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Lamar Miller vs David Wilson (1 Viewer)

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I cannot believe this thread even exists. Wilson is going to crush Miller in career VBD. I'm not even that high on Wilson. I think he's around RB18 this year. The Miller talk/hype is insane. I don't know how many times I've said this, but the dude couldn't even beat out Daniel Thomas on the depth chart in training camp. Thomas was arguably the worst RB in the league last year over 100 touches. Everyone is going to re-visit threads like these and be all sick :X that they ever compared the two.
And David Wilson couldn't beat out a 4th round running back going on his 5th team last year, with a whole 2 career carries after the starter went down. What is your point?
Wilson was one of the most electric players in the league last year and was the lead back in the committee during the last four games. The only reason he didn't play more is Coughlin has unreasonable dislike for fumbles and Andre had the hot hand mid-season (carved up Carolina). Daniel Thomas never had the hot hand and was by all accounts awful the entire season. Wilson had ONE fumble last year but it happened to be in the first game, so Coughlin basically shathouse him for the next 10 games... which was insane, because of how talented the guy is compared to the other backs.

I have to believe if Wilson was on many other teams, or a team with a worse passing offense, or a team with a more reasonable coach, that he would have been fed the ball and gotten over 1000 yards easily. Imagine Wilson on the Redskins with RG3 ... jesus. I'll take talent over situation any day of the week because it will pay off in the long run.
He wasn't the lead back in a RBBC for the last 4 games, both Bradshaw and Brown were hurt and one could barely play the other couldn't. He also couldn't get back on the field because he couldn't pass block. Lastly, he isn't on another team, that is why I like Miller better this year and Wilson better long term. If he was on another team we wouldn't have this thread.

 
I drafted these guys 1.3 and 2.3 in my dynasty rookie draft last year. I'm glad their upside is showing (particularly as I only have the misfit pieces in Carolina, a couple of other Ballard-esque spare parts and a high pick in this year's rookie draft at RB going forward. Writing though about the assumption that if Tannehill struggles, Miller will excel. I don't think it works that way at all. When a QB plays well, his team keeps more drives alive, gets to the red zone more and most importantly, keeps the defense from stacking the box to shut down the run than if he plays badly. A better QB is also more able to complete passes to the RB. All of these factors give the offense more plays and the RB more carries, catches and chances to score. I realize that having more weapons and a strong passing game spreads around the points as well. The two factors tend to offset each other, but if I have a RB, I want his team to have a good and productive QB with him. The numbers say RBs can benefit both ways. Great RB totals can come with good QB production (Lynch, McGahee, A. Morris, Ridley) or with poor QBs (ADP, MJD, Charles) but I would argue the RBs with good QBs don't have to be as exceptional RBs to produce big numbers as if they have lesser QBs. Bad RB results are just about as equally spread between good QBs and bad. My point is, I don't think Tannehill sucking will help Miller at all, because if he does, the team will score less, run less plays and opposing defenses will load the box and make rushing much more difficult. (Luckily, I don't think Tannehill will suck.) On the OP question, feeling that both guys have shown glimpses of huge talent and that neither one is the least bit proven as a 'bellcow' RB, I voted for Wilson because the Miami OL just isn't up to the task of either blocking for Tannehill or for Miller nearly as well as the NYG line will for Eli and Wilson, this year and until that balance changes. I would also note that Miller has the greater injury history and Wilson has, to date, shown more elite open field blaze. I think that outweighs, until we know more, how the potential we have seen in Miller's smooth elusiveness and perhaps superior production between the tackles will compare to what Wilson will generate in the FF stat line.
I never said Miller would excel if Tannehill struggles, he would excel fantasy wise because he will get more carries and more chances for yards and touchdowns. Fantasy football and NFL football are different. No one would say Shonn Greene, or Micheal Turner excelled last year but fantasy wise they weren't horrible.

 
He wasn't the lead back in a RBBC for the last 4 games, both Bradshaw and Brown were hurt and one could barely play the other couldn't. He also couldn't get back on the field because he couldn't pass block. Lastly, he isn't on another team, that is why I like Miller better this year and Wilson better long term. If he was on another team we wouldn't have this thread.
:goodposting: I like Wilson, but some of the revisionist history going on in this thread and other Wilson threads is just getting silly.

 
I own both in different leagues. I like Wilson as a fantasy prospect by a pretty good margin. I like both more than any of the guys from this year's crop.

 
Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
So when exactly did Miller become a good bet? Did he produce or flash more than Wilson last year or is it simply offseason hype that made him a better bet? Outside of one decent redzone carry, I didn't see anything in Miller to warrant his lofty projections and I watched every snap of his, (which wasn't difficult because there were so few). I also watched every snap of Wilson's and it's pretty obvious that he is more explosive than anyone on the field. To me, it's Wilson by a good margin, short and long term.
Yeah this one confused me also... last season Miller saw less carries, less yards and less YPC than Wilson saw last season. Miller's were also all spread out randomly through the year 4-5 carries in random games. Wilson more or less took 50% of the teams RB snaps the last 4 weeks of the season and up up about 11 carries/62yards/0.75TDs/5.75ypc during those four games. And looked explosive as hell while doing it, that's completely negating the fact that he lead the league in special teams yardage last season and every time he caught a kickoff was a Patrick Peterson/Devin Hester type threat from the goalline. The fact that we're actually sitting here comparing the two on talent is mind blowing to me. Even if Wilson sees 50 less carries than Miller I'd still expect him to out produce Miller.
I really don't care about return yards.First, he had a hall of fame preseason and the hype train started after big runs vs bears. Really nice plays back to back to back. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=640398&hl=%2Bdavid+%2Bwilson Search my name here. I wasn't interested for the price.

