of these nerves can result in pain, numbness, tingling, and loss of function to those areas.

A couple pieces of good news here – first, as Addai reported himself, nothing is broken. When the news came out yesterday from Bill Polian that Addai’s shoulder was not separated, I immediately assumed his collarbone must have been broken. That would have been a 10-12 week injury, putting him on the outside tolerance for remaining on the active roster.

The other “good” news is that it appears Addai’s nerves are returning to function, albeit a bit slowly. Normally a “stinger” will affect the athlete for no more than an hour. But when the symptoms last longer – as is the case with Addai – it is likely that more serious damage has been done. Brachial plexus injuries are classified as first through fifth degree, depending on severity. A first degree injury is when only the insulation around the nerve is damaged. A second through fifth degree injury denotes increasing damage, with fifth being a complete severing of the nerve.

Clearly the damage was more than a first degree “stinger.” On the other hand, were any nerves severed, it seems unlikely that Addai would regain much function, if any. Furthermore, he likely would have undergone surgery as soon as the damage was detected. The fact that he did not immediately have surgery is encouraging in a way, but the damage must have been extensive for him to claim a potential four-to-five week return.

NFL reporter Jason LaCanfora tweeted on Wednesday evening that Addai would seek a second opinion on his shoulder. Usually an athlete seeks a second opinion to try to return to play more quickly. In this case, however, he may be seeking a second opinion as to whether any nerve was severed, thereby inhibiting his ability to fully recover.

 
Getting back on track he's something I found on his injury.

http://www.coltzilla.com/2010-regular-seas...m-joseph-addai/

Oct. 21st

Joseph Addai had a career day last Sunday, one that Bill Polian declared maybe his best performance ever, if not statistically. He also suffered what appeared to be a very serious injury in the game when Redskins linebacker London Fletcher buried the crown of his helmet into Addai’s left shoulder as Addai was already being brought to the ground on a short run.

Today, we learned from Indianapolis Star writer Phil B. Wilson that Joe suffered nerve damage to the point where he was unable to raise his left arm on Sunday night. Three days later, he was able to raise his arm to just about shoulder height. Addai’s symptoms are consistent with a brachial plexus injury, the same injury that cost RB Devin Moore his season. The brachial plexus is a bundle of nerves that emanates from the neck and pass through the armpit, and down the shoulder, arm and hand. Damage to any of these nerves can result in pain, numbness, tingling, and loss of function to those areas.

A couple pieces of good news here – first, as Addai reported himself, nothing is broken. When the news came out yesterday from Bill Polian that Addai’s shoulder was not separated, I immediately assumed his collarbone must have been broken. That would have been a 10-12 week injury, putting him on the outside tolerance for remaining on the active roster.

The other “good” news is that it appears Addai’s nerves are returning to function, albeit a bit slowly. Normally a “stinger” will affect the athlete for no more than an hour. But when the symptoms last longer – as is the case with Addai – it is likely that more serious damage has been done. Brachial plexus injuries are classified as first through fifth degree, depending on severity. A first degree injury is when only the insulation around the nerve is damaged. A second through fifth degree injury denotes increasing damage, with fifth being a complete severing of the nerve.

Clearly the damage was more than a first degree “stinger.” On the other hand, were any nerves severed, it seems unlikely that Addai would regain much function, if any. Furthermore, he likely would have undergone surgery as soon as the damage was detected. The fact that he did not immediately have surgery is encouraging in a way, but the damage must have been extensive for him to claim a potential four-to-five week return.

NFL reporter Jason LaCanfora tweeted on Wednesday evening that Addai would seek a second opinion on his shoulder. Usually an athlete seeks a second opinion to try to return to play more quickly. In this case, however, he may be seeking a second opinion as to whether any nerve was severed, thereby inhibiting his ability to fully recover.
great find.good work.how come every single thread about anything turns into a pissing match of sorts?

thread could be about how randy moss has long fingers and some idiots will spend the next week trying to prove how short and stubby they really are. its really annoying.stick to the topic at hand.

