K-9 Vick out for the year? (1 Viewer)

[thayman]

Link

Ernest Hardy, 56, is the closest neighbor to Vick's former property. Hardy has lived in his double-wide trailer there since 1973. "I have a natural gift for observing things," Hardy said, "and I haven't seen or heard any evidence of dogfighting. If it had been going on, it seems like I should have heard something.

"I might be totally dumb on this and missed it, but I thought he was just a lover of dogs. I mean, those dogs were living better than some people."

Vick has said that he rarely spend time on the property, telling the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "I'm never at the house."

"I've talked to (Vick) on his back porch," Hardy said. "He's saying he's never there. I'm not saying he's lying, but saying he's never there makes him look suspicious.

"But it's not like he's there all the time. If he had the property six years, he might have spent the equivalent of two weeks there."

The first "named" source we have seems to back up Vick's claim of rarely being there (being there 14 total days in 6 years is basically not ever being there) and didn't ever notice anything odd going on.VICK IS INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES. I hope his lawyers can find a way to sue for slander.

Sue who? I haven't seen anyone other than on this board make any claims about Vick.

Two different sources in law enforcement say NFL quarterback Michael Vick not only knew about the dog fighting at a house he owned, but that he was an active participant at the fights that allegedly took place behind the house.

www.wvec.com

Landry also said that Vick was actively recruiting teammates to become involved in the "sport."

www.620wdae.com

The informant “will place him at these dog fights, yes,” said Kathy Strouse , a member of the Virginia Animal Fighting Task Force

content.hamptonroads.comIF Vick's charged & found innocent, looks like there's lots of choices for Vick's attorney to go after for slander, or defamation of character, if he so chooses.

Some laywers on here will probably have to explain it and go through it. But he can't sue for slander, at least none of those sources. It's all just talking about the case, or law enforcement officals talking about it. That's not slander.

 

[BigRed]

PS I don't get how the relevance how "common" dog fighting is or isn't, other than just a thinking-out-loud curiousity. It has no bearing on this.

You're right BR, it doesn't have any direct bearing to Vick.However, we've got people right here on this very board, who are under the impression that dog fighting is a fairly rare occurence & isolated to the US. If there's people who think that way here, you know the rest of our society is equally oblivious to the severity of this problem.

So, indirectly, if the only good thing to come out of all of this, is that it opens peoples eyes to just how serious, prevelant & widespread of a problem dog fighting really is, I can only see that as a positive.

Really more suitable for the Tailgate, but hey, if the opportunity to maybe do some good & educate some folks presents itself, why not take advantage?

wurd. I'm down wif dat

 

[BigRed]

If he's been involved and if they have enough evidence to get a conviction, I think he'll get more than 3 or 4 games due to the seriousness of the crime and his past transgressions. Of course, that may not matter since he could see a good amount of jail time. 5 years in prison is possible.

LMFAO @ 5 yrs. If he gets 5 days I'd be shocked. I'm still amazed Curruth is in prison. Felony schmelony, nobody's perfect.NFL-wise, yeah they might get REALLY tough....maybe 6 or 8 game suspension (cue suspense music) !! Nothing to see here people, just the latest in a long line of nauseating crime by slimeballs who should be in jail but instead are multi-millionaire "stars" and laugh all the way to the bank as they think of "ordinary" people (who work for a living and oh btw don't commit felonies) paying ridiculous prices for tickets, jerseys, etc etc.Hilarious, isn't it? Let's go giggle with Portis and Samuels. :X

 

[flufhed]

Even if what those guys said could be viewed as slander, truth is always an absolute defense to slander. In a civil proceeding you would only have to prove it is more likely than not the statements were true. Totally different from the "beyond a reasonable doubt" you would have to prove to get a criminal conviction. In other words, Vick could easily beat the case, and yet still be unable to win a civil suit for slander. The two have zero to do wih each other.

 

[Big Score]

Even if what those guys said could be viewed as slander, truth is always an absolute defense to slander. In a civil proceeding you would only have to prove it is more likely than not the statements were true. Totally different from the "beyond a reasonable doubt" you would have to prove to get a criminal conviction. In other words, Vick could easily beat the case, and yet still be unable to win a civil suit for slander. The two have zero to do wih each other.

Well I don't really know a whole lot about all the ins & outs of the law. I know if he's charged and the verdict comes back "Not Guilty", that's a lot different than the verdict coming back "Innocent of All Charges".

So IF Vick's charged & IF the verdict comes back "Innocent of All Charges", would that give Vick's attorney a better chance at a civil suit, if they chose to pursue it?

I honestly don't know & am just curious.

 

[Big Score]

Link

Ernest Hardy, 56, is the closest neighbor to Vick's former property. Hardy has lived in his double-wide trailer there since 1973. "I have a natural gift for observing things," Hardy said, "and I haven't seen or heard any evidence of dogfighting. If it had been going on, it seems like I should have heard something.

"I might be totally dumb on this and missed it, but I thought he was just a lover of dogs. I mean, those dogs were living better than some people."

Vick has said that he rarely spend time on the property, telling the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "I'm never at the house."

"I've talked to (Vick) on his back porch," Hardy said. "He's saying he's never there. I'm not saying he's lying, but saying he's never there makes him look suspicious.

"But it's not like he's there all the time. If he had the property six years, he might have spent the equivalent of two weeks there."

The first "named" source we have seems to back up Vick's claim of rarely being there (being there 14 total days in 6 years is basically not ever being there) and didn't ever notice anything odd going on.VICK IS INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES. I hope his lawyers can find a way to sue for slander.

Sue who? I haven't seen anyone other than on this board make any claims about Vick.

Two different sources in law enforcement say NFL quarterback Michael Vick not only knew about the dog fighting at a house he owned, but that he was an active participant at the fights that allegedly took place behind the house.

www.wvec.com

Landry also said that Vick was actively recruiting teammates to become involved in the "sport."

www.620wdae.com

The informant “will place him at these dog fights, yes,” said Kathy Strouse , a member of the Virginia Animal Fighting Task Force

content.hamptonroads.comIF Vick's charged & found innocent, looks like there's lots of choices for Vick's attorney to go after for slander, or defamation of character, if he so chooses.

