Keeper League advice (1 Viewer)

[MSULions]

I'm in a league with some friends and we've been doing it for a few years now so we decided to make it a keeper league and agreed on 2 players. But today before the draft an argument broke out over how it's going to work:

One guy is arguing that there should be a minimum one - preferably two - round penalty for each keeper. i.e. if you keep a 4th round pick you lose your 2nd round pick next year. this also makes it impossible to keep your first or second round picks. He and a couple of others are claiming that the point of a keeper league is to reward people for drafting well and finding the gems in the later rounds...yet I can't reconcile that view with penalizing them for doing it. I took Ray Rice in the 10th...does that mean if he turns out great that I should then lose my 8th round pick?

I am arguing that there should be no higher penalty and any player on your team should be keepable. The problem is I pulled the first pick and nabbed LT so now a few are #####ing that i'm just saying this because of that. but this really wasn't discussed until after the draft...I just assumed a 2 keeper league means just that, you keep your two best guys. I would feel the same way if I had the 5th, 10th or 12th pick.

3rd option of course is that there is no losing of draft picks.

So please give me some input on this...we've been a redraft league of friends for five years now...great group and I hate that this is turning sour. what option do you play? Which is most common? Frankly, I just don't understand the point of penalizing people for drafting well. i.e. I took Calvin Johnson in the 3rd, so by his system not only do I have to give up LT and COlston, but I also lose my first round pick if I keep Calvin. That seems awfully harsh to me.

so vote please...and give me some feedback if you can....

 

[Pictus Cat]

Voted other, but intended no penalty. Hey, it's early for me.

Go with the rules before the draft.

There is a slippery slope if don't.

There are all kinds of threads on rules. Get a good set now.

The problem with voting on rules is not everyone is going to agree.

Get the league to understand they may not get their way if you decide to vote on it.

 

[NHT-SPOILER]

You cannot lose picks for keepers, unless you are NOT worried about keeping the league fair. We tried this and it gave an enormously unfair advantage to ppl that got lucky.

See example:

Last year Wes Welker was drafted in the 12th rd, ADP was drafted in the 6th, Moss in the 5th, etc.....

This year these ppl would of lost very picks for players that were NOT equal to their value NOW. Other ppl would have lost 1st or 2nd rd picks for equal value players. It just isn't fair across the board and this will happen every year.

We also tried losing the players ADP for a keeper so that we were picking up their actual value, BUT this does not work either. Example: 2 rbs - one with an adp of 2nd rd and another with an adp of 4th rd, BUT once you look at their average pts per week difference it was only 1/2 - 1 pt per week, yet they were 2-3 rds apart. As you can see, this doesn't work well either.

What we ended up doing was:

**keeping 3 players, and not losing any picks.

**having one expansion rd prior to the draft beginning where we pick for one round only OPPOSITE of how you finished.

**This helps add some parity, but not so much that the last place team gets an unfair advantage as for the most part the top 30 players are already kept.

**Always have a rules meeting atleast one month prior to the draft so you can work all the kinks out of the new rules prior to the draft.

Good Luck.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

in both my keeper leagues we use tiers. ie 1-5, 6-10, 11-14, 15-19.

lose the value of where player was drafted (-4 for every year kept)

i don't see it as penalizing, you are rewarding people for drafting well.

I mean how hard is it to keep your 1/2 rbs every year?

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

2) Keeper Categories - You will be allowed to keep up to 5 players from each of the following categories from your end-of-the-year roster. If you choose not to keep a player from a higher category, you may keep an extra player in a lower category.The following keeper tiers will apply to next year’s keepers:Category A. 1 Player valued in rounds 1-4*Category B. 1 Player valued in rounds 5-8Category C. 1 Player valued in rounds 9-12Category D. 2 Players valued in rounds 13-18 (free agents will worth a 16th round pick**)*In Category A you can’t keep a player actually drafted in the 1st round. You can only keep a player who has a 1st round value that was kept in a previous year. A player with 1st round value cannot be kept for consecutive years.FREE AGENT RB/WR - Any RB/WR not drafted at the beginning of the season who scores in the top 15 for their position will be worth an 8th round pick. Top 30 for their position will be worth a 12th round pick. Other positions are not restricted.3) Keeper Prices - For each player you decide to keep from last year's roster, you will forfeit that respective pick in this year's draft. For example, if you keep your 3rd round draft pick from last year, you will not have a 3rd round draft pick this year.You can only keep players that are on your roster at the end of the year. If you trade or release a player you may not keep that player unless you reacquire them. If someone else acquires a player who was drafted and then released/traded by someone, they have the keeper value of the round they were drafted.Keeping a free agent will cost a 16th round pick if you keep one, a 16th and 17th round choice if you keep two, and 16-17-18 round choices if you keep three. The keeper value of all of these players would still be worth a 16th round pick. The same would apply if you kept two players in the 8th round – you would lose your 8th and 9th round picks, but both of their keeper values would be 8th round.4) Keeper Devaluation - If a player is kept for two consecutive years, the player is worth the original draft position minus 4 rounds. For example, if Donald Driver was drafted in the 13th round, keeping him this year will cost a 13th round draft choice. If he is kept for two consecutive years he will cost a 9th round draft choice, the third year a 5th, etc.If you choose to keep a player drafted in rounds 2-5 for a second consecutive year, it will cost you a 1st round draft choice. If you go this route you WILL NOT be able to keep another player valued in Category A.

