Kevin Jones To Be The Man In DET? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

Hey Guys,

Pasting my post here as it's a new topic.

News: The Detroit News reports Kevin Jones will remain on the field in all situations next season. Offensive coordinator Mike Martz wants Jones to play on the goal line and third downs as well. "He has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

Link please. I'd like to see the context of that remark.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/492975

That's why you shouldn't trust CBSSportsline. The comment was taken completely out of context.Here's the article:

LINK

and here's the context:

That last line is interesting because it couldn't be more philosophically different than that of former head coach Steve Mariucci, who liked to platoon and rotate players. While Martz will constantly change personnel groups, he doesn't like the personnel in each of those groups to change.

Under Mariucci, for instance, running back Kevin Jones was pulled during games and replaced with "speciality" players, depending on the situation: third down, blitz protections, two-minute drill, etc.

"We won't do that with him, so he has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

So, being in the No. 1 position on the depth chart is extremely important. And that's why it was interesting to watch Thursday's morning practice, which featured a combination of 60 plays of both seven-on-seven and team drills.

Please note the bolded portion: Being in the No. 1 position is extremely important because the No. 1 will be expected to play in all situations. Jones as a RB being shuttled in & out per situations was used as an example.

Some other interesting info from the article:

Arlen Harris, a free agent who played for three years under Martz with the St. Louis Rams, is the backup running back to Jones, especially when the team goes to spread formations.

Artose Pinner, who was Jones' backup last year, appears to have fallen to No. 4 on the depth chart, behind rookie Brian Calhoun, a third-round draft pick. During one point in the drills, Pinner was in once during a stretch of 19 plays.

Fullback Cory Schlesinger's role in the offense will be greatly diminished -- he'll be giving up time to Harris and Shawn Bryson -- but he'll still be a factor in the offense because of the need for his blocking ability in certain situations.

Hi Pony Boy,I'm not sure what you're saying here. What about the article makes you think the blurb was out of context?

Last year, Jones was shuttled in and out for "specialty" situations. Sounds like this year, Martz wants him to be the man and stay in the game including the all important goal line carries.

You don't think that's what he's saying?

J

 

[zadok]

As a Jones dynasty owner, it just brought a tear to my eye. The good kind.

 

[Joe Bryant]

News: The Detroit News reports Kevin Jones will remain on the field in all situations next season. Offensive coordinator Mike Martz wants Jones to play on the goal line and third downs as well. "He has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

Link please. I'd like to see the context of that remark.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/492975

That's why you shouldn't trust CBSSportsline. The comment was taken completely out of context.Here's the article:

LINK

and here's the context:

That last line is interesting because it couldn't be more philosophically different than that of former head coach Steve Mariucci, who liked to platoon and rotate players. While Martz will constantly change personnel groups, he doesn't like the personnel in each of those groups to change.

Under Mariucci, for instance, running back Kevin Jones was pulled during games and replaced with "speciality" players, depending on the situation: third down, blitz protections, two-minute drill, etc.

"We won't do that with him, so he has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

So, being in the No. 1 position on the depth chart is extremely important. And that's why it was interesting to watch Thursday's morning practice, which featured a combination of 60 plays of both seven-on-seven and team drills.

Please note the bolded portion: Being in the No. 1 position is extremely important because the No. 1 will be expected to play in all situations. Jones as a RB being shuttled in & out per situations was used as an example.

Some other interesting info from the article:

Arlen Harris, a free agent who played for three years under Martz with the St. Louis Rams, is the backup running back to Jones, especially when the team goes to spread formations.

Artose Pinner, who was Jones' backup last year, appears to have fallen to No. 4 on the depth chart, behind rookie Brian Calhoun, a third-round draft pick. During one point in the drills, Pinner was in once during a stretch of 19 plays.

Fullback Cory Schlesinger's role in the offense will be greatly diminished -- he'll be giving up time to Harris and Shawn Bryson -- but he'll still be a factor in the offense because of the need for his blocking ability in certain situations.

