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Just got back from La Dentista in Mexico... full report (1 Viewer)

lombardi

lombardi

Footballguy
(UPDATE 1/15/14 - http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=701730&page=3#entry16429062 )

We're staying in Yuma this month and against the better judgement of the dentist on this board my wife and I are seeking dental treatment South of the border. Basically we both grew up without the dentist and our dental care over the last 20 years has been mostly emergencies. We both require some work and financially this is the only viable option right now.

I have another thread about types of dentistry where I mentioned Los Algodones and there are a few links in there about it, any google search will bring back tons of information... the good, the bad, and the ugly. Through lots of research on the internet and a few referrals from real people I narrowed my search down to three dentists. So yesterday and today I went to three very different appointments. I thought it would be an interesting read for anyone who has ever considered Mexican dentistry. I'll continue to update this thread as I pick one of these dentists and receive treatment.

I just want to qualify this with a few things. First, I was advised by very knowledgeable people on this board to not go to Mexico for dentistry. I understand this a bit of a gamble but I'm also not walking down to Tijuana and into the first clinic I see on the street. I've been reading about this for a couple months, I've read tons of reviews, and I've sought some referrals from real people who are definitely not shills for the dentists I'm visiting. That doesn't guarantee me anything but it's also safer than walking into the first dentist office you see when you cross the border.

There is a ton of conflicting information out there, lots of praise and also lots of horror stories. From all of my research there are a few things I "think" are true. There are lots of dentists in Mexico and a good lot of them are crooks and cons. There are many real, competent, and qualified dentists in Mexico doing work just as good as anything you can get in the U.S for a fraction of the cost, usually about a quarter. Even if you find one of the good guys things can still go wrong (just like in the U.S.) and as you get work done things can go bad. It's probably a lot better to be in the U.S. when these things happen. When I'm done here in a couple weeks everything may seem great but the real test wont be for years down the road when the work either endures or does not endure. So lots of the praise and referrals may be from happy customers who are unhappy customers 3, 5, or even 10 years down the road. I go in eyes wide open and I'm not naive, I'm just taking a calculated risk.

Also, for anyone whose initial thought is "good luck getting back alive", Los Algodones is probably the safest border town in Mexico. The entire town shuts down around 5-6pm, it's a golden goose that Mexico is VERY protective of and violence in Los Algodones is unheard of. Thousands of Americans and Canadians walk into Los Algodones every single day to dump a ton of cash on dentistry, prescription drugs, eyewear, and booze. After going there the last two days I never felt in danger for even a moment. It's Mexico but it's not Tijuana or Juarez.

Next post will be my first experience in the dental offices....

 
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I had three appointments, one yesterday and two today. These were referral appointments and I'm basically checking the dentists out to see where I feel most comfortable, get multiple opinions on my treatment, and to finally pick a dentist to get my work done. I had 4 dentists but one of them is going to be gone for 2 weeks beginning next week for the holiday. So that left me with three....

Dentist #1

This was my first experience so I wasn't sure what to expect. When you go in the office was nice for Mexico. Probably the equivalent of a clinic in the United States. A nice front office, the chairs/equipment looked decent but you could see some scratches and wear, for instance, on the big light they stick over your head. All of the untensils come out of sealed steri-packs and everything they do seems to be with very new looking, sterile instruments. I didn't have any concern about cleanliness or sterility.

This place seems like a Group in the U.S.. Lots of dentists, multiple offices in this group where there are specialists (root canal, periodontist, etc.). They all work together. The only oddity is that the space is slightly cramped, small rooms where they work on you and they're only separated by pretty thin walls. You hear a lot going on in the other rooms. It's not really distracting it's just different than the U.S..

They spent about a half hour taking pictures, shooting x-rays, and poking around in my mouth. Lots of Spanish but then every so often they stop and talk to me about what they're doing, what they see, etc.. A little bit in the "office manager" comes in, he seems like he runs a lot of this. He begins speaking to me in very good English about what's going on in my mouth and treatment options. There is a big whiteboard with all of the teeth numbered. As they're going through x-rays and poking around they go tooth by tooth marking up the board with differnent symbols and colored markers. Each color/symbol means something different. Filling, extraction, existing filling, bridge, etc..

