Kevin Jones goes on PUP (1 Viewer)

[Block]

Anyone who expected this NOT to happen should find a different hobby. This includes you, Borbely.

 

[Real Man of Genius]

When Jones gets back he'll be close to 100%

Well, that's the rub, isn't it? When will he be "back", and how close to 100% will he be?

 

[bcr8f]

Tatum Bell owners

Tatum Bell owners week 7.

 

[shakeybarn]

This is only good news for KJ owners if you own TB, too. I fail to see how missing half of the fantasy season is good news to anyone that owns him.

Good for dynasty owners who don't need KJ to be their starter. I fail to see how anyone wouldn't see that as a good thingy.

I grabbed KJ as a second dynasty play for $1 in an auction league (got Mike' Turner for $2).

 

[whodeywhodey]

Trying to trade Droughns for KJ as we speak...

 

[jkirk56]

At what point do we admit that Tatum Bell sucks?The guy just isn't very good.

+--------------------------+-------------------------+				 |		  Rushing		 |		Receiving		|+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 2004 den |  14 |	75	396	5.3	3 |	 5	 80  16.0	0 || 2005 den |  15 |   173	921	5.3	8 |	18	104   5.8	0 || 2006 den |  13 |   233   1025	4.4	2 |	24	115   4.8	0 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+|  TOTAL   |  42 |   481   2342	4.9   13 |	47	299   6.4	0 |

I think people may be extrapolating his lofty Denver YPC...a mistake that has been made over and over again.

So what you're saying is that T.Bell is going to struggle in Detroit just as much as Kevin Jones has (having never finished in the Top 20 of RB's). No argument here.

YR TM G RSH YD Y/R TD TRG REC YD Y/R TD FPT RANK VBD   2004 DET 15 241 1133 4.7 5 41 28 180 6.4 1 167 21 10  2005 DET 13 186 664 3.6 5 28 20 109 5.5 0 107 31 0  2006 DET 12 181 689 3.8 6 78 61 520 8.5 2 169 23 8

Thank you!Why is it that the people on this board are talking about Kevin Jones as if he is the second coming of Walter Payton??And to everyone who keeps saying that Bell is injury prone........WHEN HAS JONES EVER MADE IT THROUGH A SEASON HEALTHY?

 

[Block]

Gotta say, the rationalizations made by Kevin Jones owners rivals those made by owners of any other player. This is good news?

 

[kensat30]

Kevin Jones 2007 = Ladell Betts 2006?

Knowing what we know now, would Betts be a good pickup in the 7th or 8th round in 2006, if the plan was to keep him on your bench until week 8?

Edit: I use Betts as an example of "midseason difference maker"

 

[Block]

Kevin Jones 2007 = Ladell Betts 2006?Knowing what we know now, would Betts be a good pickup in the 7th or 8th round in 2006, if the plan was to keep him on your bench until week 8?Edit: I use Betts as an example of "midseason difference maker"

Only if the other backs play badly enough so that Jones can recapture the starting job when he returns. The NFL is all about opportunity. If Tatum Bell has a few good games during Jones' PuP, Kevin Jones' fantasy value will be minimal, this year and in the future.

 

[Block]

I don't think there is any chance his injury is worse than they say, or they would have put him on PUP before today. The coaches and beat writers who see him every day say he is close. The doctor says he is almost 100% healed. What more needs to be said?

You also didn't think there was any way he would be on PuP to start the season. This should be a wakeup call dude, your judgment regarding Kevin Jones is seriously flawed.

 

[1huskerfan]

Kevin Jones 2007 = Ladell Betts 2006?

Knowing what we know now, would Betts be a good pickup in the 7th or 8th round in 2006, if the plan was to keep him on your bench until week 8?

Edit: I use Betts as an example of "midseason difference maker"

Only if the other backs play badly enough so that Jones can recapture the starting job when he returns. The NFL is all about opportunity. If Tatum Bell has a few good games during Jones' PuP, Kevin Jones' fantasy value will be minimal, this year and in the future.

Good luck with that.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

At best, he'll be 15 carries a game for five weeks...not worth a pick in the first half of drafts. When Jones gets back he'll be close to 100% and he will make Bell an afterthought...Martz and company have stated over and over Jones is the starter when he gets back.

i was implying touches, not just carries, but i agree Bell won't ever be a big carry guy. There is no doubt Kevin Jones is FAR superior to Bell when healthy, but i think it's being a big optimistic to assume K.Jones will definitely be 100% in 5-6 weeks, in reality no one knows for sure. Lisfranc injuries are the kiss of death for many of the players who have had them.I would much rather have a player blow an ACL then have a lisfranc injury as there is a lot of history with ACL surgery and recoveries, not so much with lisfranc.

It drives me crazy that people just will not accept that the team and and the doctor who performed the surgery have all publicly stated that K.J is close to 100% but they see no need to set him back by starting him now....what part of that don`t people understand???? Why bother saying how far along he is at all....unless it was positive news. I see it as he is so close to being able to play that if they started him now it would be ''risky'' , why not let the other rb`s play and tatum can learn the mike martz offence even more(which is quite complicated) and in 5 weeks K.J will be MORE than ready to go without any concerns with setbacks. If K.J was as bad as some people are speculating why would`nt the team just I.R him for the year and bring in someone else?

 

[kensat30]

Kevin Jones 2007 = Ladell Betts 2006?Knowing what we know now, would Betts be a good pickup in the 7th or 8th round in 2006, if the plan was to keep him on your bench until week 8?Edit: I use Betts as an example of "midseason difference maker"

Only if the other backs play badly enough so that Jones can recapture the starting job when he returns. The NFL is all about opportunity. If Tatum Bell has a few good games during Jones' PuP, Kevin Jones' fantasy value will be minimal, this year and in the future.

That's the thing though. I don't think anyone can dispute that Detroit is one of the worst teams in the league at rushing the football. The real money for Detroit starting RB in Martz' O are the receptions. Isn't receiving the single weakest aspect of Bell's game? I've heard he has improved, but I really don't believe it.Tatum Bell preseason receiving totals: ZERO/ZERO/ZEROAnd don't tell me he hasn't been playing enough, I see 15 carries.