Some laywers on here will probably have to explain it and go through it. But he can't sue for slander, at least none of those sources. It's all just talking about the case, or law enforcement officals talking about it. That's not slander.

So law enforcement is exempt because they're talking about the case. That does make sense.But what about Landry, the radio DJ?

He's point blank saying Vick goes out & recruits others to get involved in dog fighting & as a radio host, you know he's putting that out there in front of an awful lot of people.

If Vick's charged & then found innocent (BIG if), wouldn't that be slander, or defamation of character?

Again, just curious.

 

[zadok]

So law enforcement is exempt because they're talking about the case. That does make sense.But what about Landry, the radio DJ? He's point blank saying Vick goes out & recruits others to get involved in dog fighting & as a radio host, you know he's putting that out there in front of an awful lot of people.If Vick's charged & then found innocent (BIG if), wouldn't that be slander, or defamation of character?Again, just curious.

Wouldn't that fall under the "in the public eye" category. IE Politicians get slandered and defamed on a daily basis, but they could never sue.

 

[Big Score]

So law enforcement is exempt because they're talking about the case. That does make sense.But what about Landry, the radio DJ? He's point blank saying Vick goes out & recruits others to get involved in dog fighting & as a radio host, you know he's putting that out there in front of an awful lot of people.If Vick's charged & then found innocent (BIG if), wouldn't that be slander, or defamation of character?Again, just curious.

Wouldn't that fall under the "in the public eye" category. IE Politicians get slandered and defamed on a daily basis, but they could never sue.

Dunno about the "in the public eye" category. Movie Stars are always suing the media for slander & defamation.

 

[mad sweeney]

Even if what those guys said could be viewed as slander, truth is always an absolute defense to slander. In a civil proceeding you would only have to prove it is more likely than not the statements were true. Totally different from the "beyond a reasonable doubt" you would have to prove to get a criminal conviction. In other words, Vick could easily beat the case, and yet still be unable to win a civil suit for slander. The two have zero to do wih each other.

Well I don't really know a whole lot about all the ins & outs of the law. I know if he's charged and the verdict comes back "Not Guilty", that's a lot different than the verdict coming back "Innocent of All Charges".

So IF Vick's charged & IF the verdict comes back "Innocent of All Charges", would that give Vick's attorney a better chance at a civil suit, if they chose to pursue it?

I honestly don't know & am just curious.

Again, the lawyers would then have to prove that all those statements were lies. And we all know that there are a thousand ways to be found innocent when the facts or statements against you are true. It is extremely hard to win a slander case. The example of politicians was used earlier, watch the Tonight Show any night and there would seem to be plenty of slanderous material. Movie stars too. On very few occasions they win libel cases against rags like the Enquirer but it is few and far between. And if you look at percentages of seemingly obvious false stories vs libel suits vs plaintiff wins it would seem to me that winning a suit of that kind would be near impossible. I mean, literally all the witnesses would have to do is say that they must have been mistaken, that one of Vick's cousins looked like him and they thought it was him. Mistaken ID is not slander. But I think that if Vick is exonoerrated, despite his seeming ignorance of the definition, he will want to put it as far past him as possible and distance himself from the whole mess.

 

[Big Score]

Even if what those guys said could be viewed as slander, truth is always an absolute defense to slander. In a civil proceeding you would only have to prove it is more likely than not the statements were true. Totally different from the "beyond a reasonable doubt" you would have to prove to get a criminal conviction. In other words, Vick could easily beat the case, and yet still be unable to win a civil suit for slander. The two have zero to do wih each other.

Well I don't really know a whole lot about all the ins & outs of the law. I know if he's charged and the verdict comes back "Not Guilty", that's a lot different than the verdict coming back "Innocent of All Charges".

So IF Vick's charged & IF the verdict comes back "Innocent of All Charges", would that give Vick's attorney a better chance at a civil suit, if they chose to pursue it?

I honestly don't know & am just curious.

Again, the lawyers would then have to prove that all those statements were lies. And we all know that there are a thousand ways to be found innocent when the facts or statements against you are true. It is extremely hard to win a slander case. The example of politicians was used earlier, watch the Tonight Show any night and there would seem to be plenty of slanderous material. Movie stars too. On very few occasions they win libel cases against rags like the Enquirer but it is few and far between. And if you look at percentages of seemingly obvious false stories vs libel suits vs plaintiff wins it would seem to me that winning a suit of that kind would be near impossible. I mean, literally all the witnesses would have to do is say that they must have been mistaken, that one of Vick's cousins looked like him and they thought it was him. Mistaken ID is not slander. But I think that if Vick is exonoerrated, despite his seeming ignorance of the definition, he will want to put it as far past him as possible and distance himself from the whole mess.

That all makes sense to me. Thanks mad sweeney.

 

[2stix]

Has anybody heard anything about The falcons making a last minute play for Trent Green?Nothing solid, but PFT says:

There's talk/speculation/conjecture/rumor in league circles that the Atlanta Falcons might make an eleventh-hour run at disgruntled Chiefs quarterback Trent Green, who is doing everything he can to get out of Kansas City.The primary reason for the Falcons' belated interest in Green is that folks inside the building believe that there's a 50-50 chance that Vick will be suspended by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell in connection with a still-unfolding dog-fighting investigation. Even if the suspension is just for a game or two, the stigma could be enough to make the team decide to go in a different direction, even before finding out whether Vick can succeed in new coach Bobby Petrino's offense

 

[Big Score]

Has anybody heard anything about The falcons making a last minute play for Trent Green?Nothing solid, but PFT says:

There's talk/speculation/conjecture/rumor in league circles that the Atlanta Falcons might make an eleventh-hour run at disgruntled Chiefs quarterback Trent Green, who is doing everything he can to get out of Kansas City.The primary reason for the Falcons' belated interest in Green is that folks inside the building believe that there's a 50-50 chance that Vick will be suspended by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell in connection with a still-unfolding dog-fighting investigation. Even if the suspension is just for a game or two, the stigma could be enough to make the team decide to go in a different direction, even before finding out whether Vick can succeed in new coach Bobby Petrino's offense

Not a peep about Green from local media coverage here in Atlanta.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Over 60 dogs to be euthanized

 

[Raskell5]

Goodel Slams Portis

 

[fatness]

Over 60 dogs to be euthanized

They took his dogs and now they're going to kill them?