 
I do not think it's reasonable to knock Brown for not playing SEC-type competition in college. The Big East has produced several stud fantasy backs in the past two years including Ray Rice and LaSean McCoy. Steve Slaton [2008] and Michael Bush [limited flashes] are other Big East running backs who have contributed to fantasy squads. As a Brown owner in a couple leagues I am not certain if he will ever live up to his first round pedigree or if injuries and pass-blocking will hamper him throughout his career, but simply saying he played in the Big East isn't a valid knock against him.
Exceptions to rules don't make rules moot. And besides, are you really saying Steve Slaton and Michael Bush stud RBs? The only one on that list I'd call a good NFL RB is Ray Rice.
Aww common Switz. You know I'll ride sidecar with you most days but dismissing McCoy? He's a pretty damn good (and tough) RB. I'd say LeSean's pretty close to "stud" status if he already there. He's pretty much had a better year than Rice to boot. And no, I don't think he is better than Rice nor do I think he'll outpoint him when all is said and done in 2010.
Yeah, you're right, I sold McCoy short. My apologies ...
 
I do not think it's reasonable to knock Brown for not playing SEC-type competition in college. The Big East has produced several stud fantasy backs in the past two years including Ray Rice and LaSean McCoy. Steve Slaton [2008] and Michael Bush [limited flashes] are other Big East running backs who have contributed to fantasy squads. As a Brown owner in a couple leagues I am not certain if he will ever live up to his first round pedigree or if injuries and pass-blocking will hamper him throughout his career, but simply saying he played in the Big East isn't a valid knock against him.
Exceptions to rules don't make rules moot. And besides, are you really saying Steve Slaton and Michael Bush stud RBs? The only one on that list I'd call a good NFL RB is Ray Rice.
Aww common Switz. You know I'll ride sidecar with you most days but dismissing McCoy? He's a pretty damn good (and tough) RB. I'd say LeSean's pretty close to "stud" status if he already there. He's pretty much had a better year than Rice to boot. And no, I don't think he is better than Rice nor do I think he'll outpoint him when all is said and done in 2010.
Yeah, you're right, I sold McCoy short. My apologies ...
and here is the main culprit.
 
I do not think it's reasonable to knock Brown for not playing SEC-type competition in college. The Big East has produced several stud fantasy backs in the past two years including Ray Rice and LaSean McCoy. Steve Slaton [2008] and Michael Bush [limited flashes] are other Big East running backs who have contributed to fantasy squads. As a Brown owner in a couple leagues I am not certain if he will ever live up to his first round pedigree or if injuries and pass-blocking will hamper him throughout his career, but simply saying he played in the Big East isn't a valid knock against him.
Exceptions to rules don't make rules moot. And besides, are you really saying Steve Slaton and Michael Bush stud RBs? The only one on that list I'd call a good NFL RB is Ray Rice.
Aww common Switz. You know I'll ride sidecar with you most days but dismissing McCoy? He's a pretty damn good (and tough) RB. I'd say LeSean's pretty close to "stud" status if he already there. He's pretty much had a better year than Rice to boot. And no, I don't think he is better than Rice nor do I think he'll outpoint him when all is said and done in 2010.
Yeah, you're right, I sold McCoy short. My apologies ...
and here is the main culprit.
Disagree. Points were being made on Big East RBs. I get your point BB about staying on topic and not trying to create unnecessary 'whose balls are bigger' boasts, but this was a legitimate "What's really come out of the Big East as far as RBs go?" observation as it pertains to Donald Brown being a lead back.If you want to push the point and claim Switz (or me or anyone else) let this become a Brown thread as well as a Joseph Addai injury thread, you can certainly state your two cents but I think discussing Brown staking his claim while Addai rehabs an injury we are discussing is justified and I'm standing by that notion. That swings back to the question "Has the Big East sent any good backs into the NFL lately?" to which we ran a quick tangent identifying two upper tier NFL backs who emerged from that conference in the last three years.

Get over it - and the Switz bashing. No one was comparing schwantz sizes in your example.