 

[Block]

This is among the most hotly debated players this year. My opinion, based on the things I hear and read around here are that KJ is way ahead of his recovery time. He has been cutting and running full speed, but not had contact yet. He can't practice because of being on PUP. Martz said, based on seeing him run and cut, that he thought there was a good chance he was going to play in week 1. The coaches reportedly have lobbied for KJ to be activated, even if he was to miss 2-3 games. The doctors said his foot is very close to 100% healed. The placing him on PUP is the correct call and I don't see any negative to it because he is not in football shape anyways. He would miss 2-3 games no matter what. So they are just being cautious. I don't think there is any reason to think he will not be fully recovered based on everything that has been said and that has happened. I have not heard one negative thing about his rehab or his prognosis. I believe he will be at or near 100% by the time he can be taken off the PUP list. As for Bell, he is not a very tough inside runner, and really hasn't done much in the games. He is better in space. i think Martz really wanted KJ back sooner because he is a tough inside runner and that is lacking with Bell, not to mention being a better all around RB. it's hard to know for sure, but I can see the Lions passing all game long and just having a few runs unless Bell can run inside better. I think the fact that the coaches want him back right now tells me that they don't trust Bell to run the ball consistently, especially inside. If Kj is healthy, I personally don't have any doubts that he will start. That's just my two cents.

I'm quoting this, and I will quote your comments in previous Kevin Jones posts. You need to analyze them.

 

[Block]

Kevin Jones 2007 = Ladell Betts 2006?Knowing what we know now, would Betts be a good pickup in the 7th or 8th round in 2006, if the plan was to keep him on your bench until week 8?Edit: I use Betts as an example of "midseason difference maker"

Only if the other backs play badly enough so that Jones can recapture the starting job when he returns. The NFL is all about opportunity. If Tatum Bell has a few good games during Jones' PuP, Kevin Jones' fantasy value will be minimal, this year and in the future.

That's the thing though. I don't think anyone can dispute that Detroit is one of the worst teams in the league at rushing the football. The real money for Detroit starting RB in Martz' O are the receptions. Isn't receiving the single weakest aspect of Bell's game? I've heard he has improved, but I really don't believe it.Tatum Bell preseason receiving totals: ZERO/ZERO/ZEROAnd don't tell me he hasn't been playing enough, I see 15 carries.

Preseason game plans aren't really similar to regular season gameplans, unless the coach is Steve Spurrier.

 

[AB in DC]

It drives me crazy that people just will not accept that the team and and the doctor who performed the surgery have all publicly stated that K.J is close to 100% but they see no need to set him back by starting him now....what part of that don`t people understand???? Why bother saying how far along he is at all....unless it was positive news.

Ever heard of PR?

 

[1huskerfan]

Kevin Jones 2007 = Ladell Betts 2006?Knowing what we know now, would Betts be a good pickup in the 7th or 8th round in 2006, if the plan was to keep him on your bench until week 8?Edit: I use Betts as an example of "midseason difference maker"

Only if the other backs play badly enough so that Jones can recapture the starting job when he returns. The NFL is all about opportunity. If Tatum Bell has a few good games during Jones' PuP, Kevin Jones' fantasy value will be minimal, this year and in the future.

That's the thing though. I don't think anyone can dispute that Detroit is one of the worst teams in the league at rushing the football. The real money for Detroit starting RB in Martz' O are the receptions. Isn't receiving the single weakest aspect of Bell's game? I've heard he has improved, but I really don't believe it.Tatum Bell preseason receiving totals: ZERO/ZERO/ZEROAnd don't tell me he hasn't been playing enough, I see 15 carries.

Preseason game plans aren't really similar to regular season gameplans, unless the coach is Steve Spurrier.

How does this have anything to do with gameplans?

 

[kensat30]

Kevin Jones 2007 = Ladell Betts 2006?Knowing what we know now, would Betts be a good pickup in the 7th or 8th round in 2006, if the plan was to keep him on your bench until week 8?Edit: I use Betts as an example of "midseason difference maker"

Only if the other backs play badly enough so that Jones can recapture the starting job when he returns. The NFL is all about opportunity. If Tatum Bell has a few good games during Jones' PuP, Kevin Jones' fantasy value will be minimal, this year and in the future.

That's the thing though. I don't think anyone can dispute that Detroit is one of the worst teams in the league at rushing the football. The real money for Detroit starting RB in Martz' O are the receptions. Isn't receiving the single weakest aspect of Bell's game? I've heard he has improved, but I really don't believe it.Tatum Bell preseason receiving totals: ZERO/ZERO/ZEROAnd don't tell me he hasn't been playing enough, I see 15 carries.

Preseason game plans aren't really similar to regular season gameplans, unless the coach is Steve Spurrier.

Tell that to the Lamont Jordan owners who expected him to catch 60-70 passes last year. If the scheme calls for it, and it's not happening, then I smell something fishy. Maybe the scheme has changed to get WR3/WR4 more involved? Or maybe they are concerned about Tatum's ability. In the past, Tatum Bell has had stone hands. What evidence is there to make me think otherwise? He hasn't caught a damn thing in the preseason. Either way, he hasn't displayed a very key attribute yet, that a RB in Martz's O requires to be successful IMO.And BTW, Kevin Jones had 4 catches and a TD last preseason on 22 carries.

 

[Block]

This is among the most hotly debated players this year. My opinion, based on the things I hear and read around here are that KJ is way ahead of his recovery time. He has been cutting and running full speed, but not had contact yet. He can't practice because of being on PUP. Martz said, based on seeing him run and cut, that he thought there was a good chance he was going to play in week 1. The coaches reportedly have lobbied for KJ to be activated, even if he was to miss 2-3 games. The doctors said his foot is very close to 100% healed. The placing him on PUP is the correct call and I don't see any negative to it because he is not in football shape anyways. He would miss 2-3 games no matter what. So they are just being cautious. I don't think there is any reason to think he will not be fully recovered based on everything that has been said and that has happened. I have not heard one negative thing about his rehab or his prognosis. I believe he will be at or near 100% by the time he can be taken off the PUP list. As for Bell, he is not a very tough inside runner, and really hasn't done much in the games. He is better in space. i think Martz really wanted KJ back sooner because he is a tough inside runner and that is lacking with Bell, not to mention being a better all around RB. it's hard to know for sure, but I can see the Lions passing all game long and just having a few runs unless Bell can run inside better. I think the fact that the coaches want him back right now tells me that they don't trust Bell to run the ball consistently, especially inside. If Kj is healthy, I personally don't have any doubts that he will start. That's just my two cents.