 

[Big Score]

Over 60 dogs to be euthanized

They took his dogs and now they're going to kill them?

Once seized, that's what happens to fighting dogs, regardless of who owns them. They've been bred & trained for one thing & one thing only. Rehabilitation or retraining is rarely successful. Just too dangerous to allow adoption.

 

[BigRed]

Goodel Slams Portis

"I'm extremely disappointed and embarrassed for Clinton Portis," Goodell said in a written statement following a one-day NFL owners' meeting. "This does not reflect the sentiments of the Redskins, the NFL or NFL players."LOL @ calling this "slamming" Portis. Yeah he really ripped him a new one

Prepare for more similarly lightweight patty-cake BS and precious little if anything happening to that classy guy Vick, as I figured all along.

 

[Raskell5]

Goodel Slams Portis

"I'm extremely disappointed and embarrassed for Clinton Portis," Goodell said in a written statement following a one-day NFL owners' meeting. "This does not reflect the sentiments of the Redskins, the NFL or NFL players."LOL @ calling this "slamming" Portis. Yeah he really ripped him a new one

Prepare for more similarly lightweight patty-cake BS and precious little if anything happening to that classy guy Vick, as I figured all along.

Read the title of the article. "Goodell slams remarks by Portis". Not my words.

 

[BigRed]

Read the title of the article. "Goodell slams remarks by Portis". Not my words.

Never said they were.

 

[3C's]

Over 60 dogs to be euthanized

This is the saddest part of it:He also said that prolonged dogfighting investigations and trials often lead to higher euthanasia rates among other dogs because the seized animals take up kennel space that is needed to house adoptable pets.

 

[fatness]

Over 60 dogs to be euthanized

They took his dogs and now they're going to kill them?

Once seized, that's what happens to fighting dogs, regardless of who owns them. They've been bred & trained for one thing & one thing only. Rehabilitation or retraining is rarely successful. Just too dangerous to allow adoption.

What I'm wondering about is the "we took the dogs from him to save them, and now kill them" part. We humans are good at rationalizing reasons that that makes sense, but fundmentally it doesn't. Professed concern for the welfare of dogs is quite limited, it seems. They were living in cages; soon they will be killed; people will feel the right thing has been done.

 

[mad sweeney]

Over 60 dogs to be euthanized

They took his dogs and now they're going to kill them?

Once seized, that's what happens to fighting dogs, regardless of who owns them. They've been bred & trained for one thing & one thing only. Rehabilitation or retraining is rarely successful. Just too dangerous to allow adoption.

What I'm wondering about is the "we took the dogs from him to save them, and now kill them" part. We humans are good at rationalizing reasons that that makes sense, but fundmentally it doesn't. Professed concern for the welfare of dogs is quite limited, it seems. They were living in cages; soon they will be killed; people will feel the right thing has been done.

Where else should they live? They are unfit for cohabitation with humans. Let them loose in the wild and have feral packs of pit bulls? They have to be kept separate from each other or they will just kill each other. It's a lose lose situation. The only thing they are spared is the further pain of fighting and a merciless death. Once these dogs were trained to fight the were dead, whether shot in the back of the head greyhound style, ripped to pieces in the ring or euthanized in a shelter. The problem is in the definition of "save". Their lives could not be saved but further injury and deprived conditions can be alleviated. Further reasons why dog fighting is such a disgusting practice. Once this is realized then hopefully some of those that don't think dog fighting is that bad will rethink their position. A fighting dog is a dead dog. And just because the people going in to clean up the mess are the ones pushing the plunger doesn't mean they are the ones doing the killing. The trainers and breeders doomed their dogs the minute they bred them to fight. Think of it this way, is a Doctor pulling the plug on a terminal patient in pain the actual killer or is it the disease?

 

[heidbrink]

Just to summarize a few of the highlights (lowlights) with our friend Mr. Vick over the past year...

April 24, 2006, 21:53

Falcons :: QB

Falcons QB Vick Settles Lawsuit With Woman

NFL.com - [Full Article]

Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, also known as "Ron Mexico", settled a lawsuit with a woman who claims that Vick knowingly gave her a sexually transmitted disease. When asked if the details of the settlement would be disclosed, attorney Lawrence Woodward said, "The only comment I've got is the case has been resolved."

...

July 9, 2006, 09:33

Falcons :: QB

QB Mi.Vick's Dedication Questioned?

George Henry, free lance writer, Sporting News - [Full Article]

QB Michael Vick failed to take command last season as the team lost six of its last eight games and missed the playoffs. Some teammates privately complained that Vick too often was one of the last to arrive to the team facility, and one of the first to leave. It's time for Vick to elevate his level of motivation and be the leader the team needs.

...

August 23, 2006, 07:10

Falcons :: QB

QB Vick Misses Practice To Attend Funeral

D. Orlando Ledbetter, Atlanta Journal-Constitution - [Full Article]

Falcons QB Michael Vick was excused from practice Tuesday to attend the funeral of a former college teammate. Vick attended the funeral of Derek Sadar Carter, 29, of Dunwoody, a former teammate at Virginia Tech. Carter was murdered Aug. 14 in Lawrenceville during a drug deal that erupted into a shootout, police said.

...

November 26, 2006, 23:11

Falcons :: QB

Falcons QB Vick Apologizes For Obscene Gesture

NFL.com - [Full Article]

Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick apologized on Sunday shortly after the team's Week 12 loss to the New Orleans Saints. Vick had made an obscene gesture with both hands after being heckled by a few remaining fans in the Georgia Dome following the game. "First and foremost, I would like to apologize for my inappropriate actions with fans today," Vick said. "I was frustrated and upset at how the game was going for my team, and that frustration came out the wrong way."

