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Ladainian Tomlinson HoF? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Phlash
- Start date
David Yudkin
Footballguy
First ballot.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
1st ballot
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
first ballot without a doubt
Football Critic
Footballguy
Lets just say, I cant believe he even got 1 no vote, let alone 2 at this point.
If he dont belong in the hall, who does?
If he dont belong in the hall, who does?
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
Seriously?
fissure man
Footballguy
I voted yes, but I don't think he gets in first ballot.
He played against horrendous divisional defenses his entire career. He has ZERO memorable playoff games. He's a whiner.
He has ZERO rings.
He played against horrendous divisional defenses his entire career. He has ZERO memorable playoff games. He's a whiner.
He has ZERO rings.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
kinda like Barry
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Anyone that says he doesn't deserve to be in the HoF should have their voting privilages stripped.
gandalas
Footballguy
10+ TD every season of his career...
1100+ yards every year until last season (8 straight years)
4.3 YPC career average
Some random records from his Wikipedia page:
# In 2006 Tomlinson became the only player in NFL history to score 3+ touchdowns in 4 straight games
# Holds the record for most touchdowns scored in a four game span with 14 TDs
# Holds the record for most touchdowns scored in a five game span with 16 TDs (14 rushing, 2 receiving), breaking his own record of 15 that he had set two weeks earlier. Prior to that, the record was held by Jim Brown with 14.
# Holds the record for most touchdowns scored in a six game span with 19 TDs
# Became the only player in NFL history to rush for 1,000 yards (910 m) and receive 100 passes in a single season.
# Second player in NFL history with 1,800 rushing yards and 500 receiving yards in one season.
# LaDainian joins Emmitt Smith, Priest Holmes, Shaun Alexander, and Marshall Faulk as the only running backs to record consecutive seasons of 20 or more touchdowns
# Holds the record for most seasons with 17+ touchdowns with 5
consecutive) 2003-2007
# Holds the record for most seasons with 18+ touchdowns with 4consecutive) 2004-2007
# Holds the record for most seasons with 10+ rushing touchdowns with 9consecutive) 2001-2009
# Holds the record for most seasons with 11+ rushing touchdowns with 8consecutive) 2002-2009
What more can you ask?
1100+ yards every year until last season (8 straight years)
4.3 YPC career average
Some random records from his Wikipedia page:
# In 2006 Tomlinson became the only player in NFL history to score 3+ touchdowns in 4 straight games
# Holds the record for most touchdowns scored in a four game span with 14 TDs
# Holds the record for most touchdowns scored in a five game span with 16 TDs (14 rushing, 2 receiving), breaking his own record of 15 that he had set two weeks earlier. Prior to that, the record was held by Jim Brown with 14.
# Holds the record for most touchdowns scored in a six game span with 19 TDs
# Became the only player in NFL history to rush for 1,000 yards (910 m) and receive 100 passes in a single season.
# Second player in NFL history with 1,800 rushing yards and 500 receiving yards in one season.
# LaDainian joins Emmitt Smith, Priest Holmes, Shaun Alexander, and Marshall Faulk as the only running backs to record consecutive seasons of 20 or more touchdowns
# Holds the record for most seasons with 17+ touchdowns with 5
consecutive) 2003-2007# Holds the record for most seasons with 18+ touchdowns with 4
consecutive) 2004-2007# Holds the record for most seasons with 10+ rushing touchdowns with 9
consecutive) 2001-2009# Holds the record for most seasons with 11+ rushing touchdowns with 8
consecutive) 2002-2009What more can you ask?
joeski
Footballguy
Not sure if serious. Barry Sanders or another Barry? Sanders wasn't a whiner, and all his divisional defenses weren't horrendous.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Patriots fans, most likely.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Do we need to post his accomplishments? 3 time All Pro, all 9 seasons in the NFL he has produced double digit TD on the ground, had a 6 year span where his total TDs were 15, 17, 18, 20, 31, and 18 which includes the all time single season TD mark for a RB.
He had 100 recpetions in 2003 but even more impressive was until this past season he posted 8 50+ reception years...59, 79, 100, 53, 51, 56, 60, 52....that is in and of itself incredible.
#1 in rushing yds of anyone active in the NFL...#8 all time.
#1 in Touchdowns of anyone active in the NFL...#3 all time
2006 NFL MVP
He had 100 recpetions in 2003 but even more impressive was until this past season he posted 8 50+ reception years...59, 79, 100, 53, 51, 56, 60, 52....that is in and of itself incredible.
#1 in rushing yds of anyone active in the NFL...#8 all time.
#1 in Touchdowns of anyone active in the NFL...#3 all time
2006 NFL MVP
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
He was the biggest cry baby of them all ultimately just not wanting to play for Bobby Ross so he took his toys from the sandbox and retired. We all honor Sanders and no doubt he is also sky high on my list of NFL RBs but let's not pretend that he didn't have his little atitude either. You can defend him, that's fine. I have nothing but respect for Barry the player, and mostly in all other aspects of him but he was a whiner too.