Hi Pony Boy,I'm not sure what you're saying here. What about the article makes you think the blurb was out of context?

Last year, Jones was shuttled in and out for "specialty" situations. Sounds like this year, Martz wants him to be the man and stay in the game including the all important goal line carries.

You don't think that's what he's saying?

J

No, and I'd use the "for instance" being used to come to that conclusion. I don't see this as an iron-clad endorsement of Jones as the starting RB who will be a do-everything RB for DET, but I do see this as saying that whomever is the #1 RB for DET will be expected to be much more diverse than what was expected under Mariucci and will play in a greater variety of siuations than in the past(sp?). Right now Jones is that guy because he's #1 on the depth chart. Whether he remains #1 as the preseason & as the season starts remains to be seen.

I also am very high on Calhoun & feel that he has has the diverse skill set & ability to carry a large load that DET in the Martz O is looking for in a RB. It should not be overlooked that Jones is a RB drafted by the regime that no longer is in power in DET, and Calhoun was drafted on the first day by the new regime. While some seem to think of Calhoun as a 3rd down CoP RB, there are others that consider him capable of being a very solid starter & featured RB in the NFL, and his body of work last year supports that.

That Arlen Hartris is currently running as the #2 RB, and that Calhoun has already passed Bryson & Pinner on the depth chart certainly shows that the new coaching staff likes their own guys more than the incumbant RBs on the DET roster and will give them preference.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Hi PB,

So when Martz is talking and says, "We won't do that with him, so he has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

You think "him" doesnt' mean Jones?

J

 

[EBF]

It can't be any worse than last year. Mariucci handled KJ horribly. He rarely allowed him to get any momentum going and often pulled him for no apparent reason at all.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Just to clear this up for everyone:

RB pecking order: KJones, A.Harris, Calhoun, Pinner

FB pecking order: Bryson, Corey S.

 

[P Boy]

Hi PB,

So when Martz is talking and says, "We won't do that with him, so he has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

You think "him" doesnt' mean Jones?

J

As of today, I think "him" does mean Jones, since Jones currently occupies the #1 RB spot in DET. I do not know if Jones will remain the #1 RB in DET. I do know that the new coaching staff is revamping & reorganizing the depth charts & personnel dramatically in DET, so it wouldn't surpise me one bit if Jones were to be replaced by Calhoun, since Calhoun is the first RB drafted by the new powers-that-be.I think as long as Jones shows he's a superior talent to Calhoun, Jones will be the guy - and he should have an expanded role. I also think that if Calhoun shows himself as capable as Jones - not passes him, but ties him - Calhoun would take over that spot. That's only something that can play out as the preseason progresses. And for all we know, Calhoun may be a bust.

I do admit that I'm biased when it comes to Calhoun.

 

[yellowdog]

News: The Detroit News reports Kevin Jones will remain on the field in all situations next season. Offensive coordinator Mike Martz wants Jones to play on the goal line and third downs as well. "He has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

Link please. I'd like to see the context of that remark.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/492975

That's why you shouldn't trust CBSSportsline. The comment was taken completely out of context.Here's the article:

LINK

and here's the context:

That last line is interesting because it couldn't be more philosophically different than that of former head coach Steve Mariucci, who liked to platoon and rotate players. While Martz will constantly change personnel groups, he doesn't like the personnel in each of those groups to change.

Under Mariucci, for instance, running back Kevin Jones was pulled during games and replaced with "speciality" players, depending on the situation: third down, blitz protections, two-minute drill, etc.

"We won't do that with him, so he has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

So, being in the No. 1 position on the depth chart is extremely important. And that's why it was interesting to watch Thursday's morning practice, which featured a combination of 60 plays of both seven-on-seven and team drills.

Please note the bolded portion: Being in the No. 1 position is extremely important because the No. 1 will be expected to play in all situations. Jones as a RB being shuttled in & out per situations was used as an example.

Some other interesting info from the article:

Arlen Harris, a free agent who played for three years under Martz with the St. Louis Rams, is the backup running back to Jones, especially when the team goes to spread formations.

