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Judge to Decide HS Football Game after Ref Blunder (1 Viewer)

It's only a bad precedent if the judge rules on the merits.  I would bet that the judge simply rules that she lacks jurisdiction.  Just because she allows a hearing doesn't mean that she'll reach the merits. 

 
Godsbrother said:
Sucks for them but the game has been logged and should remain final.  Doing anything else will result in mayhem.

Not nearly as bad but there was a HS playoff game in Pittsburgh where a team felt the calls were one-sided and the game was rigged.  Parents are demanding the game be replayed:

http://www.wtae.com/article/mckeesport-high-football-fans-sign-petition-say-championship-game-was-rigged/8350005
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At the end of the video the school's own AD admits the roughing the kicker call was correct :lmao: ... but he "appreciates" the petition.

 
I would love to see the pleadings.  What irreparable harm requiring an injunction are they alleging?  Seems like the ruling should be: it's just a game.

 
Parents ruin youth sports. The judge should laugh at them and just walk away. And the second linked story is even worse. Sorry your kid lost. In life.

 
Thorn said:
I would love to see the pleadings.  What irreparable harm requiring an injunction are they alleging?  Seems like the ruling should be: it's just a game.
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The "winning" team is set to play in the final.  The harm, however insignificant, would certainly be irreparable at that point, as you can't then send the challenging team to play a game that's already been decided. 

 
The Ref said:
Sadly I see people who have never picked up a whistle in their life make snide comments about the state of officiating.
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I was a pretty good basketball player in high school and in college I hung out at the gym a lot shooting hoops and played intramural hoops for my frat.   One day they needed a ref for a top level intramural game.   I played in that league and was asked to ref because they were short a ref and thought what the heck, I can do this.   Total nightmare.   Now I could see every foul in my vision as a player but as a ref it just didn't translate.   I was a god awful mess out there.   I couldn't wait for the game to end.   When it did both side hated me and one side was the rec center staff and college coaches.   

 
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The Ref said:
Just saying man.  If you think you can do a better job go for it.  There is a big shortage of semi-qualified officials in most sports.  
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I spoke nothing of the quality of work. I said many love to make the game about them. Walk into any gym, stadium or ball field across the country and you see it time and time again. 

 
I coached a 16-17 yo boys baseball team a long time ago that won the division and went to the city playoffs. In one of the playoff games an odd play occurred in which the umpire ruled an inning ending 3rd out and also nullified a run for the other team. The inning ending 3rd out was the correct call but nullifying the run was incorrect. We ending up winning the game by several runs (long time ago but for the sake of argument let's say 5-6 runs). The other team protested that the run should have counted but nothing changed the fact that it was an inning ending play in a game we won by 5 or 6 runs. At the protest hearing the other teams coach pleaded that his team was demoralized by the call and as a result it impacted their play the rest of the game. Therefore, he argued the game should be replayed from that point on. I thought that was ridicules and made sure to remind the committee of rule 7.04 "no replay of the game will be ordered unless in the opinion of the League President the violation adversely affected the protesting team’s chances of winning the game."

End of story they ruled in their favor, we replayed the game from that point on and lost. I was livid. I'm pretty sure 7.04 was not designed to include being "demoralized" over the loss of a run. Later in the day over a few beers another coach said maybe we should consider suing. Of course we didn't do anything and the "suggestion" was simply guys talking over beer. The ruling was horrible decision, I was really pissed off but at the end of the day it was just a game with teenage kids.

The call in the football game was obviously wrong and unfortunate but they need to let it go. 

 
Ok, about the original story:  If it's true that this was a CLEAR violation of the rules (or more accurately, a clear misinterpretation of the rules by the officials), and it is CLEAR that, if the officials had administered the rules correctly the losing team (Fenwick) should have won, then I don't understand:  Why hasn't the winning team (Plainfield) simply forfeited and said "you are correct, the wrong call was made and the game should have ended. We'll go ahead and forfeit."

Aren't we teaching high school kids that rules are important?  Yes, the rule apparently is that the official's word is final, so the game shouldn't be reversed.  So no reversal.  But shouldn't a forfeit be on the table?  What am I missing? 

 
The Ref said:
Just saying man.  If you think you can do a better job go for it.  There is a big shortage of semi-qualified officials in most sports.  
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I'm pretty sure that of all the people involved in a high school (and lower) sporting event, the refs are the most highly compensated (per hour) people involved.  Their performance absolutely deserves to be judged.

 
Sweet J said:
Ok, about the original story:  If it's true that this was a CLEAR violation of the rules (or more accurately, a clear misinterpretation of the rules by the officials), and it is CLEAR that, if the officials had administered the rules correctly the losing team (Fenwick) should have won, then I don't understand:  Why hasn't the winning team (Plainfield) simply forfeited and said "you are correct, the wrong call was made and the game should have ended. We'll go ahead and forfeit."

