Wally Cleaver
Footballguy
I think so, he looks very good today.
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Kenny Watson (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Wally Cleaver
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Wally Cleaver
Footballguy
This is probably true, although Rudi has not looked very good this year, I have Rudi & Watson in my main league, and I have watched every Bengal game this season... I think Watson adds a dimension to the Bengal offense that Rudi does not.
Rushmore
Footballguy
Rudi is a good back and all, but I've always wanted a quicker and shiftier back in this offense. This offense is tailored for a Chris Perry style back, which Watson is similar to, despite maybe lacking in some of the measurable skills. Kenny Watson ironically reminds me of Ladell Betts. I think Rudi has benefited greatly from the system in Cincy. He's a good back and all, but his numbers have been inflated by the system.
Given Rudi's play so far this year,I've wondered if he could be out the starting job next year. I don't know if any of the Bengals current backs can displace him, but after the game today, I added Watson.
I know, I know. "What kind of league are you in with Watson available?"
I know, I know. "What kind of league are you in with Watson available?"
Anonymous Internet User
Footballguy
I had to drop Watson for bye-week fill-ins this week. I figured with a bye coming up and the possibility Rudi would even play a bit this week that he wouldn't be much of a factor come week 9. Boy was I wrong. I hope I can get him back from waivers!
madd futher
Footballguy
I dropped Watson for Chatman as soon as I decided it MIGHT be the ACL. If I had known that Watson had 'gone off' that hugely, I don't know if I would have done it.
We won't know for a few more days which one has the better chance of becoming 'the man' for their team.
We won't know for a few more days which one has the better chance of becoming 'the man' for their team.
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He's been a stellar back the past several years, but if you look at last season (3.8 ypc) and this season (3.0 ypc), it's hard to not at least speculate he's lost a step.
I never said Rudi IS done, just that I wondered.
In respect to Watson, he's played excellently, but I'd like to see him consistently tote it 20 times before annointing him. That doesn't mean he isn't worth stashing.
I never said Rudi IS done, just that I wondered.
In respect to Watson, he's played excellently, but I'd like to see him consistently tote it 20 times before annointing him. That doesn't mean he isn't worth stashing.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
This is the correct answer. Rudi's not going to lose his job, especially since Watson has had one game like this out of the four he's gotten significant time in.It's nice for Cincy to have a backup to step up while Rudi's gone, but he's not starting anytime soon.The Ref said:
mdog1967
Footballguy
I fear RUDI has reached the near end of that last bit of rope. Watson did very well yesterday and may do so for the rest of the year. I would not expect LT type production going forward, but a few nice games ahead when the match up is right. Waiting for Rudi to come back and continue a campaign of three yards and a cloud of dust my not be in the cards, who knows.
JHicks22
Footballguy
They're paying Rudi to be the feature back. I doubt they sit him when he's healthy. I'm a Watson owner and would love it if they did, but I just don't see it happening.
Kirby
Footballguy
His worst performance was a 4.2 avg. He's been doing fine.. the Bengals just weren't handing the rock off enough. Anyone can run behind those monsters... except Rudi... he thinks he's Barry Sanders for some reason.
-Crippler-
Footballguy
Are you joking? no chance he will keep the job. Rudi would have done just as well in the game.
This coming from a guy with Watson in 4 leagues and Rudi in 0.
This coming from a guy with Watson in 4 leagues and Rudi in 0.
Weekend Warrior
Footballguy
There is no way that Watson keeps the job when Rudi is full strength. They played the Jets and Watson is a great 3rd down RB, a RB you can spot start in a pinch, etc. That is his specialty.
crnerblitz
Footballguy
Rudi's injury prone! Lewis is an idiot if he doesn't hand the job to Watson!
