Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Kevin Jones or Julius? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter biggamer3
- Start date
diesel7982
Footballguy
Id go with KJ for talent, and JJ for situation.
M
MLBrandow
Guest
I vote KJ by a lot.
I don't even like JJ, and apparently neither does the Cowboys' coaching staff, since they are letting a mediocre backup unseat him as the starting RB this season.
At least KJ can blame Harrrington for those 9-man boxes. What can JJ blame losing his starting job on, MB3 being better?
I don't even like JJ, and apparently neither does the Cowboys' coaching staff, since they are letting a mediocre backup unseat him as the starting RB this season.
At least KJ can blame Harrrington for those 9-man boxes. What can JJ blame losing his starting job on, MB3 being better?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
JJ is going to lose touches to Barber and has problems staying healthy. He also had only one 100 yard rushing game last year. JJ jas shown he can have some big games, and IMO that's what people remember--not the 10 other games where he's ok. If the OL is healthy and improved, Jones could be in for a great year. If you believe the addition of Owens will open up more holes, better still. I'm guess a total of 1300 yards and 7-8 TD.
KJ is being pimped by the Lions as a 3 down back that will be in on every play (or so it seems). As we all know, Martz cannot be expected to feed a RB the ball 350 carries. 250-275 seems more like the likley range. Martz also has used RB in the reeiving game a fare amount (even excluding Faulk's insane numbers). A total of 1500/8 is not out of the question.
I may be in the minority, but I would rather have Kevin over Julius.
KJ is being pimped by the Lions as a 3 down back that will be in on every play (or so it seems). As we all know, Martz cannot be expected to feed a RB the ball 350 carries. 250-275 seems more like the likley range. Martz also has used RB in the reeiving game a fare amount (even excluding Faulk's insane numbers). A total of 1500/8 is not out of the question.
I may be in the minority, but I would rather have Kevin over Julius.
Traders2001
Footballguy
Agreed if he stays healthy there is no way Barber steals too many carries , and he will outproduce the overrated KJ by a mile.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Martz has had years where his RB had 90-100+ total receptions. I have KJ getting 50 receptions. There's still plenty of receptions to go around. I don't think that he'll get a ton of carries though.
Julius has a better offense, can't stay healthy, and has a capable and tested RB chopping at the bit behind him.
Kevin has a new RB-friendly HC, hasn' matched his past productions, has a much easier schedule, and has a untested but talented backup.
If it's a PPR league I give the nod to KJ, if it's a regular league it depends on who my #1 RB is. If my #1 is a sure bet I take the risker pick in Julius, if my #1 has some question marks I take the safer bet in KJ.
Kevin has a new RB-friendly HC, hasn' matched his past productions, has a much easier schedule, and has a untested but talented backup.
If it's a PPR league I give the nod to KJ, if it's a regular league it depends on who my #1 RB is. If my #1 is a sure bet I take the risker pick in Julius, if my #1 has some question marks I take the safer bet in KJ.
ruelvis
Footballguy
i agree with both points. everyone points out JJ losing touches to Barber but rarely do i read about KJ losing touches to Calhoun or Pinner which is critical since receptions seem to be a key component of a Martz rb being a top fantasy producer. IMO there is a reason they drafted rb so early considering they've gone offense first in the last few drafts and their most urgent needs are obviously on the other side of the ball. i just don't think the coaches have a lot of confidence in KJ and calhoun will get a lot of opportunities once he proves he can pick up the NFL blitzes.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Buckeyedawgs
Footballguy
No one mentioned KJ was also hurt most of last year with a bumb shoulder. Tuff choice here KJ vs JJ! So many question marks on both going into the season. The news favors KJ at this point of time but I am leaning on JJ to finally to put togeter his 1700 yd,15 to 20 td year we all been anxiously waiting for. In leagues supporting reception bonus for RB KJ could be the better choice. I still almost have to flip a coin!
diesel7982
Footballguy
Calling Brian Calhoun's hands "better" than KJ's is conjecture at best at this point.Plenty of RBs can't transition recieving skills over to the NFL(Fred Taylor comes to mind); and we have no idea how much KJ has improved in that respect this offseason.