Artose Pinner, who was Jones' backup last year, appears to have fallen to No. 4 on the depth chart, behind rookie Brian Calhoun, a third-round draft pick. During one point in the drills, Pinner was in once during a stretch of 19 plays.

Fullback Cory Schlesinger's role in the offense will be greatly diminished -- he'll be giving up time to Harris and Shawn Bryson -- but he'll still be a factor in the offense because of the need for his blocking ability in certain situations.

Hi Pony Boy,I'm not sure what you're saying here. What about the article makes you think the blurb was out of context?

Last year, Jones was shuttled in and out for "specialty" situations. Sounds like this year, Martz wants him to be the man and stay in the game including the all important goal line carries.

You don't think that's what he's saying?

J

No, and I'd use the "for instance" being used to come to that conclusion.  I don't see this as an iron-clad endorsement of Jones as the starting RB who will be a do-everything RB for DET, but I do see this as saying that whomever is the #1 RB for DET will be expected to be much more diverse than what was expected under Mariucci and will play in a greater variety of siuations than in the past(sp?).  Right now Jones is that guy because he's #1 on the depth chart.  Whether he remains #1 as the preseason & as the season starts remains to be seen.

I also am very high on Calhoun & feel that he has has the diverse skill set & ability to carry a large load that DET in the Martz O is looking for in a RB.  It should not be overlooked that Jones is a RB drafted by the regime that no longer is in power in DET, and Calhoun was drafted on the first day by the new regime.  While some seem to think of Calhoun as a 3rd down CoP RB, there are others that consider him capable of being a very solid starter & featured RB in the NFL, and his body of work last year supports that.

That Arlen Hartris is currently running as the #2 RB, and that Calhoun has already passed Bryson & Pinner on the depth chart certainly shows that the new coaching staff likes their own guys more than the incumbant RBs on the DET roster and will give them preference.

I think all that is saying is that the new coaching staff drafted Calhoun to be third on the depth chart, and that Bryson and Pinner may be fighting for a roster spot. Pinner.

 

[wannabee]

At first, I believed that Harris had a chance, too, to get playing time if KJones falters or gets hurt. But, then I went and looked up his numbers: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396971

The Rams teams were much easier to gain rushing yardage (due to a better line and better surrounding talent). But, Harris, entering his fourth year has a career ypc of under 3. Yes, the actual ypc is 2.9. That is incredible. Even Trung Canidate did better in 2001 ( http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/CaniTr00.htm ) did better. Even Lamar Gordon did better ( http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302034 ).

So, I can only envision it as KJones RB1, and Calhoun RB2. Harris might get the nod as RB2 for a couple of games until Calhoun proves himself a little more. But, for the entire season, I cannot see Harris getting much game time.

 

[GreatWhite]

I just don't trust Martz. I traded KJ for 1.3 & 1.7 in a dynasty.

 

[Rev]

I just don't trust Martz.  I traded KJ for 1.3 & 1.7 in a dynasty.

You're selling low, my good man, selling low. The rest of us will hang on and enjoy the ride on the KJ bandwagon!!!

 

[cscmtp]

i would take 1.3 and 1.7 for KJ all day long!!! No brainer IMO!

 

[Rev]

i would take 1.3 and 1.7 for KJ all day long!!! No brainer IMO!

Would you take them for Rudi Johnson? If KJ has the kind of year Martz is planning for him, KJ will be at or above Rudi's value, especially in PPR leagues. IMO, that makes KJ a sell low right now. I'm hanging on.

 

[CYUNVme]

You guys are still falling for this?

 

[softball]

Hi PB,

So when Martz is talking and says, "We won't do that with him, so he has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

You think "him" doesnt' mean Jones?