packersfan
Footballguy
That's my take. I'm not sure I buy the "Rudi was having a bad season" line. He had one stinker of a game - against Seattle. In the other two, he faced a strong run defense (Baltimore) and in the other he faced a bad defense (Cleveland) and had a big game. He hasn't played enough this season for people to say he wasn't playing well in my opinion. The Bengals needed to get more balance to their offense and yesterday's opponent provided the right team to do it against. The Jets' defense stinks and Watson took full advantage. It's very safe to say Rudi would have had a big game against the Jets as well. I think what Watson has done is give the team some time to make sure Rudi is 100% before bringing him back. Lewis clearly f'd up bringing Rudi back last week when he wasn't at full strength and that led to a setback. Watson has now bought the team some time to make sure Rudi can get back to full strength before bringing him back. The irony here for Rudi is this is exactly how he first got his big shot with the Bengals in 2003. Dillon had a nagging injury that season and Rudi got his chance and was huge. When Dillon came back, he remained the starter but Rudi got some carries as well. Now Rudi's the one with the nagging injury and Watson is taking advantage. Perhaps we see a rotation similar to what Lewis did with his RBs in 2003. For those who don't recall, here is how the carries were broken down after Rudi emerged:Week 11: Dillon 6-21/Rudi 22-165Week 12: Dillon 18-108/Rudi 17-55Week 13: Dillon 10-48/Rudi 10-29Week 14: Dillon 11-45/Rudi 4-10Week 15: Dillon 9-24/Rudi 21-174-2Week 16: Dillon 7-37/Rudi 11-30Week 17: Dillon 8-50/Rudi 14-52-2In 2003, Rudi clearly became the lead RB even though Dillon was the nominal starter. He was much healthier, much more productive and his power got him into the end zone. I'm not sure the current situation will see this type of breakdown because Watson - though he did score 3 times yesterday - isn't as powerful between the tackles in my opinion as Rudi. So I would imagine Rudi getting the goal-line looks if he's able to play.The key really boils down to health. In 2003, Dillon was never able to get healthy again and therefore Rudi became the more productive RB and Lewis didn't hesitate to give him a healthy number of carries in the second half of the season. If Rudi can't get healthy this season, we could see a repeat of that scenario. But I do think Rudi remains the starter just as Dillon remained the starter in 2003. The question is whether he'll get back to a level of health which will see him get more carries this season than Dillon got in 2003.
jurrassic
Footballguy
Watson has averaged 6.7, 4.2, 5.2, and 4.3 in the 4 games he has gotten significant playing time. He also brings as a pass catching dynamic Johnson does not. Now admittedly, I am hoping Watson takes the job but it is hard to argue that at the very least this could become a 60/40 share.
Keep us posted!
MNFlyingBoat
Footballguy
Its all likely a matter of match ups. That is why I picked up Watson and started him along with Graham and sat Brown, Henry, and Lynch this week. Five of the next 6 weeks are brutal against the run for Cinci. The playoff weeks though, look nice. If I had the roster spot I would keep Watson for the playoffs, but not likely play him until then, if at all. I don't see playing him, even if Rudi is out, for the next six weeks, accept possibly against Buffalo.
Andy Herron
Footballguy
Evan Silva of rotoworld wrote this last week. Not that he's a football god or anything, but this sounds about right to me. I think I'm a believer.
His hamstring injury aside, Rudi Johnson simply doesn't work in the offense anymore. (OC)Bratkowski's scheme now requires a running back with pass-catching ability and the capacity to explode on the rare occasion he gets to carry the football. Johnson is a mediocre receiver at best and hardly possesses the quickness to create for himself. Kenny Watson may be far from a long-term answer, but he fits the criteria above. With no improvement imminent from head coach Marvin Lewis' side of the ball, there is a good chance Watson will continue to be the Bengals' lead back for the rest of the season.
His hamstring injury aside, Rudi Johnson simply doesn't work in the offense anymore. (OC)Bratkowski's scheme now requires a running back with pass-catching ability and the capacity to explode on the rare occasion he gets to carry the football. Johnson is a mediocre receiver at best and hardly possesses the quickness to create for himself. Kenny Watson may be far from a long-term answer, but he fits the criteria above. With no improvement imminent from head coach Marvin Lewis' side of the ball, there is a good chance Watson will continue to be the Bengals' lead back for the rest of the season.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
On pins and needles over here....
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Wally Cleaver
Footballguy
Sounds exactly like what everyone was saying when Rudi replaced Dillon for good.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Because it doesn't work like that. See: Portis, Clinton; Jordan, LaMont.Even when the backup shines, when the starter comes back--especially one as good as Rudi, they get their job back. It's getting frustrating to see RBBC get tossed around in here with no real basis, all the time. It's the reason Betts was overrated at the beginning of the year, the reason Portis was underrated, and why LaMont is STILL underrated.People love to throw around those four letters, and it skews their vision of reality.turleyfan said:
packersfan
Footballguy
The big X factor here is Rudi's injury. Can he get back to 100% at any point in the rest of this season? If he can, it's likely he resumes his workhorse role with Watson getting a little more involved in the running game to keep him fresh. But if he can't, we could see a repeat of 2003 which I listed above when Dillon was hobbling but still the "starter" but Rudi was the more productive and more utilized RB.