They see some significant bone loss in a pocket in my lower right jaw and then right in my upper front between my two front teeth and decide I need to speak with the periodontist. Instead of making an appointment for two weeks form now and then coming back a week after that they say hold on. About 10 minutes later the periodontist comes in.and takes a look. This was the most disconerting part. The periodontist and the dentist start, not arguing, but having an obvious disagreement. Lots of poking and nodding and no, no, and si, si towards my mouth. All in Spanish. When they're done, smiles all around and the "office manager" guy says "you have some bone loss". My response "uh, that was quite a long conversation for 'you have some bone loss', what in the world was all THAT about!" They all laugh, ha, ha, ha. I don't feel any better. The periodontist apologized and said she was going to explain it all to me.

Basically I have bone loss and need deep periodontic cleaning in those two areas. She said I need to take antibiotics for a couple days and use a mouth rinse and then after a couple days I need to return for a cleaning. Then a couple days after that she'll check my gums for swelling and infection and if all is clear she will do the deep cleaning. She does not want me to receive ANY treatment until I am on some antibiotics for a couple days because the risk of infection. The dentist wanted to start treatment right away. She talked for a while and seemed super competant and professional and her opinion obviously was the one that mattered in that room. She thanked me, said she would see me soon, and left.

After that the "office manager" went through all the treatments with me.

1. They wrote me a script for a wash (Bexident) and antibiotics (Valcran I think)

2. Come back in 3 days for a regular dental cleaning

3. Come back next week for exam and probably deep cleaning of 2 quadrants, possibly more.

4. Once swelling subsides I'll begin treatment.

Cleaning ($20)

Deep Cleaning ($150/quadrant but probably only 1 or 2. If all 4 are done they cut price down to around $400, I'm expecting this to be done)

2 Extractions ($100 each)

7 Fillings ($70 each)

Bridge across three back teeth, procelin on metal. It's 3 crows at $220 each, so $660

After that I can discuss further treatment if I want for restoration. I have some gaps that I could fill with a partial, get implants, or other bridges. I am holding off on any of this, right now I just want decay/damage fixed and get basic work done. If all goes well I may return for restoration next year.

Right now cavities don't seem bad. If I require root canal in any of them it is a total of $540 for canal, post, and crown.

So $1k in necessary work. Probably $2k after the bridge, extra scaling, and possibly a root canal.

The appointment took about 90 minutes, they spent a lot of time, they were super patient and seemed to know what they were talking about. They did about 15 digital x-rays, pictures, and long exam by dentist and periodontist. No charge for anythign. they wrote me a script for antibiotics and wash that I got filled on the way to the border at one of the many pharmacias.

I like this place and it's definitely in the running. It looked like they were doing some teaching and training here, they had specialists in house, and they have been around a long time.

 
Dentist #2

This was a bit different. Super tiny office, people who were waiting were actually standing because there weren't enough seats. I go back and meet the dentist, an older lady, one of the two partners, and she begins exam. She was very nice and is taking a trip to NY for New Year's eve so I was talking to her about some places to try and she was very excited. She was asking about snow, which she had never seen, and what she should bring for the weather, etc..

The back room was weird. It was three dentist chairs in a row separated by small half counters. So you're in the same room with 2 other people, dentists are working, drilling, talking all at the same time. A bit weird. She begins exam and tells me she needs to do a couple x-rays. This was mistake number 1, unlike the other place I didn't ask about the charge. She then proceeds to x-ray.

X-rays were funny. YOu know you are in Mexico. At Dentist #1 they had a hand held x-ray machine with a cable going right into their computer, large LCD showed image 2 seconds after x-ray. However, the guys doing the x-ray weren't too worried about long term exposure to radiation. They didn't wear lead or put lead on me. Actually the dentist held the probe/plate in place with his hand while the assitent aimed and shot the gun.

In this place, Dentist #2 we had the lead blankets, on me and dentist. However, instead of biting down on an instrument to hold x-ray film she said "put your finger here" and I held the plate in place. A little weird. She had film, not as technically advanced as Dentist #2 where everything was digital. They developed the 4 shots she took right in front of me and then she put them on the board and told me what I needed. This is where it gets weird.

First thing she wants to do, as she has me hold up a mirror and she pokes me teeth, is grind down my front 4 teeth. Then she wants to put a bridge across those 4 teeth, although she said 6 teeth. I wasn't sure if she was grinding 4 and putting 6 crowns in or grinding 6 across, i don't know. I stopped listening intently after grind down your front teeth. She wanted to do this to make the color match. I chipped a tooth as a kid and had it filled so color doesn't match. Also those front teeth protrude and she was going to make a nice, neat, matching smile. Uh, no thanks. Also wanted to do 2 bridges in back (1 definitly is needed, the other I don't know). Then she wanted to do 2 implants in my missing teeth. This was all after deep cleaning of course.