Game one 2 carries, 4 yards and a fumble early in the game. We all know the story here.

Week 2 Bradshaw gets hurt and Andre Brown gets 90 yards and a TD. Wilson had 3 carries for 6 yards, 0 rec on 2 targets. The Giants were pushing for Wilson early in games to no avail. The smart money was still on him with Bradshaw out.

Andre Brown tears up a terrible Panthers run defense. Wilson was beyond a non-factor. By now Wilson was a bad bet for the second time. Bradshaw comes back vs my Eagles. Wilson does nothing besides drop a pass. The backfield is Brown and Bradshaw's.

Late in blowouts Vs Cle/NO Wilson has two nice long TD runs. Nice plays for sure. Outside of those long runs Wilson has 39 carries for 117 yards (3ypc) on the season.

With Brown and Bradshaw hurt Wilson was a hot pickup getting his 1st real start. Wilson has 66 yards while Kregg Lumpkin arguable looks better.

Week 17, which doesn't matter, he plays well vs a hopeless Eagles team in a blowout. End of season.

I don't own Wilson or Miller anywhere. It's possible I won't own either in redraft this year. I just thought this was worth a discussion even though I already know what majority thinks. If Brown wasn't in the picture I would take Wilson for sure.

 
Both will be top 10 going into next year.
I agree with this and I think Wilson can be top 5 best case while Miller I see see at best around 10. My question is, just how high is Wilson's ceiling?
I could see him being a highly productive player in a year or two... Close to a 2000 yds from scrimmage type of guy
yeah with his level of explosiveness his ceiling is pretty high... the biggest issue people have right now is until it's seen he has a basement level floor. It's not a situation like Doug Martin or Trent Richardson where you more or less know what you're getting. Wilson has the potential from a physical talent standpoint to end his career standing among the greats of the NFL, but he also has the potential to be the next Ron Dayne. And it's that risk that scares away people who like to play it safe and that same risk that makes people who like the high risk high reward type of players drooling for this season to start with him in the backfield.

 
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Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
One. Not multiple, not plural. One.

 
Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
One. Not multiple, not plural. One.
I have to assume he had ball handling issues in practice, given his usage.

 
Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
One. Not multiple, not plural. One.
I have to assume he had ball handling issues in practice, given his usage.
So your statement that "Wilson dealth with fumbles" is based on your assumption of what happened in practice, and isn't actually based on any facts or evidence.

You might want to put a * next to statements like that, with an explanation at the bottom of your post.

 
Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
One. Not multiple, not plural. One.
I have to assume he had ball handling issues in practice, given his usage.
So your statement that "Wilson dealth with fumbles" is based on your assumption of what happened in practice, and isn't actually based on any facts or evidence. You might want to put a * next to statements like that, with an explanation at the bottom of your post.
Correct me if I am wrong because I didn't follow Wilson in college at all, but didn't he have fumbling problems at Va. Tech? Maybe this was the coaching staffs way of saying your talent might trump your fumbling problems in college but it isn't going to happen in the NFL and sent a message.

 
Wilson has the much higher upside, because if he fully beats out Brown, which I expect, he is going to play on a better offense. Better offense=more touches, more yards, more scores.

 
Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
So when exactly did Miller become a good bet? Did he produce or flash more than Wilson last year or is it simply offseason hype that made him a better bet? Outside of one decent redzone carry, I didn't see anything in Miller to warrant his lofty projections and I watched every snap of his, (which wasn't difficult because there were so few). I also watched every snap of Wilson's and it's pretty obvious that he is more explosive than anyone on the field. To me, it's Wilson by a good margin, short and long term.
Yeah this one confused me also... last season Miller saw less carries, less yards and less YPC than Wilson saw last season. Miller's were also all spread out randomly through the year 4-5 carries in random games. Wilson more or less took 50% of the teams RB snaps the last 4 weeks of the season and up up about 11 carries/62yards/0.75TDs/5.75ypc during those four games. And looked explosive as hell while doing it, that's completely negating the fact that he lead the league in special teams yardage last season and every time he caught a kickoff was a Patrick Peterson/Devin Hester type threat from the goalline. The fact that we're actually sitting here comparing the two on talent is mind blowing to me. Even if Wilson sees 50 less carries than Miller I'd still expect him to out produce Miller.
I really don't care about return yards.First, he had a hall of fame preseason and the hype train started after big runs vs bears. Really nice plays back to back to back. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=640398&hl=%2Bdavid+%2Bwilson Search my name here. I wasn't interested for the price.

Game one 2 carries, 4 yards and a fumble early in the game. We all know the story here.

Week 2 Bradshaw gets hurt and Andre Brown gets 90 yards and a TD. Wilson had 3 carries for 6 yards, 0 rec on 2 targets. The Giants were pushing for Wilson early in games to no avail. The smart money was still on him with Bradshaw out.

Andre Brown tears up a terrible Panthers run defense. Wilson was beyond a non-factor. By now Wilson was a bad bet for the second time. Bradshaw comes back vs my Eagles. Wilson does nothing besides drop a pass. The backfield is Brown and Bradshaw's.