I'm quoting this, and I will quote your comments in previous Kevin Jones posts. You need to analyze them.

It may not have been you, actually. My apologies. But there were definitely people who thought this was unlikely to happen as late as a month ago, and I remember wondering at that time how dumb you had to be to believe that. I think it is similarly dumb to look at this as a positive for Kevin Jones' value. The Clinton Portis analogy is a good one.Especially with running backs, it is as much about opportunity as it is about talent. Rudi Johnson, Brian Westbrook, Tiki Barber, Thomas Jones, Travis Henry, Willie Parker, Larry Johnson. All guys who took advantage of a runner ahead of them getting injured or being ineffective.

 

[Block]

Kevin Jones 2007 = Ladell Betts 2006?Knowing what we know now, would Betts be a good pickup in the 7th or 8th round in 2006, if the plan was to keep him on your bench until week 8?Edit: I use Betts as an example of "midseason difference maker"

Only if the other backs play badly enough so that Jones can recapture the starting job when he returns. The NFL is all about opportunity. If Tatum Bell has a few good games during Jones' PuP, Kevin Jones' fantasy value will be minimal, this year and in the future.

That's the thing though. I don't think anyone can dispute that Detroit is one of the worst teams in the league at rushing the football. The real money for Detroit starting RB in Martz' O are the receptions. Isn't receiving the single weakest aspect of Bell's game? I've heard he has improved, but I really don't believe it.Tatum Bell preseason receiving totals: ZERO/ZERO/ZEROAnd don't tell me he hasn't been playing enough, I see 15 carries.

Preseason game plans aren't really similar to regular season gameplans, unless the coach is Steve Spurrier.

Tell that to the Lamont Jordan owners who expected him to catch 60-70 passes last year. If the scheme calls for it, and it's not happening, then I smell something fishy. Maybe the scheme has changed to get WR3/WR4 more involved? Or maybe they are concerned about Tatum's ability. In the past, Tatum Bell has had stone hands. What evidence is there to make me think otherwise? He hasn't caught a damn thing in the preseason. Either way, he hasn't displayed a very key attribute yet, that a RB in Martz's O requires to be successful IMO.And BTW, Kevin Jones had 4 catches and a TD last preseason on 22 carries.

Valid point, but I think if Bell shows that he is a better runner than Jones is that he will keep Jones on the bench, catching ability or not. There are other runners not named Bell who could also take advantage of this situation.

 

[cobalt_27]

For Bell owners, this is great news, and I think he should have some productive games. Martz has his QBs target RBs A LOT anywhere he goes. So, especially in PPR leagues, Bell's going to be handling the rock quite a bit. He won't have any of those 20-25 rush games--probably more in the range of 12-15 on average. But, if he can get 6 targets/4 receptions per game over this stretch, I don't see why 450 total yards and 3 TDs would be out of the question.

For KJ owners, this is nothing but good news. It may turn out that he's not ready and still has to work his way in by Week 7, but if that's the case, it's not like the situation would be any different if he were to suit up and play in Week 1. If anything, this resolves the split time issue between him and Bell through the first few weeks (we'll see where we're at Week 7), it gives him more time to heal (not at all insignificant), and if anything that helps reduce his risk of reinjuring the foot or something else as a result of compensating for the injury.

This is a good day for both players.

 

[1huskerfan]

This is among the most hotly debated players this year. My opinion, based on the things I hear and read around here are that KJ is way ahead of his recovery time. He has been cutting and running full speed, but not had contact yet. He can't practice because of being on PUP. Martz said, based on seeing him run and cut, that he thought there was a good chance he was going to play in week 1. The coaches reportedly have lobbied for KJ to be activated, even if he was to miss 2-3 games. The doctors said his foot is very close to 100% healed. The placing him on PUP is the correct call and I don't see any negative to it because he is not in football shape anyways. He would miss 2-3 games no matter what. So they are just being cautious. I don't think there is any reason to think he will not be fully recovered based on everything that has been said and that has happened. I have not heard one negative thing about his rehab or his prognosis. I believe he will be at or near 100% by the time he can be taken off the PUP list. As for Bell, he is not a very tough inside runner, and really hasn't done much in the games. He is better in space. i think Martz really wanted KJ back sooner because he is a tough inside runner and that is lacking with Bell, not to mention being a better all around RB. it's hard to know for sure, but I can see the Lions passing all game long and just having a few runs unless Bell can run inside better. I think the fact that the coaches want him back right now tells me that they don't trust Bell to run the ball consistently, especially inside. If Kj is healthy, I personally don't have any doubts that he will start. That's just my two cents.

I'm quoting this, and I will quote your comments in previous Kevin Jones posts. You need to analyze them.

It may not have been you, actually. My apologies. But there were definitely people who thought this was unlikely to happen as late as a month ago, and I remember wondering at that time how dumb you had to be to believe that. I think it is similarly dumb to look at this as a positive for Kevin Jones' value. The Clinton Portis analogy is a good one.Especially with running backs, it is as much about opportunity as it is about talent. Rudi Johnson, Brian Westbrook, Tiki Barber, Thomas Jones, Travis Henry, Willie Parker, Larry Johnson. All guys who took advantage of a runner ahead of them getting injured or being ineffective.

That list is only meaningful if you put it next to a list of guys who COULDN"T displace an injured or ineffective starter.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

It drives me crazy that people just will not accept that the team and and the doctor who performed the surgery have all publicly stated that K.J is close to 100% but they see no need to set him back by starting him now....what part of that don`t people understand???? Why bother saying how far along he is at all....unless it was positive news.

Ever heard of PR?