Cleaning $20

Peridex (wash) $30

Deep Cleaning $150

x-rays $80

13 Crowns (3 in each bridge, 6 across front, 1 on other side in back) $2015

2 Extractions $200

2 Implants $1600 (just implant root)

3-6 months later

2 Implant Post $560

2 Implant Crowns $600

Total $5255

I thanked her for her time and got out of there fast as I could. But not before shelling out $80 for the x-rays I should have asked about first. GRRR! Dummy. But she did let me keep them so I have those as a souvenir I guess.

No mention of bone loss, gum problems, or anything else. To me she seemed nice but when my mouth was open she was looking into a cash register. I wont be returning to Dentist #2.

 
Dentist #3

Dentist #3 was a one woman show. The plaza she was in was probably the nicest place I saw in my entire time in the town, it was immaculate and very beautiful. Her office was very nice and her back room was also very open, lots of room, very clean. WHile in this office you felt like you could have been in any nice dentist office in the U.S.. Certainly the most comforting office/ambiance of any of the 3.

Receptionist spoke great English and answered my questions without any communication problems. It was a pretty nice experience.

She took me back for the exam. After poking around in my mouth she said that we should do a cleaning first and then she will take some x-rays. After Dentist #1 told me to start taking antibiotics before doing anything I stopped her and told her about the other appointment and that Dentist #1 said I shouldnt' do anything before being on the antibiotics for a few days.

She seemed a bit surprised and told me that they sometimes do that preventively for people who have just had hip replacement or have heart problems, that normally this wasn't required and she didn't see any reason why they would prescribe that for me. She did see the pocket in my gum and agreed that it needed cleaning but that the antibiotic and wash weren't necessary beforehand, although I should continue if I already started.

She then told me that she wasn't really able to give me a full evaluation until she cleans my teeth, that I had so much plaque that it would make the x-rays difficult to read effectively. She didn't want to do an x-ray now (which is free there) and then need to do more x-rays after the cleaning was done. She said she would be happy to wait until the three days if I wanted but that she could only give me partial information until I got a cleaning.

I certainly didn't see this as a money thing. She obviously is doing well and has one of the nicer places I've seen. The cleaning is only $20 and she was more surprised about my refusing than anything. She was friendly but seemed like at this point if I didn't want to proceed I was kind of wasting both of our time, she intimated this in a friendly, professional way. She wrote me up an estimate for what she could definitely see (bridge, deep cleaning) but said she would need to clean and x-ray before she gave me a full quote. She said she didn't see anything she thought would require a root canal but she really couldn't be sure of anything until we did x-rays.

I probably should have just let her clean it and gotten x-rays done, kind of regretting not doing that now (although I can just go back tomorrow and do that). She seemed the most professional of all 3 places. Very nice equipment, nice office, and she was informative.

3 tooth Bridge $600

Cleaning $20

X-rays Free

Deep Cleaning $320 (total, all 4 quads)

After that she doesn't know for sure but here are prices (got from receptionist) for further work I need.

Extractions $70

Filling $50

If I do need a root canal I think she sends you to another office next to hers for that.

Although nobody mentioned any root canals, my wife definitely needs one or more and will be a concern when we begin treatment (I'm the guinea pig).

Once that is all done we can discuss further treatments for restoration.

$940 for cleanings and bridge. Assuming 7 fillings and 2 extractions (from other dentist) that's another $490

Total $1430

I really liked this lady. She didn't charge for anything, didn't try to sell me a wash (forgot to mention Dentist #2 did this), and the place was way more laid back and seemed more professional than Dentist #1. Maybe professional isnt' the right word, they both seemed competent. The other place just seemed very busy, lots of people, like a big group office. While this was a more upscale single practitioner.

 
#2 is out. We're deciding between #1 and #3.

#3 made me feel best, most comforting surrounds, seemed really professional and knowledgeable. Better rates.

#1 took the most time, very thorough, also very professional and explained everything in lots of detail. They have specialists in house and deep cleaning will be done specifically by a periodontist (I don't know how important this is). Felt like they were most thorough and addressed bone loss/gum disease more than anyone else (although to be fair #3 didn't get that far)

A big consideration is my wife, she is petrified of dentist. #3 is more calming but #1 will knock her out (not sure I want to do that in Mexico though).

We have until Friday to decide, that's my first treatment appointment.