Aren't we teaching high school kids that rules are important?  Yes, the rule apparently is that the official's word is final, so the game shouldn't be reversed.  So no reversal.  But shouldn't a forfeit be on the table?  What am I missing? 
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Agree but that's apparently way too logical. Sounds like the other team is just saying "Hey, not our call man. We're just going with the flow."

They should forfeit. Unfortunately if they did I'm sure some parents of that team would rain fire down on the school admins that they just screwed their kids out of playing in a state championship.

 
Sweet J said:
Ok, about the original story:  If it's true that this was a CLEAR violation of the rules (or more accurately, a clear misinterpretation of the rules by the officials), and it is CLEAR that, if the officials had administered the rules correctly the losing team (Fenwick) should have won, then I don't understand:  Why hasn't the winning team (Plainfield) simply forfeited and said "you are correct, the wrong call was made and the game should have ended. We'll go ahead and forfeit."

Aren't we teaching high school kids that rules are important?  Yes, the rule apparently is that the official's word is final, so the game shouldn't be reversed.  So no reversal.  But shouldn't a forfeit be on the table?  What am I missing? 
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I'm sure the rationale is "hey, a lot of calls in that game didn't go our way, but we had to accept the calls on the field."

 
Bull Dozier said:
I'm pretty sure that of all the people involved in a high school (and lower) sporting event, the refs are the most highly compensated (per hour) people involved.  Their performance absolutely deserves to be judged.
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Yes.  I vacation with my all my Ref friends in the Hamptons before every football season.

Most guys get $35-$40 to wake up at 6:30 AM on a Sunday morning, drive to some town 20-40 minutes away, get yelled at by a bunch of parents and drive home.  

People who do this are greedy and deserve your judgement.

 
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Cjw_55106 said:
Sadly I see officials like this more than one would hope They just love to make the game about them. 
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:lmao:

In my experience, you are correct in maybe 1 out of 200 officials.  Not sure what you specific gripe is, but it is likely 1 of 2 things you are seeing that gives you this opinion.

1) The flamboyant official - (more common in basketball) what you see here is usually just officials trying to sell calls and appear confident by being animated or cocky.  This is actually taught and nothing is worse than an official who looks indecisive and timid.  Some guys overcompensate, but it isn't because they want to make the game about them, they are just trying to keep the game under control which requires assertiveness and an air of authority.

2) The over-officiating - this is what happens after months of studying the rule book and sitting in meetings discussing the grey areas and obscure rules.  Pick up an official's quiz and you'll see 10 of the wildest plays you can imagine in there.  Some officials start dialing in so hard on the rules that they fail to officiate the game.  It is a product of the system and some guys are just sticklers.  They aren't trying to make the game about them, they are just trying to enforce the rules as they see them.

If you haven't ever tried to officiate anything, I suggest you give it a try.  Trying to maintain your composure and continue to do your job with 100's of people screaming at you is not easy and often times, your pride/anger kicks in and you want to fight every MF'er in the place.  Some guys can keep that stuff buried, others not so much.

Officials aren't some special group of people that are typified by a stereotype.  They are a cross section of the population and there are good and bad ones across the board with various strengths and weaknesses.  If you don't like "officiating" as a whole, get in and do something about it.  I don't have a problem if someone criticizes a specific official over something, I just think blanket statements like the one above are a big part of the problem and will do nothing but keep good people out of the profession because who wants to deal with being the bad guy as soon as everyone walks onto the gym or field.

 
Thorn said:
I would love to see the pleadings.  What irreparable harm requiring an injunction are they alleging?  Seems like the ruling should be: it's just a game.
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That they don't get to play in the championship game? In this context I think that qualifies as "irreparable harm" - although I doubt the judge will rule on the merits as RHE already implied.

 
The Ref said:
Yes.  I vacation with my all my Ref friends in the Hamptons before every football season.
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Getting rich or not from the activity doesn't change the expectations.  Yes, traveling basketball refs "only" get $25 a game or so.  But nothing frustrates me more than watching the countless hours I volunteer for my players get wasted because I get a game with some dude that doesn't know the rules.

If the money is so bad, why do it?

 
Bull Dozier said:
Getting rich or not from the activity doesn't change the expectations.  Yes, traveling basketball refs "only" get $25 a game or so.  But nothing frustrates me more than watching the countless hours I volunteer for my players get wasted because I get a game with some dude that doesn't know the rules.

If the money is so bad, why do it?
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Why do you?

 
Bull Dozier said:
Getting rich or not from the activity doesn't change the expectations.  Yes, traveling basketball refs "only" get $25 a game or so.  But nothing frustrates me more than watching the countless hours I volunteer for my players get wasted because I get a game with some dude that doesn't know the rules.

If the money is so bad, why do it?
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If you think a ref can somehow waste your effort, then you aren't a very good coach.  Until you get to High School varsity games, wins and losses mean very little.  You should focus more on developing players and less on winning.  Good luck with your career, Coach Knight.

