Khiry Robinson (1 Viewer)

[mr roboto]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

Situations can change. I got Khiry off the WW (dropped Ryan Williams beginning if this year). Sproles in ppr had a couple very nice seasons. I agree that it's unlikely any of the NO backs will be 1,000 yd 10 TD guys, but you never know, and the price is cheap (due in part to the perspective you've shared - that NO is a RB wasteland).

 

[Flying Elvis]

I agree with the sentiment that Payton is a RB killer for FF purposes. As an owner with Ingram and Robinson, I'm just hoping one of them is named starter and/or starts hot and gains trade value. I have zero trust in the system in place there, regardless of how much the brass touts the ball control offense with more RB work. I don't believe for a second that it will change.

 

[humpback]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

I think it comes down to the personnel. If they have 4 good RBs with different strengths, then they'll probably continue to rotate. I don't think they're going to automatically play their #3 and #4 RBs much just for fun.

I also don't think people are hoping for the next big thing, more just a decent ff RB option.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

Now is a pretty bad to to buy Khiry Robinson -- if you want him I'd wait until they draft someone / sign a FA (which they will, assuming Sproles and Thomas are indeed gone). Robinson's price might go down in that case.

The value in NO at RB will mainly come from catching passes IMO -- so that's what needs to be figured out -- not which guy will lead the team with all of < 200 carries. I personally wouldn't be shocked to see Sproles and / or Thomas back on more cap friendly short term deals even if they do get cut.

Robinson could[/] be in line for a bump in usage, but he could also be in line for Ivory's old role or anything else. I wouldn't be lining up to buy given the current storm of hype.

 

[JohnnyU]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

Situations can change. I got Khiry off the WW (dropped Ryan Williams beginning if this year). Sproles in ppr had a couple very nice seasons. I agree that it's unlikely any of the NO backs will be 1,000 yd 10 TD guys, but you never know, and the price is cheap (due in part to the perspective you've shared - that NO is a RB wasteland).

...but we do know how Sean Payton has used his running backs ever since he became a head coach. I don't see that changing anytime soon unless they draft an Adrian Peterson and I would still have my doubts. I don't think K Robinson will change the mind of most people. I still see Ingram as their starter, but it won't make much difference imo.

 

[cstu]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

2006 - Deuce McAllister (RB12)

2007 - Reggie Bush (RB5 until he got hurt week 13)

2008 - Reggie Bush (RB5 until he got hurt week 7)

2008 - Pierre Thomas (RB5 from week 10 to 17)

2009 - Pierre Thomas (RB8 from week 3 to 16)

 

[humpback]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

Situations can change. I got Khiry off the WW (dropped Ryan Williams beginning if this year). Sproles in ppr had a couple very nice seasons. I agree that it's unlikely any of the NO backs will be 1,000 yd 10 TD guys, but you never know, and the price is cheap (due in part to the perspective you've shared - that NO is a RB wasteland).

...but we do know how Sean Payton has used his running backs ever since he became a head coach. I don't see that changing anytime soon unless they draft an Adrian Peterson and I would still have my doubts. I don't think K Robinson will change the mind of most people. I still see Ingram as their starter, but it won't make much difference imo.

Yes, and we also know that most years, they had at least 1 RB who was fantasy relevant.

Sproles and Thomas combined for 200 carries and 148 receptions last year. IF they are both gone, that's a ton of touches that have to go somewhere.

 

[JohnnyU]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

Situations can change. I got Khiry off the WW (dropped Ryan Williams beginning if this year). Sproles in ppr had a couple very nice seasons. I agree that it's unlikely any of the NO backs will be 1,000 yd 10 TD guys, but you never know, and the price is cheap (due in part to the perspective you've shared - that NO is a RB wasteland).

...but we do know how Sean Payton has used his running backs ever since he became a head coach. I don't see that changing anytime soon unless they draft an Adrian Peterson and I would still have my doubts. I don't think K Robinson will change the mind of most people. I still see Ingram as their starter, but it won't make much difference imo.