J

As of today, I think "him" does mean Jones, since Jones currently occupies the #1 RB spot in DET. I do not know if Jones will remain the #1 RB in DET. I do know that the new coaching staff is revamping & reorganizing the depth charts & personnel dramatically in DET, so it wouldn't surpise me one bit if Jones were to be replaced by Calhoun, since Calhoun is the first RB drafted by the new powers-that-be.I think as long as Jones shows he's a superior talent to Calhoun, Jones will be the guy - and he should have an expanded role. I also think that if Calhoun shows himself as capable as Jones - not passes him, but ties him - Calhoun would take over that spot. That's only something that can play out as the preseason progresses. And for all we know, Calhoun may be a bust.

I do admit that I'm biased when it comes to Calhoun.

Pony Boy, Your Bias is showing!The problem I have with your statement is that the same Drafting Crew was in place. Rod Marinelli accepted who Matt Millen took, and Millen took Calhoun.

I think KJ is a value in early Rd 3, where I've seen him go in 1 Money Draft, and not a bad #2 RB at the end of Rd 2, where he went in two other money drafts.

 

[Footballhead]

I don't see Det having the line that the Rams or Chiefs has to transform Kevin Jones from a Rb #25-30 to a top 5 Rb. i think the first year or two is going to be more sort of growing pain for the Coryell ofeense in Det and the Rb of the future has not been aquired/drafted by Det front office yet.

 

[Perry Ice]

I don't expect KJ to explode as a runner, so I'm not too concerned with the O-Line.

If Martz can use KJ as a consistent receiving option and bump him to 55-60 reception I believe that is where his true value is.

In a traditional league KJ is a marginal pick... in a PPR I think KJ can have real value if Martz can get him the ball all a receiver.

A season a marginal season of 1,000 yards 7 touchdowns, 55 recptions 350 yards 2td would be a nice season of 244 points in a PPR league.

The same season would only be worth 189 points in a traditional league....

So I think the value of KJ all depends on the scoring system.

 

[P Boy]

Pony Boy, Your Bias is showing!

Unquestionably.

 

[faulkfan]

I'm deciding between KJ and D. Davis as a keeper for RB and I go back and forth daily as to who is the better choice.

My take on KJ is that he has the necessary skills to do well, but I have no illusions that he'll ever be the receiver that Faulk was. I just can't imagine a guy who is an average receiver at best suddenly lining up in the flanker position like Faulk used to and running routes against the linebackers.

However, I do think that if he can show himself to be more durable that he'll take the starting job and never give it up and do reasonably well.

 

[Family Matters]

Hi PB,

So when Martz is talking and says, "We won't do that with him, so he has to do it all, and he's accepted that very well," Martz said. "He's a well-rounded back. There's a lot for him to learn."

You think "him" doesnt' mean Jones?

J

As of today, I think "him" does mean Jones, since Jones currently occupies the #1 RB spot in DET. I do not know if Jones will remain the #1 RB in DET. I do know that the new coaching staff is revamping & reorganizing the depth charts & personnel dramatically in DET, so it wouldn't surpise me one bit if Jones were to be replaced by Calhoun, since Calhoun is the first RB drafted by the new powers-that-be.I think as long as Jones shows he's a superior talent to Calhoun, Jones will be the guy - and he should have an expanded role. I also think that if Calhoun shows himself as capable as Jones - not passes him, but ties him - Calhoun would take over that spot. That's only something that can play out as the preseason progresses. And for all we know, Calhoun may be a bust.

I do admit that I'm biased when it comes to Calhoun.

PB-I get it when you think that the new staff wants their guy. We see it all the time. However, I do not see Calhoun as being anywhere near what Jones is. I can see him as a 3rd down back but not as good or as talented as Jones ovrall.It is well known and documented that Jones was not used correctly before. It is now well known that Martz intends to do so. So until Jones is no longer the man then you have to see him that way.

Can Calhoun be the man? Possibly. But you would have to argur against your own "little man" arguement you've used before and explain how Clahoun can be the exception. Clearly his size is an issue to being an every down back. Size will be an issue in pass blocking that he has little experience in as WI rarely passed the rocl much. A 3rd round pick doesn't leave a team feeling pressured to make sure he's a starter either.

