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Lamar Miller vs Mike Gillislee (2013 and beyond) (1 Viewer)

jacobo_moses

Footballguy
I recently acquired Lamar Miller in a Dyn league. Then the April Draft happened and the Dolphins spent a 5th Rnd Pick on Mike Gillislee RB from Florida. Then I see tweets like this from a DLF Staff member and the Dolphin beat writer and I'm very concerned.

:Omar Kelly@OmarKelly

10h
As much as I love Lamar Miller, I really feel Mike Gillislee could be the guy who wins that spot. He can do everything, including block.

Doug Veatch@Harahduh229 Apr
Lamar Miller could lose snaps to Gillislee due to his inferior pass protection skills.

So is Lamar Miller probably going to lose this starting gig to this Gillislee kid? Is he that good? If he is, why did so many Teams pass on him and he wasn't taken till the 5th Rnd?

Thanks guys.

 

EBF

Footballguy
I'm not too high on Gillislee myself. I think he'll wash out of the league pretty quickly.

 

Lucky Dolfan 81

Footballguy
Dolphins picked up Gillislee for depth. If Miller gets hurt we would only have Thomas behind him. And Thomas hasn't shown much at all in 2 years.

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
I'm not too high on Gillislee myself. I think he'll wash out of the league pretty quickly.
What's pretty quickly? Miami has Lamar miller and then Daniel Thomas who is gonna fall to No 3 on the depth chart pretty quick. i see Miami using Gillislee as their No 2 back for the next 3-4 years as long as he is on a rookie contract making minimum wage. that would mean he is a Lamar Miller tweak from seeing a lot of action, I wouldn't be so quick to believe every observation you make when the guy is in college. No one has the mIami job nailed down lock stock and barrel right now.

Lamar Miller would appear to have the inside track but Gillislee does well in pass protection, you can be sure that will get him on the field for 3rd down situations.

 

Steed

Footballguy
The dlf a nobody reporting news and is one of their worse staffers. go through his timeline tons of bad advice.

And Omar Kelly used to pimp Kory Sheets for a good year or two.

Consider the sources here.

 

EBF

Footballguy
I'm not too high on Gillislee myself. I think he'll wash out of the league pretty quickly.
What's pretty quickly? Miami has Lamar miller and then Daniel Thomas who is gonna fall to No 3 on the depth chart pretty quick. i see Miami using Gillislee as their No 2 back for the next 3-4 years as long as he is on a rookie contract making minimum wage. that would mean he is a Lamar Miller tweak from seeing a lot of action, I wouldn't be so quick to believe every observation you make when the guy is in college. No one has the mIami job nailed down lock stock and barrel right now.

Lamar Miller would appear to have the inside track but Gillislee does well in pass protection, you can be sure that will get him on the field for 3rd down situations.
The problem with a guy like Gillislee is that he's basically just keeping a seat warm on the 53 man roster. He's got below average size. Not a great deal of explosiveness. No real dynamic qualities that stand out in his highlights and game cuts. 5th round pick. Everything here points towards ---> backup caliber talent.

Any RB they draft next year will be a threat to him. Even some of their free agent pickups like Jonas Gray and Cameron Marshall could push him.

What's the average NFL career length? 2 years? That's because of guys like Gillislee. They make the roster for a year or two on the basis of their draft slot and a lack of competition, but they get pushed out of the picture pretty quickly as their teams continue to bring in draft picks and free agents to outcompete them.

 

az_prof

Footballguy
The dlf a nobody reporting news and is one of their worse staffers. go through his timeline tons of bad advice.And Omar Kelly used to pimp Kory Sheets for a good year or two.Consider the sources here.
:doh: :lmao:
Those aren't the only two. Everything I've seen out of Miami has been positive on Gillislee.

Of course, everybody is great this time of year.
EBF is probably right, but it isn't like Lamar Miller blew the roof off last year. You never know for sure what a rookie back is going to do in the NFL until you see him in the NFL. So, while I am not that high on Gillislee, he is worth a rookie third round flyer.

 

JackReacher

Footballguy
The dlf a nobody reporting news and is one of their worse staffers. go through his timeline tons of bad advice. And Omar Kelly used to pimp Kory Sheets for a good year or two.Consider the sources here.
I'm not familiar with the DLF staffer, but Omar is not very well respected. His last big scoop was that Dez Bryant was arrested in Miami. Turned out to be the Raiders Desmond Bryant. That said, as a Gator fan, anyone who watched the LSU game knows Gillislee can play some. We all expect it to be some sort of time share but this will be Lamar's show to start the season.
 