Late in blowouts Vs Cle/NO Wilson has two nice long TD runs. Nice plays for sure. Outside of those long runs Wilson has 39 carries for 117 yards (3ypc) on the season.

With Brown and Bradshaw hurt Wilson was a hot pickup getting his 1st real start. Wilson has 66 yards while Kregg Lumpkin arguable looks better.

Week 17, which doesn't matter, he plays well vs a hopeless Eagles team in a blowout. End of season.

I don't own Wilson or Miller anywhere. It's possible I won't own either in redraft this year. I just thought this was worth a discussion even though I already know what majority thinks. If Brown wasn't in the picture I would take Wilson for sure.
Nobody mentioned return yards. What was mentioned was his "explosiveness" while handling the ball on returns. Big difference in evaluation of talent vs numbers put up that game. I don't play return yds either but I can still see when a guy jumps off the screen against NFL talent while handling the ball. Plus, I see above that you mentioned you were looking at PPR. When has Lamar Miller ever demonstrated that he would be valuable in PPR? Not really in college and not last year with a total of six catches. When has he shown he could reliably catch the ball, run routes or pass block? If he can't pass block or catch the ball, he's going to be a two down back very quickly.

 
I expect miller to be a 3 down back solely because of the lack of competition. Thomas and gillislee? Give me miller on third down over these guys

 
Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.

 
Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.

And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.

 
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I expect miller to be a 3 down back solely because of the lack of competition. Thomas and gillislee? Give me miller on third down over these guys
Actually, Thomas is a good 3rd down back. What really matters is what the coaches think and who can pass block, run routes, catch the ball and maneuver in space. I'm definitely not a Thomas fan, but he has skills in 3 of those areas.

 
Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
One. Not multiple, not plural. One.
I have to assume he had ball handling issues in practice, given his usage.
So your statement that "Wilson dealth with fumbles" is based on your assumption of what happened in practice, and isn't actually based on any facts or evidence.

You might want to put a * next to statements like that, with an explanation at the bottom of your post.
You might want to double-check who wrote each post. I am not the person you responded to initially.

I'm super-high on Wilson. But I have to assume his benching was not due to one fumble in game 1.

 
Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.

And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.
This also... I'm not sure when it was announced that Wilson wasn't a good receiver. If you read almost any pre-draft profile on him there are comments about him being a solid receiver out of the backfield.

NFL.com:

STRENGTHS Wilson is extremely explosive and quick-twitched off the snap. He can quickly accelerate to top speed, and he makes the most of his small frame by lowering his pad level into hits. He is so explosive and generates such movement with his leg drive that he is capable of running over linebackers, but he prefers to use his agility to make guys miss in space. Wilson is just as electric working as a receiver out of the backfield or in the slot as he is as a ball carrier, and he could be used in a variety of alignments.
ProFootballWeekly.com

Compactly built with defined, layered muscle — strong for his size. Terrific balance and flexibility. Outstanding athletic ability. Dynamic playmaker — can string moves together, elude multiple tacklers and create highlight-reel, plus-20-yard runs. Explosive. Good play speed and short-area burst. Sticks his foot in the ground and accelerates. Sees the cutback. Elusive — makes quick lateral cuts and leaves tacklers grasping at air. Can make something out of nothing. Surprising run strength and tackle-breaking ability — strong hips and thighs to bounce off tackles. Highly competitive and runs hard. Maintains stamina and is productive in the fourth quarter. Can catch outside his frame — is an effective outlet and creates after the catch. Outstanding return vision and traffic burst. Is likable and comes off like a big kid with a lighthearted, fearless personality. Has a 41-inch vertical jump, the best of all backs at the Combine.
You could say he may not have been used a lot in school as a receiver but truthfully he only had a few less receptions than Richardson. He just wasn't utilized that much as a receiver it doesn't mean he doesn't have the skills to be a lethal receiver out of the backfield. The biggest draw back to his passing game is his pass blocking ability, which we have to assume has been severely corrected this offseason. He won't see playing time if he can't protect Eli, no matter how explosive he is with the ball.

 
Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
One. Not multiple, not plural. One.
I have to assume he had ball handling issues in practice, given his usage.
So your statement that "Wilson dealth with fumbles" is based on your assumption of what happened in practice, and isn't actually based on any facts or evidence.

You might want to put a * next to statements like that, with an explanation at the bottom of your post.
Why is that Wilson owners want to look at actual stats when anyone mentions fumbles, but when it's pointed out that Andre Brown had better numbers than Wilson in almost every category (Brown had a higher YPC, twice as many TDs on virtually the same number of carries, more receptions, etc.) - then we start talking about things not based in facts or actual stats like "explosiveness" and "eyeball test"?

So in this thread, when a Wilson owner who is higher on him than most starts talking about "explosiveness" - can we put an * next to that too? And point out that Andre Brown was more explosive, by averaging more yards per carry or having twice as many TDs? I also find the "Wilson is so young" stuff a little odd - Brown is also only 26 - the same age as J. Charles and Ray Rice and younger than CJ2k, Matt Forte and Lynch. While I understand that most of them have a record of success, none are being downgraded because of their age.

If you want to use numbers to back up your point, please do. If you prefer to just stick with subjective terms instead of objective measurements, I guess that's fine - but the waffling whenever it suits a point looks pretty silly and quite a bit like cherry picking.