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TommyGilmore
Footballguy
One of the best dual-threats in NFL history (right behind Marshall Faulk). He's the only RB in NFL history to have 1500 rushing yards AND 100 receptions in the same season. That's just amazing.
Koya
Footballguy
While he is a lock HoFer, his sudden and precipitous fall (though not uncommon for a back) has taken him out of the running for greatest ever or even top 3 all time, IMO.
Go back three years, and had he a couple more of those peak years you could make an argument as the best all around back ever... I also remember him talking about getting to and passing E. Smith for the overall rushing record. Neither are a reality now.
Go back three years, and had he a couple more of those peak years you could make an argument as the best all around back ever... I also remember him talking about getting to and passing E. Smith for the overall rushing record. Neither are a reality now.
radballs
Footballguy
I agree that he was really on pace for the GOAT but I still think he's top 3 all time (at a minimum top 5).
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
If he wants to hang on and compile while being a shadow of his former self for several years like Emmitt did, anything is possible.
Koya
Footballguy
IMO, he dropped too quickly to surpass:Jim BrownGale SayersSweetnessOJBarry SandersI can see him in the six slot - but I personally would put Faulk there. Also a tremendous all around back who was, simply put, more electrifying than LT2. In fact, as I think about it Faulk somehow has to fit in those top 5... probably at OJ's expense. Dickerson was a better runner, but LT's overall game puts him ahead. He was a better RB than Smith, whom I think got tremendous boost from the teams he played on. His extra years and overall game put him ahead of Campbell in my book as well.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
How is OJ on this list? Simpson had 5 years where he was great . . . and 6 years where he was mediocre. Simpson scored double digit TDs only two times.
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Cassius
Footballguy
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CalBear
Footballguy
Gale Sayers?? He dropped too quickly to surpass Gale Sayers? Gale Sayers had a grand total of two seasons with more than 1000 rushing yards, two seasons with 10+ TDs, and one season with 1500 rushing+receiving yards. He only played in 68 games (less than half of Tomlinson's total), and only 4 of those games were after he turned 27. Please, there's no comparison.
Koya
Footballguy
Cant really go by stats alone here, especially with less games, less medical treatment etc. From the film I have seen and what others discussed, he just seemed to be THAT good. I could certainly be wrong, and he is on the with the least confidence in my book but its my opinion.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I would take him as my starting RB (in his prime) over everyone except maybe Payton and J.Brown.
Koya
Footballguy
You are correct. There is no comparison in their abilities because as good as LT2 is, Sayers was the most impressive runner the game has ever seen. Now, had LT2 kept going for say, 3-5 years, perhaps his longevity would have popped him above Barry and certainly OJ - but I never saw enough in LT2 (not taking away from him, hes one of the best ever) to ever consider bumping any of the big three... Jim Brown as the clear greatest ever and true man amongst boys, Sweetness as still the "best all around" and Sayers unique spot due to his ridiculous running ability even in such a short career.Again, thats my list, my opinion.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Simpson was great for a few years but it took a while for him to get started and his performance level fell off after that with time missed from injuries and generally getting older. He was insanely good in three years (73, 75, 76). I rmember his last 3 games in 76 when he had almost 650 rushing.I would agree at his peak/in his prime that Simpson was awesome. So I guess my question is what are we ranking on . . . career totals? Individual seasons? How they looked?Tomlinson put up pick numbers but never really looked phenomenal in doing it. Someone like Emmitt got the job done by moving the chains, not with 75 yard runs. Someone like Faulk likely benefited from teams having to play off the line and cover multiple receivers . . . so he would often have more room to run and played mostly indoors on turf. There are a lot of variables that could have to be reviewed. Not knowing what the criteria for a Top 5 list are, it's tough to pick.
dgreen
Footballguy
His drop wasn't sudden and precipitous. He went from 2300 yards from scrimmage to 1900 to 1500 to 900. It was a steady fall. Payton's fall was much more sudden, albeit at an older age and was largely because he was up so high.I'm not sure why you would downgrade someone for falling from such a high peak.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
LT had more than 3 times the touches Sayers had (3410 and counting vs. 1103). And LT has averaged nearly 25 more yards from scrimmage per game than Sayers did (with LT having in a much longer career).
Koya
Footballguy
That's the key. I put far more emphasis on a 3-5 year window when judging best ever (although you need some compilation of stats except for the rarest of outliers... see Sayers) for RBs because of the abuse their bodies take. ESPECIALLY pre 1990 and moreso pre 1980 as medical advances have really helped prolong careers nowadays.RB to me is an eye test as much as anything. In HS and college it was the position I played, so I feel an affinity toward RBs, and can appreciate what the uber greats could do... LT2 is as solid a player as they come. But I never saw that glint in him that I saw in Faulk, OJ, Sayers, Brown, Sanders - even Campbell.
