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Knowson Moreno late round gold? (1 Viewer)

ponchsox

Footballguy
The Associated Press suggests Knowshon Moreno "could very well end up getting significant snaps" if Montee Ball and Ronnie Hillman continue to make errors in camp and preseason games.

Hillman lost a goal-line fumble in the second preseason game that "infuriated" OC Adam Gase, and has been completely ineffective as a ball carrier. Ball has been the better runner, but got Peyton Manning slammed with a blown blitz pickup. Gase praised Moreno's leadership and "ability in pass protection to explain some things" to the younger backs. Moreno is very much worth a late-round fantasy flier. He could have a bigger role than most think.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
I agree. And Fox is no stranger to going with the tried and true vet over the "more talented" young players.

 

Touchdown There

Footballguy
I checked Moreno's contract and think he is prime trade bait for the Broncos because of how cheap his contract is:

8/7/2009: Signed a five-year, $16.7 million contract. The deal contains $13.125 million guaranteed, including a second-year roster bonus of $3.775 million. Another $6.3 million is available through incentives. The Broncos can exercise an option year in 2014 by paying Moreno $5.08 million. 2013: $1.7 million, 2014: $1.31 million (Club Option), 2015: Free Agent

Word on the street is that Moreno liked to party it up in the clubs. I don't think he had the proper focus at the same time he had nagging injuries. There will not be enough to go around with Hillman, Ball and Moreno on a passing offense.

 

Buffaloes

Footballguy
the Broncos aren't going to trade Moreno right now when he's their only reliable pass-blocking RB and their best pass-catching RB.

and I agree that he'll have a role to begin the year

 
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Shutout

Footballguy
Well, one thing we know is he was last year (Gold down the stretch) regardless of where you got him.

A lot of people will try to cipher a division of work and say there isn't enough pie to go around and will draw a conclusion that Moreno is the guy left out but, like the write up says, if one guy can't hold onto the ball and one guy can't keep that semi-valuable QB they have from getting drilled, then the guy that can do both might just get a shot.

Definitely worth watching.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
My concern with Moreno is the coaching staff and management has gone out of their way to NOT give Moreno a bigger role. Each year since he was drafted, the Broncos have added a big piece to the RB stable. And seemingly he always starts the year at the back of the back and/or gets banged up. Sure, at the end of the past couple of years he ended up playing a big role out of necessity, but he rarely is considered at the front of the back. That tells me that the powers that be don't really want him to play a featured role.

 

Shutout

Footballguy
My concern with Moreno is the coaching staff and management has gone out of their way to NOT give Moreno a bigger role. Each year since he was drafted, the Broncos have added a big piece to the RB stable. And seemingly he always starts the year at the back of the back and/or gets banged up. Sure, at the end of the past couple of years he ended up playing a big role out of necessity, but he rarely is considered at the front of the back. That tells me that the powers that be don't really want him to play a featured role.
True but at the end of the day, the bottom line is when he plays in fantasy, he hovers as a top 10-12RB. The Broncos may not WANT to play him but if they do, he still gets his owners FF points and at some point you have to ask yourself how much can/will the Broncos tolerate getting Manning blown up or turning the ball over?

I think they know what they have in Moreno. They know he can help them but they just can't satisfy that itch to be that team that looks like "we can grind you into the ground at the end of games with a ferocious back." Ok, that's fine but if you don't have it, you don't have it and right now the Broncos don't have a guy they can trust.

