Julius Jones - Marion Barber (1 Viewer)

[perry147]

Last year Julius Jones rushed for over 1000 yards but Marion Barber was way ahead in TD's with 16 (14 Rush, 2 Rec). So that got me thinking.

When was the last time in the NFL that a lead back (JJ) rushed for over 1000 yards but his backup (MB) scored 16 or more TDs? I think what we saw last year is either the end of JJ or a worse case for him and I was wondering what history could let us.

I think JJ right now offers great value right now and worth the risk.

 

[Heinz 57]

Last year Julius Jones rushed for over 1000 yards but Marion Barber was way ahead in TD's with 16 (14 Rush, 2 Rec). So that got me thinking.When was the last time in the NFL that a lead back (JJ) rushed for over 1000 yards but his backup (MB) scored 16 or more TDs? I think what we saw last year is either the end of JJ or a worse case for him and I was wondering what history could let us.I think JJ right now offers great value right now and worth the risk.

Corey Dillon gets an honorable mention rushing for 13 TDs under Moroney last season.

 

[burd]

Parcells stubornly stuck w/ Jones as the starter eventhough it was apparent that Barber was just as good a runner and a much better goalline option.

Who knows how the new coaching staff will handle the RB position this season? Bum's son went w/ one definitiive starter in SD, but obviously neither is even close to being in LT's league. I foresee Jones getting more than 50% of the carries at the start of the season, but eventually losing carries to Barber as the season progresses. I'm not crazy about either RB unless they can be picked up at value.

 

[perry147]

Parcells stubornly stuck w/ Jones as the starter eventhough it was apparent that Barber was just as good a runner and a much better goalline option. Who knows how the new coaching staff will handle the RB position this season? Bum's son went w/ one definitiive starter in SD, but obviously neither is even close to being in LT's league. I foresee Jones getting more than 50% of the carries at the start of the season, but eventually losing carries to Barber as the season progresses. I'm not crazy about either RB unless they can be picked up at value.

Parcells is a HOF coach and has coached several future HOF players. I think that if in his opinion JJ > MB then I think we need to listen. I admit not watching all the Cowboy games last year but I caught a few and JJ seems to have a better burst and speed than MB - but MB is a tougher runner.

 

[chadavan]

Parcells stubornly stuck w/ Jones as the starter eventhough it was apparent that Barber was just as good a runner and a much better goalline option. Who knows how the new coaching staff will handle the RB position this season? Bum's son went w/ one definitiive starter in SD, but obviously neither is even close to being in LT's league. I foresee Jones getting more than 50% of the carries at the start of the season, but eventually losing carries to Barber as the season progresses. I'm not crazy about either RB unless they can be picked up at value.

Parcells is a HOF coach and has coached several future HOF players. I think that if in his opinion JJ > MB then I think we need to listen. I admit not watching all the Cowboy games last year but I caught a few and JJ seems to have a better burst and speed than MB - but MB is a tougher runner.

Good post...I think it was stubbornness the other way around. JJ got them up the field, Parcells thinks he needs a breather and puts in Barber inside the 20.I've said for the entire off season, If JJ would have gotten half of those carries inside the 20, we'd be singing a different tune about the Dallas backfield and JJ would be a first round pick.

 

[Duke1948]

Good post...I think it was stubbornness the other way around. JJ got them up the field, Parcells thinks he needs a breather and puts in Barber inside the 20.I've said for the entire off season, If JJ would have gotten half of those carries inside the 20, we'd be singing a different tune about the Dallas backfield and JJ would be a first round pick.

well said JJ owner

 

[chadavan]

Good post...I think it was stubbornness the other way around. JJ got them up the field, Parcells thinks he needs a breather and puts in Barber inside the 20.I've said for the entire off season, If JJ would have gotten half of those carries inside the 20, we'd be singing a different tune about the Dallas backfield and JJ would be a first round pick.

well said JJ owner

I own both Barber and JJ, so it's a pretty non-biased opinion.

 

[Ack88]

I'm a Cowboy fan and 100% biased. I've seen every game both player has participated in. You can talk all you want about measureables and potential, Parcells' stubborness, etc...