KJ by quite a bit.
Julius will get carries, but since Barber is a better receiver, better blocker, and better goal-line runner it looks like Jones's upside is severely limited this coming season.
KJ may be a bit riskier, but he has potential to be huge, whereas JJ doesn't since he will be spelled in many situations by Barber.
Julius will get carries, but since Barber is a better receiver, better blocker, and better goal-line runner it looks like Jones's upside is severely limited this coming season.
KJ may be a bit riskier, but he has potential to be huge, whereas JJ doesn't since he will be spelled in many situations by Barber.
Rev
Footballguy
As an owner of KJ and Calhoun, I'd say that KJ is the man while Calhoun is a special teamer who's just waiting in the wings for KJ to get injured or perform poorly. At that point, Calhoun could really surprise some people. However, it's KJ's spot to lose, and if he keeps it, he'll be a fantasy stud in PPR leagues.
I actually had both in a 10 team 4 player keeper league and just last week traded JJ away. McHagee is my other RB keeper
A few things I took into consideration
1) His injury risk. Yes KJ was injured too but on paper and in person KJ looks like he could be more durable over the long run. Not to mention JJ's brother has been a walking injury his entire career, could be genetic.
2) MBIII. Whether it's coach speak or not Parcells seems to have a fancy for this guy. Here is a little tidbit that just came out yesterday.
07/12/06 01:02 PM
THE NEWS
Third-year running back Julius Jones remains atop the backfield depth chart, but there's little question that backup Marion Barber is pushing his teammate. "I like Barber a lot," head coach Bill Parcells told the team's official website. "He doesn't have great speed, but he's a very, very good blocker, he's a very, very good receiver, and he has very good vision as a runner. He's just not a breakaway guy. But I think his role will be expanded."
Our View
We think what Parcells is trying to say here is that Barber is "very good." Talk of expanded roles is pretty much mindless coach-speak drivel this time of year, but it's safe to say that there is no true feature back in Dallas. Jones and Barber will both see action, and while Julius will get first crack, the battle will be determined by who performs better and stays healthy.
3) The Lions Schedule is one of the easiest in the league while Dallas has one of the toughest. I remember what KJ did in 2004 when he had an easy schedule.
4) Goal line Situations: Even if Calhoun does get some 3rd down work I am confident as long as he is healthy KJ will get goal line carries. I could see TO, Witten and Barber all taking redzone opportunities away from JJ.
5) Everything I have read about KJ is that he is a disciplined hard worker without an attitude. Been a ton of press about his conditioning program during offseason and how he is catching hundres of balls a day to improve receiving skills.
6) In a keeper league I feel KJ could be more valuable. I could see the Cowboys imploding if things go bad this year. Parcell leaves, TO leaves, Bledsoe and Glenn are not spring chickens. Could see Dallas in rebuildmode in another year or two. Lions have a ton of younf talent and I think two adequate QBs one vet and one younger guy. Green/Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt early on remind me a lot of Kitna/McCown/KJ/Williams.
JJ could have more upside but far more down side. It would ultimately come down to who my #1 RB was, if it's SA or LJ I may rool the dice with JJ. I think the safer bet is KJ.
A few things I took into consideration
1) His injury risk. Yes KJ was injured too but on paper and in person KJ looks like he could be more durable over the long run. Not to mention JJ's brother has been a walking injury his entire career, could be genetic.
2) MBIII. Whether it's coach speak or not Parcells seems to have a fancy for this guy. Here is a little tidbit that just came out yesterday.
07/12/06 01:02 PM
THE NEWS
Third-year running back Julius Jones remains atop the backfield depth chart, but there's little question that backup Marion Barber is pushing his teammate. "I like Barber a lot," head coach Bill Parcells told the team's official website. "He doesn't have great speed, but he's a very, very good blocker, he's a very, very good receiver, and he has very good vision as a runner. He's just not a breakaway guy. But I think his role will be expanded."