 
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Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.
You can't be serious when comparing the hype between the two. I was kidding about the explosiveness. It's just funny that one is considered explosive and the other isn't when Wilson and Miller were not that far off as measured athletes. I even pointed out that Miller has the edge and I was told to watch some tape. There is no poking holes in this guy to most people. I don't think either of them are CJ Spiller kind of athletes. Just two good small RB's.

 
Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.
This also... I'm not sure when it was announced that Wilson wasn't a good receiver. If you read almost any pre-draft profile on him there are comments about him being a solid receiver out of the backfield.

NFL.com:

STRENGTHS Wilson is extremely explosive and quick-twitched off the snap. He can quickly accelerate to top speed, and he makes the most of his small frame by lowering his pad level into hits. He is so explosive and generates such movement with his leg drive that he is capable of running over linebackers, but he prefers to use his agility to make guys miss in space. Wilson is just as electric working as a receiver out of the backfield or in the slot as he is as a ball carrier, and he could be used in a variety of alignments.
ProFootballWeekly.com

Compactly built with defined, layered muscle strong for his size. Terrific balance and flexibility. Outstanding athletic ability. Dynamic playmaker can string moves together, elude multiple tacklers and create highlight-reel, plus-20-yard runs. Explosive. Good play speed and short-area burst. Sticks his foot in the ground and accelerates. Sees the cutback. Elusive makes quick lateral cuts and leaves tacklers grasping at air. Can make something out of nothing. Surprising run strength and tackle-breaking ability strong hips and thighs to bounce off tackles. Highly competitive and runs hard. Maintains stamina and is productive in the fourth quarter. Can catch outside his frame is an effective outlet and creates after the catch. Outstanding return vision and traffic burst. Is likable and comes off like a big kid with a lighthearted, fearless personality. Has a 41-inch vertical jump, the best of all backs at the Combine.
You could say he may not have been used a lot in school as a receiver but truthfully he only had a few less receptions than Richardson. He just wasn't utilized that much as a receiver it doesn't mean he doesn't have the skills to be a lethal receiver out of the backfield. The biggest draw back to his passing game is his pass blocking ability, which we have to assume has been severely corrected this offseason. He won't see playing time if he can't protect Eli, no matter how explosive he is with the ball.
You're putting words in my mouth. I said neither has the greatest pass catching profile. I didn't say anything more or less. I even pointed out plays where he bobbled passes, but I guess that doesn't matter.
 
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Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.
You can't be serious when comparing the hype between the two. I was kidding about the explosiveness. It's just funny that one is considered explosive and the other isn't when Wilson and Miller were not that far off as measured athletes. I even pointed out that Miller has the edge and I was told to watch some tape. There is no poking holes in this guy to most people. I don't think either of them are CJ Spiller kind of athletes. Just two good small RB's.
Miller isn't small.

 
Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.
You can't be serious when comparing the hype between the two. I was kidding about the explosiveness. It's just funny that one is considered explosive and the other isn't when Wilson and Miller were not that far off as measured athletes. I even pointed out that Miller has the edge and I was told to watch some tape. There is no poking holes in this guy to most people. I don't think either of them are CJ Spiller kind of athletes. Just two good small RB's.
Miller isn't small.
Small in the sense that he won't be relying on power to make plays.
 
Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.
You can't be serious when comparing the hype between the two. I was kidding about the explosiveness. It's just funny that one is considered explosive and the other isn't when Wilson and Miller were not that far off as measured athletes. I even pointed out that Miller has the edge and I was told to watch some tape. There is no poking holes in this guy to most people. I don't think either of them are CJ Spiller kind of athletes. Just two good small RB's.
Miller isn't small.
Small in the sense that he won't be relying on power to make plays.
That doesn't make any sense but ok. Fact remains he is not a small RB.

 
Boy, if this thread has taught me one thing it's that the Wilson owners/club is probably the most overconfident group I've seen this offseason. This and I actually like Wilson and have ever since he was a VTech. On top of that, there is some strange logic being used in this thread by the Pro-Wilson group.

I actually love both of these players and have for a long time. As prospects I liked Miller a bit more and have thought he was severely underrated for a long time. Apparently that time has come to an end. When Miller fell in the draft I was shocked. I've always seen him as a 1st round talent and believe he feel due to growing concerns about his shoulder. He's a Clinton Portis like runner only bigger, stronger and IMO smoother. What I think the average fan doesn't realize with Miller is that he makes the position look effortless and there is a bit of an allusion that he isn't as sudden, explosive or has great burst. But he does. Wilson plays with a more dramatic theme and at times runs out of control because of his rare explosive ability. I think Wilson is the better creator of yardage of the 2 but Miller has better vision and natural I stints for the hole. I suppose this could be interpreted poorly if you feel Mia is going to struggle this year. If the Mia oline struggles to create seams for Miller he would thus be forced to create the yardage. There is little seperation in these guys ability IMO despite draft position. I think that will become evident as this season plays out but can understand the hesitation for people to agree with that now. Miller was in fact a 4th round pick.

As far as who I'd want. For this year I'd easily take Miller. He is going to be given the keys to the offense and will have little competition. Wilson will have to share a good bit more with Brown IMO. In fantasy, touches matter and I see a Miller getting about 30 more this year. On top of that, I see the, as similar players in ability. I think Miller will take advantage of his touches even if the Mia offense does struggle a little. Both should have strong seasons but like I said, more opportunity pushes Miller ahead.