Colorado wanted to move him to WR. Wi is a running back's dream job. They are committed to running the ball. In fact most of their RB's have looked good when given the rock. Even his back up had a better YPC than he did. But yet he was still effective so that's all that matters.

What is worth noting is that his recieving numbers were outstanding. 53 catches ranked 2nd on the team! So again I think the value in him might be as a 3rd down back. Keep in mind that 10 of his 22 TD's came against 2 teams, Bowling Green and Illinois, teams that often gave up 500 or more yards to their opponets.

A nice 3rd down back and a guy who is threat in the open field but an every down back? I doubt it. There is no evidence to suggest that would be the case. More evidence suggests that against good defenses he really struggled:

PSU=20-38=1.9

Purdue=20-62=3.1

Iowa=15-18=1.2

And some other not so great D's but still managed to shut him down:

Temple=11-42=3.8

Indiana=26-101=3.9

That's a lot of teams that shut him down and made him a non-factor in the game. That's not exactly the type of RB that will excell in the NFL.

 

[Franknbeans]

I'm deciding between KJ and D. Davis as a keeper for RB and I go back and forth daily as to who is the better choice.

My take on KJ is that he has the necessary skills to do well, but I have no illusions that he'll ever be the receiver that Faulk was. I just can't imagine a guy who is an average receiver at best suddenly lining up in the flanker position like Faulk used to and running routes against the linebackers.

However, I do think that if he can show himself to be more durable that he'll take the starting job and never give it up and do reasonably well.

Nice story here on his dedication this off-season

 

[P Boy]

PB-I get it when you think that the new staff wants their guy. We see it all the time. However, I do not see Calhoun as being anywhere near what Jones is. I can see him as a 3rd down back but not as good or as talented as Jones ovrall.

It is well known and documented that Jones was not used correctly before. It is now well known that Martz intends to do so. So until Jones is no longer the man then you have to see him that way.

Can Calhoun be the man? Possibly. But you would have to argur against your own "little man" arguement you've used before and explain how Clahoun can be the exception. Clearly his size is an issue to being an every down back. Size will be an issue in pass blocking that he has little experience in as WI rarely passed the rocl much. A 3rd round pick doesn't leave a team feeling pressured to make sure he's a starter either.

Colorado wanted to move him to WR. Wi is a running back's dream job. They are committed to running the ball. In fact most of their RB's have looked good when given the rock. Even his back up had a better YPC than he did. But yet he was still effective so that's all that matters.

What is worth noting is that his recieving numbers were outstanding. 53 catches ranked 2nd on the team! So again I think the value in him might be as a 3rd down back. Keep in mind that 10 of his 22 TD's came against 2 teams, Bowling Green and Illinois, teams that often gave up 500 or more yards to their opponets.

A nice 3rd down back and a guy who is threat in the open field but an every down back? I doubt it. There is no evidence to suggest that would be the case. More evidence suggests that against good defenses he really struggled:

PSU=20-38=1.9

Purdue=20-62=3.1

Iowa=15-18=1.2

And some other not so great D's but still managed to shut him down:

Temple=11-42=3.8

Indiana=26-101=3.9

That's a lot of teams that shut him down and made him a non-factor in the game. That's not exactly the type of RB that will excell in the NFL.

That's a good, well thought out response. I agree with some of it, though I would say that the teams Calhoun struggled against were teams that stacked the line severely and dared Stocco to beat them. There were games where other teams tried that also, but Stocco forced them to back off - but he was some damn hot & cold last year you couldn't tell when the WIS passing game was going to go into the toilet completely or when Williams & company were going to get the ball thrown close enough to them where they could tear opposing Ds up.

As far as the "little man" theory, I am a strong proponent of it, but it also has a lot to do with height/weight ratio. When a guy like Bush is 5'-11" & 201lbs, it makes me take notice because he's very light for his height. But when Calhoun is 5'-9" & 201 lbs, he's got better proportions - and is in or near the ideal height/weight ratio range for NFL RBs.