Our View
We think what Parcells is trying to say here is that Barber is "very good." Talk of expanded roles is pretty much mindless coach-speak drivel this time of year, but it's safe to say that there is no true feature back in Dallas. Jones and Barber will both see action, and while Julius will get first crack, the battle will be determined by who performs better and stays healthy.
3) The Lions Schedule is one of the easiest in the league while Dallas has one of the toughest. I remember what KJ did in 2004 when he had an easy schedule.
4) Goal line Situations: Even if Calhoun does get some 3rd down work I am confident as long as he is healthy KJ will get goal line carries. I could see TO, Witten and Barber all taking redzone opportunities away from JJ.
5) Everything I have read about KJ is that he is a disciplined hard worker without an attitude. Been a ton of press about his conditioning program during offseason and how he is catching hundres of balls a day to improve receiving skills.
6) In a keeper league I feel KJ could be more valuable. I could see the Cowboys imploding if things go bad this year. Parcell leaves, TO leaves, Bledsoe and Glenn are not spring chickens. Could see Dallas in rebuildmode in another year or two. Lions have a ton of younf talent and I think two adequate QBs one vet and one younger guy. Green/Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt early on remind me a lot of Kitna/McCown/KJ/Williams.
JJ could have more upside but far more down side. It would ultimately come down to who my #1 RB was, if it's SA or LJ I may rool the dice with JJ. I think the safer bet is KJ.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
???
Last edited by a moderator:
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I think Shawn Bryson is a sleeper in Detroit. 
M
MLBrandow
Guest
And we all know that one game makes an entire fantasy season. All that did was piss off every JJ owner who had him on the bench because after they wasted a first round pick on him, he started off sluggish followed by injuring himself, followed by several more weeks of below-average production.
Chiefs Transplant
Footballguy
This is some of the best logic i have seen on the subject. Helath concerns is a given for both of them so that's a wash.The upside to KJ is quite a bit higher in my opinion. They are both a risk without a doubt but i believe KJ stands to produce the biggest reward, especially if the stories of KJ working on his recieving skills like a man possesed are true.
Rev
Footballguy
I agree with this, but the TO factor is another wild card to consider. If he really opens things up and creates opportunities for everyone, Julius could have a solid year and jump into the top 10.
The upside to KJ is quite a bit higher in my opinion. They are both a risk without a doubt but i believe KJ stands to produce the biggest reward, especially if the stories of KJ working on his recieving skills like a man possesed are true.
NYG Endzone
Footballguy
Neither
Kevin,but the Lions must fix up that O Line, and then he should be durable. Receving game with Mike Martz has to click like he did with the Rams then KJ will have better lanes to use his speed and strength, also he has slimed down, is in good shape and has been working alot on his receiving skills, so he could be a back that gets alot of yards rushing and receving, but he still needs to improve with the TDs.
Julius I just really dont know about him, but he did play without his LT for alot of the season , if he can bulk up and take the carries and keep his speed, then he could be really good. With the addition of TO, he upgrades the WRs to make them respect the pass to open up lanes for him. All in all he really needs to improve his durability (wasnt he out at least 1 game a season since college through the pros?) and he could be a No.1 back.
Julius I just really dont know about him, but he did play without his LT for alot of the season , if he can bulk up and take the carries and keep his speed, then he could be really good. With the addition of TO, he upgrades the WRs to make them respect the pass to open up lanes for him. All in all he really needs to improve his durability (wasnt he out at least 1 game a season since college through the pros?) and he could be a No.1 back.
Last edited by a moderator:
losgalacticos
Footballguy
As an owner (and worrier) of both- I like Kevin more right now.
I keep reading about Martz limiting his carries, but he is NOT the head coach! THe HC is reported to want to pound the ball, and I am encouraged by what they are saying about his receiving skills. He has always been known as a hard worker.
JJ has real competition issues. He needs space to run. If he doesn't get it, he will truely share with Barber. He needs to have a great 1st or 2nd game to set the stage for the season. Kevin has more time with his new coaches to prove himself.