The bottom line is Barber is, without question, the more productive back. How the carries will be distributed, I have no idea, but if given an equal shot, Barber will outperform JJ, just as he did last year. Count on it.

 

[Sidewinder16]

When was the last time in the NFL that a lead back (JJ) rushed for over 1000 yards but his backup (MB) scored 16 or more TDs?

After a quick and dirty search (all RBs with <1000 rushing yards and 16 or more rush/rec TDs), I'm not sure anything remotely close to the '06 Cowboy RB production has ever happened before.So far the closest situation I've found is the '66 Cowboys.

| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Don Perkins | 14 | 186 726 3.9 8 | 23 231 10.0 0 || Dan Reeves | 14 | 175 757 4.3 8 | 41 557 13.6 8 |And it's not even that close. Reeves had 16 TDs, but the touches between him and Perkins were nearly 50/50, and Reeves had more yardage. If anything these guys might be considered RB 1a and 1b. Cowboys homers may know better, but I have a feeling Reeves was considered the #1 RB for that team.For reference, the '06 Cowboy RBs:

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Marion Barber III	| 16 |  135   654   4.8  14  |   23   196   8.5   2 || Julius Jones		 | 16 |  267  1084   4.1   4  |	9   142  15.8   0 |

 

[Phurfur]

Who knows how the new coaching staff will handle the RB position this season? Bum's son went w/ one definitiive starter in SD, but obviously neither is even close to being in LT's league. I foresee Jones getting more than 50% of the carries at the start of the season, but eventually losing carries to Barber as the season progresses. I'm not crazy about either RB unless they can be picked up at value.

Bum's son was not running the offense in SD.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I'm a Cowboy fan and 100% biased. I've seen every game both player has participated in. You can talk all you want about measureables and potential, Parcells' stubborness, etc...The bottom line is Barber is, without question, the more productive back. How the carries will be distributed, I have no idea, but if given an equal shot, Barber will outperform JJ, just as he did last year. Count on it.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Can't believe I forgot this, but the '06 Jaguars were very similar. But that doesn't help from a historical, "What can happen next year" standpoint.

| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Maurice Jones-Drew | 16 | 166 941 5.7 13 | 46 436 9.5 2 || Fred Taylor | 15 | 231 1146 5.0 5 | 23 242 10.5 1 |After some expanded searching, here are some other close ones.A situation that was somewhat similar was the '88 Buffalo Bills:

| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Robb Riddick | 15 | 111 438 3.9 12 | 30 282 9.4 1 || Thurman Thomas | 15 | 207 881 4.3 2 | 18 208 11.6 0 |But, that was Thomas' rookie year, and Riddick never played again.The '86 Cowboys had Tony Dorsett in the twilight of his career, and Herschel Walker just getting started:

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Tony Dorsett		 | 13 |  184   748   4.1   5  |   25   267  10.7   1 || Herschel Walker	  | 16 |  151   737   4.9  12  |   76   837  11.0   2 |

The '85 Dolphins had an interesting RB situation.

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Ron Davenport		| 16 |   98   370   3.8  11  |   13	74   5.7   2 || Lorenzo Hampton	  | 16 |  105   369   3.5   3  |	8	56   7.0   0 || Tony Nathan		  | 16 |  143   667   4.7   5  |   72   651   9.0   1 |

'81 Redskins?

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| John Riggins		 | 15 |  195   714   3.7  13  |	6	59   9.8   0 || Joe Washington	   | 14 |  210   916   4.4   4  |   70   558   8.0   3 |

The '75 Bills saw the lead back rush for over 1000 yards and the #2 back scored 13 TDs. Of course, the lead back found the end zone 23 times, himself.

