KO Moreno -- Best total package back since Faulk IMO (1 Viewer)

[kremenull]

1. Lateral Quickness.......Peterson >>> Moreno...by a mile2. Balance.........Peterson = Moreno3. Vision.........Peterson > Moreno

I think Moreno is pretty overrated in general, but I also think you're off here. Peterson is shifty and nimble for his size, but Moreno has a superior combination of lateral quickness and balance. As far as vision goes, Peterson could've been half-blind and produce in the situations he's been in. Moreno has exceptional vision and has proven over and over that he can get yards when there's little there in large part due to said vision.

"All-Day" has been lucky to-date, yep....Gaping holes every time, yep. It's funny how, with that same line, Chester didn't rush for 300 yds in a game nor break off some of the most sensational runs you'll ever see.....go ask a Bear fan if Peterson doesn't have some of the greatest vision AND lateral quickness in the game.....I'll allow Moreno to step onto the field first, then if he is one of the greats, then I'll give him his props. But I know one thing, he isn't a sure thing as was Peterson entering the league....

 

[Tau837]

Denver is QB challenged? Orton was the same QB for Matt Forte who had 1700 total yards and 12 TDs. The Denver line is better then the Chicago line, and the Denver receiving corp is better then Chicago. I have no doubt that the 2009 Denver offense will be a better situation for a RB, then the 2008 Chicago offense.I also keep reading on these boards that McDaniels loves a RBBC. McDaniels never had a #1 RB to go to when he was in NE. The last guy NE had was Corey Dillon and when they had him they used him like a #1. Then they drafted Maroney to replace Dillon, and he just wasn't good enough to be the #1. I mean seriously, last year in NE they had Sammy Morris, Kevin Faulk and Lamont Jordan. The year before they had Maroney, Morris and Faulk. Who are you really going to give the ball to 250-300 times. He ran a RBBC out of personnel necessity, not philosophy. Somebody on here wrote that McDaniels loves RBBC and everyone on here just went with it.

 

[Biabreakable]

Somebody on here wrote that McDaniels loves RBBC and everyone on here just went with it.

I didn't http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...50&start=50I think people being concerned about RBBC shouldn't be concerned. Moreno is a complete player. Blocks well and is a good reciever. There is no reason and I think little chance the other RB on the roster get close to the slice that he does. That they drafted Quinn in the 2nd round is telling also. They are commited to running the ball.

With Orton at the helm I see this offense as targeting 450-500 rushing attempts this season. There are carries in this offense for more than one RB but Moreno is going to get a big chunk of them.

There are a lot of people around here and elsewhere very high on Moreno. I am not sure where you get that impression.

 

[kremenull]

OK! Then if you have seen them, I just don't see how that assertion is made. Let's just start with the most recent guy I mentioned. Adrian Peterson. Here's how I view it in a head-2-head- comparison.....as you'll see, IMO, it's not really that close using your 6-tool classification + some other key ingredients that I believe is often a big help towards greatness when combined with all the other vital traits and intangibles1. Lateral Quickness.......Peterson >>> Moreno...by a mile2. Balance.........Peterson = Moreno3. Vision.........Peterson > Moreno4. Burst (aka Acceleration)......Peterson >>>> Moreno......by two miles5. Strength........Peterson > Moreno6. Long Speed......Peterson >>>>> Moreno.....by 3.5 miles7. Toughness......Peterson = Moreno.....much harder to judge this one at this time, but I'd still say it's a push8. Receiving & Pass-blocking.......Moreno >> Peterson....big edge given to the rookBut each person views things through different lenses, I guess....Nice debate, and I see that some guys truly have their favorites and if you believe in Moreno that much to stand by your assessment, then I give much respect for that as it is definitely a strong assertion.....

I'm one of the biggest Peterson fans you'll find, but Moreno has better vision and instincts than Peterson. That's not to put them anywhere near on the same level, as the advantage in Peterson's athletic ability and strength is much larger than Moreno's advantage in vision/instincts, but I will say that Moreno has some of the best vision out there.

Better vision/instincts?? I don't think so...Tell me this then.....Why does Peterson hit the hole (and some of the holes are really tight) so hard and decisively? Do you think it's because the play is simply drawn up to hit this hole or that hole and he just runs straight to it? It's called vision and instincts, that's the reason he hits it up in there and sees things develop, then pops out of the other side so quickly. His athleticism is enhanced by his vision and instincts. McFadden has athleticism, but right now he's nowhere near the top level guys in vision and instincts. It is just not accurate to state that a guy who isn't even in the NFL has better vision/instincts than a guy who is showing everyone what vision/instincts is all about and is at the top of the pile right now. We're talking elite vision/instincts in Peterson, Moreno can only hope to match it......he certainly won't be better at it

 

[Snotbubbles]

Somebody on here wrote that McDaniels loves RBBC and everyone on here just went with it.