Was this a PR stunt also????Kevin Jones: Continues to Progress

RotoWire.com Staff - RotoWire.com

Wednesday, August 22, 2007

Update: Jones (foot) did cutting drills through tackling dummies in practice Tuesday, something he was unable to do a few weeks ago, the Detroit News reports.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

My own opinion still is about 90-10 that he starts on PUP, and I believe he plays and starts when he comes off. But the fact is nobody knows right now.

The Lions are expected to decide within the next 2 weeks or so.

I don't think there is any chance his injury is worse than they say, or they would have put him on PUP before today. The coaches and beat writers who see him every day say he is close. The doctor says he is almost 100% healed. What more needs to be said?

You also didn't think there was any way he would be on PuP to start the season. This should be a wakeup call dude, your judgment regarding Kevin Jones is seriously flawed.

On August 8th, as shown above, I said there was a 90% chance that KJ started the year on PUP. You should make sure of 2 things before quoting someone: first, make sure the quote is accurate, and second, make sure it is relatively recent.

 

[Block]

This is among the most hotly debated players this year. My opinion, based on the things I hear and read around here are that KJ is way ahead of his recovery time. He has been cutting and running full speed, but not had contact yet. He can't practice because of being on PUP. Martz said, based on seeing him run and cut, that he thought there was a good chance he was going to play in week 1. The coaches reportedly have lobbied for KJ to be activated, even if he was to miss 2-3 games. The doctors said his foot is very close to 100% healed. The placing him on PUP is the correct call and I don't see any negative to it because he is not in football shape anyways. He would miss 2-3 games no matter what. So they are just being cautious. I don't think there is any reason to think he will not be fully recovered based on everything that has been said and that has happened. I have not heard one negative thing about his rehab or his prognosis. I believe he will be at or near 100% by the time he can be taken off the PUP list. As for Bell, he is not a very tough inside runner, and really hasn't done much in the games. He is better in space. i think Martz really wanted KJ back sooner because he is a tough inside runner and that is lacking with Bell, not to mention being a better all around RB. it's hard to know for sure, but I can see the Lions passing all game long and just having a few runs unless Bell can run inside better. I think the fact that the coaches want him back right now tells me that they don't trust Bell to run the ball consistently, especially inside. If Kj is healthy, I personally don't have any doubts that he will start. That's just my two cents.

I'm quoting this, and I will quote your comments in previous Kevin Jones posts. You need to analyze them.

It may not have been you, actually. My apologies. But there were definitely people who thought this was unlikely to happen as late as a month ago, and I remember wondering at that time how dumb you had to be to believe that. I think it is similarly dumb to look at this as a positive for Kevin Jones' value. The Clinton Portis analogy is a good one.Especially with running backs, it is as much about opportunity as it is about talent. Rudi Johnson, Brian Westbrook, Tiki Barber, Thomas Jones, Travis Henry, Willie Parker, Larry Johnson. All guys who took advantage of a runner ahead of them getting injured or being ineffective.

That list is only meaningful if you put it next to a list of guys who COULDN"T displace an injured or ineffective starter.

Why? People treating this as a positive for Jones' value are discounting the possibility entirely, and that is simply idiotic.

 

[jkirk56]

Kevin Jone has been a major dissapointment, especially over the last two years. Why is he so loved?

 

[menobrown]

Kevin Jone has been a major dissapointment, especially over the last two years. Why is he so loved?

In PPR leagues he was putting up near top 5 PPG numbers until he got hurt. If you want to contend him getting hurt made him a disappointment I won't argue that but if you drafted him last year you did so in the second round or later, he was probably your best or second best player, and while he may not have been around to help teams in the fantasy playoffs he sure got a lot of them in it.

 

[LHUCKS]

Kevin Jone has been a major dissapointment, especially over the last two years. Why is he so loved?

Games before his high ankle sprain in week 11.

+----------+-------------+--------+----+| WK  OPP  |  RSH   YD   |  RECYD | TD |+----------+-------------+--------+----+|  1  sea  |   14	35  |	45  |  0 ||  2  chi  |   12	44  |	38  |  0 ||  3  gnb  |   17	81  |	44  |  1 ||  4  stl  |   19	93  |	 4  |  2 ||  5  min  |   10	 8  |	42  |  0 ||  6  buf  |   23   127  |	36  |  1 ||  7  nyj  |   15	86  |	57  |  1 ||  9  atl  |   26   110  |	30  |  2 || 10  sfo  |   13	44  |	71  |  0 |+----------+-------------+--------+----+

For those of you that are bad at math that's nearly 1000 total yards, 5 TDs and 50 receptions in just 10 weeks of action.Jones was on pace for a top 10 year in both PPR and non-PPR formats.Here is where Jones Ranked through 10 weeks in non-ppr(remembering he led all NFL RBs in receptions at this point)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------									 Rush Rush Rush  Num  Rec  Rec  Fum   Fan   Avg  # Pos Running Back		  NFL GP  Att  Yds  TDs  Rec  Yds  TDs Lost   Pts   Pts--- --- --------------------- --- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- -----  1 RB  Tomlinson,Ladainian   SD   9  191  932   16   44  377	2	1 243.0 27.00  2 RB  Johnson,Larry		 KC   9  217  891   10   29  343	2	2 195.4 21.71  3 RB  Westbrook,Brian	   PHI  8  119  613	4   41  438	3	2 147.1 18.39  4 RB  Parker,Willie		 PIT  9  184  847	8   22  154	2	2 160.1 17.79  5 RB  Jackson,Steven		STL  9  188  784	5   47  452	0	1 153.6 17.07  6 RB  Jones,Kevin		   DET  9  149  628	6   50  367	1	4 141.5 15.72    7 RB  Gore,Frank			SF   9  165  831	4   33  261	0	4 133.2 14.80  8 RB  Barber,Tiki		   NYG  9  191  971	1   35  298	0	1 132.9 14.77  9 RB  Green,Ahman		   GB   7  142  616	3   20  173	1	2 102.9 14.70 10 RB  Brown,Ronnie		  MIA  9  176  710	5   28  246	0	2 125.6 13.96

That should just about put an end to this thread...my work here is done.

