Knowhon Moreno Opinions........ (1 Viewer)

[frogpond11]

So I've got Moreno on my team...but him holding out of camp has me concerned. I'd really like to start him the first 2 games of the year because Denver plays Cincinnati and Cleveland...but the longer he stays away from camp...the less chance he'll have of starting right away. What are ya'lls thoughts about this situation? Ya'll think he'll get a deal done soon?

 

[ajopiela]

You hit the nail on the head.

If Moreno reports to camp soon he has the potential to be a top 12 fantasy back....for every day of camp he misses, that becomes less and less likley.

 

[two_dollars]

Last I heard, they we talking, which is good... but "miles apart" on the figures, which is bad..

 

[frogpond11]

agh... not encouraging...

 

[AllVolUT]

Per the NFL.com Broncos message board:

'The dominoes may start falling soon. 1st rounders Darrius Heyward-Bey (7th pick) reportedly has agreed to terms, Josh Freeman (17th pick) reportedly is close to a deal, and Jason Smith (2nd pick) is supposedly close as well.

Some positive things worth pointing out here.

Jason Smith and Knowshon have the same agents (Ben Dogra/Michael Lartigue). All are clients of CAA and it may be an indication that the signings will now start happening. At the very least, once they sign Smith they'll have more time to focus on the other guys.

Also, Josh Freeman (another CAA client) is the 17th pick and Robert Ayers was the 18th pick. Ayers' agents will now have 2 points of reference to work out a deal (i.e. last year's 18th pick and this year's 17th pick).'

 

[ATC1]

Only a handful of guys in the 1st round have signed. Heading into training camp, this along with being a rookie in the NFL is why rookies do not usually find themselves on my roster. someone spending a 3rd or even 4th round pick on Moreno is taking too large of a risk for me.

I think we are going to have to wait for Crabtree to sign first.

 

[benyamen]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.

I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

 

[frogpond11]

Good point...I actually got Moreno for Owen Daniels & Cedric Benson...so I essentially spent about a 6th or 7th round pick on Moreno...and I have MJD, Barber, and Portis starting in front of Moreno for now...so I don't necessarily NEED him to start weeks 1 and 2...it would just be nice to have him available. Portis plays NYG week 1..I'd start Moreno vs Cincy over Portis vs NYG......

 

[Tigerbot Hesh]

Only a handful of guys in the 1st round have signed. Heading into training camp, this along with being a rookie in the NFL is why rookies do not usually find themselves on my roster. someone spending a 3rd or even 4th round pick on Moreno is taking too large of a risk for me. I think we are going to have to wait for Crabtree to sign first.

The Crabtree thing may throw a monkey wrench into a lot of rookies' plans for camp. The last I heard, Crabtree's agent was wanting top-3 money for his client, so they may be headed for a JaMarcus Russell-style holdout.You'd think the players bunched right around Crabtree would wait to see how much money he gets, just to try and max out their own contract offers. I'd love to see Moreno take less money upfront and go ahead and get into camp.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

Please, more info, including your signature.

 

[Morton Muffley]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

Please, more info, including your signature.

sonny-that's unnecessary. read his post again and you'll see that while it is sprinkled with personal tidbits that you may find irrelevant, it also contains a fair amount of useful general opinionjust sayin'

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Fair enough, sorry.

 

[Carver Lee]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

I just don't get the Moreno love. #1 there's no guarantee he'll start.#2 this is almost certainly not the same "plug anyone in and watch 'em run" denver RB factory of the past.#3 I personally see absolutely nothing 'special' about the kid (ala a physical specimen like AP or speed like CJ3) that would make me rank him higher than proven commodities.#4 given the fact the broncos did nothing to sure up an awful defense, and losing their star QB, I see them playing from behind quite a bit this year, which is not conducive to consistent rb production.

 

[sholditch]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

good thing none of their backs have experience in the system...whatever the system in Denver now is. Seems to be the "piss off your best talent" system. McDaniels fired at the end of the 2010 season.

 

[geoff8695]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

Please, more info, including your signature.

sonny-that's unnecessary. read his post again and you'll see that while it is sprinkled with personal tidbits that you may find irrelevant, it also contains a fair amount of useful general opinionjust sayin'

Did you notice the signature?In addition to his entire team's roster, we get this plethora of information:

10-TEAM KEEPER LEAGUE(1ST YEAR)SCORING:7 pts per TD(passing/rushing/receiving)1 pt per 10 yards(rushing/receiving)1 pt per 25 yards(passing)non-PPRdefense(20,15,10,5) based on points allowed..no points for yardage allowedstandard for kickersMY LEAGUE'S STARTERS: 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1FLEX(RB/WR), 1TE, 1D/ST, 1K

Do we really need to know all this outside of an Assistant Coach thread?just sayin'

 

[benyamen]

Do people really come to these forums to judge other people's signatures? Really?

 

[frogpond11]

sig is just to make things easier in the asst coach forums...i don't see the big deal

 

[Tau837]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

I just don't get the Moreno love. #1 there's no guarantee he'll start.#2 this is almost certainly not the same "plug anyone in and watch 'em run" denver RB factory of the past.#3 I personally see absolutely nothing 'special' about the kid (ala a physical specimen like AP or speed like CJ3) that would make me rank him higher than proven commodities.#4 given the fact the broncos did nothing to sure up an awful defense, and losing their star QB, I see them playing from behind quite a bit this year, which is not conducive to consistent rb production.

#1 So who do you think might start instead?#2 Maybe you're not familiar with Denver's offensive line...#4 Why couldn't this result in a lot of targets for Moreno?