 

Rhythmdoctor

Footballguy
I dismissed this notion two weeks ago but I'm starting to warm up to the fact that Moreno (based on last season's production) is the best RB on the Bronco roster. 2 weeks ago I was drafting Hillman in many drafts in the teen rounds. Last week I began avoiding Hillman and taking Moreno in the last round. Depending on this weekend's game, I may continue this strategy with my live drafts next weekend.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
My concern with Moreno is the coaching staff and management has gone out of their way to NOT give Moreno a bigger role. Each year since he was drafted, the Broncos have added a big piece to the RB stable. And seemingly he always starts the year at the back of the back and/or gets banged up. Sure, at the end of the past couple of years he ended up playing a big role out of necessity, but he rarely is considered at the front of the back. That tells me that the powers that be don't really want him to play a featured role.
True but at the end of the day, the bottom line is when he plays in fantasy, he hovers as a top 10-12RB. The Broncos may not WANT to play him but if they do, he still gets his owners FF points and at some point you have to ask yourself how much can/will the Broncos tolerate getting Manning blown up or turning the ball over?

I think they know what they have in Moreno. They know he can help them but they just can't satisfy that itch to be that team that looks like "we can grind you into the ground at the end of games with a ferocious back." Ok, that's fine but if you don't have it, you don't have it and right now the Broncos don't have a guy they can trust.
But the same holds true with any other back that plays for DEN, so it's not like there is a decided advantage in Moreno. Bottom line, whoever is the majority stakeholder in the DEN running game is in RB1 territory. The Broncos have already shown extreme reluctance to use Moreno by choice and have used him as a last resort. They've added backs every season, which certainly should not be viewed as a vote of confidence in Moreno.

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
Moreno has never lived up to his 1st round selection. He's been, well, meh. Not terrible. Not good. Pretty mediocre.

Joseph Addai was pretty mediocre as a RB. But he could block and catch a Manning dump off. That guy was a beast in PPR.

 

JFS171

Footballguy
My concern with Moreno is the coaching staff and management has gone out of their way to NOT give Moreno a bigger role. Each year since he was drafted, the Broncos have added a big piece to the RB stable. And seemingly he always starts the year at the back of the back and/or gets banged up. Sure, at the end of the past couple of years he ended up playing a big role out of necessity, but he rarely is considered at the front of the back. That tells me that the powers that be don't really want him to play a featured role.
True but at the end of the day, the bottom line is when he plays in fantasy, he hovers as a top 10-12RB. The Broncos may not WANT to play him but if they do, he still gets his owners FF points and at some point you have to ask yourself how much can/will the Broncos tolerate getting Manning blown up or turning the ball over?

I think they know what they have in Moreno. They know he can help them but they just can't satisfy that itch to be that team that looks like "we can grind you into the ground at the end of games with a ferocious back." Ok, that's fine but if you don't have it, you don't have it and right now the Broncos don't have a guy they can trust.
I think you nailed it right here, and I think people are criminally underrating him. He was banged up in the second game and didn't play, and he started the off-season slow due to recovery from the knee scope. But let's be honest here... Hillman looks TINY to me, and it's even more apparent when you consider he was playing last year in the 180s. I don't care what his current weight is - no guarantee he keeps it on, and he still looks very, very little. Not to mention, the team has consistently said he was a change-of-pace guy, Fox's comments about him having the potential to be a lead guy notwithstanding.

Hillman's fumbling and hasn't had success in the games thus far. Ball, IMO, has never looked special. I think he was primarily a product of that Wisconsin system, and the measurables don't support a wow-type back. Then you top that with the cardinal sin of nearly getting Manning killed in pass-pro... well... tough to carve out a role like that.

Moreno is nothing special. He's not flashy, and he's not the sexy name. But he will keep Manning upright, and while they may want to win games down the stretch by pounding teams into submission, we ALL know they're going to get leads and sustain leads with Manning's right arm. Moreno is the best bet to keep that right arm functioning, and he's solid enough running the ball and an excellent receiver. I've thought from the beginning he was a late-career Joseph Addai re-incarnated in this system. Addai wasn't flashy, didn't have great per-attempt stats, etc. But he could pass pro, catch the ball out of the backfield, and didn't turn it over.

The first two weeks allowed them to evaluate Ball and Hillman. The fact that neither one grabbed the job and ran with it, and now Knowshon is taking reps with the starters, speaks volumes IMO.