 

[painkiller]

I drafted KJ late just because he's a good back when healthy. I was fully aware that he might not be with the team to start the season and even if he wasn't on the PUP, his playing time would probably be limited in the first few weeks (if any at all). Around weeks 7-9 he's either 1) Trade bait, or 2) a valuable part of my squad for the stretch run and playoffs. He's my 5th RB, so I can afford to wait.

Would I like him to start playing full-time in week 4 and getting 100 yard games with a TD or two? Of course! I didn't expect it. Anyone who did was just fooling themself.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

when is the last time a RB began the year on the PUP list and made a fantasy impact?

Jones is likely done for this year. Even if he gets activated, he's not going to be the workorse people are expecting him to be.

Tatum Bell is in a great situation. I've never liked him as a player at all, but I agree that he has the potential to be one of the year's best values at RB in PPR leagues.

 

[moderated]

For KJ owners, this is nothing but good news.

Good news would have been that he's ready to go week #1, not that he's put on the PUP.Some of the logic in this thread is mind numbing.

 

[1huskerfan]

This is among the most hotly debated players this year. My opinion, based on the things I hear and read around here are that KJ is way ahead of his recovery time. He has been cutting and running full speed, but not had contact yet. He can't practice because of being on PUP. Martz said, based on seeing him run and cut, that he thought there was a good chance he was going to play in week 1. The coaches reportedly have lobbied for KJ to be activated, even if he was to miss 2-3 games. The doctors said his foot is very close to 100% healed. The placing him on PUP is the correct call and I don't see any negative to it because he is not in football shape anyways. He would miss 2-3 games no matter what. So they are just being cautious. I don't think there is any reason to think he will not be fully recovered based on everything that has been said and that has happened. I have not heard one negative thing about his rehab or his prognosis. I believe he will be at or near 100% by the time he can be taken off the PUP list. As for Bell, he is not a very tough inside runner, and really hasn't done much in the games. He is better in space. i think Martz really wanted KJ back sooner because he is a tough inside runner and that is lacking with Bell, not to mention being a better all around RB. it's hard to know for sure, but I can see the Lions passing all game long and just having a few runs unless Bell can run inside better. I think the fact that the coaches want him back right now tells me that they don't trust Bell to run the ball consistently, especially inside. If Kj is healthy, I personally don't have any doubts that he will start. That's just my two cents.

I'm quoting this, and I will quote your comments in previous Kevin Jones posts. You need to analyze them.

It may not have been you, actually. My apologies. But there were definitely people who thought this was unlikely to happen as late as a month ago, and I remember wondering at that time how dumb you had to be to believe that. I think it is similarly dumb to look at this as a positive for Kevin Jones' value. The Clinton Portis analogy is a good one.Especially with running backs, it is as much about opportunity as it is about talent. Rudi Johnson, Brian Westbrook, Tiki Barber, Thomas Jones, Travis Henry, Willie Parker, Larry Johnson. All guys who took advantage of a runner ahead of them getting injured or being ineffective.

That list is only meaningful if you put it next to a list of guys who COULDN"T displace an injured or ineffective starter.

Why? People treating this as a positive for Jones' value are discounting the possibility entirely, and that is simply idiotic.

So do you assume that Brian Leonard and Michael Turner owners are discounting the possibility that LT or SJax won't get hurt? OMG. how many of those people blew their 10th round pick on a guy who won't do anything this year?I would venture to guess that most of the people on this board who own KJ took him well after they had their starters. In the 3 drafts I have done so far he has gone:10.02 (92) RB610.10 (108) RB512.03 (147) RB5I can care less what his season numbers are. IMO he is worth the calculated risk, whether he plays or not. For an RB5-6 he has more upside than anyone. Everyone can continue to proclaim that the sky is falling, I am happy either way. If you are depending on more production out of that spot I suppose you have bigger problems.

 

[1huskerfan]

I drafted KJ late just because he's a good back when healthy. I was fully aware that he might not be with the team to start the season and even if he wasn't on the PUP, his playing time would probably be limited in the first few weeks (if any at all). Around weeks 7-9 he's either 1) Trade bait, or 2) a valuable part of my squad for the stretch run and playoffs. He's my 5th RB, so I can afford to wait.Would I like him to start playing full-time in week 4 and getting 100 yard games with a TD or two? Of course! I didn't expect it. Anyone who did was just fooling themself.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

For KJ owners, this is nothing but good news.

Good news would have been that he's ready to go week #1, not that he's put on the PUP.Some of the logic in this thread is mind numbing.

seriously. it's good to hear positive reports about his recovery, but now he can't even practice with the team for the first 6 weeks of the season. he's not going to hit the ground running once the PUP time frame is up. you might be looking at week 10 by the time he's ready to make a real contribution.

 

[Block]

This is among the most hotly debated players this year. My opinion, based on the things I hear and read around here are that KJ is way ahead of his recovery time. He has been cutting and running full speed, but not had contact yet. He can't practice because of being on PUP. Martz said, based on seeing him run and cut, that he thought there was a good chance he was going to play in week 1. The coaches reportedly have lobbied for KJ to be activated, even if he was to miss 2-3 games. The doctors said his foot is very close to 100% healed. The placing him on PUP is the correct call and I don't see any negative to it because he is not in football shape anyways. He would miss 2-3 games no matter what. So they are just being cautious. I don't think there is any reason to think he will not be fully recovered based on everything that has been said and that has happened. I have not heard one negative thing about his rehab or his prognosis. I believe he will be at or near 100% by the time he can be taken off the PUP list. As for Bell, he is not a very tough inside runner, and really hasn't done much in the games. He is better in space. i think Martz really wanted KJ back sooner because he is a tough inside runner and that is lacking with Bell, not to mention being a better all around RB. it's hard to know for sure, but I can see the Lions passing all game long and just having a few runs unless Bell can run inside better. I think the fact that the coaches want him back right now tells me that they don't trust Bell to run the ball consistently, especially inside. If Kj is healthy, I personally don't have any doubts that he will start. That's just my two cents.

I'm quoting this, and I will quote your comments in previous Kevin Jones posts. You need to analyze them.