 

[shredhead]

#4 given the fact the broncos did nothing to sure up an awful defense

Mike Nolan - Defensive coordinatorBrian Dawkins - Free Safety - free agencyAndra Davis - Inside linebacker - free agencyRonald Fields - Nose Tackle - free agencyAndre' Goodman - Corneback - free agencyNick Greisen - Linebacker - free agencyRenaldo Hill - Free Safety - free agencyJ'Vonne Parker - Defensive Tackle - free agencyDarrell Reid - Defensive Tackle - free agencyRobert Ayers - Linebacker - draftAlphonso Smith - Cornerback - draftDarcel McBath - Cornerback - draftDavid Bruton - Safety - draftI don't think you can say the Broncos did nothing to improve defensively. Here's 13 reasons that say differently. I know some of these guys aren't going to help much, some might not even make the team, but I thought I'd include them anyway just to show that they are trying. Do I think Denver is going to be a top 10 or top 15 defense this year? No, but I think they'll at least be a little better than their dismal performance last year.Do I think they should have gone for more defensive players in the draft? Heck yes, but this Bronco team is more than a 1 year project, so maybe MickeyD was value drafting. Hopefully they can nab more defensive players in next years draft/free agency. I'm sure the work isn't done yet on defense. I'm actually happy with the Broncos first 2 picks, but the draft kinda went downhill for Joshy after that.Orton should be fine as a game manager for the Broncos this year, he's no Cutler, but he won't be asked to do what Cutler does. I think Denver should be above average at WR with Marshall, Royal, Stokely, and Gafney. I think Knowshon, CBuck, Jordan, and Hillis will carry the running game admirably. I think the offense will be a little worse than last year, but I think the defense will be slightly better, hopefully Nolan and company surprise and turn this into a 20ish ranked D this season. I think overall Denver will be a slightly better team than last year, although it won't show in the record. They have a brutal schedule and I'm looking for about 5-11, 6-10 area for them. I just think saying they did nothing to shore up the defense is ludicrous.

sig is just to make things easier in the asst coach forums...i don't see the big deal

I don't think I've ever read anyone's sig. That's probably why I don't have one. I can see how it would be helpful in the AC forum though.

 

[Carver Lee]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

I just don't get the Moreno love. #1 there's no guarantee he'll start.#2 this is almost certainly not the same "plug anyone in and watch 'em run" denver RB factory of the past.#3 I personally see absolutely nothing 'special' about the kid (ala a physical specimen like AP or speed like CJ3) that would make me rank him higher than proven commodities.#4 given the fact the broncos did nothing to sure up an awful defense, and losing their star QB, I see them playing from behind quite a bit this year, which is not conducive to consistent rb production.

#1 So who do you think might start instead?#2 Maybe you're not familiar with Denver's offensive line...#4 Why couldn't this result in a lot of targets for Moreno?

#1 Buckhalter, Jordan?#2 I am familiar with the ZBS of the past. They've lost just about everyone relative to it.#3 It could. Are you ranking him as the #3 RB on the assumption he's going to catch 90 balls?

 

[Carver Lee]

#4 given the fact the broncos did nothing to sure up an awful defense

Mike Nolan - Defensive coordinatorBrian Dawkins - Free Safety - free agencyAndra Davis - Inside linebacker - free agencyRonald Fields - Nose Tackle - free agencyAndre' Goodman - Corneback - free agencyNick Greisen - Linebacker - free agencyRenaldo Hill - Free Safety - free agencyJ'Vonne Parker - Defensive Tackle - free agencyDarrell Reid - Defensive Tackle - free agencyRobert Ayers - Linebacker - draftAlphonso Smith - Cornerback - draftDarcel McBath - Cornerback - draftDavid Bruton - Safety - draftI don't think you can say the Broncos did nothing to improve defensively. Here's 13 reasons that say differently. I know some of these guys aren't going to help much, some might not even make the team, but I thought I'd include them anyway just to show that they are trying. Do I think Denver is going to be a top 10 or top 15 defense this year? No, but I think they'll at least be a little better than their dismal performance last year.Do I think they should have gone for more defensive players in the draft? Heck yes, but this Bronco team is more than a 1 year project, so maybe MickeyD was value drafting. Hopefully they can nab more defensive players in next years draft/free agency. I'm sure the work isn't done yet on defense. I'm actually happy with the Broncos first 2 picks, but the draft kinda went downhill for Joshy after that.Orton should be fine as a game manager for the Broncos this year, he's no Cutler, but he won't be asked to do what Cutler does. I think Denver should be above average at WR with Marshall, Royal, Stokely, and Gafney. I think Knowshon, CBuck, Jordan, and Hillis will carry the running game admirably. I think the offense will be a little worse than last year, but I think the defense will be slightly better, hopefully Nolan and company surprise and turn this into a 20ish ranked D this season. I think overall Denver will be a slightly better team than last year, although it won't show in the record. They have a brutal schedule and I'm looking for about 5-11, 6-10 area for them. I just think saying they did nothing to shore up the defense is ludicrous.

sig is just to make things easier in the asst coach forums...i don't see the big deal

I don't think I've ever read anyone's sig. That's probably why I don't have one. I can see how it would be helpful in the AC forum though.

Ok, so they've done something, but a slightly better defense than they had last year is still an below average defense. Does this make Moreno's prospects significantly better?