 
8/28 Hofstra W 35-3 23 146 6.3 32 4 1 7 7.0 7 0 0 09/6 @Temple W 12-9 36 214 5.9 19 1 2 5 2.5 3 0 0 09/13 Virginia W 45-10 20 206 10.3 63 3 5 32 6.4 19 0 0 09/19 Baylor W 31-28 34 150 4.4 14 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 09/26 @Louisville W 26-21 33 190 5.8 30 1 1 6 6.0 6 0 0 010/4 @North Carolina L 38-12 33 161 4.9 40 1 5 4 0.8 9 0 0 010/18 @Rutgers L 12-10 27 107 4.0 30 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 010/25 Cincinnati W 40-16 29 150 5.2 53 2 4 58 14.5 27 0 0 011/1 West Virginia L 35-13 19 82 4.3 21 1 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 011/15 @Syracuse W 39-14 22 131 6.0 49 1 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 011/23 @South Florida L 17-13 28 96 3.4 13 0 1 11 11.0 11 0 0 012/6 Pittsburgh L 34-10 34 189 5.6 57 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Not exactly like he's playing in the SEC? Small school, lower tiered conference. Nice stats, but the speed and physicality in the NFL is way beyond what he saw in these games. How many first round defensive players did he see in those games? A handful, maybe? How many guys from those teams are pro-bowl defenders in the NFL.And the notion that they drafted him to replace Addai seems to be more along the mindset of each team having a single RB like in the 90's. It seems like a lot to select a RB in the first round to be part of a RBBC but we see more and more teams going the committee route. As I said in the Hart thread. It all comes down to who pass protects better. If it's Andre Brown, Donald Brown or Mike Hart. The better pass protector will get the most touches. If Donald Brown is twice the runner Hart is but gets Manning killed, the Colts will go with half the runner and an upright Manning all day long. Brown has had some pass protection issues in the past. If those are resolved, he will probably be the guy. But if they aren't, doesn't matter what his draft pedigree is, if he can't keep Manning upright he can play special teams...
You gloss over 189 yards against Pitt and 150 against Cinn. Those are not second tier teams. Weak argument.Pass protection? I challenge you to find one quote this year from the HC or Manning that suggests he is still having problems with pass protection. This thing keeps getting regurgitated because Brown haters have nothing else to say.
Two games doesn't make a career. Those were nice games, against good teams. Two games isn't enough IMO. And his performance as a pro so far have shown that to be the case.And I'll flip that coin back to you on the pass protection. Find me some quotes where the coach/team/QB/media praises Brown's pass protection. Just because they haven't ripped the guy about pass protection doesn't mean he's better at it. It doesn't mean anything. It could also mean that he hasn't been on the field enough to make any mistakes pass blocking.
 
TheFanatic said:
You gloss over 189 yards against Pitt and 150 against Cinn. Those are not second tier teams. Weak argument.

Pass protection? I challenge you to find one quote this year from the HC or Manning that suggests he is still having problems with pass protection. This thing keeps getting regurgitated because Brown haters have nothing else to say.
Two games doesn't make a career. Those were nice games, against good teams. Two games isn't enough IMO. And his performance as a pro so far have shown that to be the case.And I'll flip that coin back to you on the pass protection. Find me some quotes where the coach/team/QB/media praises Brown's pass protection. Just because they haven't ripped the guy about pass protection doesn't mean he's better at it. It doesn't mean anything. It could also mean that he hasn't been on the field enough to make any mistakes pass blocking.
Here is a quote by HC Caldwell:"“He's coming along, and is in the same mold as Joseph, I would say, in terms of having an understanding of the offense,” Caldwell said. “He's getting better, and he's also a guy who's multi-faceted as well. That's the great thing about them: you don't have to put them in the game and say, 'Oh, boy, he doesn't pass-protect very well. You have to be careful and only release him as a receiver.'

“Nor do we have to be concerned when they're in whether they can catch it and run with it. I think both of those guys give us a great mix.”

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=article7...83-383a29ab34bc

In other words, he doesn't worry about Pass Blocking. And Brown isn't one dimensional. Caldwell is explicitly comparing them and saying how similar Brown and Addai are.

 
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TheFanatic said:
You gloss over 189 yards against Pitt and 150 against Cinn. Those are not second tier teams. Weak argument.