 

[AcerFC]

I think that this should have probably been discusses before the draft. But since it was not, I think you have to go with the majority of what your league says even if there are some that do not like it. Dont lose sight of the fact that you guys are friends. Do it one way and then bring it up again next year if you feel like it didnt work out. Rules can always be tweaked.

We have a different system then most.

You are not allowed to keep anyone that was drafted in rounds 1-5. The keeper rounds are in 6-22. You can keep up to two players if you want. If you keep one, the penalty is losing that round pick (MJD in the 17th a few years ago). If you keep two, you lose those picks but also forfeit your third rounder. We had an owner keep Romo (7th round) and Welker (8th round) this season. He lost those two rounds (didnt really lose them, just selected those players in those rounds again this year) and he did not have a 3rd rounder.

I think this really balances things nicely because the top players will be in the draft again the following year and it awards people who draft nicely.

Players are allowed to be kept for 3 seasons following the year you draft them for a total of 4 seasons. In the 3 years we have done this, we have only had 2 owners keep two players and lose the 3rd. It is a high risk, high reward system.

 

[pinequick]

I can believe how dumb people are (your league-mates, in this case) when it comes to fair play.

YOUR RULES ARE SET BY THE TIME YOU DRAFT, period. No changes after that. Even if you hadn't decided what "keeper" meant prior to your draft, the most common meaning = you get to keep how ever many players. That is how you should play this season. If those guys are now saying, "Well, by 'keeper' we should put a penalty..." my response would be, "That's fine, but a lot of us didn't draft with that in mind this season. A keeper means 'keeper'--I get to keep him. You dance with the girl you brung. We can vote on this prior to next year's draft (to be enforced in the next draft)."

Vote on changes PRIOR TO YOUR DRAFT next season. But once you draft, all alterations are out. My 2 cents...

 

[Road Warriors]

I can believe how dumb people are (your league-mates, in this case) when it comes to fair play.YOUR RULES ARE SET BY THE TIME YOU DRAFT, period. No changes after that. Even if you hadn't decided what "keeper" meant prior to your draft, the most common meaning = you get to keep how ever many players. That is how you should play this season. If those guys are now saying, "Well, by 'keeper' we should put a penalty..." my response would be, "That's fine, but a lot of us didn't draft with that in mind this season. A keeper means 'keeper'--I get to keep him. You dance with the girl you brung. We can vote on this prior to next year's draft (to be enforced in the next draft)."Vote on changes PRIOR TO YOUR DRAFT next season. But once you draft, all alterations are out. My 2 cents...

Bypassing the "dumb" comment, If you want to go to a keeper league, decide on the rules as a league, then have your initial draft under those rules. Allowing keepers from a draft that was not held under keeper rules skews the results.As for the rules of a Keeper league, I play in one with the draft slot -2 is where your keeper will slot. While it gives advantages to certain guys for drafting well ( the TJ Housh owner in my league got him 3 years back in the 14th. He'll be on that roster a long time ), it creates opportunities to shift strategy and take risks on guys that may pan out to be great keepers. The other huge advantage in this type of system is that by returning the top 2 rounds of draft picks back into the draft pool year after year, there is always enough top tier talent to build a solid contending team. Keep 2 is not dynasty, and we wanted to keep every team competitive. It's worked well for us, it implements a natural limit to the number of years you can keep a guy, as eventually his cost will exceed his value, keeps teams engaged for the entire season, and promotes trading in the offseason to try to improve your draft position or keepers if you're stacked.

