Knowshon Moreno: Has the hate gone too far? (1 Viewer)

[loose circuits]

and lets not forget if Tebow gets the starting gig.....he will vulture some serious looks inside the 10....

If that's the case, he won't be the starting QB very long since he'll be in the hospitalalso, Bush, BGE, and Tolbert are all restricted. ROnnie may be washed up, Benson is candidate for suspension, Jerome Harrison nor Brandon Jackson have never held a starting gig, Ricky & Portis are old men. I don't think any of those guys other than Deangelo and Ahmad who would get a majority carries if RBBC w/ Moreno

Jerome Harrison had 194 rushes and 34 receptions in 13 games in 2009 for 1082/7 which looks pretty similar to the 182/37 for 1151/8 that Moreno put up in 13 games last season.

so you expect the Broncos to sign a similar player who is like 4-5 years older and give him more of the carries? not sure what you are trying to say

 

[baconisgood]

and lets not forget if Tebow gets the starting gig.....he will vulture some serious looks inside the 10....

If that's the case, he won't be the starting QB very long since he'll be in the hospitalalso, Bush, BGE, and Tolbert are all restricted. ROnnie may be washed up, Benson is candidate for suspension, Jerome Harrison nor Brandon Jackson have never held a starting gig, Ricky & Portis are old men. I don't think any of those guys other than Deangelo and Ahmad who would get a majority carries if RBBC w/ Moreno

Jerome Harrison had 194 rushes and 34 receptions in 13 games in 2009 for 1082/7 which looks pretty similar to the 182/37 for 1151/8 that Moreno put up in 13 games last season.

so you expect the Broncos to sign a similar player who is like 4-5 years older and give him more of the carries? not sure what you are trying to say

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Depends on what Denver does with free agency, obviously, but I am keeping Moreno on my draft list.

Moreno scored TD's, caught passes, and scored excellent FF points *when healthy* last year. He didn't look like much while doing it but he did it. None of his bacfield mates did any better that's for sure, it was not all him.

The risk was that he would come out of games with some hamstring injury. In general maybe people had a bad impression of him, labeled him a bust etc. in drafts and maybe in 2011 you can take advantage of that because if he does better with his offseason preparation and training then perhaps he has a good season at hopefully a relatively low draft cost.

Playing for Fox has advantages and that goes without saying past that much.

Hey here's a thought: would Fox go somewhere where he did NOT have big faith in the current primary RB ???

 

[Stinkin Ref]

and lets not forget if Tebow gets the starting gig.....he will vulture some serious looks inside the 10....

If that's the case, he won't be the starting QB very long since he'll be in the hospitalalso, Bush, BGE, and Tolbert are all restricted. ROnnie may be washed up, Benson is candidate for suspension, Jerome Harrison nor Brandon Jackson have never held a starting gig, Ricky & Portis are old men. I don't think any of those guys other than Deangelo and Ahmad who would get a majority carries if RBBC w/ Moreno

Jerome Harrison had 194 rushes and 34 receptions in 13 games in 2009 for 1082/7 which looks pretty similar to the 182/37 for 1151/8 that Moreno put up in 13 games last season.

so you expect the Broncos to sign a similar player who is like 4-5 years older and give him more of the carries? not sure what you are trying to say

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

I cut and pasted that FA list from the tracking thread in the pool....and I guess to me it doesn't really matter a ton....I stand by the thought that if they are going to bring somebody in, it says about all you need to know....and owners may be lucky to get what they got last year out of Moreno.....for the area where he is going, I'll take Dwilly, Jstew (assuming dwilly leaves), or even guys like Fred Jack or Lynch later....at best Moreno is part of a RBBC....with my 4th round pick I want a guy that I am plugging in every week no questions asked....even if I have to go a different position....

 

[loose circuits]

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

I cut and pasted that FA list from the tracking thread in the pool....and I guess to me it doesn't really matter a ton....I stand by the thought that if they are going to bring somebody in, it says about all you need to know....and owners may be lucky to get what they got last year out of Moreno.....for the area where he is going, I'll take Dwilly, Jstew (assuming dwilly leaves), or even guys like Fred Jack or Lynch later....at best Moreno is part of a RBBC....with my 4th round pick I want a guy that I am plugging in every week no questions asked....even if I have to go a different position....

so you guys don't see that they may need depth? Signing someone immediately means Moreno is going to lose his job? If they are going to add a RB, he's going to put Moreno on the bench? I just don't see it. I think Fox knows that he can't rely on Buck, Lance Ball, Jeremiah Johnson, or Lendale White as the #2. With Moreno's injury history of course they need to make sure that position is solidified. Although it seems like he's been working on his durability with his new workout regiment all off season...Most backs in the NFL have somewhat of a split, so bringing in a committee partner isn't that big of deal. Fact is, Moreno is improving in passing game and should still get half the carries in the regular offense. Sounds like a great value in PPR leagues to me. I don't know about 4th round picks and don't think you need to buy there. His dynasty market value is what I'm saying he's a good value and it's a lot lower than 4th round type value. I don't play in redrafts unless invited to FBG's best ball thing they have...

 

[todisco1]

Hey here's a thought: would Fox go somewhere where he did NOT have big faith in the current primary RB ???

How many other head coaching jobs was Fox being offered? I actually don't know, maybe he had 3 or 4 gigs to choose from, but I don't think having faith in Moreno as a feature back was a key component in him taking the gig.

 

[baconisgood]

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

I cut and pasted that FA list from the tracking thread in the pool....and I guess to me it doesn't really matter a ton....I stand by the thought that if they are going to bring somebody in, it says about all you need to know....and owners may be lucky to get what they got last year out of Moreno.....for the area where he is going, I'll take Dwilly, Jstew (assuming dwilly leaves), or even guys like Fred Jack or Lynch later....at best Moreno is part of a RBBC....with my 4th round pick I want a guy that I am plugging in every week no questions asked....even if I have to go a different position....

so you guys don't see that they may need depth? Signing someone immediately means Moreno is going to lose his job? If they are going to add a RB, he's going to put Moreno on the bench? I just don't see it. I think Fox knows that he can't rely on Buck, Lance Ball, Jeremiah Johnson, or Lendale White as the #2. With Moreno's injury history of course they need to make sure that position is solidified. Although it seems like he's been working on his durability with his new workout regiment all off season...Most backs in the NFL have somewhat of a split, so bringing in a committee partner isn't that big of deal. Fact is, Moreno is improving in passing game and should still get half the carries in the regular offense. Sounds like a great value in PPR leagues to me. I don't know about 4th round picks and don't think you need to buy there. His dynasty market value is what I'm saying he's a good value and it's a lot lower than 4th round type value. I don't play in redrafts unless invited to FBG's best ball thing they have...

I don't think that another back coming in automatically means Moreno isn't the lead guy- my point in these posts is that a couple of guys (Harrison, Snelling) have looked as good as Moreno basically and that if one of these guys does come in you could end up looking at a 50/50 split or maybe even worse potentially. This drops Moreno in my eyes UNTIL FA happens and the depth chart shakes out. I have no problem projecting Moreno as a top 15 back should he land the starting job but I have to discount that for him at this point in time.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hey here's a thought: would Fox go somewhere where he did NOT have big faith in the current primary RB ???