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Jim Braxton		  | 14 |  186   823   4.4   9  |   26   282  10.8   4 || O.J. Simpson		 | 14 |  329  1817   5.5  16  |   28   426  15.2   7 |

The '62 Oilers have a somewhat decent analogue:

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Billy Cannon		 | 14 |  147   474   3.2   7  |   32   451  14.1   6 || Charley Tolar		| 14 |  244  1012   4.1   7  |   30   251   8.4   1 |

Another interesting situation ('61 Colts), production-wise, from the 1, 2 and 3 RBs:

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Alex Hawkins		 | 11 |   86   379   4.4   4  |   20   158   7.9   1 || Lenny Moore		  | 13 |   92   648   7.0   7  |   49   728  14.9   8 || Joe Perry			| 13 |  168   675   4.0   3  |   34   322   9.5   1 |

Last one. I promise. Hornung and Taylor of the '60 Packers.

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Paul Hornung		 | 12 |  160   671   4.2  13  |   28   257   9.2   2 || Jim Taylor		   | 12 |  230  1101   4.8  11  |   15   121   8.1   0 |

ETA: I don't think anything substantial can be derived from these and directly applied to the '07 Cowboy RBs, but I had fun looking this up. :whoosh:

 

[mggoilers]

Julius Jones is a better running back, Barber is a nice player who runs hard.

Both can pass protect, and catch the ball out of the backfield....Jones is more explosive

It's 3rd and 10 yards plus, most backs including Barber can get 8 yards on a draw play. Barber was put into the game in the redzone, and you can only judge Julius in his first year when he was given those opportunities...he was productive.

With Owens, Witten, Glenn the Cowboys had numerous redzone options and Parcells liked to throw the ball in the redzone...Barber rarely lined up and punched it in. They spread it out and ran it in.

Either way, I believe both will play but Jones will be given every opp to be the lead back. I don't believe Garrett/Phillips will play games with the starter. Should be interesting, I like Jones to win the job.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Julius Jones is a better running back, Barber is a nice player who runs hard.

Both can pass protect, and catch the ball out of the backfield....Jones is more explosive

It's 3rd and 10 yards plus, most backs including Barber can get 8 yards on a draw play. Barber was put into the game in the redzone, and you can only judge Julius in his first year when he was given those opportunities...he was productive.

With Owens, Witten, Glenn the Cowboys had numerous redzone options and Parcells liked to throw the ball in the redzone...Barber rarely lined up and punched it in. They spread it out and ran it in.

Either way, I believe both will play but Jones will be given every opp to be the lead back. I don't believe Garrett/Phillips will play games with the starter. Should be interesting, I like Jones to win the job.

I disagree with every point you've made, and I think some of the facts from last season disagree as well...Week 2 - TD on the team's 4th straight rush inside the 10 yard line; 4th down.

Week 4 - 1 yard TD run

Week 5 - 2 yard TD run

Week 6 - Short TD run

Week 8 - 9 rushes, 49 yards, 2 TDs

Week 11 - 2 short rush TDs

Week 13 - 1 yard TD run (and a 7 yard TD run)

Week 15 - 3 yard TD run (and a 9 yard TD run)

Week 16 - 3 carries at the 1 yard line, did not convert

 

[mggoilers]

Julius Jones is a better running back, Barber is a nice player who runs hard.

Both can pass protect, and catch the ball out of the backfield....Jones is more explosive

It's 3rd and 10 yards plus, most backs including Barber can get 8 yards on a draw play. Barber was put into the game in the redzone, and you can only judge Julius in his first year when he was given those opportunities...he was productive.

With Owens, Witten, Glenn the Cowboys had numerous redzone options and Parcells liked to throw the ball in the redzone...Barber rarely lined up and punched it in. They spread it out and ran it in.

Either way, I believe both will play but Jones will be given every opp to be the lead back. I don't believe Garrett/Phillips will play games with the starter. Should be interesting, I like Jones to win the job.

I disagree with every point you've made, and I think some of the facts from last season disagree as well...Week 2 - TD on the team's 4th straight rush inside the 10 yard line; 4th down.

Week 4 - 1 yard TD run

Week 5 - 2 yard TD run

Week 6 - Short TD run

Week 8 - 9 rushes, 49 yards, 2 TDs

Week 11 - 2 short rush TDs

Week 13 - 1 yard TD run (and a 7 yard TD run)

Week 15 - 3 yard TD run (and a 9 yard TD run)

Week 16 - 3 carries at the 1 yard line, did not convert

Need to have seen the formations, and watched the game. Spread out, with Owens to the wide side in most cases. To make your point, you need to include down and distance on the runs. Just guessing, my bet is they happened in apparent passing situations. There is no denying the 16 TD's, and his hard nose running style. Jones has all the tools Barber has, and just a bit more talent. With improvements to the line, he should get at least 300 carries and get to the 1200 yard mark.