It may not have been you, actually. My apologies. But there were definitely people who thought this was unlikely to happen as late as a month ago, and I remember wondering at that time how dumb you had to be to believe that. I think it is similarly dumb to look at this as a positive for Kevin Jones' value. The Clinton Portis analogy is a good one.Especially with running backs, it is as much about opportunity as it is about talent. Rudi Johnson, Brian Westbrook, Tiki Barber, Thomas Jones, Travis Henry, Willie Parker, Larry Johnson. All guys who took advantage of a runner ahead of them getting injured or being ineffective.

That list is only meaningful if you put it next to a list of guys who COULDN"T displace an injured or ineffective starter.

Why? People treating this as a positive for Jones' value are discounting the possibility entirely, and that is simply idiotic.

So do you assume that Brian Leonard and Michael Turner owners are discounting the possibility that LT or SJax won't get hurt? OMG. how many of those people blew their 10th round pick on a guy who won't do anything this year?I would venture to guess that most of the people on this board who own KJ took him well after they had their starters. In the 3 drafts I have done so far he has gone:10.02 (92) RB610.10 (108) RB512.03 (147) RB5I can care less what his season numbers are. IMO he is worth the calculated risk, whether he plays or not. For an RB5-6 he has more upside than anyone. Everyone can continue to proclaim that the sky is falling, I am happy either way. If you are depending on more production out of that spot I suppose you have bigger problems.

You honestly might be better off going with Jesse Chatman than KJ at this point.

 

[Block]

For KJ owners, this is nothing but good news.

Good news would have been that he's ready to go week #1, not that he's put on the PUP.Some of the logic in this thread is mind numbing.

seriously. it's good to hear positive reports about his recovery, but now he can't even practice with the team for the first 6 weeks of the season. he's not going to hit the ground running once the PUP time frame is up. you might be looking at week 10 by the time he's ready to make a real contribution.

Exactly. Even if he is 100%, he won't be able to go from not practicing for two months to starting between week 6 and 7.

 

[jkirk56]

Kevin Jone has been a major dissapointment, especially over the last two years. Why is he so loved?

Games before his high ankle sprain in week 11.

+----------+-------------+--------+----+| WK  OPP  |  RSH   YD   |  RECYD | TD |+----------+-------------+--------+----+|  1  sea  |   14	35  |	45  |  0 ||  2  chi  |   12	44  |	38  |  0 ||  3  gnb  |   17	81  |	44  |  1 ||  4  stl  |   19	93  |	 4  |  2 ||  5  min  |   10	 8  |	42  |  0 ||  6  buf  |   23   127  |	36  |  1 ||  7  nyj  |   15	86  |	57  |  1 ||  9  atl  |   26   110  |	30  |  2 || 10  sfo  |   13	44  |	71  |  0 |+----------+-------------+--------+----+

For those of you that are bad at math that's nearly 1000 total yards, 5 TDs and 50 receptions in just 10 weeks of action.Jones was on pace for a top 10 year in both PPR and non-PPR formats.Here is where Jones Ranked through 10 weeks in non-ppr(remembering he led all NFL RBs in receptions at this point)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------									 Rush Rush Rush  Num  Rec  Rec  Fum   Fan   Avg  # Pos Running Back		  NFL GP  Att  Yds  TDs  Rec  Yds  TDs Lost   Pts   Pts--- --- --------------------- --- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- -----  1 RB  Tomlinson,Ladainian   SD   9  191  932   16   44  377	2	1 243.0 27.00  2 RB  Johnson,Larry		 KC   9  217  891   10   29  343	2	2 195.4 21.71  3 RB  Westbrook,Brian	   PHI  8  119  613	4   41  438	3	2 147.1 18.39  4 RB  Parker,Willie		 PIT  9  184  847	8   22  154	2	2 160.1 17.79  5 RB  Jackson,Steven		STL  9  188  784	5   47  452	0	1 153.6 17.07  6 RB  Jones,Kevin		   DET  9  149  628	6   50  367	1	4 141.5 15.72    7 RB  Gore,Frank			SF   9  165  831	4   33  261	0	4 133.2 14.80  8 RB  Barber,Tiki		   NYG  9  191  971	1   35  298	0	1 132.9 14.77  9 RB  Green,Ahman		   GB   7  142  616	3   20  173	1	2 102.9 14.70 10 RB  Brown,Ronnie		  MIA  9  176  710	5   28  246	0	2 125.6 13.96

That should just about put an end to this thread...my work here is done.

YOu can quote all the stats you want, but this guy has never been healthy and, it seems, never will be. Why would anybody rely on him as a RB1 or RB2....It's crazy. On top of that, of the stats you are quoting, only three of those ten weeks were true stand out weeks. He has never won a fantasy owner anything.

 

[Gopher State]

Kevin Jone has been a major dissapointment, especially over the last two years. Why is he so loved?

Games before his high ankle sprain in week 11.

+----------+-------------+--------+----+| WK  OPP  |  RSH   YD   |  RECYD | TD |+----------+-------------+--------+----+|  1  sea  |   14	35  |	45  |  0 ||  2  chi  |   12	44  |	38  |  0 ||  3  gnb  |   17	81  |	44  |  1 ||  4  stl  |   19	93  |	 4  |  2 ||  5  min  |   10	 8  |	42  |  0 ||  6  buf  |   23   127  |	36  |  1 ||  7  nyj  |   15	86  |	57  |  1 ||  9  atl  |   26   110  |	30  |  2 || 10  sfo  |   13	44  |	71  |  0 |+----------+-------------+--------+----+