How many other head coaching jobs was Fox being offered? I actually don't know, maybe he had 3 or 4 gigs to choose from, but I don't think having faith in Moreno as a feature back was a key component in him taking the gig.

OK, I agree, makes sense.But then why would Denver go for a RB-centric head coach if they did not feel like they had the horse to make the system work? Because they were thinking they would score Williams or Bradshaw in free agency? No sure thing there.Maybe Tebow's the key but this head coach does not look like the choice of a team that has given up on its No. 1 back.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

I cut and pasted that FA list from the tracking thread in the pool....and I guess to me it doesn't really matter a ton....I stand by the thought that if they are going to bring somebody in, it says about all you need to know....and owners may be lucky to get what they got last year out of Moreno.....for the area where he is going, I'll take Dwilly, Jstew (assuming dwilly leaves), or even guys like Fred Jack or Lynch later....at best Moreno is part of a RBBC....with my 4th round pick I want a guy that I am plugging in every week no questions asked....even if I have to go a different position....

so you guys don't see that they may need depth? Signing someone immediately means Moreno is going to lose his job? If they are going to add a RB, he's going to put Moreno on the bench? I just don't see it. I think Fox knows that he can't rely on Buck, Lance Ball, Jeremiah Johnson, or Lendale White as the #2. With Moreno's injury history of course they need to make sure that position is solidified. Although it seems like he's been working on his durability with his new workout regiment all off season...Most backs in the NFL have somewhat of a split, so bringing in a committee partner isn't that big of deal. Fact is, Moreno is improving in passing game and should still get half the carries in the regular offense. Sounds like a great value in PPR leagues to me. I don't know about 4th round picks and don't think you need to buy there. His dynasty market value is what I'm saying he's a good value and it's a lot lower than 4th round type value. I don't play in redrafts unless invited to FBG's best ball thing they have...

I am coming at this from a redraft perspective and his ADP there....and yes I believe that whoever DEN brings in, the mindset will become that that guy may indeed be the primary guy...there may be a spectrum from a guy like Dwilly who would/could very easily relagate Moreno to the bench to someone who is looked at more as a ground and pound with Moreno getting an occasional series and 3rd downs....either way it will limit his production....I live in CO, watched every Bronco game (unfortunately)...here talk from people "in the know" so to speak on the radio....and people like Cecil who have their finger on everything that is Broncos....Moreno is not looked at as "the guy"....Fox may have a different opinion, but I don't think so.....let's put it this way....there is a very good chance DEN brings in an impact RB...it is almost a given a this point....and Moreno's ADP will drop accordingly....let's revisit this in a week and half and see how all those on the Moreno value train are feeling....my feeling is that your 4th round pick should not be having his playing time questioned now or 6 weeks from now...odds are Moreno is going to be lumped in with the rest of the RBBC guys and his ADP will reflect that (the M. Bush, Goodson, Jacobs, etc)...

 

[loose circuits]

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

I cut and pasted that FA list from the tracking thread in the pool....and I guess to me it doesn't really matter a ton....I stand by the thought that if they are going to bring somebody in, it says about all you need to know....and owners may be lucky to get what they got last year out of Moreno.....for the area where he is going, I'll take Dwilly, Jstew (assuming dwilly leaves), or even guys like Fred Jack or Lynch later....at best Moreno is part of a RBBC....with my 4th round pick I want a guy that I am plugging in every week no questions asked....even if I have to go a different position....

so you guys don't see that they may need depth? Signing someone immediately means Moreno is going to lose his job? If they are going to add a RB, he's going to put Moreno on the bench? I just don't see it. I think Fox knows that he can't rely on Buck, Lance Ball, Jeremiah Johnson, or Lendale White as the #2. With Moreno's injury history of course they need to make sure that position is solidified. Although it seems like he's been working on his durability with his new workout regiment all off season...Most backs in the NFL have somewhat of a split, so bringing in a committee partner isn't that big of deal. Fact is, Moreno is improving in passing game and should still get half the carries in the regular offense. Sounds like a great value in PPR leagues to me. I don't know about 4th round picks and don't think you need to buy there. His dynasty market value is what I'm saying he's a good value and it's a lot lower than 4th round type value. I don't play in redrafts unless invited to FBG's best ball thing they have...

I am coming at this from a redraft perspective and his ADP there....and yes I believe that whoever DEN brings in, the mindset will become that that guy may indeed be the primary guy...there may be a spectrum from a guy like Dwilly who would/could very easily relagate Moreno to the bench to someone who is looked at more as a ground and pound with Moreno getting an occasional series and 3rd downs....either way it will limit his production....I live in CO, watched every Bronco game (unfortunately)...here talk from people "in the know" so to speak on the radio....and people like Cecil who have their finger on everything that is Broncos....Moreno is not looked at as "the guy"....Fox may have a different opinion, but I don't think so.....let's put it this way....there is a very good chance DEN brings in an impact RB...it is almost a given a this point....and Moreno's ADP will drop accordingly....let's revisit this in a week and half and see how all those on the Moreno value train are feeling....my feeling is that your 4th round pick should not be having his playing time questioned now or 6 weeks from now...odds are Moreno is going to be lumped in with the rest of the RBBC guys and his ADP will reflect that (the M. Bush, Goodson, Jacobs, etc)...

the problem is there are only 2 RB's that are better than him in free agency and there will be plenty of competition for those 2 guys.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

if he had been a 4th round pick two years ago people would be touting him as a possible breakout candidate. he improved from 3.8 to 4.3 ypc and had 10 yds per reception last year, both good numbers, and has a good td rate. Lammey is leading that charge and it feels biased IMO. if you were trying to build a winning team, had several needs, and didn't have a huge budget, would you blow a lot of cash on a RB? especially when you have a guy who's getting better and so many decent options available in free agency or for trade? i think the moreno hate is at ridiculous levels and am looking to buy anywhere his stock is low.

why does it seem biased? I cover the Broncos and the NFL, but am a Steelers fan. I've seen every training camp practice, media portion of practice, and from my observations we're watching a change of pace back try to fit into a feature back role.

losing weight for an injury prone back isn't a smart move IMHO. Will be interesting to see him up close at camp once again, and of course I'll let you know the latest UNBIASED from the sidelines at Dove Valley.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

More positive Moreno news coming out today:

From National Football Post

*The Broncos believe new coach John Fox could be the key to kick-starting Knowshon Moreno’s career. Fox has a good way of dealing with players, and the hope is he will be able to reach Moreno and challenge him. Moreno’s lack of maturity has been a factor in his underachieving up to this point. The Broncos recognize he has talent (maybe not 12th pick in the draft talent, but he has talent) and value, and aren’t giving up on him yet.

Exactly what I've been saying. Will he ever be the elite RB that owners thought they were getting when they drafted him two years ago? No. But will he still have value? Absolutely. Cecil is going to wind up eating crow here. I really don't understand his hatred of Moreno. For him to say he "doesn't have what it takes to play at this level" is seriously absurd.

People said the same thing last year when my first Denver Post column's headline was 'Orton could throw for 4,000 and 25 TDs'...then he was on pace to throw for 5,000People also said the same thing when I told every fantasy owner under the sun to trade Orton in OCTOBER as Tebow would be starting the final games of the season.