Also, the money isn't that bad, but it isn't that good either.  Some do it for the money (usually younger), some do it for the love of the game (usually older).

If you are in a rec league, you need to temper the expectations.  If their isn't a governing body over your officials, you shouldn't expect much and just use it as a teaching tool for your players that they need to work through adversity.

 
FatUncleJerryBuss said:
So his son will start.
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Funny, but fortunately not true.  I haven't actually been the head coach in charge of the rotation for several years.  When I was, I generally did not start my kids unless they were clearly the best players (which would occur in school teams, not traveling teams).

 
Sweet J said:
Ok, about the original story:  If it's true that this was a CLEAR violation of the rules (or more accurately, a clear misinterpretation of the rules by the officials), and it is CLEAR that, if the officials had administered the rules correctly the losing team (Fenwick) should have won, then I don't understand:  Why hasn't the winning team (Plainfield) simply forfeited and said "you are correct, the wrong call was made and the game should have ended. We'll go ahead and forfeit."

Aren't we teaching high school kids that rules are important?  Yes, the rule apparently is that the official's word is final, so the game shouldn't be reversed.  So no reversal.  But shouldn't a forfeit be on the table?  What am I missing? 
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I totally agree. The "winning" team should forfeit. That would leave those kids with a better life lesson than four years of football would.

 
Sweet J said:
Ok, about the original story:  If it's true that this was a CLEAR violation of the rules (or more accurately, a clear misinterpretation of the rules by the officials), and it is CLEAR that, if the officials had administered the rules correctly the losing team (Fenwick) should have won, then I don't understand:  Why hasn't the winning team (Plainfield) simply forfeited and said "you are correct, the wrong call was made and the game should have ended. We'll go ahead and forfeit."

Aren't we teaching high school kids that rules are important?  Yes, the rule apparently is that the official's word is final, so the game shouldn't be reversed.  So no reversal.  But shouldn't a forfeit be on the table?  What am I missing? 
Click to expand...
Because it opens up Pandora's box.  Overrule the governing body and you'll be inundated with cases like this.   IMO if you have a problem with the ruling you need to settle it then and there.   You argue your case to the officials and if they don't overturn the call then you have to live with it and move on.  

The purpose of a protest to the governing body should be to review and take corrective action so it does not occur in the future.

 
I know some parents from the Plainfield side and based on the FB feeds I'm seeing the whole community has been acting like children about this. Heads are already exploding with each new development and/or talking head opinion that even suggests Plainfield didn't earn their victory. So I'd love to see this get overturned, because the ####show about it has already been fun to observe.

Parents of kids that aren't even on the team with the 'My little Susie is in the pep rally band and I was there so I know what happened' bravado 

People that weren't even there appalled at the notion that the first trip to the state finals for a Plainfield school may be taken away like it's there inherent right to go.

 
Limp Ditka said:
I know some parents from the Plainfield side and based on the FB feeds I'm seeing the whole community has been acting like children about this. Heads are already exploding with each new development and/or talking head opinion that even suggests Plainfield didn't earn their victory. So I'd love to see this get overturned, because the ####show about it has already been fun to observe.

Parents of kids that aren't even on the team with the 'My little Susie is in the pep rally band and I was there so I know what happened' bravado 

People that weren't even there appalled at the notion that the first trip to the state finals for a Plainfield school may be taken away like it's there inherent right to go.
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Sounds like both teams played well enough to go considering it only took one play to turn the game.  They played the game as it was called and won based on the final score.  I'd argue it is their right to go.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
The "winning" team is set to play in the final.  The harm, however insignificant, would certainly be irreparable at that point, as you can't then send the challenging team to play a game that's already been decided. 
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So plaintiff is "harmed" in that they don't get to play in the next game.  A game.  I just don't see it.

 
Jayrod said:
Sounds like both teams played well enough to go considering it only took one play to turn the game.  They played the game as it was called and won based on the final score.  I'd argue it is their right to go.
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No. It didn't take one play to turn the game. It took one decision, and a wrong one at that, to create a scenario that allowed the game to be turned. 

 
FatUncleJerryBuss said:
I was a pretty good basketball player in high school and in college I hung out at the gym a lot shooting hoops and played intramural hoops for my frat.   One day they needed a ref for a top level intramural game.   I played in that league and was asked to ref because they were short a ref and thought what the heck, I can do this.   Total nightmare.   Now I could see every foul in my vision as a player but as a ref it just didn't translate.   I was a god awful mess out there.   I couldn't wait for the game to end.   When it did both side hated me and one side was the rec center staff and college coaches.   
Click to expand...
How wasted were you?

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
The "winning" team is set to play in the final.  The harm, however insignificant, would certainly be irreparable at that point, as you can't then send the challenging team to play a game that's already been decided. 
Click to expand...
I think the team getting screwed here is the other team in the championship game.  They don't know who they are playing (assuming it's not resolved yet) and have to prepare for both teams until it's decided.

 
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