 

[Colin Dowling]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think that Barber is clearly the better player. As a sort-of-Cowboy fan (NFC choice is Dallas, I actually see more Cowboy games then Titans games) I would love to see both be fantastic going forward and deliver a 1500 rush yard 15 rush TD combo for years to come.

 

[Jason Wood]

Julius Jones is a better running back, Barber is a nice player who runs hard.

Both can pass protect, and catch the ball out of the backfield....Jones is more explosive

It's 3rd and 10 yards plus, most backs including Barber can get 8 yards on a draw play. Barber was put into the game in the redzone, and you can only judge Julius in his first year when he was given those opportunities...he was productive.

With Owens, Witten, Glenn the Cowboys had numerous redzone options and Parcells liked to throw the ball in the redzone...Barber rarely lined up and punched it in. They spread it out and ran it in.

Either way, I believe both will play but Jones will be given every opp to be the lead back. I don't believe Garrett/Phillips will play games with the starter. Should be interesting, I like Jones to win the job.

I disagree with every point you've made, and I think some of the facts from last season disagree as well...Week 2 - TD on the team's 4th straight rush inside the 10 yard line; 4th down.

Week 4 - 1 yard TD run

Week 5 - 2 yard TD run

Week 6 - Short TD run

Week 8 - 9 rushes, 49 yards, 2 TDs

Week 11 - 2 short rush TDs

Week 13 - 1 yard TD run (and a 7 yard TD run)

Week 15 - 3 yard TD run (and a 9 yard TD run)

Week 16 - 3 carries at the 1 yard line, did not convert

Need to have seen the formations, and watched the game. Spread out, with Owens to the wide side in most cases. To make your point, you need to include down and distance on the runs. Just guessing, my bet is they happened in apparent passing situations. There is no denying the 16 TD's, and his hard nose running style. Jones has all the tools Barber has, and just a bit more talent. With improvements to the line, he should get at least 300 carries and get to the 1200 yard mark.

I've posted this in another thread already...but Barber was more productive in virtually every situation. More long runs in fewer attempts. Better in virtually all downs and distances. I don't know how anyone can slice their respective performances and say Jones has been more productive. Far beyond the TD totals. You can argue the ethereal "TALENT" all you want, but even that leaves me scratching my head. Barber was an absolute beast running in the Big 10, Jones was kind-of-good on an underachieving Notre Dame team.

Yards per rush 2006: Jones (4.1) vs. Barber (4.8)
Yards per rush career: Jones (4.0) vs. Barber (4.4)
Rushing TDs: 16 in 37 games (Jones) vs. 19 in 29 games (Barber)
Goal-line TDs: Jones (7) vs. Barber (13)
Goal-line TD%: Jones (23%) vs. Barber (38%)
Short-yardage conversion %: Jones (51%) vs. Barber (57%)
Average on 1st down: Jones (3.75 YPR) vs. Barber (4.25 YPR)
Average on 2nd down: Jones (4.40 YPR) vs. Barber (4.32 YPR)
Average on 3rd down: Jones (3.95 YPR) vs. Barber (4.85 YPR)
Average inside the red zone: Jones (2.66 YPR) vs. Barber (2.99 YPR)
Receptions per target: Jones (70.9%) vs. Barber (71.9%)
Receiving TDs: Jones (0) vs. Barber (2)
Yards per reception: Jones (7.7) vs. Barber (7.6)
% rushes stopped at or behind line of scrimmage: Jones (9.7%) vs. Barber (4.4%) -- 2nd best in NFL
Big play rushes (>10 yards): Jones (9.4%) vs. Barber (15.5%)
Fumbles 2006: 1 for Jones vs. 0 for Barber
Fumbles, Career: 8 for Jones vs. 3 for Barber
Games missed: 11 of 48 (23%) for Jones vs. 3 of 32 (9%) for BarberAll running behind the same lines and same coaches. Explain to me, objectively, how Julius Jones is a better runner in any facet of the game? Barber is more explosive, doesn't get stuffed, doesn't turn the ball over, is healthier, and is far better in short yardage. The only area where Jones has an edge, and it's paltry, is as a receiver.

