Lelie to stay away from Broncos Workouts (1 Viewer)

[SSOG]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/...4825201,00.html

The Broncos commence a three-day minicamp today at Dove Valley, giving the organization its final on-field tuneup of the offseason.

But one of the players who won't be participating figures to draw at least some of the focus away from the masses of massives sweating it out for more than two hours today through Saturday.

Receiver Ashley Lelie, who has boycotted the team's offseason workouts in an attempt to force a trade, once again will be absent.

The difference this time, unlike the 14 organized team sessions in May and June and conditioning sessions that have been ongoing since April, is these practices are mandatory and the team has the right to dole out fines for not participating.

Lelie can be penalized under current NFL Players' Association guidelines a maximum of $11,641 for missing the three-day session.

If his absence continues into training camp, which begins July 28, a step the receiver previously promised he'll take, the monetary hit escalates to $6,000 a day because he's under contract and his absence unexcused.

The likely monetary penalties in the short term won't dissuade Lelie, who has gone public about his displeasure with his role in the offense, the Broncos' acquisition of receiver Javon Walker and perceptions he has underachieved instead of being miscast in the system.

Lelie was sparse in his comments Wednesday regarding his situation, but he did acknowledge he again will be a no-show.

"Nothing different," he said. "My agent really doesn't want me to speak on the matter. But, yeah, nothing's changed."

Lelie's representative, Peter Schaffer, and the Broncos have been working to try to find a willing partner in a player-for-player swap.

Lelie has led the NFL the past two seasons in yards per catch.

So far, the Broncos have been rebuffed in acquiring a player on their wish list or declined to pull the trigger.

The New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles and Chicago Bears are among the teams the Broncos previously have been engaged in talks. But nothing appears to be imminent.

Schaffer and Broncos general manager Ted Sundquist did not return phone calls.

Lelie, a first-round pick in 2002, had been working out at Athletes' Performance, a training facility in Tempe, Ariz., earlier in the offseason.

But he has moved his base to the center's facility in Carson, Calif., to get more football-intensive training while mixing in weight work in a five-days-a-week regimen.

As part of his routine, Lelie is partnered with Charles Collins, who specializes in working with receivers as a former position coach at Santa Monica (Calif.) College and counts current NFL players Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson, Keyshawn Johnson and Steve Smith among his clients list.

But for Lelie, who maintains he's in top shape, it's admittedly not the same as going through the paces with teammates.

"It's kind of hard sitting back and watching and being out of football," Lelie said. "It gives me a whole different perspective on everything.

"I miss it. And watching things makes me more hungry to be on the field."

Just not with the Broncos, apparently.

Lelie's no-show stand, coupled with Walker's ongoing recovery from a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee, has allowed 2004 second-round pick Darius Watts to re-emerge as a serious contender for playing time next season if he can duplicate his offseason performance during training camp.

Walker will not be a full-time participant this week, which will allow Watts, David Terrell, Charlie Adams and rookie Brandon Marshall to get more repetitions and chances to prove their value.

Besides Walker and Lelie, only defensive tackle Amon Gordon, who's on the mend from microfracture knee surgery that ended his 2005 season, and rookie wideout Domenik Hixon, who underwent an offseason procedure to repair his left foot, could miss time in the next few days.

But Hixon's agent, Vance Larimer, said his client is ready to go after participating in only one full-speed workout during team activities.

And...http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4016787

Agent Peter Schaffer picked up his phone Wednesday afternoon, and was soon on the receiving end of a question about one of his clients, Broncos wide receiver Ashley Lelie.

Asked if Lelie might be at the Broncos' mandatory mini-camp that starts today, Schaffer said, "No updates. We have nothing to say."

And there you have it. Drawing from inference and recent history, it appears Lelie will not take part in the opening session of the three-day mini-camp at Dove Valley.

Unhappy over what he feels is a noncompetitive situation at the Broncos' No. 1 receiver position this season, partly because of the team's offseason acquisition of Javon Walker from the Green Bay Packers, Lelie is threatening to sit out the season unless he is traded.

Lelie, 26, missed the Broncos' first 14 offseason optional workouts. If he does not show up today, he could be fined by the Broncos.

