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Lake O red tide disaster (1 Viewer)

belljr

Footballguy

eoMMan

Footballguy
That’s the biggest misconception that we hear. Lake O releases did not initiate this bloom,” she said. “It is unique that it has lasted this late into the summer, but it’s not necessarily widespread and we’ve had blooms that have gone all the way up into the Panhandle

https://www.ussugar.com/news/the-facts-on-florida-red-tide-it-is-not-caused-by-lake-okeechobee/

https://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/weather/new-why-red-tide-killing-spree-florida/pKBrmy4zR75rMrQK1JVwsM/
I agree that it's a result from a combination of things (high rainfall, Irma, bad decisions from Army Corp of Engineers, etc) but US Sugar definitely isn't innocent. They've given a buttload of money to politicians over the years to soften regulations. 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/os-sugar-industry-political-donations-20160712-story.html
 

 

GroveDiesel

Footballguy
Red tide has been an issue for forever. This is unusual in its length, but not unprecendented at all. Social media just makes it seem like it's an unprecendented disaster and causing ridiculous hysteria by people. 

And no, we DON'T know that Congress and the President can do anything to fix this.

 

Binky The Doormat

Footballguy
Spent a week at Indian Rocks, FL a number of years ago and it was red tide the entire week.  Beachfront place ...stunk really bad, couldn't get away from the smell - and certainly didn't go in the water ...dead fish floating everywhere and lots of drying, dried ones on the beach.  

Don't know how long it lasted, it was there when we got there and going strong when we left.  

 

Osaurus

Footballguy
It’s nasty and heading further north so Tampa Bay. May be enjoying it very soon.  Lake O is an abomination.  If you didn’t sink into the muck, you could walk across it.  It’s that shallow in areas.

 
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eoMMan

Footballguy
Red tide has been an issue for forever. This is unusual in its length, but not unprecendented at all. Social media just makes it seem like it's an unprecendented disaster and causing ridiculous hysteria by people. 

And no, we DON'T know that Congress and the President can do anything to fix this.
Sorry, but I strongly disagree. This really has just made national news but has been going on for weeks.

And there are tons of businesses on the gulf coast suffering because of it. Tourists are cancelling vacations left and right and those that do visit, are urged caution on where they can swim and what seafood they can eat.

And yes, the Congress and the President can always do SOMETHING. What exactly is the best solution is the issue that no one can agree on.

 

SoBeDad

Footballguy
This could decide the Senate race in Florida. That's an advantage to Nelson, even though Scott is not entirely to blame. But his pro-development positions and silence on climate change are easy targets.

 

Cowboysfan8

Footballguy
This could decide the Senate race in Florida. That's an advantage to Nelson, even though Scott is not entirely to blame. But his pro-development positions and silence on climate change are easy targets.
From ragin's link

"Red tides have occurred as far back as the 1500s, when Spanish explorers recorded periodic incidences of fish kills and fumes that caused respiratory irritation. "

So how is this anyone's fault that is alive today?

 

got_nugs

Footballguy
Sorry, but I strongly disagree. This really has just made national news but has been going on for weeks.

And there are tons of businesses on the gulf coast suffering because of it. Tourists are cancelling vacations left and right and those that do visit, are urged caution on where they can swim and what seafood they can eat.

And yes, the Congress and the President can always do SOMETHING. What exactly is the best solution is the issue that no one can agree on.
I completely agree with you, neighbor.

 

ProstheticRGK

Footballguy
From ragin's link

"Red tides have occurred as far back as the 1500s, when Spanish explorers recorded periodic incidences of fish kills and fumes that caused respiratory irritation. "

So how is this anyone's fault that is alive today?
Ok, so if I concede your point that nobody who is alive today directly caused the red tides to start, then what do we do?

 

SoBeDad

Footballguy
From ragin's link

"Red tides have occurred as far back as the 1500s, when Spanish explorers recorded periodic incidences of fish kills and fumes that caused respiratory irritation. "

So how is this anyone's fault that is alive today?
Florida has 2 big environmental problems - the red-tide and the blue-green algae bloom. The blue-green algae blooms are caused by another organism known as a cyanobacteria . Most experts believe that the algae blooms are largely man-made cased by agricultural pollution in Lake Okeechobee (cattle farms to the north and big sugar near the south) and disruption of the natural slow flow of water from the Kissimmee river basin south through the lake to the Everglades. 