Listen, I don't HATE Moreno I only tell you what I know, what I observe as the person most close to this situation, and what I've heard from guys that have practiced alongside him.

You can listen or not, your choice. Moreno doesn't have what it takes to be a featured back in the pros.

Yes, he's slimmed down but what about his feet? Instincts are sharp, but his feet fail him on most carries. he can see/anticipate a hole but his feet can't keep up with his brain. Running the ball is all about creating space and Moreno fails to do that as an everydown runner.

Can he be a change of pace back? Sure. But his days as a feature back are over. BTW, John Fox said RB was their top priority in free agency just a little over a week ago.

the caliber of back they bring in will tell us exactly what they think of Moreno.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

I cut and pasted that FA list from the tracking thread in the pool....and I guess to me it doesn't really matter a ton....I stand by the thought that if they are going to bring somebody in, it says about all you need to know....and owners may be lucky to get what they got last year out of Moreno.....for the area where he is going, I'll take Dwilly, Jstew (assuming dwilly leaves), or even guys like Fred Jack or Lynch later....at best Moreno is part of a RBBC....with my 4th round pick I want a guy that I am plugging in every week no questions asked....even if I have to go a different position....

so you guys don't see that they may need depth? Signing someone immediately means Moreno is going to lose his job? If they are going to add a RB, he's going to put Moreno on the bench? I just don't see it. I think Fox knows that he can't rely on Buck, Lance Ball, Jeremiah Johnson, or Lendale White as the #2. With Moreno's injury history of course they need to make sure that position is solidified. Although it seems like he's been working on his durability with his new workout regiment all off season...

Most backs in the NFL have somewhat of a split, so bringing in a committee partner isn't that big of deal. Fact is, Moreno is improving in passing game and should still get half the carries in the regular offense. Sounds like a great value in PPR leagues to me.

I don't know about 4th round picks and don't think you need to buy there. His dynasty market value is what I'm saying he's a good value and it's a lot lower than 4th round type value. I don't play in redrafts unless invited to FBG's best ball thing they have...

I am coming at this from a redraft perspective and his ADP there....and yes I believe that whoever DEN brings in, the mindset will become that that guy may indeed be the primary guy...there may be a spectrum from a guy like Dwilly who would/could very easily relagate Moreno to the bench to someone who is looked at more as a ground and pound with Moreno getting an occasional series and 3rd downs....either way it will limit his production....I live in CO, watched every Bronco game (unfortunately)...here talk from people "in the know" so to speak on the radio....and people like Cecil who have their finger on everything that is Broncos....Moreno is not looked at as "the guy"....Fox may have a different opinion, but I don't think so.....

let's put it this way....there is a very good chance DEN brings in an impact RB...it is almost a given a this point....and Moreno's ADP will drop accordingly....let's revisit this in a week and half and see how all those on the Moreno value train are feeling....my feeling is that your 4th round pick should not be having his playing time questioned now or 6 weeks from now...odds are Moreno is going to be lumped in with the rest of the RBBC guys and his ADP will reflect that (the M. Bush, Goodson, Jacobs, etc)...

the problem is there are only 2 RB's that are better than him in free agency and there will be plenty of competition for those 2 guys.

that is your opinion so I won't argue with you even if I don't agree.....but the mere fact that the front office/coaches etc have indicated that the RB position is something they need to address should have you questioning things.......the talk hasn't been, "we need to find someone to be a solid backup for Moreno"...it has been we need to address the running game and the running back position.....this isn't MIN looking to backup ADP.....they want to upgrade at the RB position....

 

[loose circuits]

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

I cut and pasted that FA list from the tracking thread in the pool....and I guess to me it doesn't really matter a ton....I stand by the thought that if they are going to bring somebody in, it says about all you need to know....and owners may be lucky to get what they got last year out of Moreno.....for the area where he is going, I'll take Dwilly, Jstew (assuming dwilly leaves), or even guys like Fred Jack or Lynch later....at best Moreno is part of a RBBC....with my 4th round pick I want a guy that I am plugging in every week no questions asked....even if I have to go a different position....

so you guys don't see that they may need depth? Signing someone immediately means Moreno is going to lose his job? If they are going to add a RB, he's going to put Moreno on the bench? I just don't see it. I think Fox knows that he can't rely on Buck, Lance Ball, Jeremiah Johnson, or Lendale White as the #2. With Moreno's injury history of course they need to make sure that position is solidified. Although it seems like he's been working on his durability with his new workout regiment all off season...

Most backs in the NFL have somewhat of a split, so bringing in a committee partner isn't that big of deal. Fact is, Moreno is improving in passing game and should still get half the carries in the regular offense. Sounds like a great value in PPR leagues to me.

I don't know about 4th round picks and don't think you need to buy there. His dynasty market value is what I'm saying he's a good value and it's a lot lower than 4th round type value. I don't play in redrafts unless invited to FBG's best ball thing they have...

I am coming at this from a redraft perspective and his ADP there....and yes I believe that whoever DEN brings in, the mindset will become that that guy may indeed be the primary guy...there may be a spectrum from a guy like Dwilly who would/could very easily relagate Moreno to the bench to someone who is looked at more as a ground and pound with Moreno getting an occasional series and 3rd downs....either way it will limit his production....I live in CO, watched every Bronco game (unfortunately)...here talk from people "in the know" so to speak on the radio....and people like Cecil who have their finger on everything that is Broncos....Moreno is not looked at as "the guy"....Fox may have a different opinion, but I don't think so.....

let's put it this way....there is a very good chance DEN brings in an impact RB...it is almost a given a this point....and Moreno's ADP will drop accordingly....let's revisit this in a week and half and see how all those on the Moreno value train are feeling....my feeling is that your 4th round pick should not be having his playing time questioned now or 6 weeks from now...odds are Moreno is going to be lumped in with the rest of the RBBC guys and his ADP will reflect that (the M. Bush, Goodson, Jacobs, etc)...

the problem is there are only 2 RB's that are better than him in free agency and there will be plenty of competition for those 2 guys.

that is your opinion so I won't argue with you even if I don't agree.....but the mere fact that the front office/coaches etc have indicated that the RB position is something they need to address should have you questioning things.......the talk hasn't been, "we need to find someone to be a solid backup for Moreno"...it has been we need to address the running game and the running back position.....this isn't MIN looking to backup ADP.....they want to upgrade at the RB position....

you mean like when the Bears brought in Chester Taylor or the Chiefs brought in Thomas Jones?

 

[baconisgood]

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

I cut and pasted that FA list from the tracking thread in the pool....and I guess to me it doesn't really matter a ton....I stand by the thought that if they are going to bring somebody in, it says about all you need to know....and owners may be lucky to get what they got last year out of Moreno.....for the area where he is going, I'll take Dwilly, Jstew (assuming dwilly leaves), or even guys like Fred Jack or Lynch later....at best Moreno is part of a RBBC....with my 4th round pick I want a guy that I am plugging in every week no questions asked....even if I have to go a different position....

so you guys don't see that they may need depth? Signing someone immediately means Moreno is going to lose his job? If they are going to add a RB, he's going to put Moreno on the bench? I just don't see it. I think Fox knows that he can't rely on Buck, Lance Ball, Jeremiah Johnson, or Lendale White as the #2. With Moreno's injury history of course they need to make sure that position is solidified. Although it seems like he's been working on his durability with his new workout regiment all off season...

