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Labor Dispute Master Thread (1 Viewer)

SBJLizMullen Liz Mullen

Breaking--Judge Nelson in NFL Lockout case: "Defendants’ motion for a stay pending appeal is DENIED."

 
'zadok said:
And now begins the best 24 hours in offseason history...
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If they don't get an emergency stay from the appeals court I think you're right. The next three days could be epic.Would be an interesting time to call up the NFL and suggest terms for a new CBA. Along with a clear understanding of how those terms might change based on future legal outcomes.
 
Not unless they get a stay. As I understand it, failure to negotiate with free agents would be illegal. This is really close to unraveling for the owners.

 
The NFL wants a defacto "stay" (waiting on the 8th circuit) even though it has been explicitly denied. They are playing with fire if they try that.

 
'Rockchild said:
'renesauz said:
'roadkill1292 said:
Rene, it seems that the lockout was the first drone missile to be fired.
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Wasn't the lockout a RESPONSE to decertification? IE: It was NOT the first missile, at least not the first nuclear missile. ;)
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I would argue negotiating a lesser TV deal knowing they were going to lockout the players was the first missile!!
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Perhaps, but it turned out to be a dud! ;)
 
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6439599&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines

MINNEAPOLIS -- The federal judge who lifted the NFL lockout dealt another blow to the league late Wednesday, denying its request to put her ruling on hold and guaranteeing more limbo for the $9 billion business.

U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson wrote that the NFL "has not met its burden for a stay pending appeal, expedited or otherwise." She dismissed the NFL's argument that it is facing irreparable harm because of her decision Monday to end the 45-day lockout.

"In short, the world of 'chaos' the NFL claims it has been thrust into -- essentially the 'free-market' system this nation otherwise willfully operates under -- is not compelled by this court's order," Nelson wrote.

Nelson ruled that the league year must start immediately, but said no team is required to sign free agents. She did not specify any rules on trades, creating a gray area.

Nelson's decision also stated that all lockout rules are over, meaning teams must open their facilities and allow workouts.

The judge acknowledged that her decision will be appealed to the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis and the NFL has promised that step. There was no immediate word from the league after Nelson's decision.

The ruling means the league has no rules in place, shelved since the collective bargaining agreement ended on March 11 and the lockout was imposed shortly afterward.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, during an earlier predraft event in New York, said he wasn't worried about the state of confusion tarnishing the league's image but stressed his desire to "remove" the uncertainty.

"It's one of the things I don't think is healthy for the players, the clubs and most importantly our fans," he said.

Attorneys for the players had dismissed the NFL's argument that it risks either violating antitrust laws by coming up with new league rules without a collective bargaining agreement in place or harming its competitive balance by allowing a potential free agency free-for-all.

"If the NFL defendants are faced with a dilemma, they put themselves in that position by repeatedly imposing rules and restrictions that violate the antitrust laws," the attorneys wrote. "Any alleged predicament is of their own making."

The solution, the players argued, is to simply implement a system that does not violate antitrust laws.

Nelson agreed.

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"Again, the NFL argues it will suffer irreparable harm because it is now 'forced to choose between the irreparable harm of unrestricted free agency or the irreparable harm of more treble damages lawsuits,' " Nelson wrote. "But no such Scylla-or- Charybdis choice exists here. There is no injunction in place preventing the NFL from exercising, under its hoped-for protection of the labor laws, any of its rights to negotiate terms and conditions of employment, such as free agency."

The NFL will now place its hopes with the 8th Circuit, viewed as a more friendly venue to the league than the federal courts in Minnesota.

Goodell said the surest way for the league to operate without running afoul of antitrust laws is to get back to bargaining with the players. The two sides had 16 days of talks with a mediator earlier this year and four more with a federal magistrate. Little progress has been seen, though the two sides are scheduled to meet again May 16.

"That's how we've been successful. That's how other leagues have been successful, and it should continue that way," Goodell said.

All of this played out while teams are preparing for Thursday's draft. Most players again stayed away from team headquarters, working out on their own as the NFL's first work stoppage since 1987 plays out in court. Two Washington Redskins players showed up at their facility, another rather fruitless visit.

"What we're looking for is a little clarity as far as what the rules are, so we can operate on the same page. So we'll just have to wait and see what those rules are," coach Mike Shanahan said.

Detroit defensive end Kyle Vanden Bosch said he hadn't heard about any players visiting Lions headquarters.

"Until guys know they can get some work done at that facility, they're just going to work out on their own and take a wait-and-see approach," he said.
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We will continue to have different realities. NFL will say no business while on appeal. Players/agents will say different. On to 8th Circuit.

 
Nelson's decision also stated that all lockout rules are over, meaning teams must open their facilities and allow workouts.
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Parties in the weight rooms tomorrow.
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, during an earlier predraft event in New York, said he wasn't worried about the state of confusion tarnishing the league's image but stressed his desire to "remove" the uncertainty."It's one of the things I don't think is healthy for the players, the clubs and most importantly our fans," he said.
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This means Goodell and the owners will move swiftly to put in a set of rules, right?
 