Pass protection? I challenge you to find one quote this year from the HC or Manning that suggests he is still having problems with pass protection. This thing keeps getting regurgitated because Brown haters have nothing else to say.
Two games doesn't make a career. Those were nice games, against good teams. Two games isn't enough IMO. And his performance as a pro so far have shown that to be the case.And I'll flip that coin back to you on the pass protection. Find me some quotes where the coach/team/QB/media praises Brown's pass protection. Just because they haven't ripped the guy about pass protection doesn't mean he's better at it. It doesn't mean anything. It could also mean that he hasn't been on the field enough to make any mistakes pass blocking.
Here is a quote by HC Caldwell:"“He's coming along, and is in the same mold as Joseph, I would say, in terms of having an understanding of the offense,” Caldwell said. “He's getting better, and he's also a guy who's multi-faceted as well. That's the great thing about them: you don't have to put them in the game and say, 'Oh, boy, he doesn't pass-protect very well. You have to be careful and only release him as a receiver.'

“Nor do we have to be concerned when they're in whether they can catch it and run with it. I think both of those guys give us a great mix.”

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=article7...83-383a29ab34bc

In other words, he doesn't worry about Pass Blocking. And Brown isn't one dimensional. Caldwell is explicitly comparing them and saying how similar Brown and Addai are.
See, the one thing coaches can't do is telegraph what type of play will be ran when certain personnel is on the field. When Donald Brown is on the field it can't be that obvious that it will be a running play because the kid can't pass block. They're not going to openly rip the kid, and they have to play up the fact that he can pass block whether he can or not.

I don't know if you are advocating that Brown has always been a good pass blocker or that he was bad at it and is not better. If you are saying that he has always been a good pass blocker then you need to do a google search for Donald Brown and Pass Protection or Pass Blocking. He was not very good at pass blocking as a rookie and that may be a factor in why his YPC was so low. Maybe the D was more inclined to stop the run when he came in? I don't know.

Now, if you are saying that he was a bad pass blocker and is now much improved based on some coach speak, I have to ask, have you watched his games this year? I haven't seen as many Colts games as I saw last year, but how has he improved all that much with only 3 games played and a total of 25 touches? From that limited time you were able to determine he was much better at passing rushing?

Like I said many times in this thread and others, he's going to get the opportunity to prove he's the guy in the coming weeks. He's a better runner than Hart. If Hart gets the touches, I think that will tell us everything... Not saying he will or he won't.

 
does anyone have access to pro football focus? i think they have charted grades for blocking rbs so we could get a bit better perspective than selective memory and groupthink and coachspeak. not that pff is an unquestioned authority, just a perspective.

 
ESPN Colts Bye Week Report 10/22/10

Major issue: Injuries. We won’t even know a full list until Wednesday. Austin Collie is not going to play a week from Monday night against Houston, and Joseph Addai might not. :popcorn:
More of the same:
As for Addai, the Colts’ workhorse running back isn’t ruling out playing against Houston on Nov. 1. But he hasn’t ruled it in either.

“(The bye) is perfect timing. Not only for me, but for a lot of guys,” Addai said earlier this week. “A lot of guys got injured before the (Washington) game. And a lot of guys got injured during the game. It’s a perfect time (for the bye). I plan to take advantage of it and just try to get better.”
 
TheFanatic said:
You gloss over 189 yards against Pitt and 150 against Cinn. Those are not second tier teams. Weak argument.

Pass protection? I challenge you to find one quote this year from the HC or Manning that suggests he is still having problems with pass protection. This thing keeps getting regurgitated because Brown haters have nothing else to say.
Two games doesn't make a career. Those were nice games, against good teams. Two games isn't enough IMO. And his performance as a pro so far have shown that to be the case.And I'll flip that coin back to you on the pass protection. Find me some quotes where the coach/team/QB/media praises Brown's pass protection. Just because they haven't ripped the guy about pass protection doesn't mean he's better at it. It doesn't mean anything. It could also mean that he hasn't been on the field enough to make any mistakes pass blocking.
Here is a quote by HC Caldwell:"“He's coming along, and is in the same mold as Joseph, I would say, in terms of having an understanding of the offense,” Caldwell said. “He's getting better, and he's also a guy who's multi-faceted as well. That's the great thing about them: you don't have to put them in the game and say, 'Oh, boy, he doesn't pass-protect very well. You have to be careful and only release him as a receiver.'

“Nor do we have to be concerned when they're in whether they can catch it and run with it. I think both of those guys give us a great mix.”