Yes, and we also know that most years, they had at least 1 RB who was fantasy relevant.

Sproles and Thomas combined for 200 carries and 148 receptions last year. IF they are both gone, that's a ton of touches that have to go somewhere.

Not relevant enough because we all know that even if both Thomas and Sproles are gone, Payton will replace them with 2 more RBs that look just like them

 

[JohnnyU]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

2006 - Deuce McAllister (RB12)

2007 - Reggie Bush (RB5 until he got hurt week 13)

2008 - Reggie Bush (RB5 until he got hurt week 7)

2008 - Pierre Thomas (RB5 from week 10 to 17)

2009 - Pierre Thomas (RB8 from week 3 to 16)

That isn't a large sample size for sure.

 

[cstu]

Not relevant enough because we all know that even if both Thomas and Sproles are gone, Payton will replace them with 2 more RBs that look just like them

This is why I'm tempering my expectations for either RB right now. If they draft Devonta Freeman as I'm think they may then the situation becomes a lot more mucked up.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Maybe the reason the Saints have never produced a pure 1000+ yard RB since McAllister is that they haven't had a pure runner with top tier skills since McAllister. Ingram may very well be that, he has gotten better as oft discussed, but witness the Seahawks playoff game - the coaches turned to Robinson, he got more carries and the TD. Just one game vs a great defense in SEA, but Ingram and Cadet each had a huge, key drop, while Robinson made hay of his one catch. I think Payton believes the Saints offense has gotten too predictable and is ready to retool it. Robinson also has breakaway ability (IMO) that Ingram lacks.

As far as the TP report posted by Faust, those guys are way behind this board in terms of understanding the future of the Saints, they react that's all.

Another thing for those interested to look out for is what's going on with the Saints' line: RT Strief is out (is that permanent? IDK.) and the center De La Puente is on the cuff too, there is talk of bringing Goodwin back from the 9ers and either playing Bryce Harris or Lelito (meh) at RT or getting a tackle in the draft. None of this sounds great to me. The Saints got on a ridiculous streak of finding very good o-linemen late in drafts and now guess what they need to do that again.

A RB with 70+ receptions is Charles and Forte territory, and NO had two such RBs. I don't know where those numbers go but I think they are going to be gradually spread back out to the WRs anyway, which will require a talent upgrade.

 

[Doug B]

Maybe the reason the Saints have never produced a pure 1000+ yard RB since McAllister is that they haven't had a pure runner with top tier skills since McAllister.

Yep.

I think, hypothetically, Sean Payton would like a 300-touch three-down bell cow. Only thing is, though ... to be that back in the Saints offense requires a Thurman Thomas or Marshall Faulk type, which are very hard to come by.

Even if Payton did have a HOF multi-dimensional back like that, he'd be sure to spell the guy often and keep him fresh. Not enough to make the lead guy drop out of the top several backs ranked FF-wise, but probably enough to keep him out of the top few.

 

[humpback]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

Situations can change. I got Khiry off the WW (dropped Ryan Williams beginning if this year). Sproles in ppr had a couple very nice seasons. I agree that it's unlikely any of the NO backs will be 1,000 yd 10 TD guys, but you never know, and the price is cheap (due in part to the perspective you've shared - that NO is a RB wasteland).

...but we do know how Sean Payton has used his running backs ever since he became a head coach. I don't see that changing anytime soon unless they draft an Adrian Peterson and I would still have my doubts. I don't think K Robinson will change the mind of most people. I still see Ingram as their starter, but it won't make much difference imo.

Yes, and we also know that most years, they had at least 1 RB who was fantasy relevant.

Sproles and Thomas combined for 200 carries and 148 receptions last year. IF they are both gone, that's a ton of touches that have to go somewhere.

Not relevant enough because we all know that even if both Thomas and Sproles are gone, Payton will replace them with 2 more RBs that look just like them

Obviously we don't know that, but again, even if they do, most years one of their RBs is fantasy relevant.