"In short, the world of 'chaos' the NFL claims it has been thrust into -- essentially the 'free-market' system this nation otherwise willfully operates under -- is not compelled by this court's order," Nelson wrote.
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Sounds like some sort of right-wing Tea Party type ;)
 
No team can ever be required to sign a free agent. This is no different than any free agent signing period.

 
What a dang mess!

The League needs to just realize, they lost legally, and every second they wait to open the season, they lose fans. The worst times ever for the NFL.

This will be very big issue if the 8th circuit overturns another judges ruling in a case like this, who does the NFLPA appeal to then? lol

 
From the ruling:

“The NFL has not met its burden for obtaining a stay pending appeal, expedited or otherwise,” Nelson said in her decision. “Defendants are under no obligation to enter a new contract with any player. Conversely, the players face the real and immediate harm of a lost season in a typically short professional career.”
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'zadok said:
No team can ever be required to sign a free agent. This is no different than any free agent signing period.
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Yeah, if I was an owner, I might 'negotiate' with any player that wanted to talk, but no one can make me sign anyone.I do wonder if some maverick starts signing second-tier free agents, tho. Only takes one owner to stray from the herd to make this a free-for-all.
 
'zadok said:
No team can ever be required to sign a free agent. This is no different than any free agent signing period.
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Do you think this could cause a rift amongst owners that may not be 100% on board with the way things are going with the lockout. Let's say 30 teams choose to stand firm and not sign free agents, what would happen if the last 2 started scooping up the premier free agents?
 
'zadok said:
No team can ever be required to sign a free agent. This is no different than any free agent signing period.
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True- the owners aren't obligated to sign anyone. And I don't imagine they will (I hope I'm wrong on this). Unless the players can show that there is some orchestrated effort to not sign free agents (which would be a new antitrust claim) I think there will be a de facto stay on free agency until the appellate court rules.My $.02.
 
I am wondering if the owners anticipated all this happening. It appears they did not. They must really be confident with their chances in the 8th circuit. Their strategy of just delaying until the players are broke isn't impressive to me.

 
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'massraider said:
'zadok said:
No team can ever be required to sign a free agent. This is no different than any free agent signing period.
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Yeah, if I was an owner, I might 'negotiate' with any player that wanted to talk, but no one can make me sign anyone.I do wonder if some maverick starts signing second-tier free agents, tho. Only takes one owner to stray from the herd to make this a free-for-all.
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In this case the "herd" is collusion blantly defying an explicit order from federal court. Will any owner respct the Law?
 
'fatness said:
'zadok said:
The NFL wants a defacto "stay" (waiting on the 8th circuit) even though it has been explicitly denied. They are playing with fire if they try that.
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Their lawyers are desperate now. They may try it.
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The problem is that if they are wrong, they didn't just create a poor bargaining position for them. If they don't comply and Nelson thinks they aren't acting in accordance with her ruling they could be held in contempt. I would think the commish missing a couple days of the draft cause he's locked up would be bad? Pretty ironic though!
 
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'zadok said:
'massraider said:
'zadok said:
No team can ever be required to sign a free agent. This is no different than any free agent signing period.
Click to expand...
Yeah, if I was an owner, I might 'negotiate' with any player that wanted to talk, but no one can make me sign anyone.I do wonder if some maverick starts signing second-tier free agents, tho. Only takes one owner to stray from the herd to make this a free-for-all.
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In this case the "herd" is collusion blantly defying an explicit order from federal court. Will any owner respct the Law?
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Not signing a player is NOT defying the order. I get what you are saying, tho.
 
'KCitons said:
'zadok said:
No team can ever be required to sign a free agent. This is no different than any free agent signing period.
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Do you think this could cause a rift amongst owners that may not be 100% on board with the way things are going with the lockout. Let's say 30 teams choose to stand firm and not sign free agents, what would happen if the last 2 started scooping up the premier free agents?
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Definately possible. And those teams will have my lifelong respect.
 
'markb said:
I am wondering if the owners anticipated all this happening. It appears they did not. They must really be confident with their chances in the 8th circuit. Their strategy of just delaying until the players are broke isn't impressive to me.
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I think they are faking the confusion to buy time. If they can claim ignorance for a week the 8th circuit could rule before they have to open. Nelson seems to be wise to them though.
 
'massraider said:
'zadok said:
'massraider said:
'zadok said:
No team can ever be required to sign a free agent. This is no different than any free agent signing period.
Click to expand...
Yeah, if I was an owner, I might 'negotiate' with any player that wanted to talk, but no one can make me sign anyone.I do wonder if some maverick starts signing second-tier free agents, tho. Only takes one owner to stray from the herd to make this a free-for-all.
Click to expand...
In this case the "herd" is collusion blantly defying an explicit order from federal court. Will any owner respct the Law?
Click to expand...
Not signing a player is NOT defying the order. I get what you are saying, tho.
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32 teams agreeing not sign any is.
 