I keep reading about Martz limiting his carries, but he is NOT the head coach! THe HC is reported to want to pound the ball, and I am encouraged by what they are saying about his receiving skills. He has always been known as a hard worker.
JJ has real competition issues. He needs space to run. If he doesn't get it, he will truely share with Barber. He needs to have a great 1st or 2nd game to set the stage for the season. Kevin has more time with his new coaches to prove himself.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
In vacuum if you ask me to pick the guy I want, it would be KJ as I think he has much more physicality to him and is faster than JJ. JJ clearly cuts better and probably has better vision. Thier hands are close but it appears KJ did a lot of work in the offseason.What I don't know are their personalities. This year it looks like KJ has matured a lot but prior I would have said that JJ wants to be "great" more than KJ.
The offense should be more in favor of JJ IMO, but Barber is more of a threat so I would call it a wash.
KJ by a small margin.
I would disagree that MBIII is a better reciever and goal line runner. JJ is a far better back, he just can't stay healthy. MBIII is no more than a above average back in all respects. He just hasn't been injury prone like JJ.
The upside to KJ is quite a bit higher in my opinion. They are both a risk without a doubt but i believe KJ stands to produce the biggest reward, especially if the stories of KJ working on his recieving skills like a man possesed are true.
Banger
Footballguy
You say it but I just don't see it. The guy had two good games last year and Barber had two good games. Jones averaged 3.86 ypc, Barber averaged 3.89 despite Barber getting the short distance carries which tend to hurt the ypc. JJ blew up a few games his 1st season but he had 30+ in nearly each of those games and he's shown that he clearly cannot take the pounding to be that kind of back thus they've turned to Barber to help carry the load. In season 1 JJ gets all the carries and wound up with a few huge games and I don't believe he'll get that opportunity again. Look at how they were used down the stretch last year, that's how they'll be used this year. Parcells used JJ on 1st/2nd down, Barber on 3rd/short yardage/breathers/ and possibly goalline.I would disagree that MBIII is a better reciever and goal line runner. JJ is a far better back, he just can't stay healthy. MBIII is no more than a above average back in all respects. He just hasn't been injury prone like JJ.
The upside to KJ is quite a bit higher in my opinion. They are both a risk without a doubt but i believe KJ stands to produce the biggest reward, especially if the stories of KJ working on his recieving skills like a man possesed are true.
Big Score
Footballguy
Mistake 101 in Fantasy Football.One thing to be careful of when evaluating players from a personal viewpoint, is to recognize that while you personally may not view a particular player as a better receiver or goal line runner, your views are meaningless if the Head Coach of the player evaluates that particular player differently.I would disagree that MBIII is a better reciever and goal line runner. JJ is a far better back, he just can't stay healthy. MBIII is no more than a above average back in all respects. He just hasn't been injury prone like JJ.
The upside to KJ is quite a bit higher in my opinion. They are both a risk without a doubt but i believe KJ stands to produce the biggest reward, especially if the stories of KJ working on his recieving skills like a man possesed are true.
In other words, don't get caught up in ranking a player based on your personal preference / viewpoint, while totally ignoring what the Head Coach is thinking & saying.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Mistake 101 in Fantasy Football.One thing to be careful of when evaluating players from a personal viewpoint, is to recognize that while you personally may not view a particular player as a better receiver or goal line runner, your views are meaningless if the Head Coach of the player evaluates that particular player differently.I would disagree that MBIII is a better reciever and goal line runner. JJ is a far better back, he just can't stay healthy. MBIII is no more than a above average back in all respects. He just hasn't been injury prone like JJ.
The upside to KJ is quite a bit higher in my opinion. They are both a risk without a doubt but i believe KJ stands to produce the biggest reward, especially if the stories of KJ working on his recieving skills like a man possesed are true.