Most backs in the NFL have somewhat of a split, so bringing in a committee partner isn't that big of deal. Fact is, Moreno is improving in passing game and should still get half the carries in the regular offense. Sounds like a great value in PPR leagues to me.

I don't know about 4th round picks and don't think you need to buy there. His dynasty market value is what I'm saying he's a good value and it's a lot lower than 4th round type value. I don't play in redrafts unless invited to FBG's best ball thing they have...

I am coming at this from a redraft perspective and his ADP there....and yes I believe that whoever DEN brings in, the mindset will become that that guy may indeed be the primary guy...there may be a spectrum from a guy like Dwilly who would/could very easily relagate Moreno to the bench to someone who is looked at more as a ground and pound with Moreno getting an occasional series and 3rd downs....either way it will limit his production....I live in CO, watched every Bronco game (unfortunately)...here talk from people "in the know" so to speak on the radio....and people like Cecil who have their finger on everything that is Broncos....Moreno is not looked at as "the guy"....Fox may have a different opinion, but I don't think so.....

let's put it this way....there is a very good chance DEN brings in an impact RB...it is almost a given a this point....and Moreno's ADP will drop accordingly....let's revisit this in a week and half and see how all those on the Moreno value train are feeling....my feeling is that your 4th round pick should not be having his playing time questioned now or 6 weeks from now...odds are Moreno is going to be lumped in with the rest of the RBBC guys and his ADP will reflect that (the M. Bush, Goodson, Jacobs, etc)...

the problem is there are only 2 RB's that are better than him in free agency and there will be plenty of competition for those 2 guys.

that is your opinion so I won't argue with you even if I don't agree.....but the mere fact that the front office/coaches etc have indicated that the RB position is something they need to address should have you questioning things.......the talk hasn't been, "we need to find someone to be a solid backup for Moreno"...it has been we need to address the running game and the running back position.....this isn't MIN looking to backup ADP.....they want to upgrade at the RB position....

you mean like when the Bears brought in Chester Taylor or the Chiefs brought in Thomas Jones?

Thomas Jones got more carries than Charles last season- so possibly (and Charles is clearly >>> Moreno)Again the point is that Moreno is one of the most likely backs to lose carries to a FA this off season. I don't thin anyone is saying its a guarantee unless that back is Deangelo but that it has to be weighed into his projections.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

The point is that there are perpetually 2-3 cheap RB options who have produced at the level Moreno did last season on the market every year. Denver (Fox specifically) has said that they intend to add a RB and that RB will probably get a shot. A couple of guys (DeAngelo, Bradshaw) would be huge favorites to take the majority of carries but there are also a couple of guys who could show in camp that they are as good as Moreno and get a 50/50 split.

I cut and pasted that FA list from the tracking thread in the pool....and I guess to me it doesn't really matter a ton....I stand by the thought that if they are going to bring somebody in, it says about all you need to know....and owners may be lucky to get what they got last year out of Moreno.....for the area where he is going, I'll take Dwilly, Jstew (assuming dwilly leaves), or even guys like Fred Jack or Lynch later....at best Moreno is part of a RBBC....with my 4th round pick I want a guy that I am plugging in every week no questions asked....even if I have to go a different position....

so you guys don't see that they may need depth? Signing someone immediately means Moreno is going to lose his job? If they are going to add a RB, he's going to put Moreno on the bench? I just don't see it. I think Fox knows that he can't rely on Buck, Lance Ball, Jeremiah Johnson, or Lendale White as the #2. With Moreno's injury history of course they need to make sure that position is solidified. Although it seems like he's been working on his durability with his new workout regiment all off season...

Most backs in the NFL have somewhat of a split, so bringing in a committee partner isn't that big of deal. Fact is, Moreno is improving in passing game and should still get half the carries in the regular offense. Sounds like a great value in PPR leagues to me.

I don't know about 4th round picks and don't think you need to buy there. His dynasty market value is what I'm saying he's a good value and it's a lot lower than 4th round type value. I don't play in redrafts unless invited to FBG's best ball thing they have...

I am coming at this from a redraft perspective and his ADP there....and yes I believe that whoever DEN brings in, the mindset will become that that guy may indeed be the primary guy...there may be a spectrum from a guy like Dwilly who would/could very easily relagate Moreno to the bench to someone who is looked at more as a ground and pound with Moreno getting an occasional series and 3rd downs....either way it will limit his production....I live in CO, watched every Bronco game (unfortunately)...here talk from people "in the know" so to speak on the radio....and people like Cecil who have their finger on everything that is Broncos....Moreno is not looked at as "the guy"....Fox may have a different opinion, but I don't think so.....

let's put it this way....there is a very good chance DEN brings in an impact RB...it is almost a given a this point....and Moreno's ADP will drop accordingly....let's revisit this in a week and half and see how all those on the Moreno value train are feeling....my feeling is that your 4th round pick should not be having his playing time questioned now or 6 weeks from now...odds are Moreno is going to be lumped in with the rest of the RBBC guys and his ADP will reflect that (the M. Bush, Goodson, Jacobs, etc)...

the problem is there are only 2 RB's that are better than him in free agency and there will be plenty of competition for those 2 guys.

that is your opinion so I won't argue with you even if I don't agree.....but the mere fact that the front office/coaches etc have indicated that the RB position is something they need to address should have you questioning things.......the talk hasn't been, "we need to find someone to be a solid backup for Moreno"...it has been we need to address the running game and the running back position.....this isn't MIN looking to backup ADP.....they want to upgrade at the RB position....

you mean like when the Bears brought in Chester Taylor or the Chiefs brought in Thomas Jones?

nice attempt....but no....

 

[Couch Potato]

I'm with those who think Moreno's days as a feature back are over. The report of him dropping to 200 lbs, if true, pretty much clinches it.

But for those of you who own him and are still hoping, there's always this...

When you wish upon a star

Makes no difference who you are

Anything your heart desires

Will come to you

If your heart is in your dream

No request is too extreme

When you wish upon a star

As dreamers do

 

[moderated]

I'm with those who think Moreno's days as a feature back are over. The report of him dropping to 200 lbs, if true, pretty much clinches it.

I think he might not be a feature rb, but him doing crossfit workouts that made him lose weight doesn't really mean anything, especially since it wasn't the team who was monitoring his workouts during the lockout.He could gain 10-15 lbs easily, and playing at 205ish might actually be better for him as he was widely thought to be out of shape in previous years.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Moreno does not need to be a work horse bell cow running back for him to be fantasy relevant.

He can be successful in a smaller role at the NFL level. He is better than just a 3rd down back but perhaps not true work horse material. But if he was to average 14 to 16 rushes a week and 3 to 5 receptions a week he can carve himself out a nice role in the nfl as well as fantasy.

 

[Mark Wimer]

Moreno does not need to be a work horse bell cow running back for him to be fantasy relevant. He can be successful in a smaller role at the NFL level. He is better than just a 3rd down back but perhaps not true work horse material. But if he was to average 14 to 16 rushes a week and 3 to 5 receptions a week he can carve himself out a nice role in the nfl as well as fantasy.