 

[JohnnyU]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

Situations can change. I got Khiry off the WW (dropped Ryan Williams beginning if this year). Sproles in ppr had a couple very nice seasons. I agree that it's unlikely any of the NO backs will be 1,000 yd 10 TD guys, but you never know, and the price is cheap (due in part to the perspective you've shared - that NO is a RB wasteland).

...but we do know how Sean Payton has used his running backs ever since he became a head coach. I don't see that changing anytime soon unless they draft an Adrian Peterson and I would still have my doubts. I don't think K Robinson will change the mind of most people. I still see Ingram as their starter, but it won't make much difference imo.

Yes, and we also know that most years, they had at least 1 RB who was fantasy relevant.

Sproles and Thomas combined for 200 carries and 148 receptions last year. IF they are both gone, that's a ton of touches that have to go somewhere.

Not relevant enough because we all know that even if both Thomas and Sproles are gone, Payton will replace them with 2 more RBs that look just like them

Obviously we don't know that, but again, even if they do, most years one of their RBs is fantasy relevant.

Depends on your definition of relevant and most years. From what I've seen, with the exception of a few high reception back years, the Saints don't have a RB that I would start in most leagues.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Someone will be viable, particularly in PPR. How realistic it is to project the guy with 1 catch last year to be the viable one is another question. It could happen for Robinson, but that's not a bet I'd be wiling to make unless he were super cheap, which he's not ATM. Free off of waivers last year? Yep, awesome. Trading a 1st and 2nd for him? Not so much (check the trade thread).

 

[humpback]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

Situations can change. I got Khiry off the WW (dropped Ryan Williams beginning if this year). Sproles in ppr had a couple very nice seasons. I agree that it's unlikely any of the NO backs will be 1,000 yd 10 TD guys, but you never know, and the price is cheap (due in part to the perspective you've shared - that NO is a RB wasteland).

...but we do know how Sean Payton has used his running backs ever since he became a head coach. I don't see that changing anytime soon unless they draft an Adrian Peterson and I would still have my doubts. I don't think K Robinson will change the mind of most people. I still see Ingram as their starter, but it won't make much difference imo.

Yes, and we also know that most years, they had at least 1 RB who was fantasy relevant.

Sproles and Thomas combined for 200 carries and 148 receptions last year. IF they are both gone, that's a ton of touches that have to go somewhere.

Not relevant enough because we all know that even if both Thomas and Sproles are gone, Payton will replace them with 2 more RBs that look just like them

Obviously we don't know that, but again, even if they do, most years one of their RBs is fantasy relevant.

Depends on your definition of relevant and most years. From what I've seen, with the exception of a few high reception back years, the Saints don't have a RB that I would start in most leagues.

Most years is pretty self explanatory, and I'd consider the top 20-30 RBs to be "relevant" in most leagues.

For perspective, Pierre Thomas wasn't very good this season, but he was still top 20 in ppr scoring (and that's with Sproles still on the team).

 

[JohnnyU]

So what's Robinson's value to a current Ingram owner (like me)? Sproles is gone, PT could be next. If PT goes, then between Robinson and Ingram, I have to have a "starter", right?

I don't think either of those guys are gone just yet, and they could bring in a FA or draft a guy later. I would still try to acquire Robinson now for the right price, but it's premature to think he and Ingram are the only options to start.

Won't they just be 2 of 4 RBs that are rotated in and out of the Saints backfield? Really, has everyone gone mad and forgotten this quickly what it is like owning Saints running backs? It's almost as if everyone is trying to have a blind eye to the situation, hoping for the next big thing.

Situations can change. I got Khiry off the WW (dropped Ryan Williams beginning if this year). Sproles in ppr had a couple very nice seasons. I agree that it's unlikely any of the NO backs will be 1,000 yd 10 TD guys, but you never know, and the price is cheap (due in part to the perspective you've shared - that NO is a RB wasteland).