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Slapdash

Footballguy
I doubt Gillislee will ever become a main back in the NFL, but I think he is an underrated talent. I was always impressed when I watched him play in college.

I would be surprised if D. Thomas ends up over him in the depth chart. He should get some touches and a lot of work on passing downs. I can see 5-10 touches a game.

That said, Miller looks poised to have a big season.

 

gianmarco

Footballguy
I've posted my thoughts on this in quite a few spots, but I'll go ahead and recap here:

--Miller was a 4th round pick last year but, while there's nothing absolutely conclusive, many believe he fell due to injury concerns (shoulder) and was graded as a 1st round talent.

--Miami got rid of Reggie Bush despite him expressing significant desire to stay. When doing this, Miller and Thomas are about it in terms of capable RB depth

--Miami did not bring in a single FA

--Miami did not draft a RB until the 5th round.

A team doesn't do these things unless they have confidence in what Miller brings to the table. I can say with the utmost confidence that Lamar Miller will be THE starting RB on opening day in 2013.

Now, is it possible GIllislee is underrated by the NFL community and could end up proving he's worth more than his 5th round draft slot? Absolutely. But there is absolutely zero, zilch, nil chance he's starting at any point this year barring an injury to Miler or a complete epic collapse.

I see a lot of Gator fans talking about how good he is. He may have done well at the college level, but there is a reason he fell to the 5th round. Miami HAD to bring in someone (weren't going to stick with just Miller/Thomas) but the fact they waited so long to actually do so is a big neon sign saying this job is Miller's. If anything, Thomas has a lot more to worry about this pick than Miller.

And finally, while not the end-all, the guy ran a 4.55, only had a 30 inch vertical, and a 9'11 broad jump. He didn't impress in any of the workouts.

 

Slapdash

Footballguy
@ gianmarco:

My concern with your post is that people extrapolate that to mean that Miller will be getting normal RB1 touches. It is very possible that Philbin continues to emulate the GB approach of a lot of passing and a fair does of RBBC. They may just be undervaluing the whole position.

I dislike the Gators quite a bit, but anyone could see last year he was a spark on a pretty dismal offense.

 

gianmarco

Footballguy
@ gianmarco:

My concern with your post is that people extrapolate that to mean that Miller will be getting normal RB1 touches. It is very possible that Philbin continues to emulate the GB approach of a lot of passing and a fair does of RBBC. They may just be undervaluing the whole position.

I dislike the Gators quite a bit, but anyone could see last year he was a spark on a pretty dismal offense.
There are lots of college RBs that are sparks on their offense.

2012 rushing leaders in Div-1 NCAA

Look at those names. Notice most of them didn't get drafted despite being "sparks" for their teams. It takes a lot more than that to succeed in the NFL and his 5th round grade proves that. There are always exceptions, so I don't need to start hearing Morris or Foster's names, but the chances of guys drafted that late of being fantasy relevant are dismal. And, even if he does, the chances he has any significant workload in 2013 is barely above 0.

Notice I did not say that Miller is going to be a 350 carry RB. But this is Miller vs. GIllislee as a thread topic and the question was if Miller was going to lose the starting gig to him. The answer, with utmost certainty, is no ####### chance this year.

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
Gillislee is interesting because he poses no notable physical traits, however the guys playing behind him did and yet there was still a very noticeable difference between the Gator offense when Gillislee was playing and when he was not. The offense was significantly better when Gillislee was in there than it was when he was out (usually injured or tired) and guys that were a lot more physically gifted came in.

The only conclusion I can draw is that he has very good vision. Outside of that, he doesn't really have much shiftiness and runs like a power back but doesn't really have the build to run with power at the next level. I'm always leary of guys like that as their running style doesn't really translate to the next level and they often end up injured a lot.

That said, it's pretty silly to see people constantly bringing up that he was a 5th round pick as an instant write-off when they guy we're talking about him being no challenge for was a 4th round pick a year ago.

 

Concept Coop

Footballguy
I dislike the Gators quite a bit, but anyone could see last year he was a spark on a pretty dismal offense.
I love the Gators and disagree. I don't see many NFL quality traits in Gilly. He looked like just a guy. Miller is the more talented back and Gilly is less of a threat than the average NFL backup RB. If Miller doesn't keep the job, it will be his own doing. And Gillislee would not be the long-term answer, in my opinion.