I do agree he'll have to learn blocking skills, because his weight will be an issue with picking up guys coming off the edge. However, his hands really help him in that matter since he can brush & flare, giving a QB an extra half second & then a safety valve - which is all a good NFL QB needs to keep from getting creamed, especially given the "pansy" rules the NFL has instituted for QBs.

As far as being able to run between the tackles & in trash, he did that very effectively at WIS. He has a curious habit of disappearing into the trash on the line for a split second & then squirting out into the second level at almost full speed. His size is a detriment here, but he's so strong that it takes a direct hit to knock him off his feet - he won't go down with just a DT's arm being thrown out in front of him. That's my single biggest problem with the small guys - a lot of them will take secondary contact & get wiped out because they're too weak to run through an arm - granted that arm may be able to bench 400 lbs. A few of the smaller guys are strong enough to not have that affect them - Barber & Faulk come immediately to mind - they carry enough lower body strength despite their smaller frame. Calhoun looks to be one of those guys. They'll never be pile movers - but they can sneak into the smallest of seams and fight the trash to turn a loss or no gain into a 3 yds run.

And please don't remind me of Barnett's stupidity of wanting to move him to WR. While that is a testiment to both his speed & his hands, it is also a complete testiment to how stupid Barnett is. To lose a RB of Calhoun's caliber to WIS was plain stupid, and Alvarez has called Calhoun easily the best RB he's ever coached - and that includes Heisman winner & NCAA Div 1 career rushing leader Ron Dayne & Michael Bennett. Calhoun had some great runs at CU, but Barnett never considered him as a featured RB. He went to WIS, and Alvarez had him getting well over 400 touches in 13 games. The guy is a workhorse also.

I wouldn't be so sure about Jones being better than Calhoun. If you had seen what Calhoun did to Auburn's vaunted D in the bowl game last year, you'd know how dangerous of a runner he is. And he seems to fit Martz' O very, very well - almost the ideal type of RB for it.

Again, we'll have to see. It ought to be very interesting.

 

[packersfan]

Until Jones learns how to catch the ball and (more importantly) pass block, he's in serious danger of losing third-down snaps to Bryson and eventually Calhoun in my opinion. There's no question in my mind Mooch used Jones poorly last season but Jones also has been a very suspect receiver (whereas Bryson is a proven vet in that regard and Calhoun has, in my opinion, major potential in that area) and has been absolutely horrendous at pass blocking and blitz awareness.

So as they say about the best laid plans ... until we see Jones make some real improvements in those two areas I don't care what Martz or anyone else says, it's going to be very difficult for the Lions to play him on third downs when they have one proven option (Bryson) who can handle that role and a rookie (Calhoun) with strong upside in that area especially.

 

[Family Matters]

PB-I get it when you think that the new staff wants their guy. We see it all the time. However, I do not see Calhoun as being anywhere near what Jones is. I can see him as a 3rd down back but not as good or as talented as Jones ovrall.

It is well known and documented that Jones was not used correctly before. It is now well known that Martz intends to do so. So until Jones is no longer the man then you have to see him that way.

Can Calhoun be the man? Possibly. But you would have to argur against your own "little man" arguement you've used before and explain how Clahoun can be the exception. Clearly his size is an issue to being an every down back. Size will be an issue in pass blocking that he has little experience in as WI rarely passed the rocl much. A 3rd round pick doesn't leave a team feeling pressured to make sure he's a starter either.

Colorado wanted to move him to WR. Wi is a running back's dream job. They are committed to running the ball. In fact most of their RB's have looked good when given the rock. Even his back up had a better YPC than he did. But yet he was still effective so that's all that matters.

What is worth noting is that his recieving numbers were outstanding. 53 catches ranked 2nd on the team! So again I think the value in him might be as a 3rd down back. Keep in mind that 10 of his 22 TD's came against 2 teams, Bowling Green and Illinois, teams that often gave up 500 or more yards to their opponets.