I have to head out for a bit but if anyone has any comments or questions I'll check back when I get home.

 
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Gonna need to see a picture of your grill.

*ETA* Why don't you go and get an initial consultation in the US and see if it is in line with the Mexican ones...

 
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Can't wait to get the official FBG dentist's input on this. Especially the "If I require root canal in any of them it is a total of $540 for canal, post, and crown."

 
Very interesting read. I had my two front teeth knock out as a kid and have posts and porcelain crowns for a long time. But now the posts and tooth are broken off and nothing left. Now I need two implants and two crowns. Will set me back about $6k here in the states, which I really don't have. $1500 is much more doable.

 
what's with "dentist 1/2/3" why not list the names of these places for others in your situation? Especially since you kind of vetted them first too.

 
Due to the high cost of some dental procedures in the USA, it is very common for middle and upper class people in Miami to go back to their home countries in South America for dental work, while visiting family. In the big cities - Lima, Bogota, Caracas- and even many smaller cities, there are high quality dentists. Of course, most of these are referrals from family and friends. I know of one person who used the internet to select a dentist. She went to the Domincan Republic and had a nice vacation while getting some dental work done. She was satisfied.

 
cstu said:
#3 seems like an easy call to me.
Click to expand...
I'm leaning towards #3 but #1 had specialists in house. For root canals we'll need to go to someone else and I liked that #1 addressed the bone loss and gum disease so seriously, with periodontist. Can't decide.

 
cstu said:
Cleaning $20

X-rays Free

Deep Cleaning $320 (total, all 4 quads)
Click to expand...
I got all four quads done in Los Angeles and it cost me $260 a quad.
Click to expand...
The $320 is total for all four, not each. The other dentist was $150/quad but they said they wouldn't charge more than $400 and that's if I needed all 4.

 
Big Cat said:
Can't wait to get the official FBG dentist's input on this. Especially the "If I require root canal in any of them it is a total of $540 for canal, post, and crown."
Click to expand...
They gave me some good advice in an earlier forum on this, all of which I'm ignoring unfortunately. I appreciate it and value their opinions I've just made a cost vs. risk decision. They definitely made me aware of the risk. Especially dentist who wished me luck and hoped I didn't end up with oral cancer :)

Seriously though, I really do value their opinions but this is a calculated risk.

 
jon_mx said:
Very interesting read. I had my two front teeth knock out as a kid and have posts and porcelain crowns for a long time. But now the posts and tooth are broken off and nothing left. Now I need two implants and two crowns. Will set me back about $6k here in the states, which I really don't have. $1500 is much more doable.
Click to expand...
I am not getting any implants, definitely not this go around. But I'll update this as my treatment progresses to let everyone know how it goes.

 
Officer Pete Malloy said:
My wife's grandpa got all of his dental work done in T.J. He's dead now.

Just saying.
Click to expand...
I heard he ate a vegetable once, that may have killed him.

Or maybe driving in cars did it. :)

 
ArbyMelt said:
At least get your kids teeth cleaned so,they don't have to go through this
Click to expand...
Although we've neglected our own care we've taken care of our kids. They started young and go to all their dental appoints. We just went when we were home a few months ago. The're not going to go through what we're going through.

 
Wilfredo Ledezma said:
what's with "dentist 1/2/3" why not list the names of these places for others in your situation? Especially since you kind of vetted them first too.
Click to expand...
I'll put names in after the fact, once I'm done.

 
SoBeDad said:
Due to the high cost of some dental procedures in the USA, it is very common for middle and upper class people in Miami to go back to their home countries in South America for dental work, while visiting family. In the big cities - Lima, Bogota, Caracas- and even many smaller cities, there are high quality dentists. Of course, most of these are referrals from family and friends. I know of one person who used the internet to select a dentist. She went to the Domincan Republic and had a nice vacation while getting some dental work done. She was satisfied.
Click to expand...
It's pretty common and getting even more so.

Down here Los Algodones is filled with retirees, all the snowbirds who spend their winters in Yuma and Quartzite.

You wouldn't believe the daily geriatric migration I saw yesterday and today.

 
Hey bro...my gut says to go to #3 to get that cleaning, either tomorrow or the next day and get that full evaluation.

Then go back to #1 and see if anything has changed, if further cleaning is necessary, etc...

i like that #3 admits that they can't really give a full evaluation without fully cleaning. But #1 sounds like they really got in there and have a battle plan with the players all in house...but who knows...they may get in there after the cleaning and find even more necessary and end up adjusting on the fly.