 

[chadavan]

Yards per rush 2006: Jones (4.1) vs. Barber (4.8)
Yards per rush career: Jones (4.0) vs. Barber (4.4)
Rushing TDs: 16 in 37 games (Jones) vs. 19 in 29 games (Barber)
Goal-line TDs: Jones (7) vs. Barber (13)
Goal-line TD%: Jones (23%) vs. Barber (38%)
Short-yardage conversion %: Jones (51%) vs. Barber (57%)
Average on 1st down: Jones (3.75 YPR) vs. Barber (4.25 YPR)
Average on 2nd down: Jones (4.40 YPR) vs. Barber (4.32 YPR)
Average on 3rd down: Jones (3.95 YPR) vs. Barber (4.85 YPR)
Average inside the red zone: Jones (2.66 YPR) vs. Barber (2.99 YPR)
Receptions per target: Jones (70.9%) vs. Barber (71.9%)
Receiving TDs: Jones (0) vs. Barber (2)
Yards per reception: Jones (7.7) vs. Barber (7.6)
% rushes stopped at or behind line of scrimmage: Jones (9.7%) vs. Barber (4.4%) -- 2nd best in NFL
Big play rushes (>10 yards): Jones (9.4%) vs. Barber (15.5%)
Fumbles 2006: 1 for Jones vs. 0 for Barber
Fumbles, Career: 8 for Jones vs. 3 for Barber
Games missed: 11 of 48 (23%) for Jones vs. 3 of 32 (9%) for BarberAll running behind the same lines and same coaches. Explain to me, objectively, how Julius Jones is a better runner in any facet of the game? Barber is more explosive, doesn't get stuffed, doesn't turn the ball over, is healthier, and is far better in short yardage. The only area where Jones has an edge, and it's paltry, is as a receiver.

Dude, those stats are so skewed, I can't even believe you are basing all of your decisions on that... :X 1st, the stats are pretty even, not really a whole lot of difference in any category.

Second, the TD's are different because of opportunity. I could have run 6 of those 12 TD's in last year. If JJ was given each of those opportunities, he easily would have had 8 more TDs last year, and we would all be singing a different tune about his value.

Third, Show me the stats of each when on rushing downs/situations. That is when JJ was in the game. Barber was in on passing downs, therefore he'll get more yards per carry. According to your logic, Mewelde Moore should be the starter for any team, including the Chargers. (5.5 yards per carry, Tomlinson was 5.2 yards per carry).

Fourth, Barber comes in with fresh legs late in the game. It's easier to build stats when running against a weakened defense. He's never rushed for more 20 times a game... Barber's rushing average is 3.9 per carry in the first half, Jones is 4.2.

Look at the intangibles, JJ is the better runner. Barber was in to spell JJ and he is a better blocking back. Barber is good and will start eventually with some team, probably the Cowboys in 2008, but I wouldn't get hellbent on him overtaking JJ too soon.

Another thing to consider, the Cowboys may want to make JJ as valuable as possible to spark a trade next offseason.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Last year Julius Jones rushed for over 1000 yards but Marion Barber was way ahead in TD's with 16 (14 Rush, 2 Rec). So that got me thinking.When was the last time in the NFL that a lead back (JJ) rushed for over 1000 yards but his backup (MB) scored 16 or more TDs? I think what we saw last year is either the end of JJ or a worse case for him and I was wondering what history could let us.I think JJ right now offers great value right now and worth the risk.