 

[jeremyx13]

I can believe how dumb people are (your league-mates, in this case) when it comes to fair play.YOUR RULES ARE SET BY THE TIME YOU DRAFT, period. No changes after that. Even if you hadn't decided what "keeper" meant prior to your draft, the most common meaning = you get to keep how ever many players. That is how you should play this season. If those guys are now saying, "Well, by 'keeper' we should put a penalty..." my response would be, "That's fine, but a lot of us didn't draft with that in mind this season. A keeper means 'keeper'--I get to keep him. You dance with the girl you brung. We can vote on this prior to next year's draft (to be enforced in the next draft)."Vote on changes PRIOR TO YOUR DRAFT next season. But once you draft, all alterations are out. My 2 cents...

Bypassing the "dumb" comment, If you want to go to a keeper league, decide on the rules as a league, then have your initial draft under those rules. Allowing keepers from a draft that was not held under keeper rules skews the results.As for the rules of a Keeper league, I play in one with the draft slot -2 is where your keeper will slot. While it gives advantages to certain guys for drafting well ( the TJ Housh owner in my league got him 3 years back in the 14th. He'll be on that roster a long time ), it creates opportunities to shift strategy and take risks on guys that may pan out to be great keepers. The other huge advantage in this type of system is that by returning the top 2 rounds of draft picks back into the draft pool year after year, there is always enough top tier talent to build a solid contending team. Keep 2 is not dynasty, and we wanted to keep every team competitive. It's worked well for us, it implements a natural limit to the number of years you can keep a guy, as eventually his cost will exceed his value, keeps teams engaged for the entire season, and promotes trading in the offseason to try to improve your draft position or keepers if you're stacked.

I would like to add some wrinkles that our league uses in addition to losing draft pick 2 rounds higher (no player kept in the first 2 rounds obviously which leaves all the top players available to all). First, you can only keep a player you drafted and they must be on your team at the end of the season (no waiver wire pickups can be kept). Second, no player can be kept more than 3 seasons (precludes someone getting a SOD and keeping him for 8 seasons). Last, an owner may keep anywhere from 0-3 keepers (prevents forcing owner to keep crap on their team). These have worked very well for us so far and still rewards good drafters but doesn't punish the guppies too badly. Hope these give you some ideas you might incorporate into your league next year when you vote on keeper rules prior to the draft.

 

[Saint]

We keep it simple. You keep 2 players. Those are considered your first and second round picks. Then you draft as normal. So in essence, the draft starts in Round 3.

 

[Pictus Cat]

I would like to add,

Running a keeper going into it's 3rd year,

it is a pain.

You might want to agree to run it for 2 to 3 years and start over once everyone has some experience.

Then have the league bring up all the rules they will want and vote.

If I had it to do all over,

It would start with an auction draft.

New rules would have to be voted on during the off season, January is swell.

New rules would have to be fill a 'need' for the league as determined by commissioner.

New rules would not go into effect until the 2nd draft after it is passed.

Lots of variations out there, take a year or two for the league to have fun and learn what's out there before you marry the league to a long term set of rules.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

We keep it simple. You keep 2 players. Those are considered your first and second round picks. Then you draft as normal. So in essence, the draft starts in Round 3.

That's about as simple as it gets.We do a similar league where we Keep 4 - but the draft is straightline (i.e. worst team is first in every round) to try and balance things.I agree overall, though - your 2008 rules are established. Deal with them for this year and start talking about changes - but only for 2009 and beyond.

 

[Bulldog96]

We keep 3 for 3 years drafted after the 3rd Round... Serpentine draft, Keepers start at 3.01 and allow the Team that earned the Number #1 pick "first dibs" on keepers.

In an effort to allow teams a shot at rebuilding :

Keep ONE for FREE

Keep TWO = Freebie + 6th RD pick

Keep THREE = Freebie + 6th + 5th RD Picks

Franchise Players = 3rd RD pick (players whose 3 year contract expired = franchise 'em and extend it by one year, ONE Franchise Player per team)

Only ONE RB/TE max per team (Max of TWO for all other positions)

====================================

It's worked for us...

It basically allows teams with weak players a chance to throw 'em back and gain some pretty good picks... If everyone but ONE team sits out the 6th + 5th, Team X gets his 4th RDer and immediately drafts 2 more players before heading into the 7th RD...

Not to mention, MOST owners are satisfied with keeping the Peterson's and Moss' of the FF world for a 6th RD pick...

 

[MSULions]

I appreciate the feedback. As for us being "dumb" for not deciding the rules before hand, i and everyone else thought we had, but there was confusion. I thought I had agreed to allow losing the pick in the round of who you keep. i.e. keep LT and lose your first next year. a couple of others thought the 2 round penalty was the deal. so it's just confusion and I was curious to see other rules and get some feedback on how normal the losing a higher draft pick than the player you keep is.

I greatly appreciate any more thoughts....