For those of you that are bad at math that's nearly 1000 total yards, 5 TDs and 50 receptions in just 10 weeks of action.Jones was on pace for a top 10 year in both PPR and non-PPR formats.Here is where Jones Ranked through 10 weeks in non-ppr(remembering he led all NFL RBs in receptions at this point)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------									 Rush Rush Rush  Num  Rec  Rec  Fum   Fan   Avg  # Pos Running Back		  NFL GP  Att  Yds  TDs  Rec  Yds  TDs Lost   Pts   Pts--- --- --------------------- --- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- -----  1 RB  Tomlinson,Ladainian   SD   9  191  932   16   44  377	2	1 243.0 27.00  2 RB  Johnson,Larry		 KC   9  217  891   10   29  343	2	2 195.4 21.71  3 RB  Westbrook,Brian	   PHI  8  119  613	4   41  438	3	2 147.1 18.39  4 RB  Parker,Willie		 PIT  9  184  847	8   22  154	2	2 160.1 17.79  5 RB  Jackson,Steven		STL  9  188  784	5   47  452	0	1 153.6 17.07  6 RB  Jones,Kevin		   DET  9  149  628	6   50  367	1	4 141.5 15.72    7 RB  Gore,Frank			SF   9  165  831	4   33  261	0	4 133.2 14.80  8 RB  Barber,Tiki		   NYG  9  191  971	1   35  298	0	1 132.9 14.77  9 RB  Green,Ahman		   GB   7  142  616	3   20  173	1	2 102.9 14.70 10 RB  Brown,Ronnie		  MIA  9  176  710	5   28  246	0	2 125.6 13.96

That should just about put an end to this thread...my work here is done.

Last time I checked the NFL season is 16 games, Jones hurt a lot of FF teams last year when he went out, IMO Jones is injury prone until he proves otherwise. Bell may get on fire and never look back, time will tell.

 

[Plainsman]

I havent read all the posts, sorry if this has been said before...

100% HEALED does not mean 100% HEALTH.

This is a false expectation many patients have when going to a doctor. They expect that by fixing the problem they will be returned to their normal ability/function. In other words, once KJ is 100% healed he may never feel 100% again (this is one of those injuries). After a procedure like this there will be scar tissue, there will be arthritis, and there will be pain as a result. How much? Thats something we are unable to determine with the info at hand and not knowing how much KJ will be able to tolerate it. He may have a succussful recovery and be normal in everyday activities, but you are kidding yourself if you expect that once healed and he returns that he will no longer be affected by the stress and strain that a NFL rb puts on their feet.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I've tried to stay out of this thread but as a Tatum Bell owner I feel it is going to be green light for almost the entire season and here is why. KJ is out till week 7...do you really think they will just insert him and give him 75% of the touches in week 7? Give me a break!

KJ would be eased back in slowly, maybe 5-10 touches a game for a few weeks. And if Bell were to really excel in this offense, I doubt they just put Bell on the bench. Plus Bell ahs experience sharing the backfield and did pretty well splitting time and still being productive.

Bell is going to move up my charts going into the weekend.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

How long was the contract Tatum Bell signed?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

How long was the contract Tatum Bell signed?

6 weeks apparently

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Count me as struggling to see how this is in any way good news for Jones. He's going to miss the first 6 weeks of the season. This might be good news for him in 2008 but it's a disaster for 2007 IMO.And I'd put zero stock in the "he's almost fully healthy and they expect him to return at 100%" This is standard company line speak most anytime a player is in this situation. I would not be the least bit surprised to see Jones limited by this all season. I'm not especially a Tatum Bell fan but this is a fantastic opportunity for him. And we all know opportunity is half the battle. Martz was raving about him early this month saying "He's the whole package. He's got so much juice to him. He can go. He's taken our offense and learned it so well. He doesn't make any mistakes. He's catching the ball extremely well. He's playing at such a high level right now." I don't think he'll be Marshall Faulk but I think he'll be a huge value in many leagues.J

I don't know Joe, I see him as having the potential to score 3-4 TDs all season long.

Hey Woodrow,Is that because you think Duckett will get them? Or Jones comes back strong?I know you factor this in but one thing I think many folks overlook is that most fantasy "regular seasons" are 14 games long. Jones is going to miss at least 43% of the "regular season". For the 5 games Jones is out, how do you think the rushing TDs will go for the Lions?J

And to add Jason, are you of the opinion that Jones is 100% for Week 7?That may be some of the divide. I'm not of that opinion.J

I honestly don't think Jones comes back at full strength in Week Seven. I currently project Jones with 110 rushes on the season, so clearly I'm not sold on his recovery and view him as not draftable in standard-sized leagues.But I think Bell, for his opportunity, is proven himself to be pretty bad in a lot of ways.1) He's AWFUL in short yardage2) He turns the ball over (as a runner and receiver)3) He's not durable (misses games, doesn't play hurt)4) He's not an above average blocker (not that Martz cares about pass protection, LOL)I think the reason people look at Bell and get excited is his yardage production (really the only thing he's done well thus far). Yet, as I talked about in the Travis Henry spotlight, backs that have played for Shanahan have averaged almost a full yard LESS per carry at their other stops...including:# Clinton Portis -- 5.5 YPR as a Bronco, 4.1 YPR as a Redskin# Reuben Droughns -- 4.4 YPR as a Bronco, 3.7 YPR as a Lion/Brown# Olandis Gary -- 4.2 YPR as a Bronco, 3.4 YPR as a LionNow consider that this is a team that ran 304 times last year (worst in the NFL), and threw 597 times (2nd highest in the NFL); and you tell me how Bell is going to get consistent fantasy point production? I just don't see it...again, if you are in a league where you start 3 RBs (UTIL, Flex); then I could see Bell being a decent option as your RB3 depending on the matchup. But here's the real rub...Bell's ADP is ALREADY 72nd overall; and that's before this KJ news. I will bet dollars to donuts somebody starts eyeing him up in the 4th and 5th rounds over the next week and that, to me, makes no sense.

Hi Jason,Just to talk to one part of your point. I hear a lot lately it seems about how this team or that team runs X times. Shouldn't we look at the player? Kevin Jones in that offense last year that everyone thinks is bad for RBs saw 15 rushes and 6.5 pass targets per game. I can see making the argument that Bell isn't Jones. But it looks to me like the DET #1 RB job is pretty good. Don't you think?J

I dunno Joe...Jones was a VERY pedestrian runner last year, averaged 3.8 yards per carry. Since I don't objectively think Bell is as gifted a runner as Jones (when healthy), I don't see why Bell is being projected for 4.3, 4.4 yards per carry (I made this mistake until recently, too). But unlike Jones, Bell makes big-time mistakes (fumbles, missed blocks). Those things get you yanked.Boiling this down, I think Bell is an inferior back to Jones, and he was only valuable in fantasy circles last year because of all the receptions.Now MAYBE Kitna throws to Bell a ton, which is entirely possible. In which case Bell could have some value. But as a runner? Not seeing it.