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=article7...83-383a29ab34bc

In other words, he doesn't worry about Pass Blocking. And Brown isn't one dimensional. Caldwell is explicitly comparing them and saying how similar Brown and Addai are.
See, the one thing coaches can't do is telegraph what type of play will be ran when certain personnel is on the field. When Donald Brown is on the field it can't be that obvious that it will be a running play because the kid can't pass block. They're not going to openly rip the kid, and they have to play up the fact that he can pass block whether he can or not.

I don't know if you are advocating that Brown has always been a good pass blocker or that he was bad at it and is not better. If you are saying that he has always been a good pass blocker then you need to do a google search for Donald Brown and Pass Protection or Pass Blocking. He was not very good at pass blocking as a rookie and that may be a factor in why his YPC was so low. Maybe the D was more inclined to stop the run when he came in? I don't know.

Now, if you are saying that he was a bad pass blocker and is now much improved based on some coach speak, I have to ask, have you watched his games this year? I haven't seen as many Colts games as I saw last year, but how has he improved all that much with only 3 games played and a total of 25 touches? From that limited time you were able to determine he was much better at passing rushing?

Like I said many times in this thread and others, he's going to get the opportunity to prove he's the guy in the coming weeks. He's a better runner than Hart. If Hart gets the touches, I think that will tell us everything... Not saying he will or he won't.
No offense, but you are not being very reasonable. First, I ask you to provide evidence of anyone on the team or coaching staff saying Brown can't block this year--you can't. You challenge me to do the opposite. I do, and then you basically say it's "coach speak."???? That's weak. Then you question if I have seen him play this year? Yes, yes I have. And I didn't see any blocking issues, certainly no worse than Addai. I think they both gave up a sack in one game. It happens. No, I wasn't saying he was always a great blocker. Get up to speed. I said that people who don't like him keep harping on a 2009 story line--and how many rookies DO block well? Almost none. So, he needed to improve that part of his game and he did. Move on.

Now we need to see if he can stay healthy and what he can do with 20 carries in a game. He may bust out yet, but to say that he can't block and Hart is just as likely to take over is complete horse hookey.

 
No offense, but you are not being very reasonable. First, I ask you to provide evidence of anyone on the team or coaching staff saying Brown can't block this year--you can't. You challenge me to do the opposite. I do, and then you basically say it's "coach speak."???? That's weak. Then you question if I have seen him play this year? Yes, yes I have. And I didn't see any blocking issues, certainly no worse than Addai. I think they both gave up a sack in one game. It happens.
Honestly, if Brown couldn't pass block do you really think that a coach would admit that to the media? Did you do the google search? Everyone said he sucked at pass blocking in 2009. Everyone but the coaches.
No, I wasn't saying he was always a great blocker. Get up to speed. I said that people who don't like him keep harping on a 2009 story line--and how many rookies DO block well? Almost none. So, he needed to improve that part of his game and he did. Move on.
So, in 2009 he sucked as a pass blocker, this you freely admit, and in the very limited action he's had in 2010 you say his pass blocking is great? He has played in 3 games. He has 23 carries and two catches. From that sample you, contrary to what everyone else is saying, are telling me the kid figured it out? Must've been one helluva training camp.Oh, and lots of rookie RB's can pass block well. Don't have to go very far from Brown on the Colts roster to see one who could when he was a rookie. If not many rookie RB's pass block well, we wouldn't see nearly every year a rookie RB crack the top 10. This is a QB driven league. Can't pass block, can't play.
Now we need to see if he can stay healthy and what he can do with 20 carries in a game. He may bust out yet, but to say that he can't block and Hart is just as likely to take over is complete horse hookey.
If you don't agree with the logic that if Hart is a really good pass blocker (I don't know this to be the case, just stating it for the argument) and Brown is a horrible one (still up in the air according to you, so I'm not stating this as a certainty either), that the Colts will go with the inferior RB with better pass blocking skills then you are so far removed from the actual NFL from playing fantasy football that you have lost touch with the reality of the NFL. I don't care about the pedigree, the measurables, and the round taken, and neither do the Colts. If a RB can't keep Peyton Manning upright, that RB doesn't play. End of story. Peyton will bench the kid himself. It's not Donald Brown and the Colts playing Matt Schaub and the Texans on Monday night next week. Manning isn't just the face of the Colts, he's probably the face of the NFL. I'm done arguing about this with you. You have your belief, and I have mine. That's all we can do. You need your guy to stay healthy long enough to prove the rest of the world, who sees a mediocre pass blocker at best, wrong. Good luck with that... I hope I'm wrong. It would be a shame if the kid was a bust...
 