I didn't http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...50&start=50I think people being concerned about RBBC shouldn't be concerned. Moreno is a complete player. Blocks well and is a good reciever. There is no reason and I think little chance the other RB on the roster get close to the slice that he does. That they drafted Quinn in the 2nd round is telling also. They are commited to running the ball.

With Orton at the helm I see this offense as targeting 450-500 rushing attempts this season. There are carries in this offense for more than one RB but Moreno is going to get a big chunk of them.

There are a lot of people around here and elsewhere very high on Moreno. I am not sure where you get that impression.

When I said everyone, I didn't mean for it to be a literal interpretation.

 

[Snotbubbles]

OK! Then if you have seen them, I just don't see how that assertion is made. Let's just start with the most recent guy I mentioned. Adrian Peterson. Here's how I view it in a head-2-head- comparison.....as you'll see, IMO, it's not really that close using your 6-tool classification + some other key ingredients that I believe is often a big help towards greatness when combined with all the other vital traits and intangibles1. Lateral Quickness.......Peterson >>> Moreno...by a mile2. Balance.........Peterson = Moreno3. Vision.........Peterson > Moreno4. Burst (aka Acceleration)......Peterson >>>> Moreno......by two miles5. Strength........Peterson > Moreno6. Long Speed......Peterson >>>>> Moreno.....by 3.5 miles7. Toughness......Peterson = Moreno.....much harder to judge this one at this time, but I'd still say it's a push8. Receiving & Pass-blocking.......Moreno >> Peterson....big edge given to the rookBut each person views things through different lenses, I guess....Nice debate, and I see that some guys truly have their favorites and if you believe in Moreno that much to stand by your assessment, then I give much respect for that as it is definitely a strong assertion.....

I'm one of the biggest Peterson fans you'll find, but Moreno has better vision and instincts than Peterson. That's not to put them anywhere near on the same level, as the advantage in Peterson's athletic ability and strength is much larger than Moreno's advantage in vision/instincts, but I will say that Moreno has some of the best vision out there.

Better vision/instincts?? I don't think so...Tell me this then.....Why does Peterson hit the hole (and some of the holes are really tight) so hard and decisively? Do you think it's because the play is simply drawn up to hit this hole or that hole and he just runs straight to it? It's called vision and instincts, that's the reason he hits it up in there and sees things develop, then pops out of the other side so quickly. His athleticism is enhanced by his vision and instincts. McFadden has athleticism, but right now he's nowhere near the top level guys in vision and instincts. It is just not accurate to state that a guy who isn't even in the NFL has better vision/instincts than a guy who is showing everyone what vision/instincts is all about and is at the top of the pile right now. We're talking elite vision/instincts in Peterson, Moreno can only hope to match it......he certainly won't be better at it

A bit hypocritical don't you think. You're saying we can't compare Moreno/ADP because Moreno hasn't done anything on an NFL level yet. And then you go on to state that he "certainly" won't be better at something, even before seeing him attempt.

 

[mggoilers]

Moreno will be given every opportunity, and given that O-line he should be.

Hopefully the playcalling and situational substitutions don't get too cute.

I'm expecting 260 carries, 1180 yards, 11 TDs with probably another 40 catches and 300 yards thrown in.

He needs to stay healthy, and if he can pass protect he should get plenty of playing time right away.

 

[DoubleG]

If this guy is so great, then why didnt he go in the top 10???

Emmitt Smith went #17. He sucks.

Can we just stop this already. Every guy that's slow or drafted late is either Emmitt Smith, Tom Brady, or Jerry Rice. For the last time, guys like those 3 are the EXCEPTION, NOT THE RULE. It's so weak to throw them out as a reason why "so and so" will be good. There's 1000 scrubs for every 1 Smith, Brady, or Rice.

And the super technical body analysis stuff is a little much too, imo.

Moreno went to a QB-challenged team, one that has a new coaching staff that seems to be in love with RBBC> oh, and Moreno will split time with the other 5RB's on the roster.

First off, one of the five has already been cut. Torian will (at best) start on the PUP due to his ACL repair being only 6 months ago. That leaves 2 RB's who are both over 30 years old (Buckhalter and Jordan) and J.J. Arrington. Between the 2 old guys, they have started 9 or more games in a season ONCE (Jordan stated 14 in '05) - that's 18 seasons. Between all 3 RBs last year, they started a combined 5 games (and they were with 3 different teams). My point is that the 2 old guys and the 26 year old who has a career 3.6 ypc and 5 total TD's to his name are not going to start or even share siginificant time.

With Orton as his QB (a guy that has decent accuracy and favors a controlled passing game vs. air-it-out-every-other-play), Moreno is in good position to get plenty of carries and receptions. Matt Forte seemed to do okay in that department with Orton as his QB last year - and the Broncos WR's are much better - meaning fewer 8 man fronts for Orton and Moreno than Orton was used to seeing last year with Forte. Yes, I realize the coaching staff may have a different philisophy, but the QB is the one who checks down/audiblizes/etc.