 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
While I agree that the Bronco's seem to be trying to replace Moreno, I would not say that is because they do not like him. John Fox praised Moreno for working hard during the time when he was inactive and keeping himself ready to play when called on.

My concern about Moreno is that his injury may have robbed him of some of his former speed/talent. Which that talent may not have been high enough for him to afford losing a step. He is now closer to 2 years removed from the injury now, so it is possible he could return to pre-injury form, but I am concerned that he won't.

According to TC reports Moreno has put on some more bulk and has made himself a bigger RB. Which looking at John Fox's history seems to be what he prefers, a bigger RB who can move the pile even if the blocking is poor.

I really do not expect much but Moreno seems likely to play a lot of snaps for his pass protection abilities. This won't really help you for FF but it something to bear in mind when looking at the upside potential of the other Denver RBs.

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
My concern with Moreno is the coaching staff and management has gone out of their way to NOT give Moreno a bigger role. Each year since he was drafted, the Broncos have added a big piece to the RB stable. And seemingly he always starts the year at the back of the back and/or gets banged up. Sure, at the end of the past couple of years he ended up playing a big role out of necessity, but he rarely is considered at the front of the back. That tells me that the powers that be don't really want him to play a featured role.
True but at the end of the day, the bottom line is when he plays in fantasy, he hovers as a top 10-12RB. The Broncos may not WANT to play him but if they do, he still gets his owners FF points and at some point you have to ask yourself how much can/will the Broncos tolerate getting Manning blown up or turning the ball over?

I think they know what they have in Moreno. They know he can help them but they just can't satisfy that itch to be that team that looks like "we can grind you into the ground at the end of games with a ferocious back." Ok, that's fine but if you don't have it, you don't have it and right now the Broncos don't have a guy they can trust.
I really don't see them ever doing that while Manning is there. The guy wants to set records and keep them. He's not going to be handing off through the fourth quarter to grind the clock down. They will call in a run, Manning will see a CB with his tongue hanging out, audible and throw. He will continue to carve up teams, not grind it out. It's against his nature...

 

tjnc09

Footballguy
Moreno has also been praised as a good pass blocker. I think the situation before last year has changed a lot with Peyton there. This is as important as any rushing stat and he is clearly the best pass blocker of the three.

For as late as he is going this year despite finishing 2012 strong, he is absolutely worth a spot.

 

Chaka

Footballguy
Moreno has never lived up to his 1st round selection. He's been, well, meh. Not terrible. Not good. Pretty mediocre.

Joseph Addai was pretty mediocre as a RB. But he could block and catch a Manning dump off. That guy was a beast in PPR.
I like the Addai comparison.

 

ShaHBucks

Footballguy
I've only been saying this since May. I wouldnt be shocked if Moreno is the week 1 starter and doesn't give up the job for awhile.

 
Moreno last year got his yardage because of pure volume. It took him 30 touches to get 100 yards and he was pretty much the only one getting carries. Definitely worth a flier late in the draft, especially if the other two are as reliable as the coaches would like. If he doesn't pan out, fine. If he has a great game or two right away, good trade bait or hold and play.

 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
I've only been saying this since May. I wouldnt be shocked if Moreno is the week 1 starter and doesn't give up the job for awhile.
Don't over reach too much patting yourself on the back here.

I actually liked CJ Anderson more as a possible darkhorse RB to emerge from this pack if he would have not gotten injured. I still like him, maybe he will get a shot later on (still has to make the team).

Anything more than a flyer on any of these guys is over paying. This situation is pyrite.

 

xenon

Footballguy
I am sorry to hear this news as I was drafting him late all day long as my #4.....I hope I don't have to reach for him now. If I recall, he was pretty solid late year.

 
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Adam Harstad

Moderator
I've only been saying this since May. I wouldnt be shocked if Moreno is the week 1 starter and doesn't give up the job for awhile.
Don't over reach too much patting yourself on the back here.