For dynasty, I really don't know. I'd rank them pretty even. I love np both on ability and think both are going to have decent supporting casts for the next few years.

 
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Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.
You can't be serious when comparing the hype between the two. I was kidding about the explosiveness. It's just funny that one is considered explosive and the other isn't when Wilson and Miller were not that far off as measured athletes. I even pointed out that Miller has the edge and I was told to watch some tape. There is no poking holes in this guy to most people. I don't think either of them are CJ Spiller kind of athletes. Just two good small RB's.
Miller isn't small.
Small in the sense that he won't be relying on power to make plays.
That doesn't make any sense but ok. Fact remains he is not a small RB.
He plays small. His game is more speed and agility than size and strength. Bigger backs are close to 220 for me.
 
Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.
You can't be serious when comparing the hype between the two.I was kidding about the explosiveness. It's just funny that one is considered explosive and the other isn't when Wilson and Miller were not that far off as measured athletes. I even pointed out that Miller has the edge and I was told to watch some tape. There is no poking holes in this guy to most people. I don't think either of them are CJ Spiller kind of athletes. Just two good small RB's.
Miller isn't small.
Small in the sense that he won't be relying on power to make plays.
That doesn't make any sense but ok. Fact remains he is not a small RB.
He plays small. His game is more speed and agility than size and strength. Bigger backs are close to 220 for me.
Lamar Miller is 218lbs.

You can keep saying the same thing over and over if you like. Your statement above is that he was a small RB and you continue to try and fudge it as if he is because of how he plays yet you say above that "bigger backs are close to 220" for me. You seem completely unaware of Miller's size both by the statement I bolded and your original statement to begin with.

 
I inquired about Wilson in a dynasty league and was told I would have to pay top 2 RB prices for him to even think about moving him. So in that instance he's valued more than almost every RB in the league. Seemed a tad excessive and I like WIlson... but top 2 RB? Ended up trading for Miller instead -- gave Bradshaw/Ballard, Greg Little and a '14 2nd and was happy with that.

 
I inquired about Wilson in a dynasty league and was told I would have to pay top 2 RB prices for him to even think about moving him. So in that instance he's valued more than almost every RB in the league. Seemed a tad excessive and I like WIlson... but top 2 RB? Ended up trading for Miller instead -- gave Bradshaw/Ballard, Greg Little and a '14 2nd and was happy with that.
You should be that is robbery

 
Can we retire the word explosive??

If Miller doesn't come off the field he gets a bump in ppr. That theory goes for most RB's. Even if Mia is getting blown out, like some have suggested, he can still be valuable in comeback efforts. Miller doesn't have the greatest pass catching profile, but neither does Wilson.
Would you prefer "burst" or "short area quickness"? When evaluating talent, most people deal in explosive #s when it comes to vertical leap, broad jump, 10 yd time, 40 time, etc. That is why those skills are tested at the combine. Those numbers matter in a game where the guy with the best fast twitch muscles has an advantage over his competition.And that PPR theory of yours requires an every down back to hold up. Miller has not shown a propensity for being an every down back in his life although is size and 40 time compare favorably. Sorry man, not arguing just to argue, just somewhat confused why there are so many on his jock when he could end up being De'shaun Foster as a high side since the Dolphins really aren't that invested in the guy. If he plays well....? good for him and good for the FF players that make/made the investment. If he doesn't or gets injured, the team will move on very quickly from him, as do most teams when a 4th rd, unproven pick is involved. Wilson will have more latitude and plays on a better team with a proven coach, QB, scheme and supporting cast. Therefore, I like Wilson's odds better than Miller.
You can't be serious when comparing the hype between the two.I was kidding about the explosiveness. It's just funny that one is considered explosive and the other isn't when Wilson and Miller were not that far off as measured athletes. I even pointed out that Miller has the edge and I was told to watch some tape. There is no poking holes in this guy to most people. I don't think either of them are CJ Spiller kind of athletes. Just two good small RB's.
Miller isn't small.
Small in the sense that he won't be relying on power to make plays.
That doesn't make any sense but ok. Fact remains he is not a small RB.
He plays small. His game is more speed and agility than size and strength. Bigger backs are close to 220 for me.
Lamar Miller is 218lbs.

You can keep saying the same thing over and over if you like. Your statement above is that he was a small RB and you continue to try and fudge it as if he is because of how he plays yet you say above that "bigger backs are close to 220" for me. You seem completely unaware of Miller's size both by the statement I bolded and your original statement to begin with.
One more time lol. He's more effective using his speed/agility off tackle than inside. I really meant speed back. I was reading he was 212 in a few places. It doesn't matter. Whatever ...
 
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Miami homer here. Small sample size but Miller was an effective inside runner for the Dolphins last year. He was quick into the hole and is a very north south runner. He was also effective off tackle. Others have described his running style as effortless. I very much agree. Different size and talent obviously but I compare his running style to Eric Dickerson.

 
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I inquired about Wilson in a dynasty league and was told I would have to pay top 2 RB prices for him to even think about moving him. So in that instance he's valued more than almost every RB in the league. Seemed a tad excessive and I like WIlson... but top 2 RB? Ended up trading for Miller instead -- gave Bradshaw/Ballard, Greg Little and a '14 2nd and was happy with that.
You should be that is robbery
That trade is hilariously horrible, haha

 
Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
One. Not multiple, not plural. One.
I have to assume he had ball handling issues in practice, given his usage.
So your statement that "Wilson dealth with fumbles" is based on your assumption of what happened in practice, and isn't actually based on any facts or evidence.