 

[shredhead]

#4 given the fact the broncos did nothing to sure up an awful defense

Mike Nolan - Defensive coordinatorBrian Dawkins - Free Safety - free agencyAndra Davis - Inside linebacker - free agencyRonald Fields - Nose Tackle - free agencyAndre' Goodman - Corneback - free agencyNick Greisen - Linebacker - free agencyRenaldo Hill - Free Safety - free agencyJ'Vonne Parker - Defensive Tackle - free agencyDarrell Reid - Defensive Tackle - free agencyRobert Ayers - Linebacker - draftAlphonso Smith - Cornerback - draftDarcel McBath - Cornerback - draftDavid Bruton - Safety - draftI don't think you can say the Broncos did nothing to improve defensively. Here's 13 reasons that say differently. I know some of these guys aren't going to help much, some might not even make the team, but I thought I'd include them anyway just to show that they are trying. Do I think Denver is going to be a top 10 or top 15 defense this year? No, but I think they'll at least be a little better than their dismal performance last year.Do I think they should have gone for more defensive players in the draft? Heck yes, but this Bronco team is more than a 1 year project, so maybe MickeyD was value drafting. Hopefully they can nab more defensive players in next years draft/free agency. I'm sure the work isn't done yet on defense. I'm actually happy with the Broncos first 2 picks, but the draft kinda went downhill for Joshy after that.Orton should be fine as a game manager for the Broncos this year, he's no Cutler, but he won't be asked to do what Cutler does. I think Denver should be above average at WR with Marshall, Royal, Stokely, and Gafney. I think Knowshon, CBuck, Jordan, and Hillis will carry the running game admirably. I think the offense will be a little worse than last year, but I think the defense will be slightly better, hopefully Nolan and company surprise and turn this into a 20ish ranked D this season. I think overall Denver will be a slightly better team than last year, although it won't show in the record. They have a brutal schedule and I'm looking for about 5-11, 6-10 area for them. I just think saying they did nothing to shore up the defense is ludicrous.

sig is just to make things easier in the asst coach forums...i don't see the big deal

I don't think I've ever read anyone's sig. That's probably why I don't have one. I can see how it would be helpful in the AC forum though.

Ok, so they've done something, but a slightly better defense than they had last year is still an below average defense. Does this make Moreno's prospects significantly better?

No, I guess not, but if he's still on the board in the 5th round, I'll take a chance on him. Denver had one of the best offensive lines in the league last season, and they will be very good again. I think Moreno has a good chance to shine. Denver, while I said would be 5-11 or 6-10 this year, but I think the losses will be closer games, not as many blowouts. That should keep them from throwing on every down at the end of games. I think the Broncos are going to better than most people are giving them credit for, it's because of the brutal schedule that you won't see improvement in their record. I think there will be more toughness in their defense, and the losses will be in closer games.

 

[Tau837]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

I just don't get the Moreno love. #1 there's no guarantee he'll start.#2 this is almost certainly not the same "plug anyone in and watch 'em run" denver RB factory of the past.#3 I personally see absolutely nothing 'special' about the kid (ala a physical specimen like AP or speed like CJ3) that would make me rank him higher than proven commodities.#4 given the fact the broncos did nothing to sure up an awful defense, and losing their star QB, I see them playing from behind quite a bit this year, which is not conducive to consistent rb production.

#1 So who do you think might start instead?#2 Maybe you're not familiar with Denver's offensive line...#4 Why couldn't this result in a lot of targets for Moreno?

#1 Buckhalter, Jordan?#2 I am familiar with the ZBS of the past. They've lost just about everyone relative to it.#3 It could. Are you ranking him as the #3 RB on the assumption he's going to catch 90 balls?

#1 Buckhalter? Jordan? For more than at most a few games to start the season? #2 Football Outsiders ranked Denver's OL #1 for rushing last season. Who cares what they've lost relative to ZBS?#4 Maybe I missed something. Who said Moreno is the #3 RB? WTF are you talking about? Will he catch 90 passes? No, I don't think so. I was responding to your point that Denver may have a worse QB and may have to play from behind... which I suggested could result in a good number of targets for Moreno. Not sure what you're talking about here.

 

[Couch Potato]

Ya, I have Moreno as my RB3 behind AP and Westbrook so I'm not too concerned about him being the week one starter, but every day he misses makes it a better chance one of those veteran RB's they signed impresses the coaches and gives them the primary RB role.I just think back to the year I drafted Cedric Benson over Larry Johnson as my handcuff to Priest in Benson's rookie year . . . potential and hype are a dangerous thing for a rookie RB. They start to believe their own press, hold out for more money, and then lose the job to the aging vet with experience in the system.

I just don't get the Moreno love. #1 there's no guarantee he'll start.#2 this is almost certainly not the same "plug anyone in and watch 'em run" denver RB factory of the past.#3 I personally see absolutely nothing 'special' about the kid (ala a physical specimen like AP or speed like CJ3) that would make me rank him higher than proven commodities.#4 given the fact the broncos did nothing to sure up an awful defense, and losing their star QB, I see them playing from behind quite a bit this year, which is not conducive to consistent rb production.

#1 So who do you think might start instead?#2 Maybe you're not familiar with Denver's offensive line...#4 Why couldn't this result in a lot of targets for Moreno?

#1 Buckhalter, Jordan?#2 I am familiar with the ZBS of the past. They've lost just about everyone relative to it.#3 It could. Are you ranking him as the #3 RB on the assumption he's going to catch 90 balls?

I think you've misunderstood benyamen. He isn't ranking Moreno as the #3 RB in FF, but Moreno is #3 on his own team behind ADP and Westbrook.By the way, Denver has an excellent OL. Your #2 comment is way off the mark. You might want to go do a little research before making comments like that.Moreno wasn't drafted #15 overall so that he could sit behind a couple of 30-something journeymen. Again, you really ought to do more reading and less firing from the hip, because many of your comments are coming across as uninformed.