Scott is blaming the Feds and Nelson is blaming Scott. I think Nelson wins that battle because of Scott has favored business and agricultural interests over the environment. Scott's environmental record is abysmal: https://www.nrdcactionfund.org/news/rick-scott-brings-abysmal-environmental-record-to-senate-race-in-florida/

 
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blend

Footballguy
It's absolutely disgusting.  I live in Ft Myers and the impact is enormous.  It is impacting nearly all industry in the area.  I cannot believe that the Army Corp of Engineers thought it was okay to release that toxic sludge.  I can't believe that the State has allowed Big Sugar to dump their waste INTO Lake O instead of cleaning it first.  I can't believe that the land that should have been purchased with the passage of Amendment 1 hasn't occurred yet.  I can't believe they haven't built a water processing plant N of the Lake to clean the water before it gets into Lake O from the North.  

and the people that suffer are the salt of the earth fishing captains and tourism industry.    

 

Koya

Footballguy
I don't know.

But I'm not thinking it should have anything to do with the next election, do you?
Why should it not? We may not know all the answers, but when a state is experiencing ever more environmental issues (some that LIKELY if not almost assuredly are affected by / made worse by policy decisions regarding environmental law and outcomes, and others such as global warming and climate change which are much larger in scope, but have real effects and must be recognized so appropriate defensive policies can be put into place) it would seem pretty short sighted to ignore that one of the candidates has an awful track record on the environment. From both denial and head in the sand re climate change, to his preference to serve the needs of industry and developers at the expense of his people and the environment in which they live.

That's as if saying there are two candidates for CEO for a company that is reeling from terrible accounting practices and inefficiencies, but there's no need to take into account the fact that one of the two has a track record of failure at his previous position(s) on those very issues. While you may or may not know the best strategies to address the issues, hiring the CEO that you know is unwilling/unable and unlikely to do so would see pretty shortsighted.

 

pinkham13

Footballguy
That’s the biggest misconception that we hear. Lake O releases did not initiate this bloom,” she said. “It is unique that it has lasted this late into the summer, but it’s not necessarily widespread and we’ve had blooms that have gone all the way up into the Panhandle

https://www.ussugar.com/news/the-facts-on-florida-red-tide-it-is-not-caused-by-lake-okeechobee/

https://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/weather/new-why-red-tide-killing-spree-florida/pKBrmy4zR75rMrQK1JVwsM/
The sugar company spin is that the discharge from lake o doesn’t cause red tide which is true but if you read closely you can see that it does feed the red tide when it gets close to shore. It makes sense that the fertilizer runoff would exarcerbate the problem. Kinda like putting bloom boom on your flowers in spring.

 

Punxsutawney Phil

Footballguy
Florida has 2 big environmental problems - the red-tide and the blue-green algae bloom. The blue-green algae blooms are caused by another organism known as a cyanobacteria . Most experts believe that the algae blooms are largely man-made cased by agricultural pollution in Lake Okeechobee (cattle farms to the north and big sugar near the south) and disruption of the natural slow flow of water from the Kissimmee river basin south through the lake to the Everglades. 

Scott is blaming the Feds and Nelson is blaming Scott. I think Nelson wins that battle because of Scott has favored business and agricultural interests over the environment. Scott's environmental record is abysmal: https://www.nrdcactionfund.org/news/rick-scott-brings-abysmal-environmental-record-to-senate-race-in-florida/
:Goodposting:. I think many are confusing the Red Tide with the Okeechobee problem.  Algae blooms are common in warm waters that don't get enough flow.  However, they are definitely exacerbated by the nitrogen from fertilizers.  Nelson has been a fixture in FL politics, so I have a hard time believing he was unable to do anything over the years.  He probably is also in the pockets of big ag.  Scott sucks, and Putnam is the AG commissioner, so he would likely be the one in a position to have actually done something.  I'm sure Putnam would come down really hard on his ag buddies if he won the Gov.

Psa, pick up your dog poop.  It doesn't break down, and ends up in the water.  It's definitely not like cow poop, or other crap that's used for fertilizer.

 
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James Daulton

Footballguy
Even in this day and age, companies will still screw all of us and the environment over for a dollar if we let them.  And boy are we now letting them. 

 

flranger

Footballguy
Sugar is only really the issue to the extent that the Okeechobee flow no longer gently flows out the south end of the lake via "the river of grass".  However, this was all halted by the dike built for flooding prevention anyways.  Very little of the flow from the sugar fields gets "in" to okeechobee.  It's just that all the ag to the south of the lake keeps okeechobee from being able to flow "out" it's natural passage way, which filtered the water before flowing through the everglades into Florida Bay.

Now the flow "out" of Okeechobee is primarily through two ditches dug by army corps.  The Caloosahatchee river, and the St Lucie canal.  Neither have any reasonable filtering capability.  