You might want to put a * next to statements like that, with an explanation at the bottom of your post.
Why is that Wilson owners want to look at actual stats when anyone mentions fumbles, but when it's pointed out that Andre Brown had better numbers than Wilson in almost every category (Brown had a higher YPC, twice as many TDs on virtually the same number of carries, more receptions, etc.) - then we start talking about things not based in facts or actual stats like "explosiveness" and "eyeball test"?

So in this thread, when a Wilson owner who is higher on him than most starts talking about "explosiveness" - can we put an * next to that too? And point out that Andre Brown was more explosive, by averaging more yards per carry or having twice as many TDs? I also find the "Wilson is so young" stuff a little odd - Brown is also only 26 - the same age as J. Charles and Ray Rice and younger than CJ2k, Matt Forte and Lynch. While I understand that most of them have a record of success, none are being downgraded because of their age.

If you want to use numbers to back up your point, please do. If you prefer to just stick with subjective terms instead of objective measurements, I guess that's fine - but the waffling whenever it suits a point looks pretty silly and quite a bit like cherry picking.
I'm not a Wilson owner nor am I high on Wilson.

I am merely entering the conversation because I see a statement that is clearly, factually, incorrect.

One fumble is one, singular, not plural. Saying that a guy with one career NFL fumble (granted it was only one season with limited touches) had fumble problems just doesn't seem quite right to me.

 
Everyone is worked up for Wilson, rightfully so, but Lamar Miller is more likely to start/see more carries in 2013 than Wilson does. No one has argued that Miller has the clearer path, but people are more enthused with Wilson. Bush is out, Thomas isn't that great and Gilleslee is as close to a bust as they come. Andre Brown is a threat and he isn't going anywhere. David Wilson was a bad bet more often than not last season, somehow he became the greatest RB alive. He looked like the 3rd best RB on his team last year. I would consider a argument that even Kregg Lumpkin outplayed him in the ATL game. Wilson dealt with fumbles, dropped passes, crying, backflips, and underperformance but this is a silly question because he's the next great FF RB. I don't have anything against Wilson. If fact, as a starter I think he could get 1200+ yards and 6-8 TDs and be exciting. Right now he's looking like a 1a, 1b, or 60/40 split that yields goal line carries at best, that's not what I look for in FF RB's. Lamar Miller is looking like the unquestioned main carry RB for Mia. That might be good enough for fringe top 15-20 ppr numbers, with some upside. Unless something changes you can have Wilson.
One. Not multiple, not plural. One.
I have to assume he had ball handling issues in practice, given his usage.
So your statement that "Wilson dealth with fumbles" is based on your assumption of what happened in practice, and isn't actually based on any facts or evidence.

You might want to put a * next to statements like that, with an explanation at the bottom of your post.
Why is that Wilson owners want to look at actual stats when anyone mentions fumbles, but when it's pointed out that Andre Brown had better numbers than Wilson in almost every category (Brown had a higher YPC, twice as many TDs on virtually the same number of carries, more receptions, etc.) - then we start talking about things not based in facts or actual stats like "explosiveness" and "eyeball test"?

So in this thread, when a Wilson owner who is higher on him than most starts talking about "explosiveness" - can we put an * next to that too? And point out that Andre Brown was more explosive, by averaging more yards per carry or having twice as many TDs? I also find the "Wilson is so young" stuff a little odd - Brown is also only 26 - the same age as J. Charles and Ray Rice and younger than CJ2k, Matt Forte and Lynch. While I understand that most of them have a record of success, none are being downgraded because of their age.

If you want to use numbers to back up your point, please do. If you prefer to just stick with subjective terms instead of objective measurements, I guess that's fine - but the waffling whenever it suits a point looks pretty silly and quite a bit like cherry picking.
I'm not a Wilson owner nor am I high on Wilson.

I am merely entering the conversation because I see a statement that is clearly, factually, incorrect.

One fumble is one, singular, not plural. Saying that a guy with one career NFL fumble (granted it was only one season with limited touches) had fumble problems just doesn't seem quite right to me.
Yeah, if you watch his season highlights you'll see the difference between his preseason runs, the fumble vs the Cowboys and his runs later in the year when he got out of the doghouse a little bit. He started holding the ball higher and tighter (Bradshaw/Tiki like) and whenever he ran through a lot of traffic he cuped the ball with both hands and his pads. Again, both Bradshaw and Tiki Barber had bad fumbling issues that were repaired by Coughlin and staff. David Wilson is no different, they know how to teach a RB how to hold the ball. Here's the video of last seasons highlights for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uviR8HjLDxk

Also in this video, you can see his ability to break tackles is much higher than a lot of people seem to give him credit for in this thread. Very rarely is he brought down by first contact. Same with his pass catching, he may not have a lot of receptions last year to go on, but the few he did have were catches a lot of WRs would have struggled with. His vertical leap is complete insanity and makes him a force downfield for receptions as well as out of the backfield.

 
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It certianly seems WIlson will be playing on the better offense. But it is tough to shake the memory of Coughlin playing Kregg Lumpkin vs Atlanta last year when it was supposed to be Wilson's coming out party.

I just feel like Wilson is going to lose a bunch of touches to Andre Brown this year.