 

[valence]

I seriously think Donald Brown is going to have the better career. In rookie drafts, non-ppr, I would take Brown over Moreno at #1 overall. Is that crazy?

 

[shredhead]

I seriously think Donald Brown is going to have the better career. In rookie drafts, non-ppr, I would take Brown over Moreno at #1 overall. Is that crazy?

No, it's not crazy, it's just your opinion or gut feeling. Truth is that's all anyone has to go on at this point, so your gut opinion is just as good as anyone elses. I happen to disagree with you, at least as far as their early careers go. I think Moreno will see the ball a lot more than Brown as long as he and Addai are on the same team. Now later in their careers, Brown could very well exceed Moreno, once again it's anybody's guess. Either way you go, it's not crazy.

 

[Couch Potato]

I seriously think Donald Brown is going to have the better career. In rookie drafts, non-ppr, I would take Brown over Moreno at #1 overall. Is that crazy?

No, it's not crazy, it's just your opinion or gut feeling. Truth is that's all anyone has to go on at this point, so your gut opinion is just as good as anyone elses. I happen to disagree with you, at least as far as their early careers go. I think Moreno will see the ball a lot more than Brown as long as he and Addai are on the same team. Now later in their careers, Brown could very well exceed Moreno, once again it's anybody's guess. Either way you go, it's not crazy.

In 2002, rookie drafts generally went:1) NFL first rounder William Green2) NFL first rounder TJ Duckett3) Some 2nd round guy named Clinton Portis.I had the #1 pick that year. Lucky me. I was so smart I took Portis #1 overall!!!Nope, I lied. I took Green.

 

[massraider]

Hold out for your money Knowshon!!

You are worth 40 mill garanteed!

Don't let them screw you!!!

Signed,

Raider Nation

 

[Dutch Kincade]

In 2002, rookie drafts generally went:1) NFL first rounder William Green2) NFL first rounder TJ Duckett3) Some 2nd round guy named Clinton Portis.I had the #1 pick that year. Lucky me. I was so smart I took Portis #1 overall!!!Nope, I lied. I took Green.

I've seen this comparison a few times. I know you are not connecting the two as equivalent, but let's remember there are some fairly big differences, not the least of which is Moreno is a relatively smart kid, has a sound family, upbringing and support system and is going to a successful franchise. Green on the other hand, had early tragedy to both his parents, didn't handle it well maturity wise, got in trouble at school, and basically cut his career short from insane off the field behavior...not on field performance/talent...not to mention going to a new and fledgling franchise in Cleveland.Of course there are other things like Moreno has been hyped his whole life, being Mr Football of New Jersey, was basically #8 in his recruiting class and has continued to climb up the charts to his current #1RB taken status. In comparison to Green, Moreno played in the SEC and Green the ACC...and that should give a bit more confidence in Moreno's experience.Also, to the poster that said is picking Brown a bit crazy. Yeah...I think it is. I know it is all a guessing game at this point but don't more non-subjective things point to Moreno being more successful than Donald Brown at this point? I wouldn't bank on a "gut" feeling. It's like poker, I know going into a bet I may lose, but if I'm a 80/20 favorite I'm going to call (or raise) every time. If I keep betting the 20/80 underdog hand on a "gut", I'm probably not going to win in the long run. And by probably I mean definitely.

 

[Tanner9919]

#4 given the fact the broncos did nothing to sure up an awful defense

Mike Nolan - Defensive coordinatorBrian Dawkins - Free Safety - free agencyAndra Davis - Inside linebacker - free agencyRonald Fields - Nose Tackle - free agencyAndre' Goodman - Corneback - free agencyNick Greisen - Linebacker - free agencyRenaldo Hill - Free Safety - free agencyJ'Vonne Parker - Defensive Tackle - free agencyDarrell Reid - Defensive Tackle - free agencyRobert Ayers - Linebacker - draftAlphonso Smith - Cornerback - draftDarcel McBath - Cornerback - draftDavid Bruton - Safety - draftI don't think you can say the Broncos did nothing to improve defensively. Here's 13 reasons that say differently. I know some of these guys aren't going to help much, some might not even make the team, but I thought I'd include them anyway just to show that they are trying. Do I think Denver is going to be a top 10 or top 15 defense this year? No, but I think they'll at least be a little better than their dismal performance last year.Do I think they should have gone for more defensive players in the draft? Heck yes, but this Bronco team is more than a 1 year project, so maybe MickeyD was value drafting. Hopefully they can nab more defensive players in next years draft/free agency. I'm sure the work isn't done yet on defense. I'm actually happy with the Broncos first 2 picks, but the draft kinda went downhill for Joshy after that.Orton should be fine as a game manager for the Broncos this year, he's no Cutler, but he won't be asked to do what Cutler does. I think Denver should be above average at WR with Marshall, Royal, Stokely, and Gafney. I think Knowshon, CBuck, Jordan, and Hillis will carry the running game admirably. I think the offense will be a little worse than last year, but I think the defense will be slightly better, hopefully Nolan and company surprise and turn this into a 20ish ranked D this season. I think overall Denver will be a slightly better team than last year, although it won't show in the record. They have a brutal schedule and I'm looking for about 5-11, 6-10 area for them. I just think saying they did nothing to shore up the defense is ludicrous.

sig is just to make things easier in the asst coach forums...i don't see the big deal

I don't think I've ever read anyone's sig. That's probably why I don't have one. I can see how it would be helpful in the AC forum though.