...

January 18, 2007, 01:04

Falcons :: QB

QB Vick Caught With Bottle With Secret Compartment

WMTW-TV - [Full Article]

Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick had a water bottle confiscated by authorities at the Miami International Airport on Wednesday after airport officials discovered that the 20 oz. Aquafina bottle and the bottle's label concealed a seam, which separated the top and the bottom of the bottle. The lower compartment contained a small amount of a dark particulate and officials described a pungent aroma they closely associated with marijuana. The bottle is currently being analyzed at a Miami-Dade Police Department lab, and Vick is not currently facing any charges.

...

April 27, 2007, 01:47

Falcons :: QB

Falcons QB Vick Charged With Trespassing

Hampton Roads Daily Press - [Full Article]

Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was scheduled to appear in court on Thursday on charges of trespassing. He was allegedly fishing on a lake where fishing was not permitted. The class three misdemeanor is punishable by a fine of up to $500.

... And of course ...

May 10, 2007, 10:09

Falcons :: QB

QB Vick Knew About Dog Fighting Ring?

Don Banks, SportsIllustrated.com - [Full Article]

Multiple sources, who have known Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick for years, said they were convinced the quarterback has been involved with the illegal dog-fighting ring that authorities believe they discovered last month. "He knows what's going on in that house in Virginia," one source said. "There's not a doubt in my mind he's involved with it." Another source cited Vick's longtime "affinity" for the dog-fighting subculture, and was certain that Vick was aware of what was going on.

 

[komments]

I guess the feeling is that euthanasia is more humane than allowing the dogs to fight and be mauled on a continuing basis. These dogs are dangerous.

Here is what I have taken from this whole situation.

One, it is serious because it is a felony. I don't recall if Vick is on probation, but I do know he has had other troubles (Ron Mexico anyone). I also know Arthur Blank is getting pretty fed up with him. And he pays the checks.

Two, Miami better get off their duffs or Green MAY go to Atlanta. Not saying that will happen but it IS a possibility.

Three, Clinton Portis is clueless. He thinks committing a felony is okay if it is done "on his property with his dogs"? That is nuts. And he compounded the problem on the NFL network when he tried to clarify his remarks. I have lost a lot of respect for Rod Woodson and Rich Eison. Talk about your softball questions. The minute Portis reiterated that it was no big deal because it was done on his property they should have asked which felonies were not okay to commit on his property. The fact is dog fighting is illegal and it is NOT a misdemeanor. Which makes it a very big deal.

Four, Chris Samuels is much brighter than Clinton Portis. Samuels realized the scope of his mistake almost immediately. Portis compounded his mistake by going on the NFL Network and throwing gas on the fire.

 

[2stix]

Has anybody heard anything about The falcons making a last minute play for Trent Green?

Nothing solid, but PFT says:

There's talk/speculation/conjecture/rumor in league circles that the Atlanta Falcons might make an eleventh-hour run at disgruntled Chiefs quarterback Trent Green, who is doing everything he can to get out of Kansas City.

The primary reason for the Falcons' belated interest in Green is that folks inside the building believe that there's a 50-50 chance that Vick will be suspended by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell in connection with a still-unfolding dog-fighting investigation. Even if the suspension is just for a game or two, the stigma could be enough to make the team decide to go in a different direction, even before finding out whether Vick can succeed in new coach Bobby Petrino's offense

Not a peep about Green from local media coverage here in Atlanta.

It may not be Green, but, they may be looking for a QB nonethelessPer PFT

We continue to hear rumors and rumblings from league insiders regarding the current thought processes currently unfolding in the headquarters of the Atlanta Falcons.

Earlier today, we posted an item about rumors in league circles that the Falcons could be a late entry in the Trent Green sweepstakes. And we're continuing to hear more and more talk from league insiders regarding the looming possibility that Mike Vick won't be a member of the Falcons when the 2007 season begins.

Per one source, there's a growing belief that the NFL is privy to more information about the still-developing investigation into a dog-fighting ring that was uncovered at Vick's property in Virginia -- and that the information available to the league tends to support (not refute) the notion that Vick was aware of and/or involved in the activities occurring on the property he owned.

Surely, the NFL and the Falcons have been using their own security resources to get a better handle on the question of whether and to what extent there's a connection between Vick and dog fighting. And if the league and/or the team have learned that there is evidence that tends to increase the chances of a prosecution and/or a conviction, it makes sense for the league and/or the team to begin planning for all potential outcomes.

There's a school of thought that if Vick is ultimately suspended by Commissioner Roger Goodell for any portion of the 2007 season, the Falcons will simply cut him. Of course, the team would then be subject to a non-injury grievance for all or part of his $6 million salary, but teams now seem to be more and more inclined to dump a guy for disciplinary purposes and then deal with the financial consequences in due course.

We also continue to hear that the Falcons are looking for a veteran quarterback. Though the source with whom we spoke this afternoon has not heard Trent Green's name as a possibility, the source says that the Falcons definitely are pondering very carefully the possibilities at the position.

 

[BigRed]

I guess the feeling is that euthanasia is more humane than allowing the dogs to fight and be mauled on a continuing basis. These dogs are dangerous.Here is what I have taken from this whole situation.One, it is serious because it is a felony. I don't recall if Vick is on probation, but I do know he has had other troubles (Ron Mexico anyone). I also know Arthur Blank is getting pretty fed up with him. And he pays the checks.Two, Miami better get off their duffs or Green MAY go to Atlanta. Not saying that will happen but it IS a possibility.Three, Clinton Portis is clueless. He thinks committing a felony is okay if it is done "on his property with his dogs"? That is nuts. And he compounded the problem on the NFL network when he tried to clarify his remarks. I have lost a lot of respect for Rod Woodson and Rich Eison. Talk about your softball questions. The minute Portis reiterated that it was no big deal because it was done on his property they should have asked which felonies were not okay to commit on his property. The fact is dog fighting is illegal and it is NOT a misdemeanor. Which makes it a very big deal.Four, Chris Samuels is much brighter than Clinton Portis. Samuels realized the scope of his mistake almost immediately. Portis compounded his mistake by going on the NFL Network and throwing gas on the fire.