If you look at all times in NFL history where a lead back rushed for over 1,000 yards, the most rushing TDs ever scored by the non-lead back was in fact 16 by Barber last year. In second was Jones-Drew with 15 last season, tied with Paul Hornung of the '60 Packers. For the record, Jim Taylor (that'd be the Julius Jones of the combo) was the better fantasy player in 1961.Only five other times has the non-lead back hit 12 or more TDs when the lead rusher hit the 1,000 yard rushing mark: James Brooks, 1988; Jim Braxton, 1975; Billy Cannon, 1962; Ron Springs, 1981 and Mercury Morris, 1972 (who, of course, also rushed for 1K yards).In the last decade, before last season only a couple of Minnesota RBs -- Moe Williams and Leroy Hoard (twice) -- hit double digit TDs behind runners that broke the thousand yard mark. Brandon Jacobs ('06), Jerome Bettis ('05), Stacey Mack ('02) and Mike Alstott ('98) were the only ones with nine.

 

[Penguin]

Yards per rush 2006: Jones (4.1) vs. Barber (4.8)
Yards per rush career: Jones (4.0) vs. Barber (4.4)
Rushing TDs: 16 in 37 games (Jones) vs. 19 in 29 games (Barber)
Goal-line TDs: Jones (7) vs. Barber (13)
Goal-line TD%: Jones (23%) vs. Barber (38%)
Short-yardage conversion %: Jones (51%) vs. Barber (57%)
Average on 1st down: Jones (3.75 YPR) vs. Barber (4.25 YPR)
Average on 2nd down: Jones (4.40 YPR) vs. Barber (4.32 YPR)
Average on 3rd down: Jones (3.95 YPR) vs. Barber (4.85 YPR)
Average inside the red zone: Jones (2.66 YPR) vs. Barber (2.99 YPR)
Receptions per target: Jones (70.9%) vs. Barber (71.9%)
Receiving TDs: Jones (0) vs. Barber (2)
Yards per reception: Jones (7.7) vs. Barber (7.6)
% rushes stopped at or behind line of scrimmage: Jones (9.7%) vs. Barber (4.4%) -- 2nd best in NFL
Big play rushes (>10 yards): Jones (9.4%) vs. Barber (15.5%)
Fumbles 2006: 1 for Jones vs. 0 for Barber
Fumbles, Career: 8 for Jones vs. 3 for Barber
Games missed: 11 of 48 (23%) for Jones vs. 3 of 32 (9%) for BarberAll running behind the same lines and same coaches. Explain to me, objectively, how Julius Jones is a better runner in any facet of the game? Barber is more explosive, doesn't get stuffed, doesn't turn the ball over, is healthier, and is far better in short yardage. The only area where Jones has an edge, and it's paltry, is as a receiver.

Dude, those stats are so skewed, I can't even believe you are basing all of your decisions on that... 1st, the stats are pretty even, not really a whole lot of difference in any category.

Second, the TD's are different because of opportunity. I could have run 6 of those 12 TD's in last year. If JJ was given each of those opportunities, he easily would have had 8 more TDs last year, and we would all be singing a different tune about his value.

Third, Show me the stats of each when on rushing downs/situations. That is when JJ was in the game. Barber was in on passing downs, therefore he'll get more yards per carry. According to your logic, Mewelde Moore should be the starter for any team, including the Chargers. (5.5 yards per carry, Tomlinson was 5.2 yards per carry).

Fourth, Barber comes in with fresh legs late in the game. It's easier to build stats when running against a weakened defense. He's never rushed for more 20 times a game... Barber's rushing average is 3.9 per carry in the first half, Jones is 4.2.

Look at the intangibles, JJ is the better runner. Barber was in to spell JJ and he is a better blocking back. Barber is good and will start eventually with some team, probably the Cowboys in 2008, but I wouldn't get hellbent on him overtaking JJ too soon.

Another thing to consider, the Cowboys may want to make JJ as valuable as possible to spark a trade next offseason.

Barber outperformed Jones last year, plain and simple. Even though I believe Marion is the better back I don't think either of the the two are capable of carrying the rock 350 times in consecutive seasons with success.

 

[Fighting Noles]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think that Barber is clearly the better player. As a sort-of-Cowboy fan (NFC choice is Dallas, I actually see more Cowboy games then Titans games) I would love to see both be fantastic going forward and deliver a 1500 rush yard 15 rush TD combo for years to come.