Any Gilly buzz should be used to buy low on Miller and sell high on Gillislee.

 
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FF Ninja

Footballguy
The road does appear to be paved for a high workload for Miller, but his ADP is RB23 right now. I would not feel comfortable with him as my RB2. He had like 50 carries last year. I'm not opposed to gambling in the 5th or 6th round, but this one just doesn't feel right. Maybe I'm totally missing the boat here, but he's in my blindspot right now. Would love to see a well thought out case made for taking him in the early 5th (ADP of 49 overall).

 

Concept Coop

Footballguy
The road does appear to be paved for a high workload for Miller, but his ADP is RB23 right now. I would not feel comfortable with him as my RB2. He had like 50 carries last year. I'm not opposed to gambling in the 5th or 6th round, but this one just doesn't feel right. Maybe I'm totally missing the boat here, but he's in my blindspot right now. Would love to see a well thought out case made for taking him in the early 5th (ADP of 49 overall).
I think RB23 is a good price to pay. I am not sold on him being a long-term quality starter in the league. But the potential is there. He’s one of the youngest and most athletic starting RBs in the NFL. Based on just that, he’s got to be a top 15-20, at least, in my opinion. And I say this despite agreeing with you; he’s not proven by any means and I do have some concerns.

 

Adam Harstad

Moderator
I'm not too high on Gillislee myself. I think he'll wash out of the league pretty quickly.
What's pretty quickly? Miami has Lamar miller and then Daniel Thomas who is gonna fall to No 3 on the depth chart pretty quick. i see Miami using Gillislee as their No 2 back for the next 3-4 years as long as he is on a rookie contract making minimum wage. that would mean he is a Lamar Miller tweak from seeing a lot of action, I wouldn't be so quick to believe every observation you make when the guy is in college. No one has the mIami job nailed down lock stock and barrel right now. Lamar Miller would appear to have the inside track but Gillislee does well in pass protection, you can be sure that will get him on the field for 3rd down situations.
The problem with a guy like Gillislee is that he's basically just keeping a seat warm on the 53 man roster. He's got below average size. Not a great deal of explosiveness. No real dynamic qualities that stand out in his highlights and game cuts. 5th round pick. Everything here points towards ---> backup caliber talent. Any RB they draft next year will be a threat to him. Even some of their free agent pickups like Jonas Gray and Cameron Marshall could push him. What's the average NFL career length? 2 years? That's because of guys like Gillislee. They make the roster for a year or two on the basis of their draft slot and a lack of competition, but they get pushed out of the picture pretty quickly as their teams continue to bring in draft picks and free agents to outcompete them.
Depends a lot on how you count it. If you count every single rookie who got invited to camps for a cup of coffee, the average is about 3 years. If you only count guys who make the 53 man roster, the average is about 6.
 

MDSkinner

Footballguy
I'm not too high on Gillislee myself. I think he'll wash out of the league pretty quickly.
What's pretty quickly? Miami has Lamar miller and then Daniel Thomas who is gonna fall to No 3 on the depth chart pretty quick. i see Miami using Gillislee as their No 2 back for the next 3-4 years as long as he is on a rookie contract making minimum wage. that would mean he is a Lamar Miller tweak from seeing a lot of action, I wouldn't be so quick to believe every observation you make when the guy is in college. No one has the mIami job nailed down lock stock and barrel right now.

Lamar Miller would appear to have the inside track but Gillislee does well in pass protection, you can be sure that will get him on the field for 3rd down situations.
i realize this is only kind of related to the conversation at hand, but just curious as to why Daniel Thomas is a lock to fall to No. 3 on the depth chart so quickly? You being a Miami person may have some knowledge on this that I clearly don't but from an outsiders perspective it seems like Thomas though clearly not good enough to be an every down guy has shown some ability and seems like a reasonable #2 guy on a team.

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
I'm not too high on Gillislee myself. I think he'll wash out of the league pretty quickly.
What's pretty quickly? Miami has Lamar miller and then Daniel Thomas who is gonna fall to No 3 on the depth chart pretty quick. i see Miami using Gillislee as their No 2 back for the next 3-4 years as long as he is on a rookie contract making minimum wage. that would mean he is a Lamar Miller tweak from seeing a lot of action, I wouldn't be so quick to believe every observation you make when the guy is in college. No one has the mIami job nailed down lock stock and barrel right now.