OOOORRR, maybe Jones just isn't as great a runner as everyone around here seems to think he is, and Bell is in fact a SUPERIOR runner. I just think it's funny that a no one even considers the possibility that the vastly better YPC Bell has over Jones is all system and no talent. Mike Anderson ran for 4.2 in Denver when Bell ran at 5.3 for almost a 1000 yards.Since he's been in the NFL, I just haven't seen anything special out of Jones, and I don't think it's because of his situation. He's NOT all that fast, not all that elsuive, and he isn't all that powerful a runner. What's left? Pass-catching? THAT's the system.BTW, I don't own Bell or Jones in any leagues.

 

[my man otis]

Tatum Bell owners

Short lived. This is great news for Kevin Jones owners. It all but assures that he will be 100% for week 7.

OKSo if Tatum blows up in the Martz offense throught week 6 he will be immediately benched upon KJ's return?At a minimum they will work KJ back in but unless Bell falls flat on his face early in the year, no way KJ is not in a RBBC.Martz is not the kind of guy that tinkers with things when they (or if they) are working.So if I am a KJ owner I am praying Bell does not shine.And as a Bell owner I gotta love his potential

Bingo. Nothing is guaranteed. It could even be Duckett, but if you own KJ you better hope Bell stinks up the joint. If he plays well and the team is 4-2, don't bet on the switch being made.

 

[my man otis]

At best, he'll be 15 carries a game for five weeks...not worth a pick in the first half of drafts. When Jones gets back he'll be close to 100% and he will make Bell an afterthought...Martz and company have stated over and over Jones is the starter when he gets back.

i was implying touches, not just carries, but i agree Bell won't ever be a big carry guy. There is no doubt Kevin Jones is FAR superior to Bell when healthy, but i think it's being a big optimistic to assume K.Jones will definitely be 100% in 5-6 weeks, in reality no one knows for sure. Lisfranc injuries are the kiss of death for many of the players who have had them.I would much rather have a player blow an ACL then have a lisfranc injury as there is a lot of history with ACL surgery and recoveries, not so much with lisfranc.

It drives me crazy that people just will not accept that the team and and the doctor who performed the surgery have all publicly stated that K.J is close to 100% but they see no need to set him back by starting him now....what part of that don`t people understand???? Why bother saying how far along he is at all....unless it was positive news. I see it as he is so close to being able to play that if they started him now it would be ''risky'' , why not let the other rb`s play and tatum can learn the mike martz offence even more(which is quite complicated) and in 5 weeks K.J will be MORE than ready to go without any concerns with setbacks. If K.J was as bad as some people are speculating why would`nt the team just I.R him for the year and bring in someone else?

why IR a player for the whole season if you only have to put him on the PUP list for 6 weeks? You don't, so they didn't put him on the IR.Actions speak louder than words - he's not healthy regardless of what anyone states.

 

[joffer]

when is the last time a RB began the year on the PUP list and made a fantasy impact?Jones is likely done for this year. Even if he gets activated, he's not going to be the workorse people are expecting him to be.Tatum Bell is in a great situation. I've never liked him as a player at all, but I agree that he has the potential to be one of the year's best values at RB in PPR leagues.

i think i like this one the best

 

[moderated]

when is the last time a RB began the year on the PUP list and made a fantasy impact?Jones is likely done for this year. Even if he gets activated, he's not going to be the workorse people are expecting him to be.Tatum Bell is in a great situation. I've never liked him as a player at all, but I agree that he has the potential to be one of the year's best values at RB in PPR leagues.

i think i like this one the best

Great question that no one seems to be able to answer. Is it possibly because there haven't been any?Kevin Jones is likely toast for this season as far as FF is concerned.

 

[Koya]

when is the last time a RB began the year on the PUP list and made a fantasy impact?Jones is likely done for this year. Even if he gets activated, he's not going to be the workorse people are expecting him to be.Tatum Bell is in a great situation. I've never liked him as a player at all, but I agree that he has the potential to be one of the year's best values at RB in PPR leagues.

i think i like this one the best

Great question that no one seems to be able to answer. Is it possibly because there haven't been any?Kevin Jones is likely toast for this season as far as FF is concerned.

The "PUP" Label I think makes a bad situation look considerably WORSE.Who cares about whether anyone came back from "PUP" - Has any RB missed the first 4 or 5 games of a season due to INJURY and come back to make an impact? THAT is the question. Jones will miss 5 games. That is less than 1/3 of his season. From what we hear, it is possible that Jones would be ok to go after 3 or 4 games as he is "close" to being healthy (which only means close to getting hurt again but I digress). The team KNOWS that Jones has FAR more talent than Bell, and if Bell can at least help them get to 2-3 before Jones comes back, if he is indeed healed then Jones will be the one to play UNLESS Bell consistently plays better than he has ever consistently played as well... while not getting hurt himself (no small task).My money come week 7? Lions are 2-3 and Jones is back. Or Lions are 1-4 and they are DESPERATE to get Jones back before the season disappears for the whole team.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Lions VP & COO Tom Lewand said during the pregame radio show that reports of Kevin Jones to PUP are "incredibly premature" and that a decision has not been made yet. No link..just my own two ears.

While it seems destined to happen..that was the official line from the Lions that I heard.

Now back to your regularly scheduled bickering!

 

[McBokonon]

Lions VP & COO Tom Lewand said during the pregame radio show that reports of Kevin Jones to PUP are "incredibly premature" and that a decision has not been made yet. No link..just my own two ears.While it seems destined to happen..that was the official line from the Lions that I heard. Now back to your regularly scheduled bickering!

and really, even the original article doesn't say he's been placed on PUP, only that the doctor agreed he should be placed on PUP. He still likely will be, but I don't see anything from the team itself other than they'll likely announce their decision tomorrow.