Have to admit I'm totally baffled why pretty much anyone would be surprised by an apologist/shill attitude from anyone at ESPN towards ball players, esp the "stars." It's one of their defining characteristics (and a primary reason why I never watch it - in fact I would be very happy if it went away tomorrow). Just once I'd like to see one of these "sports reporter" bozos rip into a player 60 Minutes-like.As for Samuels being smarter than Portis, isn't that kind of like saying Iran is a better place to live than Iraq Re. Trent Green, I doubt it, but you're right, stranger things have happened. It might make the Fins sweat a little though and up the offer a bit.

 

[mad sweeney]

Has anybody heard anything about The falcons making a last minute play for Trent Green?

Nothing solid, but PFT says:

There's talk/speculation/conjecture/rumor in league circles that the Atlanta Falcons might make an eleventh-hour run at disgruntled Chiefs quarterback Trent Green, who is doing everything he can to get out of Kansas City.

The primary reason for the Falcons' belated interest in Green is that folks inside the building believe that there's a 50-50 chance that Vick will be suspended by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell in connection with a still-unfolding dog-fighting investigation. Even if the suspension is just for a game or two, the stigma could be enough to make the team decide to go in a different direction, even before finding out whether Vick can succeed in new coach Bobby Petrino's offense

Not a peep about Green from local media coverage here in Atlanta.

It may not be Green, but, they may be looking for a QB nonethelessPer PFT

We continue to hear rumors and rumblings from league insiders regarding the current thought processes currently unfolding in the headquarters of the Atlanta Falcons.

Earlier today, we posted an item about rumors in league circles that the Falcons could be a late entry in the Trent Green sweepstakes. And we're continuing to hear more and more talk from league insiders regarding the looming possibility that Mike Vick won't be a member of the Falcons when the 2007 season begins.

Per one source, there's a growing belief that the NFL is privy to more information about the still-developing investigation into a dog-fighting ring that was uncovered at Vick's property in Virginia -- and that the information available to the league tends to support (not refute) the notion that Vick was aware of and/or involved in the activities occurring on the property he owned.

Surely, the NFL and the Falcons have been using their own security resources to get a better handle on the question of whether and to what extent there's a connection between Vick and dog fighting. And if the league and/or the team have learned that there is evidence that tends to increase the chances of a prosecution and/or a conviction, it makes sense for the league and/or the team to begin planning for all potential outcomes.

There's a school of thought that if Vick is ultimately suspended by Commissioner Roger Goodell for any portion of the 2007 season, the Falcons will simply cut him. Of course, the team would then be subject to a non-injury grievance for all or part of his $6 million salary, but teams now seem to be more and more inclined to dump a guy for disciplinary purposes and then deal with the financial consequences in due course.

We also continue to hear that the Falcons are looking for a veteran quarterback. Though the source with whom we spoke this afternoon has not heard Trent Green's name as a possibility, the source says that the Falcons definitely are pondering very carefully the possibilities at the position.

The bolded parts are reasons why i don't buy into any of the Vick defender's theories of innocence. In addition I am quite sure the authorities have a lot more info than has been reported. It seems very hard for me to believe he had no knowledge of it at all.

 

[hutchins929]

Well I don't really know a whole lot about all the ins & outs of the law.

I know if he's charged and the verdict comes back "Not Guilty", that's a lot different than the verdict coming back "Innocent of All Charges".

So IF Vick's charged & IF the verdict comes back "Innocent of All Charges", would that give Vick's attorney a better chance at a civil suit, if they chose to pursue it?

I honestly don't know & am just curious.

From what I recall from criminal justice class in high school. If it goes to trial and he enters a plea of not guilty. Than "Innocent of all charges" goes out the window. He could be found "Guilty" or "Not Guilty". Their is a big difference between "Not Guilty" and "Innocent". Innocent means that he didn't do it, while "Not Guilty" simply means that they can't prove that he did it. For instance O.J. was found Not Guilty of murder, but was still liable for wrongful death.

 

[jgb95]

I will be a VERY HAPPY man if Mike and Marcus are pumping gas by July!!!!

I just can't stand either of them and their "I'm above the law" mentality.

 

[SSOG]

Goodel Slams Portis

"I'm extremely disappointed and embarrassed for Clinton Portis," Goodell said in a written statement following a one-day NFL owners' meeting. "This does not reflect the sentiments of the Redskins, the NFL or NFL players."LOL @ calling this "slamming" Portis. Yeah he really ripped him a new one

Prepare for more similarly lightweight patty-cake BS and precious little if anything happening to that classy guy Vick, as I figured all along.

Dude, I really think you're underestimating the seriousness of the crime and the power of PETA. If Vick gets convicted, you can kiss his ### goodbye for a long, long time. Count on it.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Investigator still missing solid evidence linking to dog fighting

CHESAPEAKE, Va. (AP) - The prosecutor investigating whether property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was part of a dog fighting operation said Wednesday he still doesn't have solid evidence linking Vick to dog fighting.

"I know everybody is saying, 'When are those fools in Surry County going to get up off their butts and do something?"' Poindexter told The Virginian-Pilot of Norfolk on Wednesday. "But what are we going to do?"

Poindexter said there are no eyewitnesses who say they saw dog fighting at the home where 66 dogs were seized along with equipment that could be associated with dog fighting. The discoveries were made during a drug raid at the home on April 25.

The dogs are being held in kennels in four counties, the newspaper reported, and Poindexter said they will be held until the investigation has been completed.

Seems we have conflicting reports about putting down the animals.It also looks like those who mentioned seeing Mike at fights and knowing of film of Mike attending the alleged illegal activities have decided not to come forward.