Foosball God
Foos
Except that Dillon was a malcontent and so Cincy wasn't unhappy to let Dillon go. Rudi is a good soldier and him losing his job would cause larger waves in the lockerroom.
turleyfan
Footballguy
I guess I don't see how these situations parallel what is going on in Cincy. Note: I am not assuming more than we know... if Rudi is truly hurt in a way that he can't regain form this year, then we've got a different situation altogether. And those of you who landed Watson may have a winning lottery ticket. But history suggests Cincy has at least one capable workhorse back (Rudi) and possibly two, if early indications prove accurate over time. Are you suggesting that there aren't committees out there? People "throw around these letters" to describe RB situations around the league, and there are a lot more of these than before. I am not saying we have to like it, I am just saying it looks to me like both of these guys are going to get touches, assuming both are (and stay) healthy.
packersfan
Footballguy
Not really. There are only five true RBBC teams this season: MinnesotaGreen BayDallasJacksonvilleTennesseeYou could probably add New England to that list but that's more a product of injury than anything else. Whenever a backup has a good game we hear how the team is going to go to a RBBC situation immediately when the reality is that doesn't happen all that often. As I posted before, Lewis has gone to a RBBC in Cincinnati if his starter was injured and unable to get to full health. But whenever Rudi has been healthy he's clearly been the guy in the backfield so if he can return to full health (and that's the huge x factor here as I said before) there's probably a greater chance of him regaining his workhorse role than there is of this becoming a RBBC situation.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
No, there's not. I wish people would stop saying this.I wish I had the study that one of the staff members done that gets posted on here every 6 months, too. RBBC is decreasing over time, not increasing.
turleyfan
Footballguy
No disagreement on the bolded part... but the fact that we've not really seen any signs of this happening could cause honest doubts about how hurt he really is. As to your list of running back committees... seems a pretty narrow definition. Are you saying any team that has a clear #1 (say, like Atlanta, since Dunn has about twice the carries as Norwood, to this point) isn't a committee? As to whether or not we're talking injury or not... for our purposes, does it really matter? If the carries are split between multiple players, for whatever reason, then there isn't a workhorse. In which case, I'd say it's a committee.
I'm not stubborn. I'm willing to reconsider this. Hard numbers don't lie, so if you have a link, I will take a look.To be honest, I will look at your both of your answers , if they come, but really, I feel like we (well, I) am spending too much time thinking about an ancillary and fairly unimportant question. My take (based only on my cursory observations of the Bengals, I'm not a fan, and my only interest in this team is Chad Johnson) is that, by the end of the year, the carries between these two backs are going to be pretty evenly split. That is, what has been will continue until something changes. This isn't rocket science... Watson has 76 touches, Rudi 70. As soon as Rudi is 100% (has he been at any time this year?), I am sure Watson will lose touches. If Rudi is less than 100% (all signs point to yes, at this point), they share touches.
Or Rudi gets shut down altogether.
Long-term, I wouldn't put money on it either. I wouldn't put money on it for this year. But, given how good Watson has been, and how poor Rudi has played thus far, I'd expect Watson to stay in the mix, and if Rudi continues to play subpar, Watson to take the majority of the touches.As for next year, unless Rudi comes back with some serious fire, he's out as the starter IMHO. Watson would have to have one hell of a season to be considered the starter going into next year.Chris Perry has the talent, but not the bone density.I'd say they'll bring someone in via the draft or Free agency, most likely free agency. Julius Jones and Barber are available if I'm not mistaken, Michael Turner too
packersfan
Footballguy
Well then we have a different definition of the word committee. I believe it's a situation where there is a starter but he is not clearly getting the primary carries. That is the case with the examples I noted above, but not in Atlanta where Dunn is the clear primary ballcarrier. Nearly every team is using two RBs now because it's smart not to overwork your starter and risk the threat of injury. But that doesn't mean it's a committee situation. Back to Rudi, I agree we have no idea at the present time how serious the injury is. Right now, it looks very serious because the bye week did not help him and he quickly re-aggravated the injury in his first game back. So I do think there's a chance we could see a repeat of 2003 if he's unable to return to full health or close to it this season. But I think if we do it will be a byproduct of Rudi's injury, not because Watson has done well. I don't think Rudi has done anything to lose his job or see a significant reduction in carries. His biggest problem this season is he hasn't been healthy since Week 3.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Against Pitt? The team that has allowed 100 yards to a RB once in the last 50 something games. The last guy to do it was Edge with the Colts. A team that this year is 3rd against the run only allowing 75 yards per game and a single TD all season? You expect Watson to have a good game against the Steelers? The RB's they have faced this season: A healthy Jamal Lewis week 1, Lynch week 2, Gore week 3, Edge week 4, Alexander week 5, bye week 6 and Henry week 7. Those aren't Tatum Bell, Brandon Jackson, Ced Benson, or Lendale White. Most of those former probowl backs.