I dunno, Mike Nolan?! when has he ever done anything special as a DC? and Brian Dawkins is like milk that is 4 days past its 'best if used by' date.. no so sure he brings a lot to the table...are the remaining free agents top of the line guys? no. Greisen is an `also-ran` LB.I'm not saying I think Moreno stinks or anything like that, but a few things work against him:1. McDaniels is tied to the RBBC approach to running the ball.always has been.2. 5 other RB's already exist on Denver's roster..so combining these with point #1 , is like throwing gasoline on a torch, i.e., combining 5+ RB's + McDaniels love for RBBC = less than stellar stats for Moreno. of the backup RBs, who do you suspect will be cut? Lamont Jordan? Buckhalter? I doubt any of them are released,and judging by the way NE collected RB's, I'd imagine McDaniels is planning to do the same.3. what exactly will Orton bring to the table? 4. we don't believe the hype surrounding Bellichick cronies like McDaniels.can you honestly see Moreno getting more than,say, 150 carries with 5 other RB's on the roster, including some talented ones ..?Mike Shanahan has left the building, taking with him one of the best running games over the past 10 years..again I'm not saying Moreno has no talent, but his situation is less than idea for a top 12 RB.where would you rank Moreno right now? I'd have him at about 30-something...cannot see drafting him ahead of any of these guys( in no specific order)GoreWestbrookForteADPSjaxMJDPortisJacobsLTWellsGrantLewisBarberSlatonK. SmithS MorrisMcFaddenTJLynchJulius JonesRonnie BrownLJBushPierre Thomasseriously, you can make a point for maybe Moreno over McFadden, maybe one or two more.but someone in this thread put Moreno at RB #12?

 

[JamesTheScot]

#2 this is almost certainly not the same "plug anyone in and watch 'em run" denver RB factory of the past.

#2 Maybe you're not familiar with Denver's offensive line...

#2 I am familiar with the ZBS of the past. They've lost just about everyone relative to it.

By the way, Denver has an excellent OL. Your #2 comment is way off the mark. You might want to go do a little research before making comments like that.

I don't have time right now to go back and confirm it but I think I read that McDaniels and company are abandoning the Shanahan blocking scheme to install the Patriots blocking scheme.Considering that the Bronco's OL's were unusually small compared to the NFL "average" and were purpose built so-to-speak for the Shanahan scheme, there could be some disruption this season if the OL is learning a new system.I could be thinking of some other team though. Does that ring a bell to anyone else?

 

[Tau837]

I dunno, Mike Nolan?! when has he ever done anything special as a DC?

He has been a DC 11 seasons, and his teams were top 10 in points allowed several times and top 5 in yardage allowed a few times. His teams were almost always in the top half of the league in both categories. His most recent stint as DC was in Baltimore from 2002 to 2004... in 2003 and 2004, Baltimore was top 6 in both points allowed and yards allowed.Obviously, he doesn't have as much to work with in Denver as he had in Baltimore, but to question whether or not he should help the Denver defense seems off base.

I'm not saying I think Moreno stinks or anything like that, but a few things work against him:1. McDaniels is tied to the RBBC approach to running the ball.always has been.

He's only been an OC for 3 or 4 seasons, depending on whether or not you count 2005, for a single franchise that did not have a feature back during that time. Apples and oranges.If you think New England had a franchise back that he chose not to feature, tell us who it was.

can you honestly see Moreno getting more than,say, 150 carries with 5 other RB's on the roster, including some talented ones ..?Mike Shanahan has left the building, taking with him one of the best running games over the past 10 years..again I'm not saying Moreno has no talent, but his situation is less than idea for a top 12 RB.where would you rank Moreno right now? I'd have him at about 30-something...cannot see drafting him ahead of any of these guys( in no specific order)GoreWestbrookForteADPSjaxMJDPortisJacobsLTWellsGrantLewisBarberSlatonK. SmithS MorrisMcFaddenTJLynchJulius JonesRonnie BrownLJBushPierre Thomasseriously, you can make a point for maybe Moreno over McFadden, maybe one or two more.but someone in this thread put Moreno at RB #12?

 

[frogpond11]

I'd take Moreno over Julius Jones, S Morris, Jamal Lewis, McFadden, LJ, and Bush....from your list(tanner9919)...but that's just me...

 

[TheWick]

Sammy Freakin Morris?

come on Tanner your seriously setting up league mates for a draft you have coming up...right?

Ridiculous

 

[Darko M]

All it takes is for him to play in one preseason game and break off a 60 yarder and he'll immediately be a 3rd rounder.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Way too risky for me at his ADP, for many of the reasons already mentioned.

We don't know what the Denver offense will look like. Could be good, could be bad. Could be run heavy, could be pass-heavy. Could feature a RBBC or could feature one guy. We can GUESS on a lot of these things, but we don't have much to base these guess on. I'm not sure previous Denver results are particularly relevant, nor am I sure previous McDaniels results are particularly relevant.

Then we have the fact that he isn't signed, and there is some noise he won't be any time soon. If it's a short hold-out no big deal, but if it goes all through pre-season I seriously doubt they are going to rush a rookie who doesn't know the offense or protection schemes into the lineup. Especially since they spent a lot of money on free agents who WILL have experience with the offense.

Then we have Moreno himself. Some people love his talent, some not so much. You do have to wonder a little bit about the fairly abysmal measurables. I'm not saying he can't be great, but this isn't the kind of guy everybody just says "Yup, he's the man" before they even see him produce in the NFL. This is NOT a Peterson-type prospect.

I'm sure I'll massacred for this, but you can get Julius Jones for peanuts, and he has far fewer risks than Moreno, and maybe a similar upside (on what could be a very good team). He's just not sexy right now.