Sure, IF he can average 15 carries a week and 4 receptions a week, he'll be fantasy relevant! That's ~240 carries + ~64 receptions = 304 touches on the ball. Those ARE starting RB numbers. Last year, these were the backs with 300+ touches on the football: Arian Foster - clear-cut starterRay Rice - clear-cut starterPeyton Hillis - clear-cut starter (2010)Ahmad Bradshaw - in a RBBC with Brandon Jacobs (Jacobs was the junior partner)Steven Jackson - clear-cut starterChris Johnson - clear-cut starterAdrian Peterson - clear-cut starterMaurice Jones-Drew - clear-cut starterCedric Benson - clear-cut starterRashard Mendenhall - clear-cut starterMichael Turner - starter with some 3rd down back action by Jason SnellingOf the junior partners in the list above, Jacobs put up 147/823/9 rushing and 7/59/0, but he is NOT a runner in Moreno's mold - Jacobs is the power back to Bradshaw's dual-threat natureJason Snelling posted 87/324/2 rushing and 44/303/3 as the change of pace back to Turner's bell-cow lead. IMO Snelling-level production is what you'll see from Moreno if DeAngelo Williams (or another solid back) arrives in Denver to be the lead back. Snelling finished 41st among fantasy backs last season, well outside RB3 range. Good enough as desperation filler on a bye week, but not nearly fantasy-starter or even fantasy-flex level. My .02.

 

[zilladog]

According to Rotoworld, the Broncos agreed to terms with undrafted FA Mario Fannin. Rumors swirling of Willis Mcgahee being pursued. I wonder if as soon as it's clear that DWill, Bradshaw and Benson are NOT going to Denver, and they pull in FA's like the guys listed above.....Is there going to be an instant 180 on the Moreno hate? Food for thought.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Moreno does not need to be a work horse bell cow running back for him to be fantasy relevant. He can be successful in a smaller role at the NFL level. He is better than just a 3rd down back but perhaps not true work horse material. But if he was to average 14 to 16 rushes a week and 3 to 5 receptions a week he can carve himself out a nice role in the nfl as well as fantasy.

Sure, IF he can average 15 carries a week and 4 receptions a week, he'll be fantasy relevant! That's ~240 carries + ~64 receptions = 304 touches on the ball. Those ARE starting RB numbers. Last year, these were the backs with 300+ touches on the football: Arian Foster - clear-cut starterRay Rice - clear-cut starterPeyton Hillis - clear-cut starter (2010)Ahmad Bradshaw - in a RBBC with Brandon Jacobs (Jacobs was the junior partner)Steven Jackson - clear-cut starterChris Johnson - clear-cut starterAdrian Peterson - clear-cut starterMaurice Jones-Drew - clear-cut starterCedric Benson - clear-cut starterRashard Mendenhall - clear-cut starterMichael Turner - starter with some 3rd down back action by Jason SnellingOf the junior partners in the list above, Jacobs put up 147/823/9 rushing and 7/59/0, but he is NOT a runner in Moreno's mold - Jacobs is the power back to Bradshaw's dual-threat natureJason Snelling posted 87/324/2 rushing and 44/303/3 as the change of pace back to Turner's bell-cow lead. IMO Snelling-level production is what you'll see from Moreno if DeAngelo Williams (or another solid back) arrives in Denver to be the lead back. Snelling finished 41st among fantasy backs last season, well outside RB3 range. Good enough as desperation filler on a bye week, but not nearly fantasy-starter or even fantasy-flex level. My .02.

those numbers by Carter are starter type numbers.....if you reel those in a little bit you get Moreno back down to the Snellings, Jacobs, etc of the world where Moreno should and will most likely be going when the dust settles.....not where he is currently going with his 4th round status...

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Moreno does not need to be a work horse bell cow running back for him to be fantasy relevant. He can be successful in a smaller role at the NFL level. He is better than just a 3rd down back but perhaps not true work horse material. But if he was to average 14 to 16 rushes a week and 3 to 5 receptions a week he can carve himself out a nice role in the nfl as well as fantasy.

Sure, IF he can average 15 carries a week and 4 receptions a week, he'll be fantasy relevant! That's ~240 carries + ~64 receptions = 304 touches on the ball. Those ARE starting RB numbers. Last year, these were the backs with 300+ touches on the football: Arian Foster - clear-cut starterRay Rice - clear-cut starterPeyton Hillis - clear-cut starter (2010)Ahmad Bradshaw - in a RBBC with Brandon Jacobs (Jacobs was the junior partner)Steven Jackson - clear-cut starterChris Johnson - clear-cut starterAdrian Peterson - clear-cut starterMaurice Jones-Drew - clear-cut starterCedric Benson - clear-cut starterRashard Mendenhall - clear-cut starterMichael Turner - starter with some 3rd down back action by Jason SnellingOf the junior partners in the list above, Jacobs put up 147/823/9 rushing and 7/59/0, but he is NOT a runner in Moreno's mold - Jacobs is the power back to Bradshaw's dual-threat natureJason Snelling posted 87/324/2 rushing and 44/303/3 as the change of pace back to Turner's bell-cow lead. IMO Snelling-level production is what you'll see from Moreno if DeAngelo Williams (or another solid back) arrives in Denver to be the lead back. Snelling finished 41st among fantasy backs last season, well outside RB3 range. Good enough as desperation filler on a bye week, but not nearly fantasy-starter or even fantasy-flex level. My .02.

those numbers by Carter are starter type numbers.....if you reel those in a little bit you get Moreno back down to the Snellings, Jacobs, etc of the world where Moreno should and will most likely be going when the dust settles.....not where he is currently going with his 4th round status...

Last year Moreno averaged 14 rushing attempts per week, and 2.8 receptions per week, so per a 16 game schedule that is 224 rushes and 45 receptions. If he was able to play in all 16 games last year if we go off his averages he would have had 963 yards rushing, and 452 receiving yards with 10 td's. So last year if Moreno played in 16 games he would have put together 1415 total yards and 10 td'sHe was quite effective as both a rusher and receiver last season. Whether he looked the part or not he was not as bad as people here are claiming.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Moreno does not need to be a work horse bell cow running back for him to be fantasy relevant. He can be successful in a smaller role at the NFL level. He is better than just a 3rd down back but perhaps not true work horse material. But if he was to average 14 to 16 rushes a week and 3 to 5 receptions a week he can carve himself out a nice role in the nfl as well as fantasy.