In other words, don't get caught up in ranking a player based on your personal preference / viewpoint, while totally ignoring what the Head Coach is thinking & saying.
nicely put - last year, it was clear that MBIII was in on the GL and short yardage plays.JJ is a better receiver AND was used more extensively in the passing game. He's the primary pass catching back for the 'boys.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
another
Harris is Martz' guy - and Martz likes to play "his" guys. But, it doesn't matter.KJ losing catches to Harris OR Calhoun is the samne argument as Faulk losing catches to SJax - in SJax' first year, Faulk still caught plenty of passes (50 or so, IIRC)
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Footballguy
JJ would be better IMHO in a PPR league and although I think Martz will make the passing game better in Detroit I do not think KJ's value will increase that much.Mistake 101 in Fantasy Football.One thing to be careful of when evaluating players from a personal viewpoint, is to recognize that while you personally may not view a particular player as a better receiver or goal line runner, your views are meaningless if the Head Coach of the player evaluates that particular player differently.I would disagree that MBIII is a better reciever and goal line runner. JJ is a far better back, he just can't stay healthy. MBIII is no more than a above average back in all respects. He just hasn't been injury prone like JJ.
The upside to KJ is quite a bit higher in my opinion. They are both a risk without a doubt but i believe KJ stands to produce the biggest reward, especially if the stories of KJ working on his recieving skills like a man possesed are true.
In other words, don't get caught up in ranking a player based on your personal preference / viewpoint, while totally ignoring what the Head Coach is thinking & saying.
JJ is a better receiver AND was used more extensively in the passing game. He's the primary pass catching back for the 'boys.
radballs
Footballguy
Good thread. I'm in a 10 team two player keeper league and I have both guys. Instead of keeping one or the other or both, I'm going to throw them both back in and keep Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens. Neither one of them instills any confidence but if you put a gun to my head I'd prefer KJ over JJ by a slight margin.
Last edited by a moderator:
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
and you probably get one back in the first round, right?
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
even in a 2-player keeper, bush should be gone very early.
I'm not holding my breath with the 5th pick.
Banger
Footballguy
From the horses' (Parcells) mouth from Dallascowboys.com:
"I like Barber a lot," Parcells said. "He doesn't have great speed but he's a very, very good blocker, he's a very, very good receiver and he has very good vision as a runner. He's elusive in the hole. He's just not a breakaway guy. But I think his role will be expanded."
"I like Barber a lot," Parcells said. "He doesn't have great speed but he's a very, very good blocker, he's a very, very good receiver and he has very good vision as a runner. He's elusive in the hole. He's just not a breakaway guy. But I think his role will be expanded."
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
JJ owners just took a big "gulp""very very" good receiver should scare the heck out of folks - a guy who blocks better than the primary and who the coach feels is a very very good receiver will see himself on the field a LOT in third and long sitches (esp. since that is TO/Jason Witten territory).
JJ's opps are going to take a big hit this year - he may drop down to the perceived TBell level with MBIII playing the Ron Dayne/Mike Anderson role.
Last edited by a moderator:
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Another thing I forget to mention about JJ. When he had his hot streak at the end of 2004, IMO, much of it was out of necessity not by choice.
The other RB options were . . .
- An ineffective Eddie George
- A banged up Richie Anderson
- Rashard Lee
In terms of other offensive weapons, Terry Glenn was hurt. Antonio Bryant had just been traded, and newcomer Quincy Morgan did not know the system and struggled. The only other legit offensive threats were Witten and Keyshawn.
Add it all up, and Jones got much more of a workload than would normally be expected. And IMO he won't see that workload again given that there are healthy and talented WR, TE, and supporting RB.
The other RB options were . . .
- An ineffective Eddie George
- A banged up Richie Anderson
- Rashard Lee
In terms of other offensive weapons, Terry Glenn was hurt. Antonio Bryant had just been traded, and newcomer Quincy Morgan did not know the system and struggled. The only other legit offensive threats were Witten and Keyshawn.
Add it all up, and Jones got much more of a workload than would normally be expected. And IMO he won't see that workload again given that there are healthy and talented WR, TE, and supporting RB.