All in all, just not for me. If you are in love with his talent, I could see making a play for him, but I'm not 100% convinced that he's the ELITE talent he'll need to be to counter all of the question marks.

 

[shredhead]

where would you rank Moreno right now? I'd have him at about 30-something...

cannot see drafting him ahead of any of these guys

( in no specific order)

Gore

Westbrook

Forte

ADP

Sjax

MJD

Portis

Jacobs

LT

Wells

Grant

Lewis

Barber

Slaton

K. Smith

S Morris

McFadden

TJ

Lynch

Julius Jones

Ronnie Brown

LJ

Bush

Pierre Thomas

seriously, you can make a point for maybe Moreno over McFadden, maybe one or two more.

but someone in this thread put Moreno at RB #12?

Fixed!Sammy Morris??? Really??

I almost didn't scratch out TJ, Wells, or McFadden as they are all comparable in my opinion.

 

[Birdie048]

Way too risky for me at his ADP, for many of the reasons already mentioned.

We don't know what the Denver offense will look like. Could be good, could be bad. Could be run heavy, could be pass-heavy. Could feature a RBBC or could feature one guy. We can GUESS on a lot of these things, but we don't have much to base these guess on. I'm not sure previous Denver results are particularly relevant, nor am I sure previous McDaniels results are particularly relevant.

Then we have the fact that he isn't signed, and there is some noise he won't be any time soon. If it's a short hold-out no big deal, but if it goes all through pre-season I seriously doubt they are going to rush a rookie who doesn't know the offense or protection schemes into the lineup. Especially since they spent a lot of money on free agents who WILL have experience with the offense.

Then we have Moreno himself. Some people love his talent, some not so much. You do have to wonder a little bit about the fairly abysmal measurables. I'm not saying he can't be great, but this isn't the kind of guy everybody just says "Yup, he's the man" before they even see him produce in the NFL. This is NOT a Peterson-type prospect.

I'm sure I'll massacred for this, but you can get Julius Jones for peanuts, and he has far fewer risks than Moreno, and maybe a similar upside (on what could be a very good team). He's just not sexy right now.

All in all, just not for me. If you are in love with his talent, I could see making a play for him, but I'm not 100% convinced that he's the ELITE talent he'll need to be to counter all of the question marks.

In response to your JJ/Moreno comment... I agree that JJ has fewer questions and is a "safer pick"..., but I don't see the upside as being equal. JJ has a lower ceiling as he has had opportunity to demonstrate his abilites. Granted, he has had an injury filled history that hinders it's full discolosure, but what's to say his ceiling is equal to Moreno? Moreno might be RBBC while JJ should/could be primary RB role.

But Championships are not won in the later rounds on Safe Picks..... Safe picks are for the early rounds, championships are won with the gamble/research/insight to take that player who exceeds his ADP. JJ is not such a move.

Moreno might be..... too early to tell.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Way too risky for me at his ADP, for many of the reasons already mentioned.

We don't know what the Denver offense will look like. Could be good, could be bad. Could be run heavy, could be pass-heavy. Could feature a RBBC or could feature one guy. We can GUESS on a lot of these things, but we don't have much to base these guess on. I'm not sure previous Denver results are particularly relevant, nor am I sure previous McDaniels results are particularly relevant.

Then we have the fact that he isn't signed, and there is some noise he won't be any time soon. If it's a short hold-out no big deal, but if it goes all through pre-season I seriously doubt they are going to rush a rookie who doesn't know the offense or protection schemes into the lineup. Especially since they spent a lot of money on free agents who WILL have experience with the offense.

Then we have Moreno himself. Some people love his talent, some not so much. You do have to wonder a little bit about the fairly abysmal measurables. I'm not saying he can't be great, but this isn't the kind of guy everybody just says "Yup, he's the man" before they even see him produce in the NFL. This is NOT a Peterson-type prospect.

I'm sure I'll massacred for this, but you can get Julius Jones for peanuts, and he has far fewer risks than Moreno, and maybe a similar upside (on what could be a very good team). He's just not sexy right now.

All in all, just not for me. If you are in love with his talent, I could see making a play for him, but I'm not 100% convinced that he's the ELITE talent he'll need to be to counter all of the question marks.

In response to your JJ/Moreno comment... I agree that JJ has fewer questions and is a "safer pick"..., but I don't see the upside as being equal. JJ has a lower ceiling as he has had opportunity to demonstrate his abilites. Granted, he has had an injury filled history that hinders it's full discolosure, but what's to say his ceiling is equal to Moreno? Moreno might be RBBC while JJ should/could be primary RB role.

But Championships are not won in the later rounds on Safe Picks..... Safe picks are for the early rounds, championships are won with the gamble/research/insight to take that player who exceeds his ADP. JJ is not such a move.

Moreno might be..... too early to tell.

I agree with looking for upside later on. Moreno just doesn't represent that for me. I would be just as surprised if Moreno ended up in the top 5 than I would if JJ ended up there. I'm not enthralled with his talent, but sometimes opportunity trumps talent in a redraft scenario. I don't remember the details, but Julius Jones was a top 5 back through 4 or 5 games last season. Then Morris came back on to the scene and it was over as quickly as it started. But the opportunity is there for a very solid season. You can say that about a lot of backs of course, but my point is it doesn't seem that much (if any) more likely for Moreno than JJ to me.As far as actually outperforming an ADP, I think Julius is far more likely to do that than Moreno, just because Julius is so low. Not every guy is going to be Adrian Peterson or LT, and getting a solid #2 RB from a fairly late pick would be a huge benefit to a redraft team (if it works out that way - I grant you that isn't a lock for either one of them).