The primary causes of Okeechobee's water quality demise can be attributed to the north, where most of the flow comes from the central portions of the state including Orlando/Kissimmee.  The Kissimmee chain is a huge body of water that previously had tons of vegetation, which filtered the water prior to it getting to the Kissimmee river, which flows into okeechobee.  Okeechobee itself had, and still has vegetation but not nearly like it did in the past so it cannot filter the water itself.  The state has waged a war on exotic (and native unfortunately) vegetation in the lakes of the kissimmee chain and others.

Add on top of all that, a hurricane after a very wet season last summer and record rainfall in May in the central parts of the state.  Just a ton of factors, and one that no politician wants to deal with.  Even if you do everything right, its a 50 year fix if even possible.

 

russinfortworth

Footballguy
Was at Fort Myers 2 weeks ago for a baseball event.  We stayed inland by the airport, friends of our stayed on the beach.  We went down to meet them for dinner one night, no one on the beach due to the dead fish and horseshoe crabs everywhere. 

No one in the water except for a couple of idiots. 

When we flew out, you could literally see the difference in the water.   

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
Cowboysfan8 said:
From ragin's link

"Red tides have occurred as far back as the 1500s, when Spanish explorers recorded periodic incidences of fish kills and fumes that caused respiratory irritation. "

So how is this anyone's fault that is alive today?
Fires existed before humans even existed, so how could that Columbia River Gorge fire possibly have anything to do with the guy who threw a firecracker in there and lit a bunch of trees on fire?

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
This is getting the full “climate change” treatment. “No, it’s just a short term anomaly of the same stuff we always see.”  I think we’ll probably see in a few years every scientist agree that was BS, too. 

 

belljr

Footballguy
:Goodposting:. I think many are confusing the Red Tide with the Okeechobee problem.  Algae blooms are common in warm waters that don't get enough flow.  However, they are definitely exacerbated by the nitrogen from fertilizers.  Nelson has been a fixture in FL politics, so I have a hard time believing he was unable to do anything over the years.  He probably is also in the pockets of big ag.  Scott sucks, and Putnam is the AG commissioner, so he would likely be the one in a position to have actually done something.  I'm sure Putnam would come down really hard on his ag buddies if he won the Gov.

Psa, pick up your dog poop.  It doesn't break down, and ends up in the water.  It's definitely not like cow poop, or other crap that's used for fertilizer.
No, its been stated that the Red Tide is a cause because of the Okeechobee problem.  Something that many have said is not true.

Thats how this whole discussion started

 
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belljr

Footballguy
The sugar company spin is that the discharge from lake o doesn’t cause red tide which is true but if you read closely you can see that it does feed the red tide when it gets close to shore. It makes sense that the fertilizer runoff would exarcerbate the problem. Kinda like putting bloom boom on your flowers in spring.
I'm just trying to make sure the facts are clear.  I can only go base off what I read also

But per Tracy Fanara, a staff scientist at Mote Marine Laboratory in Sarasota.

And while red tide will take advantage of high nutrient levels near the coast to multiply, Fanara said it’s not Lake Okeechobee discharges that initiated this year’s bloom. Also, the mouth of the Caloosahatchee is too far south for its water to reach areas such as Venice, which has also suffered bouts of red tide this summer, Fanara said.

“That’s the biggest misconception that we hear. Lake O releases did not initiate this bloom,” she said. “It is unique that it has lasted this late into the summer, but it’s not necessarily widespread and we’ve had blooms that have gone all the way up into the Panhandle.”

:shrug:

I'm not going to pretend to have the answers but it appears there are disagreements on the root cause

 
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pinkham13

Footballguy
I'm just trying to make sure the facts are clear.  I can only go base off what I read also

But per Tracy Fanara, a staff scientist at Mote Marine Laboratory in Sarasota.

And while red tide will take advantage of high nutrient levels near the coast to multiply, Fanara said it’s not Lake Okeechobee discharges that initiated this year’s bloom. Also, the mouth of the Caloosahatchee is too far south for its water to reach areas such as Venice, which has also suffered bouts of red tide this summer, Fanara said.

“That’s the biggest misconception that we hear. Lake O releases did not initiate this bloom,” she said. “It is unique that it has lasted this late into the summer, but it’s not necessarily widespread and we’ve had blooms that have gone all the way up into the Panhandle.”

:shrug:

I'm not going to pretend to have the answers but it appears there are disagreements on the root cause
I never disputed the root cause. Red tide is naturally occuring. But even the people you quoye say that the nutrients from the discharge do feed the blooms. It’s not rocket science.

 

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