A nice 3rd down back and a guy who is threat in the open field but an every down back? I doubt it. There is no evidence to suggest that would be the case. More evidence suggests that against good defenses he really struggled:

PSU=20-38=1.9

Purdue=20-62=3.1

Iowa=15-18=1.2

And some other not so great D's but still managed to shut him down:

Temple=11-42=3.8

Indiana=26-101=3.9

That's a lot of teams that shut him down and made him a non-factor in the game. That's not exactly the type of RB that will excell in the NFL.

That's a good, well thought out response. I agree with some of it, though I would say that the teams Calhoun struggled against were teams that stacked the line severely and dared Stocco to beat them. There were games where other teams tried that also, but Stocco forced them to back off - but he was some damn hot & cold last year you couldn't tell when the WIS passing game was going to go into the toilet completely or when Williams & company were going to get the ball thrown close enough to them where they could tear opposing Ds up.

As far as the "little man" theory, I am a strong proponent of it, but it also has a lot to do with height/weight ratio. When a guy like Bush is 5'-11" & 201lbs, it makes me take notice because he's very light for his height. But when Calhoun is 5'-9" & 201 lbs, he's got better proportions - and is in or near the ideal height/weight ratio range for NFL RBs.

I do agree he'll have to learn blocking skills, because his weight will be an issue with picking up guys coming off the edge. However, his hands really help him in that matter since he can brush & flare, giving a QB an extra half second & then a safety valve - which is all a good NFL QB needs to keep from getting creamed, especially given the "pansy" rules the NFL has instituted for QBs.

As far as being able to run between the tackles & in trash, he did that very effectively at WIS. He has a curious habit of disappearing into the trash on the line for a split second & then squirting out into the second level at almost full speed. His size is a detriment here, but he's so strong that it takes a direct hit to knock him off his feet - he won't go down with just a DT's arm being thrown out in front of him. That's my single biggest problem with the small guys - a lot of them will take secondary contact & get wiped out because they're too weak to run through an arm - granted that arm may be able to bench 400 lbs. A few of the smaller guys are strong enough to not have that affect them - Barber & Faulk come immediately to mind - they carry enough lower body strength despite their smaller frame. Calhoun looks to be one of those guys. They'll never be pile movers - but they can sneak into the smallest of seams and fight the trash to turn a loss or no gain into a 3 yds run.

And please don't remind me of Barnett's stupidity of wanting to move him to WR. While that is a testiment to both his speed & his hands, it is also a complete testiment to how stupid Barnett is. To lose a RB of Calhoun's caliber to WIS was plain stupid, and Alvarez has called Calhoun easily the best RB he's ever coached - and that includes Heisman winner & NCAA Div 1 career rushing leader Ron Dayne & Michael Bennett. Calhoun had some great runs at CU, but Barnett never considered him as a featured RB. He went to WIS, and Alvarez had him getting well over 400 touches in 13 games. The guy is a workhorse also.

I wouldn't be so sure about Jones being better than Calhoun. If you had seen what Calhoun did to Auburn's vaunted D in the bowl game last year, you'd know how dangerous of a runner he is. And he seems to fit Martz' O very, very well - almost the ideal type of RB for it.

Again, we'll have to see. It ought to be very interesting.

Well I definately respect your position on this. Looks like his weight went up a little from what I had found, like 194. Has he ver played at 200? I ask because somtimes guys slow down with the added weight or they aren't comfortable.Not sure I agree that he fits Martz system. In fact Martz prefers bigger backs as demonstrated by his past draft picks. The only back I could find that was drafted under 200 was Candidate and we all know how that turned out. Maybe there were others but none panned out. And Faulk bulked up over 215 for most of his playing days and was a rpoved between the tackle runner at this level.

I guess any back can succeed if given the right curcumstances. I think Wisconsin was the perfect system for Calhoun to thrive in. Few have not ran well behind that line. Most look great. And we've seen history teach us that backs from Wisconsin do not fare at the pro level. Being smaller certainly isn't going to help break that trend.