...but we do know how Sean Payton has used his running backs ever since he became a head coach. I don't see that changing anytime soon unless they draft an Adrian Peterson and I would still have my doubts. I don't think K Robinson will change the mind of most people. I still see Ingram as their starter, but it won't make much difference imo.

Yes, and we also know that most years, they had at least 1 RB who was fantasy relevant.

Sproles and Thomas combined for 200 carries and 148 receptions last year. IF they are both gone, that's a ton of touches that have to go somewhere.

Not relevant enough because we all know that even if both Thomas and Sproles are gone, Payton will replace them with 2 more RBs that look just like them

Obviously we don't know that, but again, even if they do, most years one of their RBs is fantasy relevant.

Depends on your definition of relevant and most years. From what I've seen, with the exception of a few high reception back years, the Saints don't have a RB that I would start in most leagues.

Most years is pretty self explanatory, and I'd consider the top 20-30 RBs to be "relevant" in most leagues.

For perspective, Pierre Thomas wasn't very good this season, but he was still top 20 in ppr scoring (and that's with Sproles still on the team).

I just don't see myself starting a Saints RB in any league I'm in (most years ), except for a bye week filler.

 

[cstu]

I just don't see myself starting a Saints RB in any league I'm in (most years ), except for a bye week filler.

I seem to remember you winning a lot of games with Pierre.

 

[JohnnyU]

I just don't see myself starting a Saints RB in any league I'm in (most years ), except for a bye week filler.

I seem to remember you winning a lot of games with Pierre.

I didn't have any other options once Doug Martin went down and had to start a RB of some sort and I guarantee you that Thomas wasn't the reason I won in 2013. Those stud WRs and TEs and Andrew Luck probably had more to do with it.

 

[cstu]

I just don't see myself starting a Saints RB in any league I'm in (most years ), except for a bye week filler.

I seem to remember you winning a lot of games with Pierre.

I didn't have any other options once Doug Martin went down and had to start a RB of some sort and I guarantee you that Thomas wasn't the reason I won in 2013. Those stud WRs and TEs and Andrew Luck probably had more to do with it.

No doubt, but he did work as a fill in. My take on the Saints running game is that someone is going to put up high RB2/low RB1 numbers in PPR.

 

[Eminence]

Not bullish on this guy, don't think he's an exact fit for what NO is doing. Chris Ivory looked great on this team as well. I think he splits carries with Ingram and they draft somebody to replace Sproles.

No way they leave Drew Brees without a dumpoff option.

 

[Shutout]

I guess Moreno has found a spot that can somewhat salvage his value should he leave Denver.

Even if the Saints had Ben Tate or Alfred Morris or some guy like that, I just don't think their team is structured to get a REALLY nice boon out of a RB, ff-wise. I know the stats show that a few years ago they did run a lot more than we probably would guess, but its just not the same when you look at fantasy. Sproles was that very unique fit that could match them. Its hard to imagine somebody else just easing right in.

Even Reggie Bush, who "looked" ideal and has had fantasy relevance away from New Orleans couldn't find that niche with the Saints.

 

[Eminence]

I guess Moreno has found a spot that can somewhat salvage his value should he leave Denver.

Even if the Saints had Ben Tate or Alfred Morris or some guy like that, I just don't think their team is structured to get a REALLY nice boon out of a RB, ff-wise. I know the stats show that a few years ago they did run a lot more than we probably would guess, but its just not the same when you look at fantasy. Sproles was that very unique fit that could match them. Its hard to imagine somebody else just easing right in.

Even Reggie Bush, who "looked" ideal and has had fantasy relevance away from New Orleans couldn't find that niche with the Saints.

I think a guy like Seastrunk could raise hell.

 

[cstu]

I guess Moreno has found a spot that can somewhat salvage his value should he leave Denver.

Even if the Saints had Ben Tate or Alfred Morris or some guy like that, I just don't think their team is structured to get a REALLY nice boon out of a RB, ff-wise. I know the stats show that a few years ago they did run a lot more than we probably would guess, but its just not the same when you look at fantasy. Sproles was that very unique fit that could match them. Its hard to imagine somebody else just easing right in.