I think they are pretty equal. I do think it was somewhat telling that in Parcells' last game - a playoff game he desperately wanted - JJ had 22 carries for ~ 120 & MB3 had 3 for 2 yds. Parcells loved MB3 in the redzone but when the big game was on the line it was JJ who was getting the ball...

 

[Penguin]

Parcel's also had a Man Crush on Romo, I think the jury is still out on him being a quality NFL starter, personally I think he comes up short. It's always comforting to see your starting QB smiling after he throws an interception, fumbles a snap, drops the ball in the biggest game of his life. Yeah, it's all nerves..... or maybe he's just not mature enough to be at the helm of "America's Team."

 

[Ack88]

Anyone who insists Jones is better than Barber is not going on anything other than opinion. All of the empirical evidence shows that Barber was more productive. There is so much talk that Jones is the more "explosive" back, capable of "hitting the home run" every time he touches the ball. Other than the 75 yard run against the Saints, Jones did not demonstrate this ability in game situations. Barber was the opposite; he was consistently productive in nearly every game. He may not have the stopwatch speed that Jones has, nor may he have the physical measureables, but he has the performance in game situations that Jones does not. I just don't see how anyone can rationally think Jones is better, given what we saw last year.

 

[chadavan]

Anyone who insists Jones is better than Barber is not going on anything other than opinion. All of the empirical evidence shows that Barber was more productive. There is so much talk that Jones is the more "explosive" back, capable of "hitting the home run" every time he touches the ball. Other than the 75 yard run against the Saints, Jones did not demonstrate this ability in game situations. Barber was the opposite; he was consistently productive in nearly every game. He may not have the stopwatch speed that Jones has, nor may he have the physical measureables, but he has the performance in game situations that Jones does not. I just don't see how anyone can rationally think Jones is better, given what we saw last year.

Umm, I think I backed it up with stats...Sure if you just look at stats, it's easy to say Barber is more explosive. But when you dig in and look at the reasons why, you'll be surprised. Then watch the games and see what I mean. Seriously, 8 of those 14 TDs were walk ins. Here's another stat for you. JJ has had a 50+ yard rush each year. Barber has never had a run for more than 28 yards... So who's more explosive?

 

[chadavan]

Parcel's also had a Man Crush on Romo, I think the jury is still out on him being a quality NFL starter, personally I think he comes up short. It's always comforting to see your starting QB smiling after he throws an interception, fumbles a snap, drops the ball in the biggest game of his life. Yeah, it's all nerves..... or maybe he's just not mature enough to be at the helm of "America's Team."

Parcell's had a ManCrush on Bledsoe, not Romo. Bledsoe would still be starting if Jerry Jones and the Dallas fan base didn't want his head on a platter if he started Bledsoe again.

 

[perry147]

Can't believe I forgot this, but the '06 Jaguars were very similar. But that doesn't help from a historical, "What can happen next year" standpoint.

| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Maurice Jones-Drew | 16 | 166 941 5.7 13 | 46 436 9.5 2 || Fred Taylor | 15 | 231 1146 5.0 5 | 23 242 10.5 1 |After some expanded searching, here are some other close ones.A situation that was somewhat similar was the '88 Buffalo Bills:

| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Robb Riddick | 15 | 111 438 3.9 12 | 30 282 9.4 1 || Thurman Thomas | 15 | 207 881 4.3 2 | 18 208 11.6 0 |But, that was Thomas' rookie year, and Riddick never played again.The '86 Cowboys had Tony Dorsett in the twilight of his career, and Herschel Walker just getting started:

| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Tony Dorsett | 13 | 184 748 4.1 5 | 25 267 10.7 1 || Herschel Walker | 16 | 151 737 4.9 12 | 76 837 11.0 2 |The '85 Dolphins had an interesting RB situation.

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Ron Davenport		| 16 |   98   370   3.8  11  |   13	74   5.7   2 || Lorenzo Hampton	  | 16 |  105   369   3.5   3  |	8	56   7.0   0 || Tony Nathan		  | 16 |  143   667   4.7   5  |   72   651   9.0   1 |

'81 Redskins?