It also appears that two old torn up dogs and a third with fresh wounds, a binder of contracts, pry bars, mills, vet supplies, and whatever else they have found so far, just doesn't quite make a case strong enough for them to go after Mike's cousin, let alone Mike.

In a dogfight this would be called the first turn, and Poindexter showed weakness.

eta for link repair

 

[2stix]

Poindexter is a chump who is probably paid off by Vick. Afterseing the video clips of this guy, I expected as much from him. The feds are involved and will look over that backwoods justice in surry county and come up with there own.

 

[Big Score]

Poindexter is a chump who is probably paid off by Vick. Afterseing the video clips of this guy, I expected as much from him. The feds are involved and will look over that backwoods justice in surry county and come up with there own.

Why do you think he's a chump & paid off? The eye witness(es) the Animal Control Officer talked about, isn't / aren't willing to testify.

The tapes that the Animal Control Officer wasn't sure existed, have yet to be found.

The idea is for Poindexter to charge Vick & get a conviction. How the heck do you expect him to do that without the necessary evidence or testimony?

Paitence Young Grasshopper!

Even though you told us a couple of weeks ago that Vick was guilty of perjury, because he'd lied to the Feds, we now know the Feds are finally & truly involved in this case. I'd say their resources far exceed those of local authorities & certainly the Animal Control Officer's.

If the evidence exists & witnesses are out there, the Feds will get it / them. Then Poindexter will have a case!

As to the Falcons looking for another QB, again not a peep about this from any of the Falcons beat writers. Not even the ones who are pretty clued in.

I think this might be one of PFT's "throw enough mud, some is bound to stick" stories.

 

[Traders2001]

Investigator still missing solid evidence linking to dog fighting

CHESAPEAKE, Va. (AP) - The prosecutor investigating whether property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was part of a dog fighting operation said Wednesday he still doesn't have solid evidence linking Vick to dog fighting.

"I know everybody is saying, 'When are those fools in Surry County going to get up off their butts and do something?"' Poindexter told The Virginian-Pilot of Norfolk on Wednesday. "But what are we going to do?"

Poindexter said there are no eyewitnesses who say they saw dog fighting at the home where 66 dogs were seized along with equipment that could be associated with dog fighting. The discoveries were made during a drug raid at the home on April 25.

The dogs are being held in kennels in four counties, the newspaper reported, and Poindexter said they will be held until the investigation has been completed.

Seems we have conflicting reports about putting down the animals.It also looks like those who mentioned seeing Mike at fights and knowing of film of Mike attending the alleged illegal activities have decided not to come forward.

It also appears that two old torn up dogs and a third with fresh wounds, a binder of contracts, pry bars, mills, vet supplies, and whatever else they have found so far, just doesn't quite make a case strong enough for them to go after Mike's cousin, let alone Mike.

In a dogfight this would be called the first turn, and Poindexter showed weakness.

eta for link repair

They wont find anything to link Vick to this , so this is all a waste of time .

 

[ozark]

What I'm wondering about is the "we took the dogs from him to save them, and now kill them" part. We humans are good at rationalizing reasons that that makes sense, but fundmentally it doesn't. Professed concern for the welfare of dogs is quite limited, it seems. They were living in cages; soon they will be killed; people will feel the right thing has been done.

Question ? What the Hell is your point ? "We humans.....", 'Rationalizing reasons', ...(by the way, you do not need -reasons- after using -rationalizing- BACK TO FOOTBALL; anyone know when Unlucky will start his leagues ? Lets see how QB Mr Vick will fare in the picks !

 

[saintfool]

Poindexter is a chump who is probably paid off by Vick. Afterseing the video clips of this guy, I expected as much from him. The feds are involved and will look over that backwoods justice in surry county and come up with there own.

Let me remind you: his name is Pointdexter!

 

[BigRed]

Goodel Slams Portis

"I'm extremely disappointed and embarrassed for Clinton Portis," Goodell said in a written statement following a one-day NFL owners' meeting. "This does not reflect the sentiments of the Redskins, the NFL or NFL players."LOL @ calling this "slamming" Portis. Yeah he really ripped him a new one

Prepare for more similarly lightweight patty-cake BS and precious little if anything happening to that classy guy Vick, as I figured all along.

Dude, I really think you're underestimating the seriousness of the crime and the power of PETA. If Vick gets convicted, you can kiss his ### goodbye for a long, long time. Count on it.

I think you're seriously underestimating his chances of getting convicted, and if so, the sentencing he would get. And lol @ the "power of PETA."

 

[BigRed]

Investigator still missing solid evidence linking to

It also looks like those who mentioned seeing Mike at fights and knowing of film of Mike attending the alleged illegal activities have decided not to come forward.

Big surprise This is a joke, as we should have expected all along.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Wow, so looks like not only do they have no evidence to charge Vick, but they don't even have evidence to charge anyone with dog fighting.

Some of you must feel pretty ridiculous right now for this witchhunt.

Once this all blows over i expect all of you who came out swinging to post in my Vick apoligy thread. I will try to find a way to send him the link so he knows people can admit when they are wrong.

 

[zadok]

Wow, so looks like not only do they have no evidence to charge Vick, but they don't even have evidence to charge anyone with dog fighting.Some of you must feel pretty ridiculous right now for this witchhunt.Once this all blows over i expect all of you who came out swinging to post in my Vick apoligy thread. I will try to find a way to send him the link so he knows people can admit when they are wrong.

Whatever comic value this shtick of yours had, it is gone...

 

[3C's]

Wow, so looks like not only do they have no evidence to charge Vick, but they don't even have evidence to charge anyone with dog fighting.Some of you must feel pretty ridiculous right now for this witchhunt.Once this all blows over i expect all of you who came out swinging to post in my Vick apoligy thread. I will try to find a way to send him the link so he knows people can admit when they are wrong.