Even Reggie Bush, who "looked" ideal and has had fantasy relevance away from New Orleans couldn't find that niche with the Saints.

I think a guy like Seastrunk could raise hell.

9 career catches in college makes me think he has a long way to go as a receiver and pass protector.

 

[Eminence]

I guess Moreno has found a spot that can somewhat salvage his value should he leave Denver.

Even if the Saints had Ben Tate or Alfred Morris or some guy like that, I just don't think their team is structured to get a REALLY nice boon out of a RB, ff-wise. I know the stats show that a few years ago they did run a lot more than we probably would guess, but its just not the same when you look at fantasy. Sproles was that very unique fit that could match them. Its hard to imagine somebody else just easing right in.

Even Reggie Bush, who "looked" ideal and has had fantasy relevance away from New Orleans couldn't find that niche with the Saints.

I think a guy like Seastrunk could raise hell.

9 career catches in college makes me think he has a long way to go as a receiver and pass protector.

He looks pretty natural catching the ball to me.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I guess Moreno has found a spot that can somewhat salvage his value should he leave Denver.

Even if the Saints had Ben Tate or Alfred Morris or some guy like that, I just don't think their team is structured to get a REALLY nice boon out of a RB, ff-wise. I know the stats show that a few years ago they did run a lot more than we probably would guess, but its just not the same when you look at fantasy. Sproles was that very unique fit that could match them. Its hard to imagine somebody else just easing right in.

Even Reggie Bush, who "looked" ideal and has had fantasy relevance away from New Orleans couldn't find that niche with the Saints.

I think a guy like Seastrunk could raise hell.

9 career catches in college makes me think he has a long way to go as a receiver and pass protector.

He looks pretty natural catching the ball to me.

A lot more than just being able to catch the ball goes into being an effective passing down NFL RB. I like Seastrunk quite a bit, but it'll probably take him some time to get up to speed in the passing game IMO.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Pierre Thomas just got extended.

 

[humpback]

Pierre Thomas just got extended.

Yep, there goes that.

 

[False Start]

Rotoworld still is holding out hope for Robinson. The hype for him will be never ending.

Saints signed RB Pierre Thomas to a two-year extension through 2016.
The Saints dangled Thomas in trade talks, but wound up using this extension to lower his cap number instead. Expect a reduced role in 2014 as Khiry Robinson and Mark Ingram ascend. Thomas, 29, finished 2013 with 147 carries for 549 yards (3.7 YPC) and two touchdowns, adding 77 receptions. He'll remain a low-ceiling, late-round flier in re-draft leagues. Robinson offers the most upside.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I really think this is about talent, the ability to run the ball in a big way and I think, and I think the Saints coaching staff thinks, that Khiry has it. In the end if Pierre and Ingram are not getting the job done, whether Khiry is a starter or not he will get the carries. The Saints staff is about changing their look and being unpredictable, and they have run into a wall in the NFCW, so if FF'ers are looking to the past to gauge the future in this specific instance it may be a mistake. As we all know, the Dome is a fast track. One big game and he will be off, then good luck getting him. Maybe I'm wrong and just wishfully hoping, which is a fault of mine, but that's my sense of things.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I really think this is about talent, the ability to run the ball in a big way and I think, and I think the Saints coaching staff thinks, that Khiry has it.

If so, they showed it in a pretty strange way -- they gave all three other RBs on the roster more touches than they gave Robinson last year. Even in Robinson's "breakout" playoff game, he had 14 touches vs Ingram's 10 and Sproles' 8. Ingram was used more heavily in the playoffs overall, and was more effective with his touches in both the regular season and playoffs. They just extended Pierre Thomas. What about that says that Payton & Co. believe that Robinson is anything more than just one piece of a committee?ETA: Not to mention the last seven years of history of massive offense success using a RBBC approach...