 

[frogpond11]

Good thing is..I can afford to wait on Moreno to get significant carries in the Denver offense..because I have MJD, Barber, and Portis starting in front of him, plus I have Fred Jackson to use the first 3 games of the year if I need/want to..because as we all know, he'll be the primary back in those 3 games with Lynch's suspension. So I've got plenty of options, I would have just liked Moreno to be the guy from the get go with those tasty weeks 1-2 matchups he's got...even week 3(oakland). So I'll hold on to him and hope for the best.

 

[shredhead]

Way too risky for me at his ADP, for many of the reasons already mentioned.

We don't know what the Denver offense will look like. Could be good, could be bad. Could be run heavy, could be pass-heavy. Could feature a RBBC or could feature one guy. We can GUESS on a lot of these things, but we don't have much to base these guess on. I'm not sure previous Denver results are particularly relevant, nor am I sure previous McDaniels results are particularly relevant.

Then we have the fact that he isn't signed, and there is some noise he won't be any time soon. If it's a short hold-out no big deal, but if it goes all through pre-season I seriously doubt they are going to rush a rookie who doesn't know the offense or protection schemes into the lineup. Especially since they spent a lot of money on free agents who WILL have experience with the offense.

Then we have Moreno himself. Some people love his talent, some not so much. You do have to wonder a little bit about the fairly abysmal measurables. I'm not saying he can't be great, but this isn't the kind of guy everybody just says "Yup, he's the man" before they even see him produce in the NFL. This is NOT a Peterson-type prospect.

I'm sure I'll massacred for this, but you can get Julius Jones for peanuts, and he has far fewer risks than Moreno, and maybe a similar upside (on what could be a very good team). He's just not sexy right now.

All in all, just not for me. If you are in love with his talent, I could see making a play for him, but I'm not 100% convinced that he's the ELITE talent he'll need to be to counter all of the question marks.

In response to your JJ/Moreno comment... I agree that JJ has fewer questions and is a "safer pick"..., but I don't see the upside as being equal. JJ has a lower ceiling as he has had opportunity to demonstrate his abilites. Granted, he has had an injury filled history that hinders it's full discolosure, but what's to say his ceiling is equal to Moreno? Moreno might be RBBC while JJ should/could be primary RB role.

But Championships are not won in the later rounds on Safe Picks..... Safe picks are for the early rounds, championships are won with the gamble/research/insight to take that player who exceeds his ADP. JJ is not such a move.

Moreno might be..... too early to tell.

I agree with looking for upside later on. Moreno just doesn't represent that for me. I would be just as surprised if Moreno ended up in the top 5 than I would if JJ ended up there. I'm not enthralled with his talent, but sometimes opportunity trumps talent in a redraft scenario. I don't remember the details, but Julius Jones was a top 5 back through 4 or 5 games last season. Then Morris came back on to the scene and it was over as quickly as it started. But the opportunity is there for a very solid season. You can say that about a lot of backs of course, but my point is it doesn't seem that much (if any) more likely for Moreno than JJ to me.As far as actually outperforming an ADP, I think Julius is far more likely to do that than Moreno, just because Julius is so low. Not every guy is going to be Adrian Peterson or LT, and getting a solid #2 RB from a fairly late pick would be a huge benefit to a redraft team (if it works out that way - I grant you that isn't a lock for either one of them).

There isn't any scenario that makes Julius Jones a better pick than Knowshon Moreno. None!

 

[moleculo]

#2 this is almost certainly not the same "plug anyone in and watch 'em run" denver RB factory of the past.

#2 Maybe you're not familiar with Denver's offensive line...

#2 I am familiar with the ZBS of the past. They've lost just about everyone relative to it.

By the way, Denver has an excellent OL. Your #2 comment is way off the mark. You might want to go do a little research before making comments like that.

I don't have time right now to go back and confirm it but I think I read that McDaniels and company are abandoning the Shanahan blocking scheme to install the Patriots blocking scheme.Considering that the Bronco's OL's were unusually small compared to the NFL "average" and were purpose built so-to-speak for the Shanahan scheme, there could be some disruption this season if the OL is learning a new system.I could be thinking of some other team though. Does that ring a bell to anyone else?

nope. McD even implemented some ZBS stuff @ NE last year. He will be implementing some of his blocking schemes in Denver, but they will not be abandoning the ZBS completely.Look at it this way - Den ran ZBS maybe 80% of the time last year (a guess). This year it's maybe 60% of the time. It's a mix, and McD will be changing the mix slightly. And, I don't think that's a bad thing - Denver has historically not been very good in short yardage situations - having more of a power line will help in this situation.

 

[moleculo]

#2 I am familiar with the ZBS of the past. They've lost just about everyone relative to it.

outside of Shanahan, who have they lost now? Jeremy Bates, the play caller, responsible for throwing nearly 70% of the time? I'm not gonna call that a big loss, WRT the Bronco running game.OC (really OL coach) = Rick Dennisson, protoge of Alex Gibbs - retainedRB coach = Bobby Turner - retained5 starting OL = retainedstarting TE = Graham - retainedI'd say they returned more of their running game than they lost, but that's me.

 

[TheWick]

Way too risky for me at his ADP, for many of the reasons already mentioned.

We don't know what the Denver offense will look like. Could be good, could be bad. Could be run heavy, could be pass-heavy. Could feature a RBBC or could feature one guy. We can GUESS on a lot of these things, but we don't have much to base these guess on. I'm not sure previous Denver results are particularly relevant, nor am I sure previous McDaniels results are particularly relevant.