Koya
Footballguy
It didnt take much more than watching Sayer's on film to know that no one I have witness was as good a runner as he was. It was a different game then. You certainly know and can appreciate that. Stats really don't mean much, especially here - at least as I look at it (and others are entitled to their opinion, no right or wrong here). While we can try to extrapolate Sayer's career without the injury, or with medical help what we don't need to do is look at all of these guys in their prime... when you look at it that way, instead of HoF which takes peak vs. career and all, Jim Brown and Sayers are in worlds unto themselves. No one is in Sayers stratosphere in my personal eye test. Damn, the guy put moves on defenders who were behind him but had the angle. Just ungodly and beautiful.
Koya
Footballguy
Im not downgrading him, but had LT2 not only brought his tremendous productive peak (an extended one at) but an exceptionally long peak as well, then Id have given him a bonus. Again, its just my personal list.
joeski
Footballguy
Well that's your opinion of the man. Everyone dislikes the way he retired, but I don’t remember him whining/complaining during his career. Whatever thread jack over and I voted Yes for LT of course.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
We either have 7 (and counting) really contrarian people or 7 (and counting) people just discovering the NFL and its history or some combination of the two.
CalBear
Footballguy
It's certainly true that if you want to talk about how beautiful someone is, stats don't mean much. This discussion is about the best runners of all time, so in this discussion, stats mean a lot. If you want to discuss beauty, try the Miss America Pageant.
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Koya
Footballguy
Has anyone made any case for LT2 to NOT be in the HoF? (other than his attempt to Co-opt LT when, good as LT2 is, he is nowhere near as good at his position nor as influential within the game as the real LT :soapbox: )
We can split hairs of top 10 vs. top 5 vs. top 3, but as Jason noted, you'd have to be blind or ignorant it would seem to not have him in the hall.
We can split hairs of top 10 vs. top 5 vs. top 3, but as Jason noted, you'd have to be blind or ignorant it would seem to not have him in the hall.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Here's the problem I have with Sayers (and some other similar players). We've all seen the highlight reel plays and he was extrememly elusive on those plays. But there were plenty of other plays . . . nondescript ones . . . that we DIDN'T see.Sayers BEFORE he got hurt and was never the same averaged slightly below 15 carries a game. He had a ypc in the 5.0 to 5.1 range. That's basically 75 yards rushing a game, which even back then wasn't earth shaking. I'm not knocking his skills, but he didn't get the ball a ton and only had a 5 year window where he was productive.I realize that was a different era, but if a player only got the ball 14 times a game and produced 65-75 yards a game on the ground, no one would really be talking about him as a HOF candidate. IMO, Sayers got inducted for what could have been and some great skills, but numbers wise he's a fringe HOF guy in my book.
Koya
Footballguy
You can attempt to take one word I use and harp on that... but if you want to talk about best runner ever? LT2 may have had a better career, but Sayers was a far better runner, putting both at their healthy peak.LT2s career is better than his raw running ability imo.And beautiful is not just aesthetic here. Sayers could, and DID do things with the football that no one I have seen can touch. Faulk had some of it, Barry was a different style but some of it ... but Sayers was still the best pure runner and LT2 wouldnt be in my discussion for that throne.
Koya
Footballguy
Good points on Sayers, especially the fact that we didnt see the bulk of the plays. However, for most athletes that played before my time, you need to also go off what their contemporaries thought... and it appears that Sayers was held in special regard for what he brought to the game. Not to hijack onto Sayers...
dgreen
Footballguy
What? I'm not following what you're saying here.
Koya
Footballguy
T. Davis - too short a peak without that (imo at least) something special ala Sayers to overcome it. His short career = downgrade.LT2 - Decent, maybe an extended peak. No upgrade nor downgrade. However, lets say LT2 had 2-3 more of those peak years, he would then, imo, get an upgrade for exceptional longevity.E Smith - Extended peak and productivity, getting him to the overall rushing record, gets that upgrade (though I'd rather have LT2 and still put LT2 above Emmitt, but its close and I could change my mind)Hope that clarifies.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
When I first started reading up on Sayers and then the HoF induction, I thought to myself, that's nice of the NFL to allow some guys in that were not shoe ins due to their numbers. Sayers numbers by themself...was it any better than Terrell Davis?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
As I touched upon before, the players you mentioned all had very good Sports Center highlight tapes. Players like LT for the most part didn't have those moves/jukes/cuts to fake people out, twist defenders ankles from a cutback, etc. so in terms of "beauty" I agree that the other players you mentioned had more pure running skills. But as others have mentioned it's not all about who looked prettier doing it.For example, I remember Bo Jackson was a skill freak when he played. But he played baseball and was a part time player in addition to getting hurt. Bo ended with a 5.4 ypc and had speed to birn. But no one seems to consider him in these great running back debates . . .
I've been seriously watching football since around 1982, and IMO Tomlinson was a phenomenal runner in his prime. I think he's better than anyone I've personally watched except for maybe (as I said earlier) Payton. And that's a maybe. I've also watched more NFL Films presentations in that time than I care to remember and Jim Brown is the only other guy I would maybe take ahead of him. My opinion, of course.
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