 

[TME]

Until Jones learns how to catch the ball and (more importantly) pass block, he's in serious danger of losing third-down snaps to Bryson and eventually Calhoun in my opinion. There's no question in my mind Mooch used Jones poorly last season but Jones also has been a very suspect receiver (whereas Bryson is a proven vet in that regard and Calhoun has, in my opinion, major potential in that area) and has been absolutely horrendous at pass blocking and blitz awareness.

So as they say about the best laid plans ... until we see Jones make some real improvements in those two areas I don't care what Martz or anyone else says, it's going to be very difficult for the Lions to play him on third downs when they have one proven option (Bryson) who can handle that role and a rookie (Calhoun) with strong upside in that area especially.

Those are certainly popular arguments, but I do not know that we really know that he is a "very suspect receiver" or "absolutely horrendous at pass blocking and blitz awareness" unless you have practice field knowledge. Mooch was a very situational guy...too situational. KJ never got gametime reps on 3rd down or 2 minute drill, etc. so we never really saw his pass blocking skills or receiving skills in full display. He was generally just not in for those situations. Does that mean he is incompetent at the skills, or Mooch liked his situational guys or Bryson was the better receiver and blocker? I think it was a combination of the latter two. Yes, Bryson is a very good receiving back and an excellent blocker, but though KJ may not be at that high of a skill set for those taks (which seems to be very high in Bryson's repuatation), I think he can do the job. And most importantly, what that does for Detroit is allow one of their most dangerous players with the ball in his hands, the opportunity to get more touches and be less predictable in terms of when and how he will get the ball.Again, I just think that we don't know, and will not know until we see if Martz does indeed keep him on the field for those situations come gametime. Or, if someone has any practice field knowledge to see how he's handling those situations and if it's acceptable to Martz. Otherwise, we are really just going with the, he never did it before, so he must be terrible at it, which just does not work considering the former coach.

 

[packersfan]

Until Jones learns how to catch the ball and (more importantly) pass block, he's in serious danger of losing third-down snaps to Bryson and eventually Calhoun in my opinion. There's no question in my mind Mooch used Jones poorly last season but Jones also has been a very suspect receiver (whereas Bryson is a proven vet in that regard and Calhoun has, in my opinion, major potential in that area) and has been absolutely horrendous at pass blocking and blitz awareness.

So as they say about the best laid plans ... until we see Jones make some real improvements in those two areas I don't care what Martz or anyone else says, it's going to be very difficult for the Lions to play him on third downs when they have one proven option (Bryson) who can handle that role and a rookie (Calhoun) with strong upside in that area especially.

Those are certainly popular arguments, but I do not know that we really know that he is a "very suspect receiver" or "absolutely horrendous at pass blocking and blitz awareness" unless you have practice field knowledge.

I know what I saw in games and my assessments are based on watching him play. There was at least one game where Jones got benched because he got his QB killed while missing a blitz pickup. There was another where he got hurt because he made a poor attempt at picking up a blitz and got blasted. In my opinion, he needs to show significant improvement in that area especially.

Mooch was a very situational guy...too situational. KJ never got gametime reps on 3rd down or 2 minute drill, etc. so we never really saw his pass blocking skills or receiving skills in full display. He was generally just not in for those situations. Does that mean he is incompetent at the skills, or Mooch liked his situational guys or Bryson was the better receiver and blocker? I think it was a combination of the latter two. Yes, Bryson is a very good receiving back and an excellent blocker, but though KJ may not be at that high of a skill set for those taks (which seems to be very high in Bryson's repuatation), I think he can do the job. And most importantly, what that does for Detroit is allow one of their most dangerous players with the ball in his hands, the opportunity to get more touches and be less predictable in terms of when and how he will get the ball.

I don't dispute Jones' talent and I don't dispute the fact Mooch did a poor job of utilizing him last season. We're in agreement there. Jones is clearly the most talented RB on the Detroit roster, but that doesn't mean he's the most complete RB on the roster. Not yet anyway.