Lamar Miller would appear to have the inside track but Gillislee does well in pass protection, you can be sure that will get him on the field for 3rd down situations.
i realize this is only kind of related to the conversation at hand, but just curious as to why Daniel Thomas is a lock to fall to No. 3 on the depth chart so quickly? You being a Miami person may have some knowledge on this that I clearly don't but from an outsiders perspective it seems like Thomas though clearly not good enough to be an every down guy has shown some ability and seems like a reasonable #2 guy on a team.
2nd round pick, has no speed, no moves, disaster pick. Gill can pass protect and with Clabo signing at RT, one has to assume Martin moves now to LT, a huge downgrade from Jake Long. You can be sure a guy like Gill(pass protect and soft hands) will be an immediate 3rd down back not Thomas. To me if you are the 3rd down back you are usually No 2 on the depth chart.

Drive 1

1st and 10-Miller

2nd and 5-Miller

3rd and short/goal-maybe Thomas at times but still Miller IMO.

3rd and 3/pass situation-Gill Gill Gill Gill IMO

Drive 2...same

Drive 3...I would expect Gill to see some carries on that drive to give Miller a breather. This is where I feel Gill will be the No 2 back, he will see more snaps because of his ability to pass protect and catch the football, he can catch the ball even if he won't take it to the house. I could also see Gill being used in the red zone or goal line because he poses a dual threat.

Distribution...Miller 240 carries we could assume, 200-220 would not be that shocking, he had but 50 last year. Gill 100-125 carries, 20-30 rec with a chance for more if he proves reliable as an outlet for Tannehill. Thomas will not be used a lot in 1st and 10 situations, he is mostly short yardage guy at this point.

You asked, that's my opinion based on a lot of mindless talk radio down here and some of the local beat writers plus my own game observations.

 

cstu

Footballguy
Adam Harstad said:
Adam Harstad, on 06 May 2013 - 10:37, said:

EBF, on 05 May 2013 - 20:12, said:

Ministry of Pain, on 05 May 2013 - 19:48, said:

EBF, on 05 May 2013 - 19:36, said:

I'm not too high on Gillislee myself. I think he'll wash out of the league pretty quickly.
What's pretty quickly? Miami has Lamar miller and then Daniel Thomas who is gonna fall to No 3 on the depth chart pretty quick. i see Miami using Gillislee as their No 2 back for the next 3-4 years as long as he is on a rookie contract making minimum wage. that would mean he is a Lamar Miller tweak from seeing a lot of action, I wouldn't be so quick to believe every observation you make when the guy is in college. No one has the mIami job nailed down lock stock and barrel right now.

Lamar Miller would appear to have the inside track but Gillislee does well in pass protection, you can be sure that will get him on the field for 3rd down situations.
The problem with a guy like Gillislee is that he's basically just keeping a seat warm on the 53 man roster. He's got below average size. Not a great deal of explosiveness. No real dynamic qualities that stand out in his highlights and game cuts. 5th round pick. Everything here points towards ---> backup caliber talent.

Any RB they draft next year will be a threat to him. Even some of their free agent pickups like Jonas Gray and Cameron Marshall could push him.

What's the average NFL career length? 2 years? That's because of guys like Gillislee. They make the roster for a year or two on the basis of their draft slot and a lack of competition, but they get pushed out of the picture pretty quickly as their teams continue to bring in draft picks and free agents to outcompete them.
Depends a lot on how you count it. If you count every single rookie who got invited to camps for a cup of coffee, the average is about 3 years. If you only count guys who make the 53 man roster, the average is about 6.
Edit: found the linkHere's another interesting one:

Quote

The average career length for a player who is selected for or plays in at least one Pro Bowl is 11.7 years. Of the 318 players who began careers between 1993 and 2002 and made the Pro Bowl at least once, 113 of those players – 36 percent – were on a club’s roster in 2010.
 
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MDSkinner

Footballguy
I'm not too high on Gillislee myself. I think he'll wash out of the league pretty quickly.
What's pretty quickly? Miami has Lamar miller and then Daniel Thomas who is gonna fall to No 3 on the depth chart pretty quick. i see Miami using Gillislee as their No 2 back for the next 3-4 years as long as he is on a rookie contract making minimum wage. that would mean he is a Lamar Miller tweak from seeing a lot of action, I wouldn't be so quick to believe every observation you make when the guy is in college. No one has the mIami job nailed down lock stock and barrel right now.