 
Is it really this much of a runaway? Interesting.

Pretty similar yards per carry averages in the ACC at 5.8 for Wilson and 5.7 for Miller. Small sample size so far in the NFL, but Wilson has a minor edge there as well at 5.0 versus 4.9.

Similar combine numbers.

I guess you might have to go Wilson in dynasty because of the organizational track record there, but I'll have to agree with the posters saying Miller looks smoother. I enjoy the way he runs.

Both of these guys are going to be good backs. For 2013 I think Miller has the inside track to more fantasy points.

 
Is it really this much of a runaway? Interesting.

Pretty similar yards per carry averages in the ACC at 5.8 for Wilson and 5.7 for Miller. Small sample size so far in the NFL, but Wilson has a minor edge there as well at 5.0 versus 4.9.

Similar combine numbers.

I guess you might have to go Wilson in dynasty because of the organizational track record there, but I'll have to agree with the posters saying Miller looks smoother. I enjoy the way he runs.

Both of these guys are going to be good backs. For 2013 I think Miller has the inside track to more fantasy points.
See my thing with Miller vs Wilson is this... watch the video above with Wilson. You'll see him make moves, use his quickness, break tackles and never really go down at first contact. In this video of Miller's highlights last season he goes down at first contact almost every single touch and these are his 'best runs' of the year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7khPECxIbxY

He doesn't seem to possess the ability to really make guys miss or break through even basic arm tackles. He also seems to let his feet get ahead of himself as several times he trips or slips while trying to make a cut. He doesn't really plant his feet properly. If you look at the one run against Tennessee or the other run against the Colts you'll see what I mean. He may have similar combine numbers to Wilson (which really isn't true he only participated in 2 combine drills) but his numbers to me don't seem to translate into elite talent like they seem to on Wilson's tape. Miller seems to be able to run as far as the hole is willing to allow him to run. He doesn't create his own space like Wilson or any top back in the NFL does. That is the difference between an average starting back and an elite back in this league. Wilson can create space around him with his abilities, Miller (at least from what I can see in his Hurricanes and Dolphins footage) has yet to show he can do that. Until he can I'm putting him in the average category.

These were all concerns of him coming out of school and are seen in any pre-draft profile you look at on the kid here's the quote from NFL.com

WEAKNESSES

Miller has only one full season of tape and was rather ineffective as a runner prior to this year. He relies on speed and leg drive to gain yards. He won't be able to juke linebackers at the next level or bail himself out of bad spots with his feet.

He should be able to make things like this happen considering his size and measureables but he doesn't.

 
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WEAKNESSES

Miller has only one full season of tape and was rather ineffective as a runner prior to this year. He relies on speed and leg drive to gain yards. He won't be able to juke linebackers at the next level or bail himself out of bad spots with his feet.

He should be able to make things like this happen considering his size and measureables but he doesn't.
Huh? He was more effective in 2010 than he was in 2011. He didn't get nearly as manipy touches but he still had a serviceable amount. He state line from Mia was;2010

108 carries, 646 yds, 6.0 avg, 6 TDs

2011

227 carries, 1272 yds, 5.6 avg, 9 TDs

On top of that, he missed 2 games and played injured in several others in 2010. I can't recall what the injury was but I think it was a hammy or ankle.

 
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WEAKNESSES

Miller has only one full season of tape and was rather ineffective as a runner prior to this year. He relies on speed and leg drive to gain yards. He won't be able to juke linebackers at the next level or bail himself out of bad spots with his feet.

He should be able to make things like this happen considering his size and measureables but he doesn't.
Huh? He was more effective in 2010 than he was in 2011. He didn't get nearly as manipy touches but he still had a serviceable amount. He state line from Mia was;2010

108 carries, 646 yds, 6.0 avg, 6 TDs

2011

227 carries, 1272 yds, 5.6 avg, 9 TDs

On top of that, he missed 2 games and played injured in several others in 2010. I can't recall what the injury was but I think it was a hammy or ankle.
That was a quote from NFL.com's draft profile on him. Not sure why they said it if it wasn't true lol

 
WEAKNESSES Miller has only one full season of tape and was rather ineffective as a runner prior to this year. He relies on speed and leg drive to gain yards. He won't be able to juke linebackers at the next level or bail himself out of bad spots with his feet.

He should be able to make things like this happen considering his size and measureables but he doesn't.
Huh? He was more effective in 2010 than he was in 2011. He didn't get nearly as manipy touches but he still had a serviceable amount. He state line from Mia was;2010

108 carries, 646 yds, 6.0 avg, 6 TDs

2011

227 carries, 1272 yds, 5.6 avg, 9 TDs

On top of that, he missed 2 games and played injured in several others in 2010. I can't recall what the injury was but I think it was a hammy or ankle.
That was a quote from NFL.com's draft profile on him. Not sure why they said it if it wasn't true lol
I know, not directing my confusion towards you. Sorry if it looked that way.
 