 

[Concept Coop]

In the end if Pierre and Ingram are not getting the job done,

Based on what?

 

[Time Kibitzer]

I really think this is about talent, the ability to run the ball in a big way and I think, and I think the Saints coaching staff thinks, that Khiry has it. In the end if Pierre and Ingram are not getting the job done, whether Khiry is a starter or not he will get the carries. The Saints staff is about changing their look and being unpredictable, and they have run into a wall in the NFCW, so if FF'ers are looking to the past to gauge the future in this specific instance it may be a mistake. As we all know, the Dome is a fast track. One big game and he will be off, then good luck getting him. Maybe I'm wrong and just wishfully hoping, which is a fault of mine, but that's my sense of things.

Pierre Thomas is a 29 year old back who averaged just 3.7 YPC last year and finished the season without a single 20 yard carry, I don't think his presence is gonna stop a potential stud from getting his touches if it turns out he's got the goods.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I really think this is about talent, the ability to run the ball in a big way and I think, and I think the Saints coaching staff thinks, that Khiry has it. In the end if Pierre and Ingram are not getting the job done, whether Khiry is a starter or not he will get the carries. The Saints staff is about changing their look and being unpredictable, and they have run into a wall in the NFCW, so if FF'ers are looking to the past to gauge the future in this specific instance it may be a mistake. As we all know, the Dome is a fast track. One big game and he will be off, then good luck getting him. Maybe I'm wrong and just wishfully hoping, which is a fault of mine, but that's my sense of things.

Pierre Thomas is a 29 year old back who averaged just 3.7 YPC last year and finished the season without a single 20 yard carry, I don't think his presence is gonna stop a potential stud from getting his touches if it turns out he's got the goods.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Anyone in NO who gets receptions plus goalline is a potential stud.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Anyone in NO who gets receptions plus goalline is a potential stud.

What does that have to do with a guy who had zero catches and one TD last year?

 

[msudaisy26]

I am wondering if Thomas goes into the role of Sproles but runs the ball a little more. He is 29 and was hurt towards the end of the year. The Saints are smart and maybe they reduce his role some what in an effort to keep him healthy? I am just guessing, congrats to all the dynasty people that cashed in on the Khiry hype for the last week or so.

 

[False Start]

I really think this is about talent, the ability to run the ball in a big way and I think, and I think the Saints coaching staff thinks, that Khiry has it. In the end if Pierre and Ingram are not getting the job done, whether Khiry is a starter or not he will get the carries. The Saints staff is about changing their look and being unpredictable, and they have run into a wall in the NFCW, so if FF'ers are looking to the past to gauge the future in this specific instance it may be a mistake. As we all know, the Dome is a fast track. One big game and he will be off, then good luck getting him. Maybe I'm wrong and just wishfully hoping, which is a fault of mine, but that's my sense of things.

Pierre Thomas is a 29 year old back who averaged just 3.7 YPC last year and finished the season without a single 20 yard carry, I don't think his presence is gonna stop a potential stud from getting his touches if it turns out he's got the goods.

The hype is getting out of hand.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I really think this is about talent, the ability to run the ball in a big way and I think, and I think the Saints coaching staff thinks, that Khiry has it. In the end if Pierre and Ingram are not getting the job done, whether Khiry is a starter or not he will get the carries. The Saints staff is about changing their look and being unpredictable, and they have run into a wall in the NFCW, so if FF'ers are looking to the past to gauge the future in this specific instance it may be a mistake. As we all know, the Dome is a fast track. One big game and he will be off, then good luck getting him. Maybe I'm wrong and just wishfully hoping, which is a fault of mine, but that's my sense of things.

Pierre Thomas is a 29 year old back who averaged just 3.7 YPC last year and finished the season without a single 20 yard carry, I don't think his presence is gonna stop a potential stud from getting his touches if it turns out he's got the goods.

The hype is getting out of hand.

Getting? We passed over into the ludicrous zone long ago...