We can agree Fanatic on your last statement. And that's about it. I look forward to seeing what he can do in extended action. If he can't play, we'll know after a couple of weeks of him starting. If he can, we'll know that too.

 
We can agree Fanatic on your last statement. And that's about it. I look forward to seeing what he can do in extended action. If he can't play, we'll know after a couple of weeks of him starting. If he can, we'll know that too.
Indeed. The silver lining in Addai going down is the FO finding out what Brown can do. BRown will get that very precious thing called opportunity. Good luck to him...
 
We can agree Fanatic on your last statement. And that's about it. I look forward to seeing what he can do in extended action. If he can't play, we'll know after a couple of weeks of him starting. If he can, we'll know that too.
Indeed. The silver lining in Addai going down is the FO finding out what Brown can do. BRown will get that very precious thing called opportunity. Good luck to him...
Agreed. I want to know if he really is good or not so I can free up roster space if he isn't.
 
We can agree Fanatic on your last statement. And that's about it. I look forward to seeing what he can do in extended action. If he can't play, we'll know after a couple of weeks of him starting. If he can, we'll know that too.
Indeed. The silver lining in Addai going down is the FO finding out what Brown can do. BRown will get that very precious thing called opportunity. Good luck to him...
Agreed. I want to know if he really is good or not so I can free up roster space if he isn't.
I think the Colts are just as anxious to see what Brown can do as his fantasy owners. If he performs well, that could make it easier for them to let Addai go after this season. If he stinks it up and/or gets hurt again then re-signing Addai becomes a higher priority. Also, Clayton was just on ESPN and said Addai will be out "a couple weeks." At this point I'm not sure anyone knows how long he'll be out. It could be a couple weeks, it could be 4-5 per Addai's own timetable, it could be "several weeks" as NFL Network reported or it could be "awhile" which RotoWorld reported and awhile could mean just about anything.
 
packersfan said:
az_prof said:
TheFanatic said:
az_prof said:
We can agree Fanatic on your last statement. And that's about it. I look forward to seeing what he can do in extended action. If he can't play, we'll know after a couple of weeks of him starting. If he can, we'll know that too.
Indeed. The silver lining in Addai going down is the FO finding out what Brown can do. BRown will get that very precious thing called opportunity. Good luck to him...
Agreed. I want to know if he really is good or not so I can free up roster space if he isn't.
I think the Colts are just as anxious to see what Brown can do as his fantasy owners. If he performs well, that could make it easier for them to let Addai go after this season. If he stinks it up and/or gets hurt again then re-signing Addai becomes a higher priority. Also, Clayton was just on ESPN and said Addai will be out "a couple weeks." At this point I'm not sure anyone knows how long he'll be out. It could be a couple weeks, it could be 4-5 per Addai's own timetable, it could be "several weeks" as NFL Network reported or it could be "awhile" which RotoWorld reported and awhile could mean just about anything.
"awhile", "couple" and "several" weeks. All sounds like the 4-5 weeks Addai himself threw out there. Unfortunately for me, I am an Addai owner who could not trade for Brown before Addai went down, and now the Brown owner in my league wants the moon and the stars for him.
 
FWIW -

Tight end Dallas Clark was placed on the season-ending injured reserve list with a wrist injury. Wide receiver Austin Collie (thumb surgery), running back Joseph Addai (nerve damage in his left shoulder) and defensive tackle Antonio Johnson (knee surgery) are out indefinitely. Also, punter Pat McAfee will serve a one-game team-imposed suspension for his arrest on public intoxication charges.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20101025/S...news|text|Colts

 
Beat writer speculation via RotoWorld:

The Indianapolis Star's Mike Chappell "doubts" that Joseph Addai (shoulder) will be healthy enough to play Monday against the Texans.

