What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Justice Department says it will end use of private prisons (1 Viewer)

It's going to take some time to scale back the current contracts and at any point during that time the policy can be changed.  I don't really care one way or the other, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 
Wow.

I'm not surprised at the findings, but surprised they will actually stop the privatization.

Jail is big business, a lot of people just lost millions.

And I completely agree that some things should not be privatized (cough cough school ahem cough healthcare).

 
good news, hope it actually happens.

now release the people incarcerated for marijuana possession.

 
This has always seemed like an essential governmental function. I have never understood the conservative desire to do this stuff privately, seems totally unconstitutional.

 
This has always seemed like an essential governmental function. I have never understood the conservative desire to do this stuff privately, seems totally unconstitutional.
Would you expand a bit on your thoughts pertaining to the constitutionality of the activity? I have never given that matter much thought.

 
The profit motive should have been turned towards reducing recidivism. 

As it is now, more prisoners = more tax dollars

 
This has always seemed like an essential governmental function. I have never understood the conservative desire to do this stuff privately, seems totally unconstitutional.
It is easy to understand the desire....their pockets are being lined with donations

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Would you expand a bit on your thoughts pertaining to the constitutionality of the activity? I have never given that matter much thought.
The unconstitutional aspect I see is that private prisons make it more difficult to ensure that prisoners are not deprived of their 8th amendment rights to 'no cruel or unusual punishment'.  It is the government's job to protect prisoners but how can they do that if they are not in charge of the prisons?

 
About the only good thing i can say about the Obama years is that it stemmed the move toward privatization of our institutions. If another Haliiburton administration had succeeded AlfredEBush, schools and godknows what else would be fully in the hands of profiteers.

 
This has always seemed like an essential governmental function. I have never understood the conservative desire to do this stuff privately, seems totally unconstitutional.
It seems to fit perfectly in line with conservative thought.  Conservative criticism of government is that it's wasteful in its spending of taxpayer dollars.  There is also a belief that profit motive and competition will spur on efficiency and innovation and cut costs to the rest of society.  Also, if you view government monolithially, the government has perverse incentive to acquire more prisoners to justify more spending.

The downside, of course is that the standard of care suffers due to the profit motive.  In order to make model work, a lot of oversight is needed and/ or the business model would need to be redesigned to incentivize the behaviors we would like to see ( possible?)

 
The unconstitutional aspect I see is that private prisons make it more difficult to ensure that prisoners are not deprived of their 8th amendment rights to 'no cruel or unusual punishment'.  It is the government's job to protect prisoners but how can they do that if they are not in charge of the prisons?
So the question is whether government can contract out services involving very central constitutional rights, not some rights taken from a penumbra, but right smack dab in the Bill of Rights.  I will mull the matter over.  Thanks for the clarification.

 
Now that you edited it, I understand your post. But old people have a pretty good single payer system going now. Are they really opposed to it? And won't we just have more old people in the future?
Oh they love their single payer, just don't want people under 65 to get it.

 
The unconstitutional aspect I see is that private prisons make it more difficult to ensure that prisoners are not deprived of their 8th amendment rights to 'no cruel or unusual punishment'.  It is the government's job to protect prisoners but how can they do that if they are not in charge of the prisons?
Generally, when a private corporation assumes government functions, they assume Constitutional responsibilities.  For instance, I have successfully sued a private health care provider who provided care at a prison.  Now that was a 1983 case, which applies to states and municipalities (and companies stepping in the shoes of municipalities) but federal Blevins rights cases are generally treated the same way.

In fact, private prison guards are at a disadvantage to state employed prison guards because private guards don't get qualified immunity.

 
Generally, when a private corporation assumes government functions, they assume Constitutional responsibilities.  For instance, I have successfully sued a private health care provider who provided care at a prison.  Now that was a 1983 case, which applies to states and municipalities (and companies stepping in the shoes of municipalities) but federal Blevins rights cases are generally treated the same way.

In fact, private prison guards are at a disadvantage to state employed prison guards because private guards don't get qualified immunity.
Interesting.  Doing some reading it appears that inmates have been unable to sue private federal prisons since 2012.  However, inmates actually have more power to sue under state tort laws in private vs. public prisons. Link1 Link2

 
The FTCA waives sovereign immunity only for acts of employees of the government. Government employees are defined to include (among others) officers, employees, and persons working on behalf of “any federal agency,” and “federal agency,” in turn, specifically excludes contractors.
Seems like the FTCA is a violation of the 8th Amendment.

 
Interesting.  Doing some reading it appears that inmates have been unable to sue private federal prisons since 2012.  However, inmates actually have more power to sue under state tort laws in private vs. public prisons. Link1 Link2
That's a bit of a misreading.  Inmates cannot sue privately run federal prisons under Blevins provided that state tort laws provide a comparable remedy.  As private prisons are not immune from state wrongful death torts in the way that state run prisons are, the suits proceed as wrongful death actions.  If there is no comparable state tort available (which would seem unlikely, but not impossible as a state could limit their wrongful death actions) then a Blevins suit is available. 

 
Count me in the camp of I'll believe it when I see it. If Clinton wins the White House, this will not happen. Two large donors to her campaign are agencies that represent private prison providers. 

 
Now that you edited it, I understand your post. But old people have a pretty good single payer system going now. Are they really opposed to it? And won't we just have more old people in the future?
Yes there will be more old people. Difference is, as you can see with the demographics of Bernie supporters, there's a very distinct and overwhelming generational gap in how Americans think about their health care. I don't know an exact age of current citizens people start to oppose our current system, but as today's youth age, it's pretty obvious the minority right now will quickly become the majority.

 
Yes there will be more old people. Difference is, as you can see with the demographics of Bernie supporters, there's a very distinct and overwhelming generational gap in how Americans think about their health care. I don't know an exact age of current citizens people start to oppose our current system, but as today's youth age, it's pretty obvious the minority right now will quickly become the majority.
Allowing people 50+ to opt into Medicare would be a good start. Without looking up tables, the 49 and under cohort who are generally "the healthies" can stay in the group plans, let the insurance companies work with employers on that, and then single payer afterward. You see a lot of people hanging on to work because of health insurance. Want to open up the employment glut keeping the younger Millennials employment rates down? Let people rely less on employer-based healthcare as they get older.

 
Good news, but this is just the Feds. The state level is where some of the worst stuff happens with judges/police getting kickbacks from the prisons.

 
This issue is much more complex than just private businesses pushing for more prisoners and longer sentences.  Google the California Correctional Peace Officers Association.  That's a prison guard's union (of state employees) who have pushed for the very same things that the private prison industry is accused of doing, quite successfully. 

This is a conservative (and libertarian) policy.  It means fewer state employees receiving lavish pensions and benefits on the public dole.  It hasn't worked very well in many cases and I can see the reasoning in ending the program.  But the left-wing critique does not hold up.  The government unions (who are almost entirely democrats) have been active in promoting the very policies that the left criticizes the private prisons of doing, and in many case they have been better at it than the private prison companies.

https://capitalresearch.org/2011/10/the-price-of-prison-guard-unions-2/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/california-prison-guards_n_3894490.html

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2004/05/26/359/29521/inmatesandprisons/The-Scam-of-the-California-Prison-Guards-Union

I doubt very much that having the prisons be government-run operations will stop the influence-peddling that has crowded our prisons. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top