I think the talent is even. Wilson has more cons than Miller because of talent on the roster.
I'm not sure how you could say that the talent is roughly even between them. Miller is a good talent and better than his 4th round pedigree. But to say he is on Wilson's level in terms of pure talent is simply silly. Wilson's talent at the position is through the roof, Miller is a player who is fairly (imo) average in most measurable at the position besides speed. He doesn't have amazing movement skills, he's not going to make many guys miss and he doesn't break a ton of tackles. At least not from all the tape on him I've watched. Where as Wilson does all of that in spades.
Miller actually has the better measurables on paper.
Miller:

4.34 40, 35 vert, 10'00" broad, 4.08 40yd shuttle, 6.94 3 Cone Drill

Wilson:

4.38 40, 41 vert, 11'00" broad, 4.12 40yd shuttle. 7.09 3 Cone Drill

Pretty close in my opinion. Wilson is definitely more explosive (better vert and broad jump), while Miller is a tiny bit faster and a bit more agile.

 
Is it really this much of a runaway? Interesting.

Pretty similar yards per carry averages in the ACC at 5.8 for Wilson and 5.7 for Miller. Small sample size so far in the NFL, but Wilson has a minor edge there as well at 5.0 versus 4.9.

Similar combine numbers.

I guess you might have to go Wilson in dynasty because of the organizational track record there, but I'll have to agree with the posters saying Miller looks smoother. I enjoy the way he runs.

Both of these guys are going to be good backs. For 2013 I think Miller has the inside track to more fantasy points.
See my thing with Miller vs Wilson is this... watch the video above with Wilson. You'll see him make moves, use his quickness, break tackles and never really go down at first contact. In this video of Miller's highlights last season he goes down at first contact almost every single touch and these are his 'best runs' of the year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7khPECxIbxY

He doesn't seem to possess the ability to really make guys miss or break through even basic arm tackles. He also seems to let his feet get ahead of himself as several times he trips or slips while trying to make a cut. He doesn't really plant his feet properly. If you look at the one run against Tennessee or the other run against the Colts you'll see what I mean. He may have similar combine numbers to Wilson (which really isn't true he only participated in 2 combine drills) but his numbers to me don't seem to translate into elite talent like they seem to on Wilson's tape. Miller seems to be able to run as far as the hole is willing to allow him to run. He doesn't create his own space like Wilson or any top back in the NFL does. That is the difference between an average starting back and an elite back in this league. Wilson can create space around him with his abilities, Miller (at least from what I can see in his Hurricanes and Dolphins footage) has yet to show he can do that. Until he can I'm putting him in the average category.

These were all concerns of him coming out of school and are seen in any pre-draft profile you look at on the kid here's the quote from NFL.com

WEAKNESSES

Miller has only one full season of tape and was rather ineffective as a runner prior to this year. He relies on speed and leg drive to gain yards. He won't be able to juke linebackers at the next level or bail himself out of bad spots with his feet.

He should be able to make things like this happen considering his size and measureables but he doesn't.
I've seen the highlights from both players. I own neither in any leagues. People often see what they want to see. Wilson looks reckless to me at times, and can run a little higher than I'd like on occasion. Miller looks smooth. I saw the couple of runs where he seemed to slip. That happens. Neither of these guys have much NFL tape to go off of, and a lot of Wilson's highlights were kick returns.

I also noticed Brown popping up in some of Wilson's videos, and I kept thinking how good he looked as well. Brown will be a factor for the Giants.

 
I think it's a lot closer than what the polls indicate, and I'm a Wilson owner. I agree that Brown will be a factor as long as he is healthy.

 
I think the talent is even. Wilson has more cons than Miller because of talent on the roster.
I'm not sure how you could say that the talent is roughly even between them. Miller is a good talent and better than his 4th round pedigree. But to say he is on Wilson's level in terms of pure talent is simply silly. Wilson's talent at the position is through the roof, Miller is a player who is fairly (imo) average in most measurable at the position besides speed. He doesn't have amazing movement skills, he's not going to make many guys miss and he doesn't break a ton of tackles. At least not from all the tape on him I've watched. Where as Wilson does all of that in spades.
Miller actually has the better measurables on paper.
Miller:

4.34 40, 35 vert, 10'00" broad, 4.08 40yd shuttle, 6.94 3 Cone Drill

Wilson:

4.38 40, 41 vert, 11'00" broad, 4.12 40yd shuttle. 7.09 3 Cone Drill

Pretty close in my opinion. Wilson is definitely more explosive (better vert and broad jump), while Miller is a tiny bit faster and a bit more agile.
Jerry Rice didn't have the greatest measurables. How they play on the field is vastly different to me.

 
gandalas said:
I think the talent is even. Wilson has more cons than Miller because of talent on the roster.
I'm not sure how you could say that the talent is roughly even between them. Miller is a good talent and better than his 4th round pedigree. But to say he is on Wilson's level in terms of pure talent is simply silly. Wilson's talent at the position is through the roof, Miller is a player who is fairly (imo) average in most measurable at the position besides speed. He doesn't have amazing movement skills, he's not going to make many guys miss and he doesn't break a ton of tackles. At least not from all the tape on him I've watched. Where as Wilson does all of that in spades.
Miller actually has the better measurables on paper.
Miller:

4.34 40, 35 vert, 10'00" broad, 4.08 40yd shuttle, 6.94 3 Cone Drill

Wilson:

4.38 40, 41 vert, 11'00" broad, 4.12 40yd shuttle. 7.09 3 Cone Drill

Pretty close in my opinion. Wilson is definitely more explosive (better vert and broad jump), while Miller is a tiny bit faster and a bit more agile.
Wilson ran a 4.49 at the combine. He ran sub 4.4 at his pro day but VTech doesn't release official pro-day results. But they are both "fast."

 

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