Then we have the fact that he isn't signed, and there is some noise he won't be any time soon. If it's a short hold-out no big deal, but if it goes all through pre-season I seriously doubt they are going to rush a rookie who doesn't know the offense or protection schemes into the lineup. Especially since they spent a lot of money on free agents who WILL have experience with the offense.

Then we have Moreno himself. Some people love his talent, some not so much. You do have to wonder a little bit about the fairly abysmal measurables. I'm not saying he can't be great, but this isn't the kind of guy everybody just says "Yup, he's the man" before they even see him produce in the NFL. This is NOT a Peterson-type prospect.

I'm sure I'll massacred for this, but you can get Julius Jones for peanuts, and he has far fewer risks than Moreno, and maybe a similar upside (on what could be a very good team). He's just not sexy right now.

All in all, just not for me. If you are in love with his talent, I could see making a play for him, but I'm not 100% convinced that he's the ELITE talent he'll need to be to counter all of the question marks.

In response to your JJ/Moreno comment... I agree that JJ has fewer questions and is a "safer pick"..., but I don't see the upside as being equal. JJ has a lower ceiling as he has had opportunity to demonstrate his abilites. Granted, he has had an injury filled history that hinders it's full discolosure, but what's to say his ceiling is equal to Moreno? Moreno might be RBBC while JJ should/could be primary RB role.

But Championships are not won in the later rounds on Safe Picks..... Safe picks are for the early rounds, championships are won with the gamble/research/insight to take that player who exceeds his ADP. JJ is not such a move.

Moreno might be..... too early to tell.

I agree with looking for upside later on. Moreno just doesn't represent that for me. I would be just as surprised if Moreno ended up in the top 5 than I would if JJ ended up there. I'm not enthralled with his talent, but sometimes opportunity trumps talent in a redraft scenario. I don't remember the details, but Julius Jones was a top 5 back through 4 or 5 games last season. Then Morris came back on to the scene and it was over as quickly as it started. But the opportunity is there for a very solid season. You can say that about a lot of backs of course, but my point is it doesn't seem that much (if any) more likely for Moreno than JJ to me.As far as actually outperforming an ADP, I think Julius is far more likely to do that than Moreno, just because Julius is so low. Not every guy is going to be Adrian Peterson or LT, and getting a solid #2 RB from a fairly late pick would be a huge benefit to a redraft team (if it works out that way - I grant you that isn't a lock for either one of them).

There isn't any scenario that makes Julius Jones a better pick than Knowshon Moreno. None!

these guys can't be serious

 

[captbly]

I took Moreno in my keeper leauge. I still think he needs to get his butt in camp now...but I am not expecting #1 numbers from him this year. I have AP and he worked out good...Im hoping Moreno follows suit.

 

[Donnybrook]

Per KFFL: 

Cardinals | Wells agrees to deal  Sat, 01 Aug 2009 07:09:27 -0700ProFootballTalk.com reports Arizona Cardinals first-round draft pick RB Chris Wells has agreed to terms on a four-year contract with a fifth-year option, according to a league source. Wells plans to get on the practice field Saturday, Aug. 1. 

 

[SSOG]

#2 I am familiar with the ZBS of the past. They've lost just about everyone relative to it.

Actually, it's pretty obvious that you're not at all familiar with the ZBS of the past if you think they've lost everyone relative to it. With all due respect to Alex Gibbs, Rick Dennison is the premier ZBS guru in the game right now. Not only is he the OL coach, but his title under Shanahan was officially "Offensive Coordinator" and he was given the responsibility of coordinating the entire running game. Bobby Turner, the RB coach, is the Rick Dennison of RBs. He's the guy who taught one-cut, positive yardage running to Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, Tatum Bell, Ryan Torain, Peyton Hillis, Michael Pittman, and every other RB to ever take part in Denver's storied rushing attack.Also, personnel-wise, they haven't lost *ANYONE* relevant to the ZBS. All five offensive linemen return, including Ben Hamilton, who has been running the ZBS for the better part of a decade now, and Ryan Harris and Chris Kuper, who both were brought up in the ZBS since they were rookies (Ryan Clady has, too, but that's not as impressive seeing as that's been all of one year). All three key WRs and both TEs return from a year ago, so you can rest assured that the skill players are still very well versed in the necessity of downfield blocking.

I'm not saying I think Moreno stinks or anything like that, but a few things work against him:1. McDaniels is tied to the RBBC approach to running the ball.always has been.2. 5 other RB's already exist on Denver's roster..so combining these with point #1 , is like throwing gasoline on a torch, i.e., combining 5+ RB's + McDaniels love for RBBC = less than stellar stats for Moreno. of the backup RBs, who do you suspect will be cut? Lamont Jordan? Buckhalter? I doubt any of them are released,and judging by the way NE collected RB's, I'd imagine McDaniels is planning to do the same.3. what exactly will Orton bring to the table? 4. we don't believe the hype surrounding Bellichick cronies like McDaniels.can you honestly see Moreno getting more than,say, 150 carries with 5 other RB's on the roster, including some talented ones ..?

Let me flip the question on you. Can you honestly see McDaniels investing the #12 draft pick, despite GLARING NEEDS on defense resulting from both the incredibly suckitude of personnel and a defensive scheme change, on an RB who he plans on giving the ball 150 times a year? Can you honestly see the team devoting $12 million dollars in guaranteed money to make an RB one of the highest paid players at his position in the league because they only plan on giving him the ball 150 times?

 

[Mr. Pickles]

sig is just to make things easier in the asst coach forums...i don't see the big deal

You'd better start seeing it.