"The worst thing to do would be to put Addai back out there before the shoulder is fully healed," said Chappell. "The team wants him available for the long haul." Chappell hasn't heard from Addai since last week, so he's merely reading tea leaves here. We agree, however, that the Colts won't put Addai at risk if there's a chance he re-injured the shoulder.

Source: Indianapolis Star

Related: Mike Hart, Donald Brown

 
Beat writer speculation via RotoWorld:The Indianapolis Star's Mike Chappell "doubts" that Joseph Addai (shoulder) will be healthy enough to play Monday against the Texans."The worst thing to do would be to put Addai back out there before the shoulder is fully healed," said Chappell. "The team wants him available for the long haul." Chappell hasn't heard from Addai since last week, so he's merely reading tea leaves here. We agree, however, that the Colts won't put Addai at risk if there's a chance he re-injured the shoulder.Source: Indianapolis StarRelated: Mike Hart, Donald Brown
I understand if he's able to suit up, he will. But they'll only play him if necessary. The game against Houston is extremely important for the Colts. That being said, he won't be on the field IMO unless the Colts are driving to win in the final two minutes.
 
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Addai comment from Mort in his chat today:

Larry (Chicago)

Hey Mort, who do you think starts at RB for the Colts Monday night, Addai or Brown?

Chris Mortensen (11:25 AM)

Addai's not ready to play.

 
Addai comment from Mort in his chat today:Larry (Chicago)Hey Mort, who do you think starts at RB for the Colts Monday night, Addai or Brown?Chris Mortensen (11:25 AM)Addai's not ready to play.
Is Brown ready to go? Or will it be a big dose of Hart on Monday night?
 
#Colts coach Caldwell on Addai: "His tolerance of pain is unusual. He can turn it around in a moment's notice. It's a day to day situation." about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
-John Oeser, Indy Football Report via Twitter
 
#Colts coach Caldwell on Addai: "His tolerance of pain is unusual. He can turn it around in a moment's notice. It's a day to day situation."

about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
-John Oeser, Indy Football Report via Twitter
More on this front:
"I'm not real sure," Caldwell said of Addai. "He's a guy whose tolerance for pain is unusual. He's one of those guys who can turn it around in a moment's notice and he's up and ready to go. It's kind of a day-to-day situation. If he doesn't go, obviously Mike Hart has to be the guy to step it up."
 
#Colts coach Caldwell on Addai: "His tolerance of pain is unusual. He can turn it around in a moment's notice. It's a day to day situation."

about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
-John Oeser, Indy Football Report via Twitter
More on this front:
"I'm not real sure," Caldwell said of Addai. "He's a guy whose tolerance for pain is unusual. He's one of those guys who can turn it around in a moment's notice and he's up and ready to go. It's kind of a day-to-day situation. If he doesn't go, obviously Mike Hart has to be the guy to step it up."
My concern about Addai is that this is going to linger the rest of the season. I can see addai taking a hard hit to the shoulder and coming out for the rest of the game.

 
My concern about Addai is that this is going to linger the rest of the season. I can see addai taking a hard hit to the shoulder and coming out for the rest of the game.
Yeah, no doubt. Pinched nerves are easy to irritate, and I'd imagine it could become chronic.
 
To resolve the Donald Brown/Hart debate:

I would say that is pretty convincing evidence. Brown looked horrendous last night:

Hart:

12 carries for 84 yards and a 7.0 YPC

3 catches for 19 yards

Brown:

9 carries for 16 yards and a 1.8 YPC

2 catches for 13 yards

On the goal line it was Brown's series to be in, but he was yanked after the timeout for Hart, who almost, by will (or heart) along punched it in after getting wrapped up at the line.

Not sure if Brown was 100% though. He might've played hurt in order to not let Hart run away with the backup role. I don't know...

 
The Colts need to re-sign Addai in my opinion and go with Addai and Hart next season. Brown continues to be a bust. He got plenty of chances last night, including a chance to score from the 2, but ran soft and showed no burst. Hart (pun intended) was all heart. He ran hard, made positive yardage and had good burst when he got into the open field. He was very impressive.

But if Addai and Hart are both out, the Colts' running game is in serious trouble.

 

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