Poindexter is either playing games: "I'm convinced from what I saw that dog fighting has occurred down there, but who was involved in it I don't know at this point."or, there's more to the story and they're staying tight lipped until they have everything (from PFT):WAVY REPORTER SAYS THAT MORE NFL PLAYERS COULD BE INVOLVED IN DOG FIGHTINGJust when it seems that, courtesy of Gerald Poindexter's Sgt. Schulz routine, no one will face prosecution in Surry County, Virginia for the dog-fighting operation found at Mike Vick's property there, along comes a nugget that makes us think that, regardless of anything Poindexter says, does, or tries to do, justice eventually will be served.In a radio interview with our old friend Rick Ballou of 1010 XL in Jacksonville, WAVY-TV's Mary Kay Mallonee said that, based on information she's obtained in connection with her work on the Vick story, other NFL players could be involved in dog fighting."That is what investigators are kind of hinting to me right now," she said. "That 'wait 'til you see who else's name pops up in this'. With that they're playing close to the vest, but they're definitely making me feel like Michael Vick's name is not the only one we're going to recognize before this is all over." Later, Ballou said, "When I mention 'other NFL players,' do you know of some other names, even off the record? Have you been told that there are some names, along with [Vick]?" Her response? "Yes, yes I have."Mallonee has been all over this story, as have other true journalists in Virginia and elsewhere. Also, she's the one who was questioning Clinton Portis last week when he let fly his now-infamous remarks condoning dog fighting.Meanwhile, the e-mails are flowing in from readers who are upset with the manner in which Poindexter is handling this matter. And wolks want to know how they can voice their displeasure.Here's a link to the contact information for the constitutional officers of Surry County. Curiously, each officer has an e-mail address, with the exception of Mr. Poindexter.But his office phone number is available. Since he's a public servant and the information is publicly available, we see no problem with letting PFT Planet publicly know that he can be reached at 757-294-3118.It also might be a good idea, if you are so inclined, to give law enforcement some support, too, since by all appearances investigators believe that there's enough evidence to warrant further action. Sheriff Harold Brown can be reached at surrysheriff@ruralam.net.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Wow, so looks like not only do they have no evidence to charge Vick, but they don't even have evidence to charge anyone with dog fighting.Some of you must feel pretty ridiculous right now for this witchhunt.Once this all blows over i expect all of you who came out swinging to post in my Vick apoligy thread. I will try to find a way to send him the link so he knows people can admit when they are wrong.

Whatever comic value this shtick of yours had, it is gone...

From what we the public know at this point there is NO real evidence connecting Vick to dogfighting. In fact all the so called "unnamed" sources ended up being figments of "look at me everyone" reporters imaginations.The man is as innocent as me or you as far as dog fighting is concerned from what we know at this point.All i ask is that people be man enough to admit when they are wrong, and in this incident there are a lot of people who should feel ashamed for forgetting that people are innocent until proven guilty in our judicial system. In Vick's case he was presumed guilty by almost everyone who wanted to throw their 2 cents in.

 

[perry147]

Wow, so looks like not only do they have no evidence to charge Vick, but they don't even have evidence to charge anyone with dog fighting.

Some of you must feel pretty ridiculous right now for this witchhunt.

Once this all blows over i expect all of you who came out swinging to post in my Vick apoligy thread. I will try to find a way to send him the link so he knows people can admit when they are wrong.

Whatever comic value this shtick of yours had, it is gone...

From what we the public know at this point there is NO real evidence connecting Vick to dogfighting. In fact all the so called "unnamed" sources ended up being figments of "look at me everyone" reporters imaginations.The man is as innocent as me or you as far as dog fighting is concerned from what we know at this point.

All i ask is that people be man enough to admit when they are wrong, and in this incident there are a lot of people who should feel ashamed for forgetting that people are innocent until proven guilty in our judicial system. In Vick's case he was presumed guilty by almost everyone who wanted to throw their 2 cents in.

I am not following you.I think that if Michael Vick is shown to be involved in dog fighting - then he is a very bad person and deserves everything he gets including jail time.

I also think that if Michael Vick is shown to be Not involved in dog fighting with over 50 dogs on his property that have already been shown to have been involved in fighting. He needs to take some responsibility for it anyway (because it was done on his property) - but I think he would deserve an apology from many people.

But let me ask you this what are we apologizing for? For showing contempt for a man it was believed to be mistreated dogs?

 

[aardball44]

From what we the public know at this point there is NO real evidence connecting Vick to dogfighting. In fact all the so called "unnamed" sources ended up being figments of "look at me everyone" reporters imaginations.

So...that's what you call a "fact"...?

The man is as innocent as me or you as far as dog fighting is concerned from what we know at this point.

How many fighting dogs have the police discovered on your property lately? The two golden retrievers I own like to hump each other sometimes, but fighting? Not so much.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I am not following you.

I think that if Michael Vick is shown to be involved in dog fighting - then he is a very bad person and deserves everything he gets including jail time.

I also think that if Michael Vick is shown to be Not involved in dog fighting with over 50 dogs on his property that have already been shown to have been involved in fighting. He needs to take some responsibility for it anyway (because it was done on his property) - but I think he would deserve an apology from many people.

But let me ask you this what are we apologizing for? For showing contempt for a man it was believed to be mistreated dogs?

That's the thing, from what we know at this time there is nothing that points to him being involved in dog fighting, so he doesn't deserve the lashing he has gotten lately.There were over 50 dogs on that property because of a dog breeding business, that is legal. When bunches of dogs are around each other they get in fights on their own sometimes, just because a few have some scars (most were said to be in excellent condition) doesn't mean they were involved in organized fighting. I know someone who works at a kennel, he said they have to break up fights all the times, should kennels be charged with dog fighting?

As for what people should apoligize for...read through the threads on this topic. There is nothing wrong with people being disgusted with dog fighting, but there is something wrong with people taking it out of Vick, who as of now is an innocent man.

 

[corpcow]

Even if what those guys said could be viewed as slander, truth is always an absolute defense to slander. In a civil proceeding you would only have to prove it is more likely than not the statements were true. Totally different from the "beyond a reasonable doubt" you would have to prove to get a criminal conviction. In other words, Vick could easily beat the case, and yet still be unable to win a civil suit for slander. The two have zero to do wih each other.