Lamar Miller would appear to have the inside track but Gillislee does well in pass protection, you can be sure that will get him on the field for 3rd down situations.
i realize this is only kind of related to the conversation at hand, but just curious as to why Daniel Thomas is a lock to fall to No. 3 on the depth chart so quickly? You being a Miami person may have some knowledge on this that I clearly don't but from an outsiders perspective it seems like Thomas though clearly not good enough to be an every down guy has shown some ability and seems like a reasonable #2 guy on a team.
2nd round pick, has no speed, no moves, disaster pick. Gill can pass protect and with Clabo signing at RT, one has to assume Martin moves now to LT, a huge downgrade from Jake Long. You can be sure a guy like Gill(pass protect and soft hands) will be an immediate 3rd down back not Thomas. To me if you are the 3rd down back you are usually No 2 on the depth chart.

Drive 1

1st and 10-Miller

2nd and 5-Miller

3rd and short/goal-maybe Thomas at times but still Miller IMO.

3rd and 3/pass situation-Gill Gill Gill Gill IMO

Drive 2...same

Drive 3...I would expect Gill to see some carries on that drive to give Miller a breather. This is where I feel Gill will be the No 2 back, he will see more snaps because of his ability to pass protect and catch the football, he can catch the ball even if he won't take it to the house. I could also see Gill being used in the red zone or goal line because he poses a dual threat.

Distribution...Miller 240 carries we could assume, 200-220 would not be that shocking, he had but 50 last year. Gill 100-125 carries, 20-30 rec with a chance for more if he proves reliable as an outlet for Tannehill. Thomas will not be used a lot in 1st and 10 situations, he is mostly short yardage guy at this point.

You asked, that's my opinion based on a lot of mindless talk radio down here and some of the local beat writers plus my own game observations.
I appreciate the opinion and the logic seems reasonable. I clearly do not get that sort of discussion where I live.

 

Slapdash

Footballguy
gianmarco said:
Slapdash said:
@ gianmarco:

My concern with your post is that people extrapolate that to mean that Miller will be getting normal RB1 touches. It is very possible that Philbin continues to emulate the GB approach of a lot of passing and a fair does of RBBC. They may just be undervaluing the whole position.

I dislike the Gators quite a bit, but anyone could see last year he was a spark on a pretty dismal offense.
There are lots of college RBs that are sparks on their offense.

2012 rushing leaders in Div-1 NCAA

Look at those names. Notice most of them didn't get drafted despite being "sparks" for their teams. It takes a lot more than that to succeed in the NFL and his 5th round grade proves that. There are always exceptions, so I don't need to start hearing Morris or Foster's names, but the chances of guys drafted that late of being fantasy relevant are dismal. And, even if he does, the chances he has any significant workload in 2013 is barely above 0.

Notice I did not say that Miller is going to be a 350 carry RB. But this is Miller vs. GIllislee as a thread topic and the question was if Miller was going to lose the starting gig to him. The answer, with utmost certainty, is no ####### chance this year.
I agree with your overall point, but there isn't a lot of guys on your list who performed like he did against defenses like LSU, UGA, and FSU.

 

Faust

MVP
Rotoworld:

OC Mike Sherman singled out Mike Gillislee as someone that has to step up in the wake of Daniel Thomas' ankle injury.

Gillislee, a fifth-round rookie out of Florida, hasn't played in a game all season. He'll compete with Marcus Thigpen for backup reps. However, we fully expect Lamar Miller to be an every-down back over the final five games, only coming off the field when he needs a breather. Gillislee barely cracked the roster coming out of training camp.


Source: Armando Salguero on Twitter
 

Todem

Footballguy
Millers window of opportunity is now fully wide open. Gillislee failed to impress me at all in his limited action this pre-season. He was not anything near what Miller can bring.

We shall see. But at least Thomas is out of the picture now and the coaching staff has no choice but to feed Miller a big helping of touches....which should have been the plan from the get go. When he get's 15 plus touches....he has done nothing but produce.

 

Faust

MVP
Rotoworld:

The Dolphins reportedly "aren't sure when or if" 2013 fifth-round pick Mike Gillislee will "become more than a third-stringer."

Even with Miami's 2013 run game stuck in mud, Gillislee earned just nine offensive snaps. The Dolphins don't have a surefire feature back on their current roster, and it's not a good sign that they don't even know whether Gillislee can be a backup. He's barely worth holding in normal-sized Dynasty leagues.


Source: Miami Herald
 

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