Simply put, Moreno is actually in a very good situation. He got drafted by a team that had quite a few RB's - but all of them career backups and not very highly paid, a decent O-line, a QB who doesn't necessarily like to throw deep and favors a more conservative offense, who will also check down to Moreno (or the TEs) on a blitz, and good WR talent to keep the defense honest.

 

[coolmonk]

First off, one of the five has already been cut. Torian will (at best) start on the PUP due to his ACL repair being only 6 months ago. That leaves 2 RB's who are both over 30 years old (Buckhalter and Jordan) and J.J. Arrington. Between the 2 old guys, they have started 9 or more games in a season ONCE (Jordan stated 14 in '05) - that's 18 seasons. Between all 3 RBs last year, they started a combined 5 games (and they were with 3 different teams). My point is that the 2 old guys and the 26 year old who has a career 3.6 ypc and 5 total TD's to his name are not going to start or even share siginificant time.

With Orton as his QB (a guy that has decent accuracy and favors a controlled passing game vs. air-it-out-every-other-play), Moreno is in good position to get plenty of carries and receptions. Matt Forte seemed to do okay in that department with Orton as his QB last year - and the Broncos WR's are much better - meaning fewer 8 man fronts for Orton and Moreno than Orton was used to seeing last year with Forte. Yes, I realize the coaching staff may have a different philisophy, but the QB is the one who checks down/audiblizes/etc.

Simply put, Moreno is actually in a very good situation. He got drafted by a team that had quite a few RB's - but all of them career backups and not very highly paid, a decent O-line, a QB who doesn't necessarily like to throw deep and favors a more conservative offense, who will also check down to Moreno (or the TEs) on a blitz, and good WR talent to keep the defense honest.

Good post!

 

[valence]

First off, one of the five has already been cut. Torian will (at best) start on the PUP due to his ACL repair being only 6 months ago. That leaves 2 RB's who are both over 30 years old (Buckhalter and Jordan) and J.J. Arrington. Between the 2 old guys, they have started 9 or more games in a season ONCE (Jordan stated 14 in '05) - that's 18 seasons. Between all 3 RBs last year, they started a combined 5 games (and they were with 3 different teams). My point is that the 2 old guys and the 26 year old who has a career 3.6 ypc and 5 total TD's to his name are not going to start or even share siginificant time. With Orton as his QB (a guy that has decent accuracy and favors a controlled passing game vs. air-it-out-every-other-play), Moreno is in good position to get plenty of carries and receptions. Matt Forte seemed to do okay in that department with Orton as his QB last year - and the Broncos WR's are much better - meaning fewer 8 man fronts for Orton and Moreno than Orton was used to seeing last year with Forte. Yes, I realize the coaching staff may have a different philisophy, but the QB is the one who checks down/audiblizes/etc.Simply put, Moreno is actually in a very good situation. He got drafted by a team that had quite a few RB's - but all of them career backups and not very highly paid, a decent O-line, a QB who doesn't necessarily like to throw deep and favors a more conservative offense, who will also check down to Moreno (or the TEs) on a blitz, and good WR talent to keep the defense honest.Good post!

I think you guys are forgetting about Peyton "the hammer" Hillis

 

[Tau837]

First off, one of the five has already been cut. Torian will (at best) start on the PUP due to his ACL repair being only 6 months ago. That leaves 2 RB's who are both over 30 years old (Buckhalter and Jordan) and J.J. Arrington. Between the 2 old guys, they have started 9 or more games in a season ONCE (Jordan stated 14 in '05) - that's 18 seasons. Between all 3 RBs last year, they started a combined 5 games (and they were with 3 different teams). My point is that the 2 old guys and the 26 year old who has a career 3.6 ypc and 5 total TD's to his name are not going to start or even share siginificant time. With Orton as his QB (a guy that has decent accuracy and favors a controlled passing game vs. air-it-out-every-other-play), Moreno is in good position to get plenty of carries and receptions. Matt Forte seemed to do okay in that department with Orton as his QB last year - and the Broncos WR's are much better - meaning fewer 8 man fronts for Orton and Moreno than Orton was used to seeing last year with Forte. Yes, I realize the coaching staff may have a different philisophy, but the QB is the one who checks down/audiblizes/etc.Simply put, Moreno is actually in a very good situation. He got drafted by a team that had quite a few RB's - but all of them career backups and not very highly paid, a decent O-line, a QB who doesn't necessarily like to throw deep and favors a more conservative offense, who will also check down to Moreno (or the TEs) on a blitz, and good WR talent to keep the defense honest.

You didn't mention Hillis, but I think that's okay... he'll presumably go back to FB and won't get appreciable carries barring another run of injuries.

 

[duaneok66]

some of the last few posts have been comical . . .

did anyone with sense actually think that the Broncos were done at RB after they acquired Arrington, Buchhalter, and Jordan??

you are talking about leftovers from three other teams!!!