 

[Concept Coop]

Getting? We passed over into the ludicrous zone long ago...

I wish The Tuna directed some of his hyperbole at me. I might get a few calls.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Anyone in NO who gets receptions plus goalline is a potential stud.

What does that have to do with a guy who had zero catches and one TD last year?

If you wait til after a player gets a 50rec 8TD season to determine someone has stud potential then you'll be too late every time. Was Arian Foster not a potential stud after his 8rec 3TD rookie season? To dominate in dynasty leagues you need to try and predict the future, if you wait for these guys to have a good season before you believe in them you'll miss out on acquiring any of them.

Khiry caught 38 balls in his senior season in college, that's a tonne for a college back, and he looked comfortable doing it as he did in the preseason this year. And at 220lbs he's the Saints biggest back and they even used him as their goal line back in a do-or-die playoff game against Seattle. I think there's definitely enough reason to think he has the potential to be the Saints goalline back who also gets his share of receptions.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Anyone in NO who gets receptions plus goalline is a potential stud.

What does that have to do with a guy who had zero catches and one TD last year?

If you wait til after a player gets a 50rec 8TD season to determine someone has stud potential then you'll be too late every time. Was Arian Foster not a potential stud after his 8rec 3TD rookie season? To dominate in dynasty leagues you need to try and predict the future, if you wait for these guys to have a good season before you believe in them you'll miss out on acquiring any of them.

Khiry caught 38 balls in his senior season in college, that's a tonne for a college back, and he looked comfortable doing it as he did in the preseason this year. And at 220lbs he's the Saints biggest back and they even used him as their goal line back in a do-or-die playoff game against Seattle. I think there's definitely enough reason to think he has the potential to be the Saints goalline back who also gets his share of receptions.

You must have missed the fact that Robinson just really isn't all that good. He wasn't drafted, NO didn't use him much, Ingram outplayed him all year, and they just extended Pierre Thomas. They'll probably also draft or sign another RB in May to help fill the Sproles void.

But go on believing he can be the next Arian Foster.

 

[cstu]

I am wondering if Thomas goes into the role of Sproles but runs the ball a little more. He is 29 and was hurt towards the end of the year. The Saints are smart and maybe they reduce his role some what in an effort to keep him healthy? I am just guessing, congrats to all the dynasty people that cashed in on the Khiry hype for the last week or so.

He's not going to run the ball more if he can't average more than 3.7 YPC. He also has to do better than 6.7 YPR receiving.

We all knew the Saints weren't going to go into the season with 2 RB's and now it's less likely they draft one. As a Khiry owner I'd much rather have them extend Pierre a couple years than draft a RB.

 

[Concept Coop]

I am wondering if Thomas goes into the role of Sproles but runs the ball a little more.

I think you're right. Thomas had 77 receptions last season; very Sproles-like. Could share with Cadet, or a someone they draft, but I expect him to be the main passing back (Or as the Saints call it; the main back).

 

[Breesisdaman]

I haven't read this anywhere but do the Saints dangle Mark Ingram as trade bait now that they have PT and Robinson and Cadet? Ingram would likely garner at least a pick or a player in return. Do the Saints really need to go with that much depth at running back? They have to sign Graham to a long term deal and then next year they have Jordan coming up on his 5th year. Can they afford to extend Mark Ingram anyhow?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

There is a lot of variability in the Saints offense right now.

The Saints had two backs catch 70+ passes last year, not one.

We've seen Ingram run, we know what he can and cannot do. I will give you an example: the @ Carolina game. Ingram had a very nifty breakaway run down the sideline and then cutting back towards the middle; somewhat reminiscent of Ivory actually, but the difference was he was tackled from behind before he got to the goal line. The Saints settled for 3, lost the game, lost the division, lost the bye, had to play on the road twice, etc. Small things matter.