Sure, IF he can average 15 carries a week and 4 receptions a week, he'll be fantasy relevant! That's ~240 carries + ~64 receptions = 304 touches on the ball. Those ARE starting RB numbers. Last year, these were the backs with 300+ touches on the football: Arian Foster - clear-cut starterRay Rice - clear-cut starterPeyton Hillis - clear-cut starter (2010)Ahmad Bradshaw - in a RBBC with Brandon Jacobs (Jacobs was the junior partner)Steven Jackson - clear-cut starterChris Johnson - clear-cut starterAdrian Peterson - clear-cut starterMaurice Jones-Drew - clear-cut starterCedric Benson - clear-cut starterRashard Mendenhall - clear-cut starterMichael Turner - starter with some 3rd down back action by Jason SnellingOf the junior partners in the list above, Jacobs put up 147/823/9 rushing and 7/59/0, but he is NOT a runner in Moreno's mold - Jacobs is the power back to Bradshaw's dual-threat natureJason Snelling posted 87/324/2 rushing and 44/303/3 as the change of pace back to Turner's bell-cow lead. IMO Snelling-level production is what you'll see from Moreno if DeAngelo Williams (or another solid back) arrives in Denver to be the lead back. Snelling finished 41st among fantasy backs last season, well outside RB3 range. Good enough as desperation filler on a bye week, but not nearly fantasy-starter or even fantasy-flex level. My .02.

those numbers by Carter are starter type numbers.....if you reel those in a little bit you get Moreno back down to the Snellings, Jacobs, etc of the world where Moreno should and will most likely be going when the dust settles.....not where he is currently going with his 4th round status...

Last year Moreno averaged 14 rushing attempts per week, and 2.8 receptions per week, so per a 16 game schedule that is 224 rushes and 45 receptions. If he was able to play in all 16 games last year if we go off his averages he would have had 963 yards rushing, and 452 receiving yards with 10 td's. So last year if Moreno played in 16 games he would have put together 1415 total yards and 10 td'sHe was quite effective as both a rusher and receiver last season. Whether he looked the part or not he was not as bad as people here are claiming.

not sure anybody is claiming he is a bad player.....and those numbers would probably be worthy of a 4th round pick......it's just that indications are DEN is looking to revamp the RB position which means you may not see those numbers again....for those in dynasty leagues, you have probably seen the best you are going to get out of him and the window for unloading him for a good return has probably closed....those in redrafts or new dynasty leagues that have drafted already and paid a 4th round price may be very disappointed.....

 

[Faust]

From Greg Cosell on Twitter:

Greg Cosell

Fox run based offense. Must add RB. Tebow must be manipulated to play efficiently. Must improve defense so Tebow's limitations not exposed.

Greg Cosell

Very surprised DEN apparently so anxious to trade Orton. Solid, efficicient play action QB. Bigger issue is RB. Moreno not the answer.

 

[Banger]

More positive Moreno news coming out today:

From National Football Post

*The Broncos believe new coach John Fox could be the key to kick-starting Knowshon Moreno’s career. Fox has a good way of dealing with players, and the hope is he will be able to reach Moreno and challenge him. Moreno’s lack of maturity has been a factor in his underachieving up to this point. The Broncos recognize he has talent (maybe not 12th pick in the draft talent, but he has talent) and value, and aren’t giving up on him yet.

Exactly what I've been saying. Will he ever be the elite RB that owners thought they were getting when they drafted him two years ago? No. But will he still have value? Absolutely. Cecil is going to wind up eating crow here. I really don't understand his hatred of Moreno. For him to say he "doesn't have what it takes to play at this level" is seriously absurd.

People said the same thing last year when my first Denver Post column's headline was 'Orton could throw for 4,000 and 25 TDs'...then he was on pace to throw for 5,000People also said the same thing when I told every fantasy owner under the sun to trade Orton in OCTOBER as Tebow would be starting the final games of the season.

Listen, I don't HATE Moreno I only tell you what I know, what I observe as the person most close to this situation, and what I've heard from guys that have practiced alongside him.

You can listen or not, your choice. Moreno doesn't have what it takes to be a featured back in the pros.

Yes, he's slimmed down but what about his feet? Instincts are sharp, but his feet fail him on most carries. he can see/anticipate a hole but his feet can't keep up with his brain. Running the ball is all about creating space and Moreno fails to do that as an everydown runner.

Can he be a change of pace back? Sure. But his days as a feature back are over. BTW, John Fox said RB was their top priority in free agency just a little over a week ago.

the caliber of back they bring in will tell us exactly what they think of Moreno.

I for one appreciate your viewpoints and listen intently to your thoughts, ESPECIALLY when they conflict with mine. I don't have access, I don't speak to coaches, players, see these guys daily, hear the thoughts and gossip on who's on the rise and the fall. Some FF guys just become too emotional and dug in on positions and they think that thoughts contrary to theirs are attacks on them. I've been playing this game a long time and have learned to check my emotional attachment at the door and try to listen to all viewpoints and then make my decisions. Information is a HUGE key and when someone gives it to you like Cecil does it can be a difference maker.

 

[baconisgood]

From Greg Cosell on Twitter:

Greg Cosell

Fox run based offense. Must add RB. Tebow must be manipulated to play efficiently. Must improve defense so Tebow's limitations not exposed.

Greg Cosell

Very surprised DEN apparently so anxious to trade Orton. Solid, efficicient play action QB. Bigger issue is RB. Moreno not the answer.

The rush to get rid of Orton isn't a rush to get rid of him, its a rush to get something of value back- along the lines of a 2nd rd pick- rather than hold onto him for a year (for 9 million) and then having him walk. The Broncos have a TON of holes, especially on D, and a year of experience starting for Tebow + 2nd rd pick is worth more than Orton for 1 year.

 

[Mark Wimer]

Moreno does not need to be a work horse bell cow running back for him to be fantasy relevant.

He can be successful in a smaller role at the NFL level. He is better than just a 3rd down back but perhaps not true work horse material. But if he was to average 14 to 16 rushes a week and 3 to 5 receptions a week he can carve himself out a nice role in the nfl as well as fantasy.

Sure, IF he can average 15 carries a week and 4 receptions a week, he'll be fantasy relevant! That's ~240 carries + ~64 receptions = 304 touches on the ball. Those ARE starting RB numbers. Last year, these were the backs with 300+ touches on the football:

Arian Foster - clear-cut starter

Ray Rice - clear-cut starter

Peyton Hillis - clear-cut starter (2010)

Ahmad Bradshaw - in a RBBC with Brandon Jacobs (Jacobs was the junior partner)

Steven Jackson - clear-cut starter

Chris Johnson - clear-cut starter

Adrian Peterson - clear-cut starter

Maurice Jones-Drew - clear-cut starter

Cedric Benson - clear-cut starter

Rashard Mendenhall - clear-cut starter

Michael Turner - starter with some 3rd down back action by Jason Snelling

Of the junior partners in the list above, Jacobs put up 147/823/9 rushing and 7/59/0, but he is NOT a runner in Moreno's mold - Jacobs is the power back to Bradshaw's dual-threat nature

Jason Snelling posted 87/324/2 rushing and 44/303/3 as the change of pace back to Turner's bell-cow lead.

IMO Snelling-level production is what you'll see from Moreno if DeAngelo Williams (or another solid back) arrives in Denver to be the lead back. Snelling finished 41st among fantasy backs last season, well outside RB3 range. Good enough as desperation filler on a bye week, but not nearly fantasy-starter or even fantasy-flex level.

My .02.

those numbers by Carter are starter type numbers.....if you reel those in a little bit you get Moreno back down to the Snellings, Jacobs, etc of the world where Moreno should and will most likely be going when the dust settles.....not where he is currently going with his 4th round status...

Last year Moreno averaged 14 rushing attempts per week, and 2.8 receptions per week, so per a 16 game schedule that is 224 rushes and 45 receptions. If he was able to play in all 16 games last year if we go off his averages he would have had 963 yards rushing, and 452 receiving yards with 10 td's. So last year if Moreno played in 16 games he would have put together 1415 total yards and 10 td'sHe was quite effective as both a rusher and receiver last season. Whether he looked the part or not he was not as bad as people here are claiming.