I actually liked CJ Anderson more as a possible darkhorse RB to emerge from this pack if he would have not gotten injured. I still like him, maybe he will get a shot later on (still has to make the team).

Anything more than a flyer on any of these guys is over paying. This situation is pyrite.
If Ball and Hillman both falter, I think Anderson might wind up being the play. He'd been steadily climbing the depth chart prior to his injury.

 

Just Win Baby

Footballguy
My concern with Moreno is the coaching staff and management has gone out of their way to NOT give Moreno a bigger role. Each year since he was drafted, the Broncos have added a big piece to the RB stable. And seemingly he always starts the year at the back of the back and/or gets banged up. Sure, at the end of the past couple of years he ended up playing a big role out of necessity, but he rarely is considered at the front of the back. That tells me that the powers that be don't really want him to play a featured role.
True but at the end of the day, the bottom line is when he plays in fantasy, he hovers as a top 10-12RB. The Broncos may not WANT to play him but if they do, he still gets his owners FF points and at some point you have to ask yourself how much can/will the Broncos tolerate getting Manning blown up or turning the ball over?

I think they know what they have in Moreno. They know he can help them but they just can't satisfy that itch to be that team that looks like "we can grind you into the ground at the end of games with a ferocious back." Ok, that's fine but if you don't have it, you don't have it and right now the Broncos don't have a guy they can trust.
But the same holds true with any other back that plays for DEN, so it's not like there is a decided advantage in Moreno. Bottom line, whoever is the majority stakeholder in the DEN running game is in RB1 territory. The Broncos have already shown extreme reluctance to use Moreno by choice and have used him as a last resort. They've added backs every season, which certainly should not be viewed as a vote of confidence in Moreno.
It may not be a vote of confidence for Moreno, but the fact remains that he is the best pass blocking and receiving RB on the team. That is very important in Peyton Manning's offense, which means he should play a lot. Many of us were saying months ago that Moreno was likely to end up being the best fantasy RB on the Broncos, for exactly these reasons.

 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
Here are the games Moreno played after being re-activated following McGahee being injured-

KC 20 85 4.25ypc 0 4 26 - strong start. Seems healthy enough now. He was terrible when he played 1st 2 weeks of last season. But he likely wasn't fully recovered from his ACL injury then.

TB 20 69 3.45ypc 0 4 14 - not quite as good as the 1st week. 4 catches in PPR still = 40yds.

Raiders 32 119 3.72ypc 1TD 4 48 - 36 total touches in this game. If he wasn't healthy why give him the ball this much? 3 games in a row with 4 catches is pretty consistent.

Ravens 21 115 5.48ypc 1TD 2 8 - best game/touch of the year. The heavy workload previous week does not seem to have harmed him.

Browns 22 78 3.55ypc 0 5 49 - This is good run defense. He did well in passing game.

KC 15 44 2.93 1TD 1 10 - This game he may have been used less to rest him for the playoffs. Not a good game for him.

Playoffs Ravens 10 3.2ypc 32 0 2 - Moreno was injured so only played the 1st half or so before that. He has had to recover from that injury (maybe related to his previous injury? not sure) this off season as well.

I do think the drop in performance is a concern. He played so well against the Ravens in the regular season. It makes it hard for me to know if he was fully recovered from his injury or not. Seems like it but then his performance as a runner went south for 3 games in a row. Why?

Any of the Denver RB could be useful players if they get the hot hand. I just don't think any of the Denver RB should be valued over good handcuff type players, who could also be very useful by getting the hot hand.

I don't see Moreno getting this many touches as long as the other 2 RB are healthy. Seems like a 3 way split if all are healthy to me. Which makes the handcuff players such as Ben Tate more appealing or at least similar level of value. Tate may get similar workloads to these guys even with Foster healthy. With more upside than these players have if Foster cannot play. These RB would still have another RB or 2 to split with, whereas the Texans are more likely to give most of the work to Tate in that situation.
 

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