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| John Riggins		 | 15 |  195   714   3.7  13  |	6	59   9.8   0 || Joe Washington	   | 14 |  210   916   4.4   4  |   70   558   8.0   3 |

The '75 Bills saw the lead back rush for over 1000 yards and the #2 back scored 13 TDs. Of course, the lead back found the end zone 23 times, himself.

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Jim Braxton		  | 14 |  186   823   4.4   9  |   26   282  10.8   4 || O.J. Simpson		 | 14 |  329  1817   5.5  16  |   28   426  15.2   7 |

The '62 Oilers have a somewhat decent analogue:

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Billy Cannon		 | 14 |  147   474   3.2   7  |   32   451  14.1   6 || Charley Tolar		| 14 |  244  1012   4.1   7  |   30   251   8.4   1 |

Another interesting situation ('61 Colts), production-wise, from the 1, 2 and 3 RBs:

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Alex Hawkins		 | 11 |   86   379   4.4   4  |   20   158   7.9   1 || Lenny Moore		  | 13 |   92   648   7.0   7  |   49   728  14.9   8 || Joe Perry			| 13 |  168   675   4.0   3  |   34   322   9.5   1 |

Last one. I promise. Hornung and Taylor of the '60 Packers.

| Name				 |  G |  RSH  YARD   AVG  TD  |  REC  YARD   AVG  TD |+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+| Paul Hornung		 | 12 |  160   671   4.2  13  |   28   257   9.2   2 || Jim Taylor		   | 12 |  230  1101   4.8  11  |   15   121   8.1   0 |

ETA: I don't think anything substantial can be derived from these and directly applied to the '07 Cowboy RBs, but I had fun looking this up.

Thank you some of these exactly fit the profile I wanted.

 

[perry147]

Last year Julius Jones rushed for over 1000 yards but Marion Barber was way ahead in TD's with 16 (14 Rush, 2 Rec). So that got me thinking.When was the last time in the NFL that a lead back (JJ) rushed for over 1000 yards but his backup (MB) scored 16 or more TDs? I think what we saw last year is either the end of JJ or a worse case for him and I was wondering what history could let us.I think JJ right now offers great value right now and worth the risk.

If you look at all times in NFL history where a lead back rushed for over 1,000 yards, the most rushing TDs ever scored by the non-lead back was in fact 16 by Barber last year. In second was Jones-Drew with 15 last season, tied with Paul Hornung of the '60 Packers. For the record, Jim Taylor (that'd be the Julius Jones of the combo) was the better fantasy player in 1961.Only five other times has the non-lead back hit 12 or more TDs when the lead rusher hit the 1,000 yard rushing mark: James Brooks, 1988; Jim Braxton, 1975; Billy Cannon, 1962; Ron Springs, 1981 and Mercury Morris, 1972 (who, of course, also rushed for 1K yards).In the last decade, before last season only a couple of Minnesota RBs -- Moe Williams and Leroy Hoard (twice) -- hit double digit TDs behind runners that broke the thousand yard mark. Brandon Jacobs ('06), Jerome Bettis ('05), Stacey Mack ('02) and Mike Alstott ('98) were the only ones with nine.

Thank you Chase.This what I need.

 

[David Yudkin]

One of the big questions of the offseason was whether the new staff would favor Julius Jones or Marion Barber. So far, it looks like Jones has a lock on the starting job and could see more action on passing downs. There is no guarantee Barber will have a similar vulture role without Bill Parcells.

LINKAGECertainly not anything official, but another opinion to consider . . .

 

[Fighting Noles]

One of the big questions of the offseason was whether the new staff would favor Julius Jones or Marion Barber. So far, it looks like Jones has a lock on the starting job and could see more action on passing downs. There is no guarantee Barber will have a similar vulture role without Bill Parcells.

LINKAGECertainly not anything official, but another opinion to consider . . .

This is what I've been seeing also. JJ in the late 6th or even early 7th while MB3 goes in the 4th. Last year I thought Barber was great value, considering Parcells redzone running mentality & the fact that I could get him in the 8th repeatedly (had him in 5 leagues). Also, JJ was the one usually going in the 3rd. I think the fact that the value has "flipped" has me looking at JJ over Barber this year...