 
Also...didn't you already get an evaluation of sorts in U.S.? Where'd you get the totals for the work you need that we talked about earlier?

 
lombardi said:
#2 is out. We're deciding between #1 and #3.

#3 made me feel best, most comforting surrounds, seemed really professional and knowledgeable. Better rates.

#1 took the most time, very thorough, also very professional and explained everything in lots of detail. They have specialists in house and deep cleaning will be done specifically by a periodontist (I don't know how important this is). Felt like they were most thorough and addressed bone loss/gum disease more than anyone else (although to be fair #3 didn't get that far)

A big consideration is my wife, she is petrified of dentist. #3 is more calming but #1 will knock her out (not sure I want to do that in Mexico though).

We have until Friday to decide, that's my first treatment appointment.

I have to head out for a bit but if anyone has any comments or questions I'll check back when I get home.
Click to expand...
#3 seems good, the scary part is if she hands you off to another dentist for the root canal.

 
Jeebus. Almost makes me glad that I've worked for the man at the same mega corporation for 30+ years. GB dental coverage. While some co-workers go to the same dentist who accepts what insurance pays- making their visits free!- I go to a top shelf dentist and even ante up for 3 "deep" cleanings/year to avoid what I went through with one or two. They're you friggin' chompers, man! They have to last you hopefully 70+ years!!

I can only imagine what your "deep cleanings" will be like. They may have to admit you...

:scared:

Edited to add that I just ran to the bathroom and flossed. And I hate flossing. :yucky:

 
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I understand all of the fear and concern people have about going to the dentist in Mexico and I know there are risks associated with it. However, I think our superiority complex is a little overblown. The problem in Mexico is that it is rife with corruption and there is no governing body or legislative protection if things go wrong. Basically if you pick the wrong guy or have a bad experience you have no recourse and there isn't any consumer protection.

However, that doesn't mean that there aren't dentists who do a great job. Not everyone who lives in Mexico is a chiclet pushing peasant living in a tin roofed shack. There are professionals there, there is culture, there is even some money. I think in the U.S. we have this impression that everyone who lives in Mexico is the same person we see begging on the corner of Tijuana and it's just not true. There are ton of very successful, professional, moral, and wonderful people, just like in most other places in the world. There is an American arrogance we have that anything done or made outside of our country is automatically inferior.

Don't get me wrong, if I had the money I would go to an American dentist. That money would buy me consumer protection, accountability, and a higher likelihood of quality medical care, especially if anything did go wrong. However, that doesn't mean that Mexico is completely devoid of quality care. Millions of Mexicans go to their dentists and doctors in Mexico every day.

If anything Mexico is more like the libertarian utopia so many people beg for in this country. No regulation, no pesky government oversight. The market decides. Those that do a good job get rewarded with good referrals, long lasting businesses, and the ability to charge slightly higher prices and maintain a client base. Those that do a poor job are driven out of business by the quality of their product. I thinks that's kind of crazy, there needs to be a bunch of bad experiences by people before those poorly run businesses are run out of town but that sure sounds a lot like what I hear libertarians and many conservatives (like myself) espousing when they get all free-market frothy.

I'm not saying it's better in Mexico, as a rule the system is not. I'm just saying there are services that are great in Mexico but it's more difficult to identify them there and you don't have the consumer protections that you have here, which is reflected in the prices you pay and the risk you are taking.

 
tdoss said:
Also...didn't you already get an evaluation of sorts in U.S.? Where'd you get the totals for the work you need that we talked about earlier?
Click to expand...
My wife got an evaluation about 8 months ago and that spurred a lot of this on. The exorbitant cost and our need for serious care as we were getting older, without crippling our ability to help provide for our children's not too distant future education. She hasn't gone yet but it will be interesting to see what the comparison is between the care suggested and what we heard here in the states.

Someone mentioned going to a free evaluation here in the sates to compare it with. I considered this but ethically I felt wrong going to a dentist who is offering a free evaluation in exchange for the possibility to win you over as a long term client when for me that's an impossibility. Even if I decided to spend more money on a U.S. dentist I don't live in the area. I would hate for someone to take advantage of me in my business that way and didn't feel right doing it to someone else.

I've considered paying a dentist and asking him to take a look. Do some x-rays after I get some of the work done and let me know if it looks like total crap of if they're doing an ok job. I don't know if I could find a dentist who would do that, but I've thought about it.

 
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