'markb said:
I am wondering if the owners anticipated all this happening. It appears they did not. They must really be confident with their chances in the 8th circuit. Their strategy of just delaying until the players are broke isn't impressive to me.
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When Judge Nelson was assigned to the case instead of Judge Doty, the NFL was very happy to have a "friendlier" judge. Fast forward to today, and the NFL is happy to go to the 8th circuit because they're supposed to be "friendlier" judges. They haven't admitted yet that they lose cases on the merits. And they look absolutely horrible to fans now.
 
Florio:

On Monday, Judge Susan Nelson made her feelings regarding the NFL’s work stoppage known, entering an order that concluded with these key words: “The lockout is enjoined.”The league believed that it needed more guidance as to whether Judge Nelson meant what she had said.On Tuesday, the U.S. District Court for the District of Minnesota issued a formal “Judgment in a Civil Case” granting the motion for preliminary injunction filed by the players, and reiterating the key words: “The lockout is enjoined.”And the league continued to believe that it needed more guidance as to whether Judge Nelson meant what she had said.On Wednesday, Judge Nelson refused to stay the lifting of the lockout while the NFL appeals the ruling. Based on the applicable legal standard, the decision isn’t a surprise.So what next? As we see it, the league can comply with Judge Nelson’s rulings and treat the lockout as over — or the league can maintain the status quo pending appeal of the decision not to stay the injunction, pending appeal.The risk of a finding of contempt of court has spiked significantly after today’s events, in our view. Though the league could project (feigned or otherwise) confusion on Monday and Tuesday, there is no doubt today regarding Judge Nelson’s intentions.The lockout is over. The injunction ending the lockout is not stayed.In light of letters from the lawyers for the NFL and the players submitted to Judge Nelson on Wednesday, we believe the league no longer can credibly claim that further clarification is needed.First, a letter from NFL local counsel Aaron D. Van Oort to Judge Nelson targeted the proposed order submitted by the players on Monday night elaborating on the ruling lifting the lockout. “We believe that the prescriptive language of the Court’s Order — ‘The lockout is enjoined’ — coupled with the Opinion that precedes that language, provides sufficient guidance of the Court’s directions,” Van Oort writes.The players saw the opening, and they drove a bus through it. In a letter from players’ local counsel Barbara Berens to Judge Nelson, the players withdrew the proposed order, “[g]iven the NFL Defendants’ concession that they understand their obligations.”In other words, Van Oort said all that needs to be said. “The lockout is enjoined,” and all that that implies.It means that the NFL, which has yet to issue a statement in response to the denial of the motion for a stay, must decide whether to fully and completely open for business, or to risk the penalties that arise from defying an order issued by a federal court.The safest course would be to implement rules now (presumably, the terms of the last year of the expired labor deal, with some tweaks), and to allow teams to sign free agents, to cut players, to trade players, to launch their offseason programs, to communicate with players, and to otherwise transact business.The lockout is enjoined. In other words, the lockout is over. The NFL engages in any behavior that conflicts with that reality at its own peril.And the league should be concerned about more than contempt of court in the short term. Judge Nelson will continue to preside over the case, and she’ll continue to issue key rulings. If the NFL exhausts her patience at this threshold stage of the litigation, Judge Nelson could naturally be inclined to take a dim view of the league’s arguments and tactics moving forward.
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'Chadstroma said:
'zadok said:
32 teams agreeing not sign any is.
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But 32 teams not signing anyone because there are a multitude of unanswered questions and worries about the future is not.
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The league had one of their lawyers tell Judge Nelson today in writing that her ruling was sufficiently clear. So they can't play "uncertain" without being in contempt of court.
As we see it, the league can comply with Judge Nelson’s rulings and treat the lockout as over — or the league can maintain the status quo pending appeal of the decision not to stay the injunction, pending appeal.

The risk of a finding of contempt of court has spiked significantly after today’s events, in our view. Though the league could project (feigned or otherwise) confusion on Monday and Tuesday, there is no doubt today regarding Judge Nelson’s intentions.

The lockout is over. The injunction ending the lockout is not stayed.

In light of letters from the lawyers for the NFL and the players submitted to Judge Nelson on Wednesday, we believe the league no longer can credibly claim that further clarification is needed.

First, a letter from NFL local counsel Aaron D. Van Oort to Judge Nelson targeted the proposed order submitted by the players on Monday night elaborating on the ruling lifting the lockout. “We believe that the prescriptive language of the Court’s Order — ‘The lockout is enjoined’ — coupled with the Opinion that precedes that language, provides sufficient guidance of the Court’s directions,” Van Oort writes.
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link
 
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Also, this is a great time for the coaches to jump in and give instructions/playbooks/etc. Communicate anything they have wanted to or may want to in the next few months. I would also make sure that a reliable vet is in charge of 'mentoring' the players my team drafts- try as best to get them up to speed. You never know if the 8th will/when grant a stay.

 
Here's hoping Ralph Wilson lifts a finger to his brethren, and signs himself quality free agents...more likely to be Al Davis, but it'd be nice for a non-rebel to do it for a change.

 
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