It's not just that, Ingram fumbled vs Seattle, and it cost 7 and that stung. Ingram had a better ypc in that game but Robinson ran better and looked like he had a better shot at breaking away. Just an observation, but I think Khiry brings big play ability that Ingram lacks. IIRC the Saints' longest TD run all year was under 10 yards, maybe 7 yards (someone told me this, so I haven't checked my facts but it sounds right, believable anyway...).

Pierre: he has always had the vision, but he just seems to be going down a little easier, more quickly, a step is all it takes, plus he missed the playoffs again. And the screen did not develop like it used to and the same goes for Sproles for that matter.

Cadet: I don't see him becoming the "new Sproles." He dropped his one big specialized screen play in the SEA game, it was a huge drop, very well set up. Here's one thing he can do: if you saw the Philly game, Sproles has a sideline streak (or sluggo) route and in that game Brees overthrew him though he was wide open. I know for a fact that Cadet practices that play over and over with Brees. I don't think Cadet is anything special on ST and he's not a great runner. I don't see him ever being able to do what Sproles does.

I don't know where that second set of 70 receptions go, it may stay with the RBs (and yes as a matter of fact I think Robinson can catch and run with the ball very well), or it may get spread out to a new set of WRs, remains to be seen, but I do believe things are changing.

 

[Doug B]

I don't know where that second set of 70 receptions go ...

The Saints will likely be passing the ball at more like the 2009 rate, and a lot of those receptions may actually end up turning into rushing attempts.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Anyone in NO who gets receptions plus goalline is a potential stud.

What does that have to do with a guy who had zero catches and one TD last year?

If you wait til after a player gets a 50rec 8TD season to determine someone has stud potential then you'll be too late every time. Was Arian Foster not a potential stud after his 8rec 3TD rookie season? To dominate in dynasty leagues you need to try and predict the future, if you wait for these guys to have a good season before you believe in them you'll miss out on acquiring any of them.

Khiry caught 38 balls in his senior season in college, that's a tonne for a college back, and he looked comfortable doing it as he did in the preseason this year. And at 220lbs he's the Saints biggest back and they even used him as their goal line back in a do-or-die playoff game against Seattle. I think there's definitely enough reason to think he has the potential to be the Saints goalline back who also gets his share of receptions.

You must have missed the fact that Robinson just really isn't all that good. He wasn't drafted, NO didn't use him much, Ingram outplayed him all year, and they just extended Pierre Thomas. They'll probably also draft or sign another RB in May to help fill the Sproles void.

But go on believing he can be the next Arian Foster.

Ahh, the old Shark Pool straw man with erroneous inferences, fantastic. My point was Foster wasn't drafted either and he didn't exactly dominate with his 8rec and 3TD in his rookie season; I was simply pointing out that that combination of facts doesn't doom a player to a fate of mediocrity yet alone irrelevancy.

Ingram had 2 good games all regular season long, he wasn't exactly tearing things up nor were the Saints using him much given his 7 carries per game average. And the fellow undrafted Pierre Thomas was the Saints least effective runner last season by a good margin, safe to say it's pretty unlikely he's gonna lead the Saints carries by such a wide margin again. As SaintsInDome2006 points out, there's a lot of variability and opportunity in the Saints offense right now, I don't think anything is set in stone in that situation.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't know where that second set of 70 receptions go ...

The Saints will likely be passing the ball at more like the 2009 rate, and a lot of those receptions may actually end up turning into rushing attempts.

I can't remember the link but somewhere there's a utilization link and I believe the Saints were something like no. 3 in total plays to RBs. Their FFPs scored were very high as a group too, definitely top-10. And I think we all know the Saints use the passing game to the RB's as an extension of the run game, old axiom but true. So if they can run the ball effectively instead of passing they will.

 

[Concept Coop]

And the fellow undrafted Pierre Thomas was the Saints least effective runner last season by a good margin, safe to say it's pretty unlikely he's gonna lead the Saints carries by such a wide margin again.

Thomas had a solid season last year, despite the raw numbers. The Saints are happy with him and I highly doubt they're putting any stock in his YPC.