Well I don't really know a whole lot about all the ins & outs of the law. I know if he's charged and the verdict comes back "Not Guilty", that's a lot different than the verdict coming back "Innocent of All Charges".

So IF Vick's charged & IF the verdict comes back "Innocent of All Charges", would that give Vick's attorney a better chance at a civil suit, if they chose to pursue it?

I honestly don't know & am just curious.

Again, the lawyers would then have to prove that all those statements were lies. And we all know that there are a thousand ways to be found innocent when the facts or statements against you are true. It is extremely hard to win a slander case. The example of politicians was used earlier, watch the Tonight Show any night and there would seem to be plenty of slanderous material. Movie stars too. On very few occasions they win libel cases against rags like the Enquirer but it is few and far between. And if you look at percentages of seemingly obvious false stories vs libel suits vs plaintiff wins it would seem to me that winning a suit of that kind would be near impossible. I mean, literally all the witnesses would have to do is say that they must have been mistaken, that one of Vick's cousins looked like him and they thought it was him. Mistaken ID is not slander. But I think that if Vick is exonoerrated, despite his seeming ignorance of the definition, he will want to put it as far past him as possible and distance himself from the whole mess.

It's been awhile since I took torts, but here goes nothing:For a normal person to bring a claim for defamation, he would simply have to show 1) a statement was made 2) by the defendant 3) that was derogatory. Whether something is derogatory is a relatively low bar, and accusations of a crime would most likely satisfy (in some states, such statements are defamation per se). Public figures (which Vick would qualify as) have to show "actual malice" (see NYT v. Sullivan) - that is, qualify under the 3 points above AND show that the statement was either 4) known to be false or 5) made recklessly without regard to the truth.

Mistaken ID can certainly be defamation. If Vick were not a public figure, that's not a defense at all. If I accuse you of killing someone and then say it was "mistaken identity", that doesn't bar a claim for defamation. Vick would have to show actual malice though, in which the "mistaken identity" could at least be considered (i.e., if it were a "mistake", it wasn't "malicious"), but it would apply more to the eye-witnesses than those reporting or discussing it.

Truth is a defense, but it's important to remember that the burden is on the defendant at this point, not the plaintiff. That is, the person Vick is suing would have to prove that the statement was true, as opposed to Vick proving the statement was false. The only thing that would hurt Vick's claim in that sense would be a conviction. In any other case, it's still a fairly hefty burden for the defendant to deal with (particularly if the government doesn't even have enough evidence to get an indictment).

Anyway....

 

[perry147]

I am not following you.

I think that if Michael Vick is shown to be involved in dog fighting - then he is a very bad person and deserves everything he gets including jail time.

I also think that if Michael Vick is shown to be Not involved in dog fighting with over 50 dogs on his property that have already been shown to have been involved in fighting. He needs to take some responsibility for it anyway (because it was done on his property) - but I think he would deserve an apology from many people.

But let me ask you this what are we apologizing for? For showing contempt for a man it was believed to be mistreated dogs?

That's the thing, from what we know at this time there is nothing that points to him being involved in dog fighting, so he doesn't deserve the lashing he has gotten lately.There were over 50 dogs on that property because of a dog breeding business, that is legal. When bunches of dogs are around each other they get in fights on their own sometimes, just because a few have some scars (most were said to be in excellent condition) doesn't mean they were involved in organized fighting. I know someone who works at a kennel, he said they have to break up fights all the times, should kennels be charged with dog fighting?

As for what people should apoligize for...read through the threads on this topic. There is nothing wrong with people being disgusted with dog fighting, but there is something wrong with people taking it out of Vick, who as of now is an innocent man.

People are disgusted by the dog fighting issue and Vick along with it (because they think he was involved).Vick has many faults (the Ron Mexico thing, hidden drug at the airport, flipping off fans, and other problems.) - but I think this issue because it involves animal cruelty and is seen as so heinous and monstrous has a very polarizing effect. Kind of like being accused of child molesting people tend to show extreme contemptment.

 

[Big Score]

CHESAPEAKE, Va. — Dozens of dogs seized in an investigation into possible dogfighting on land owned by Atlanta Falcons star Michael Vick likely would be euthanized if investigators determine they are fighting dogs, the Humane Society said.

Several of the dogs had old scars that could be associated with dogfighting injuries, but authorities have said the dogs largely appeared to be healthy.

thechronicleherald.caInteresting.

I thought the authorities had already determined that these were fighting dogs, now the Humane Society is bringing this into question?

The authorities reporting that the dogs largely appear to be healthy & they're only old scars, is new too, isn't it?

 

[Chaos Commish]

CHESAPEAKE, Va. — Dozens of dogs seized in an investigation into possible dogfighting on land owned by Atlanta Falcons star Michael Vick likely would be euthanized if investigators determine they are fighting dogs, the Humane Society said.

Several of the dogs had old scars that could be associated with dogfighting injuries, but authorities have said the dogs largely appeared to be healthy.

thechronicleherald.caInteresting.

I thought the authorities had already determined that these were fighting dogs, now the Humane Society is bringing this into question?

The authorities reporting that the dogs largely appear to be healthy & they're only old scars, is new too, isn't it?

Not really new. The original report about the dogs discussed one that sounded freshly torn up and walking on a leg that was bending the wrong way; two others with old scars. The rest of the dogs seemed in good condition. None of this is indicative of a dogfighting operation or not. There are conflicting reports about putting the dogs down. I suspect the current information is more factual, and the dogs may survive the investigation. A big issue in these instances is the cost of caring for the animals during the investigation. It could be that someone is offering to cover that cost.

 

[BigRed]

Wow, so looks like not only do they have no evidence to charge Vick, but they don't even have evidence to charge anyone with dog fighting.Some of you must feel pretty ridiculous right now for this witchhunt.Once this all blows over i expect all of you who came out swinging to post in my Vick apoligy thread. I will try to find a way to send him the link so he knows people can admit when they are wrong.

Whatever comic value this shtick of yours had,

Seriously? Where?I hope everyone who felt OJ was guilty wrote him an apology letter after he was found innocent