Highlighted the problems with the above analysis of Moreno. It is hypothetical in the extreme to project a full season of production from a fragile back who can't/doesn't play through pain. Additionally, last year he was atop the depth chart. This year it looks like Denver is determined to put him in a RBBC at best, and probably to slot him as a change-of-pace back. Again, we'll know more once free agency is finalized. I'd be shocked to see Denver go forward with Moreno as their top back.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Moreno does not need to be a work horse bell cow running back for him to be fantasy relevant.

He can be successful in a smaller role at the NFL level. He is better than just a 3rd down back but perhaps not true work horse material. But if he was to average 14 to 16 rushes a week and 3 to 5 receptions a week he can carve himself out a nice role in the nfl as well as fantasy.

Sure, IF he can average 15 carries a week and 4 receptions a week, he'll be fantasy relevant! That's ~240 carries + ~64 receptions = 304 touches on the ball. Those ARE starting RB numbers. Last year, these were the backs with 300+ touches on the football:

Arian Foster - clear-cut starter

Ray Rice - clear-cut starter

Peyton Hillis - clear-cut starter (2010)

Ahmad Bradshaw - in a RBBC with Brandon Jacobs (Jacobs was the junior partner)

Steven Jackson - clear-cut starter

Chris Johnson - clear-cut starter

Adrian Peterson - clear-cut starter

Maurice Jones-Drew - clear-cut starter

Cedric Benson - clear-cut starter

Rashard Mendenhall - clear-cut starter

Michael Turner - starter with some 3rd down back action by Jason Snelling

Of the junior partners in the list above, Jacobs put up 147/823/9 rushing and 7/59/0, but he is NOT a runner in Moreno's mold - Jacobs is the power back to Bradshaw's dual-threat nature

Jason Snelling posted 87/324/2 rushing and 44/303/3 as the change of pace back to Turner's bell-cow lead.

IMO Snelling-level production is what you'll see from Moreno if DeAngelo Williams (or another solid back) arrives in Denver to be the lead back. Snelling finished 41st among fantasy backs last season, well outside RB3 range. Good enough as desperation filler on a bye week, but not nearly fantasy-starter or even fantasy-flex level.

My .02.

those numbers by Carter are starter type numbers.....if you reel those in a little bit you get Moreno back down to the Snellings, Jacobs, etc of the world where Moreno should and will most likely be going when the dust settles.....not where he is currently going with his 4th round status...

Last year Moreno averaged 14 rushing attempts per week, and 2.8 receptions per week, so per a 16 game schedule that is 224 rushes and 45 receptions. If he was able to play in all 16 games last year if we go off his averages he would have had 963 yards rushing, and 452 receiving yards with 10 td's. So last year if Moreno played in 16 games he would have put together 1415 total yards and 10 td'sHe was quite effective as both a rusher and receiver last season. Whether he looked the part or not he was not as bad as people here are claiming.

Highlighted the problems with the above analysis of Moreno. It is hypothetical in the extreme to project a full season of production from a fragile back who can't/doesn't play through pain. Additionally, last year he was atop the depth chart. This year it looks like Denver is determined to put him in a RBBC at best, and probably to slot him as a change-of-pace back. Again, we'll know more once free agency is finalized. I'd be shocked to see Denver go forward with Moreno as their top back.

Thanks, I respect your opinion and view point. I am cautiously optimistic I guess that Moreno can finally put a season together, and prove that he is a descent player.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Whatever happened to the FBG's "Eliminate the Suck" banner. You know, the one with that constipated dude's face? They could replace his face with Moreno's for this years banner.

 

[Warpig]

Now that Denver has added Fannin (Jamal Lewis clone?), how has that changed the landscape? I don't know much about Fannin, but his measurables are eye-popping...5'10", 230 lbs, 4.3 forty time? Wow! The thing I read that I liked, he was part of a 3-man rotation at RB in college. He can also catch the ball. So he not only doesn't have much wear and tear on him, he has 3-down back potential. Me likes. John Fox LOVES to run the rock too. Does anyone else see potential here for a future bell-cow?

 

[psufans2]

Now that Denver has added Fannin (Jamal Lewis clone?), how has that changed the landscape? I don't know much about Fannin, but his measurables are eye-popping...5'10", 230 lbs, 4.3 forty time? Wow! The thing I read that I liked, he was part of a 3-man rotation at RB in college. He can also catch the ball. So he not only doesn't have much wear and tear on him, he has 3-down back potential. Me likes. John Fox LOVES to run the rock too. Does anyone else see potential here for a future bell-cow?

It doesnt really effect anything as of yet he was undrafted for a reason. He could become a solid rb but for now I do not think that hurts Moreno.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

So far with one major road bump out of the way, to answer the original OP it is looking more and more like yes the Moreno hate had gone too far.

 

[r3t2]

if he had been a 4th round pick two years ago people would be touting him as a possible breakout candidate. he improved from 3.8 to 4.3 ypc and had 10 yds per reception last year, both good numbers, and has a good td rate. Lammey is leading that charge and it feels biased IMO. if you were trying to build a winning team, had several needs, and didn't have a huge budget, would you blow a lot of cash on a RB? especially when you have a guy who's getting better and so many decent options available in free agency or for trade? i think the moreno hate is at ridiculous levels and am looking to buy anywhere his stock is low.

why does it seem biased? I cover the Broncos and the NFL, but am a Steelers fan. I've seen every training camp practice, media portion of practice, and from my observations we're watching a change of pace back try to fit into a feature back role.

losing weight for an injury prone back isn't a smart move IMHO. Will be interesting to see him up close at camp once again, and of course I'll let you know the latest UNBIASED from the sidelines at Dove Valley.

maybe i should have written unbalanced instead of biased. it seems that more of your evaluation on moreno is subjective versus other players in the league. when this kind of stuff contradicts everything i heard about him coming out of school (hard worker, leader, heart of the team), and also how i believe you evaluated him, though i could be wrong, then i tend to be skeptical that he went mr hyde on everyone in 2 years.

i love the audible and never miss an episode, and i also expect you guys to take strong positions, because that's what we pay for at FBGs. i also realize that everyone on the site will be wrong a lot simply because they take positions on SO many players. but your perspective on moreno seems to be "he cannot play and will be irrelevant soon." for a guy whose numbers suggest he is improving, i guess i would like to see an account of why he made huge statistical strides while being so awful. i watched him play once or twice and thought he looked pretty good. not transcendent of course, but certainly as good as a lot of RBs who have had very successful FF seasons.

 

[De Novo]

I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries

This is crazy talk. DeAngelo Williams is a proven, highly productive NFL back. Moreno is a never-has-been.

Statistically speaking for Williams-2006 as a rookie had a very unproductive year missing 3 games-2007 an ok year but not even combining for 1000 total yards playing in all 16 games-2008 elite year playing in all 16 games-2009 above average year but missed 3 games -2010 unproductive year missing 10 gamesSo Williams at 28 years of age turning 29 this year, has missed 16 of 80 games, has only had more than 216 rushing attempts once in his career, has had 1 elite year, but many give him far too much credit for having an all around average NFL career thus far. Now if Williams was to go to Denver I would not say that Moreno would recieve 70 percent of the carries, but I don't think it is a stretch to think Moreno could be every bit as good as Williams in a time share role and even edging him out for a bigger piece of the pie.

Here's the difference. If you ignore the statistics, and just watch them play, you know Williams is better. He's a threat to take it to the house on every play. Moreno is lucky to break off a 20 yarder. Williams could fall twice in the backfield and break off a 20 yarder. That's the difference.

Is it? If you watch Felix Jones and Michael Turner play, Jones is a threat to take it to the house on every play and Turner isn't. Are you saying Felix has been better than Turner?

Oh, come on. You're trying to compare Felix Jones and Michael Turner?Moreno and Williams are similar sized runners, which is why I felt a comparison was appropriate. Moreno isn't a power runner. He doesn't have out-of-this-world vision. His decision-making isn't the best. So, given all that, the only way he can be elite is if he can take it to the house. Unfortunately, he doesn't have that speed. I'm not saying he won't be a productive runner (I think he can be), but right now, he's nowhere near DeAngelo Williams.

 

[Lash]

Now that Denver has added Fannin (Jamal Lewis clone?), how has that changed the landscape? I don't know much about Fannin, but his measurables are eye-popping...5'10", 230 lbs, 4.3 forty time? Wow! The thing I read that I liked, he was part of a 3-man rotation at RB in college. He can also catch the ball. So he not only doesn't have much wear and tear on him, he has 3-down back potential. Me likes. John Fox LOVES to run the rock too. Does anyone else see potential here for a future bell-cow?

1) 5'10" 230, solid BMI, 2) 4.3 forty,

3) SEC pedigree,

4) little wear and tear,

5) undrafted



which of the above matters most

 

[Lash]

wow i sold low

nothing on these boards the last 3 months even screamed HOLD much less BUY LOW it was HURRY UP AND SELL SELL SELL

should played contrarion like i usually do but there are so many denver insiders on here who showed real hatred in their words that i was converted

 

[DaMenace18]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

 

[moderated]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

255 carries/1115 yards47 rec/350 yards8 total td'sThat still leaves a bunch of carries for the other backups, fox runs the ball a lot.

 

[DaMenace18]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

255 carries/1115 yards47 rec/350 yards8 total td'sThat still leaves a bunch of carries for the other backups, fox runs the ball a lot.

Well based off of those projections he's a strong number 2 RB.

 

[moderated]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

255 carries/1115 yards47 rec/350 yards8 total td'sThat still leaves a bunch of carries for the other backups, fox runs the ball a lot.

Well based off of those projections he's a strong number 2 RB.

Yes with some upside. There isn't any competition for the starting job, it's Moreno's in an offense that will run the ball a ton.

 

[DaMenace18]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

255 carries/1115 yards47 rec/350 yards8 total td'sThat still leaves a bunch of carries for the other backups, fox runs the ball a lot.

Well based off of those projections he's a strong number 2 RB.

Yes with some upside. There isn't any competition for the starting job, it's Moreno's in an offense that will run the ball a ton.

You don't believe Willis will vulture a few tds away, keeping Moreno in that 5 range?

 

[LHUCKS]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

255 carries/1115 yards47 rec/350 yards8 total td'sThat still leaves a bunch of carries for the other backups, fox runs the ball a lot.

I'm just under this on total yards.I love how the guppies bail on a young RB after two years, particularly when he average 4.3 YPC in year two...which is pretty damn good.Value City

 

[moderated]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

255 carries/1115 yards47 rec/350 yards8 total td'sThat still leaves a bunch of carries for the other backups, fox runs the ball a lot.

Well based off of those projections he's a strong number 2 RB.

Yes with some upside. There isn't any competition for the starting job, it's Moreno's in an offense that will run the ball a ton.

You don't believe Willis will vulture a few tds away, keeping Moreno in that 5 range?

Mcgahee will vulture td's. I'm only giving Moreno 8 total, 6 rushing/ 2 receiving. That isn't a lot and probably a lowball.

 

[moderated]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

255 carries/1115 yards47 rec/350 yards8 total td'sThat still leaves a bunch of carries for the other backups, fox runs the ball a lot.

I'm just under this on total yards.I love how the guppies bail on a young RB after two years, particularly when he average 4.3 YPC in year two...which is pretty damn good.Value City

Yup, if Moreno didn't have an injury at the end of the season and would have continued his mid season rush the board would love him.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

255 carries/1115 yards47 rec/350 yards8 total td'sThat still leaves a bunch of carries for the other backups, fox runs the ball a lot.

I'm just under this on total yards.I love how the guppies bail on a young RB after two years, particularly when he average 4.3 YPC in year two...which is pretty damn good.Value City

Listen guppy, the league is littered with RB busts who averaged 4.3 YPC in their second year. And you are conveniently forgetting he only averaged 3.8 YPC on 247 carries his rookie year - outside of LT there's not a great track record on those either.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

What's everyone's outlook of Moreno now that they didn't get D-Low and instead got McGahee?

255 carries/1115 yards47 rec/350 yards8 total td'sThat still leaves a bunch of carries for the other backups, fox runs the ball a lot.

I'm just under this on total yards.I love how the guppies bail on a young RB after two years, particularly when he average 4.3 YPC in year two...which is pretty damn good.Value City

Yup, if Moreno didn't have an injury at the end of the season and would have continued his mid season rush the board would love him.

I'm not a big fan of this, but outside of his big game against KC he averaged 3.9 YPC. Not horrible but don't pretend he was setting the league on fire.

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

I'm not a big fan of this, but outside of his big game against KC he averaged 3.9 YPC. Not horrible but don't pretend he was setting the league on fire.

I'm not a big fan of his either, but if you selectively take out his worst game instead of his best game, he averaged 4.61 ypc. Not exactly setting the world on fire, but quite a bit farther from horrible.In 7 of 10 games with over 10 carries he averaged 4 ypc or better, that doesn't suck.

 

[baconisgood]

I'm not a big fan of this, but outside of his big game against KC he averaged 3.9 YPC. Not horrible but don't pretend he was setting the league on fire.

I'm not a big fan of his either, but if you selectively take out his worst game instead of his best game, he averaged 4.61 ypc. Not exactly setting the world on fire, but quite a bit farther from horrible.In 7 of 10 games with over 10 carries he averaged 4 ypc or better, that doesn't suck.

I generally try to avoid the whole "take out this or that game and see what happens" as obviously dropping the very best or very worst game will impact a huge amount in a 16 games season but something is bugging me about Moreno.In 4 games vs KC he has 515 total yards from scrimmage and 5 TDs. Both of his 100 yard rushing games have come against KC and 2/3 multi TD games. Now in 2009 this makes some sense as KC was at the bottom of rush D but 2010 they were middle of the pack and that is when he got a lot of his yards. this bothers me since it just takes one coach watching film and going "duh, thats why Den ran all over us those games" and he loses 4 out of his top 5 games.

 

[loose circuits]

Knowshon Moreno is the "healthiest, fittest, and fastest" he's ever looked as an NFL player at Broncos camp.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18631360?source=pkg