The Broncos entertained trade offers for Lelie during the April draft but could not find a suitable partner.

Last season, Lelie's production slipped to 42 receptions, 770 yards and one touchdown - down from 54 catches, 1,084 yards and seven touchdowns in 2004. Even if Lelie were to enter Dove Valley a happy camper, he could have a tough fight just to be the team's No. 3 receiver, behind Walker and Rod Smith.

The offseason re-emergence of Darius Watts, whom Broncos coach Mike Shana- han has praised, indicates Lelie might have a battle on his hands.

Other than Lelie, the Broncos indicated Wednesday they are expecting the full roster to attend today, with no players having asked for excused absences.

Walker, in the late stages of rehabilitating a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee, is hoping to be ready for full-contact practices by the team's July 28 start of training camp. Walker's co-agent, Lamont Smith, said Wednesday he was unsure of Lelie's condition.

 

[-OZ-]

While it doesn't make too much sense to me, might Denver and Tennessee look at a Kinney/Lelie swap? There's rumors that Denver is looking to acquire Kinney.http://afcwest.blogspot.com/2006/07/denver-exploring-options-at-te.html

 

[Cecil Lammey]

A trade is closer than they're letting on. He should be gone before training camp.

 

[Sabertooth]

Run away! Run away!

 

[Blackjacks]

A trade is closer than they're letting on. He should be gone before training camp.

Any quesses on who they're looking to get Cecil?

 

[msommer]

While it doesn't make too much sense to me, might Denver and Tennessee look at a Kinney/Lelie swap? There's rumors that Denver is looking to acquire Kinney.http://afcwest.blogspot.com/2006/07/denver-exploring-options-at-te.html

From the Titans point of view this has up and downside#1 you get something for Kinney, with Troupe, Scaife and Guenther there is depth at TE

#2 BUT there is also depth at WR - Calico, Roydell, Roby, Brandon Jones (maybe next year only), Wade and Orr - should not be hard to find a WR3.

#3 Lelie would be a kickass #3

#4 BUT Lelie wants to be a #1

#5 Lelie's contract is very affordable

#6 BUT he will want a new deal to play

Big question for the Titans - what to do if (when?) Bennett gets injured. As shown last year unless one of the young guys step up there is little behind Givens that could take that role.

#2 and #6 might be possible to solve although the Titans will have to use a bit of coin for signing Vince Young. 4) is more problematic. Drew Bennett signed an extension the year McCareins was allowed to go to NYJ - so he is in his third year on that contract. Not sure how long it was, Bennetts cap (and always being banged up with injuries) might mean he could be cut next year (when the cap rises significantly again) and replaced with Lelie, solving #4.

Whichever of the youngsters they keep (and they could then keep 3 of them) could then fill #3 next year.

What if they traded one of those guys, and Kinney to Denver - that might make sense to both parties. The Titans gets rid of two players that means they can keep two different players without losing much depth, get Lelie, The Broncos get rid of the Lelie problem, gain an upgrade at TE and at WR3/4 (Todd Devoe???)

 

[There it is]

ESPN just reported that Lelie did not show up today.

 

[PatsWillWin]

#3 Lelie would be a kickass #3#4 BUT Lelie wants to be a #1#5 Lelie's contract is very affordable#6 BUT he will want a new deal to play

I think these are the main obstacles for a Lelie trade to ANY team. Presumably if you trade for him, you're granting his wish of being a # 1 WR and getting paid as such...but I doubt many think he has accomplished enough to be able to stroll in and get handed the responsibility and the $ of a WR1.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

the point was already raised that whoever gets lelie will need to give him a larger contract, otherwise you are just renting him for a year.

does TEN have the cap space to give him a big contract (especially when they just gave one to givens, & it is unclear if he would be viewed as upgrade over bennett)...

and if he isn't viewed as upgrade over bennett, he would be right back where he is now... a WR3...

lelie is, at best (until proven otherwise), a limited WR2 who is at his best on deep routes but flawed on intermediate routes & as a blocker... doesn't sound like the kind of guy that can dictate terms & get a monster contract...

i agree it makes sense for DEN to try & move him, i'm just not sure if he will be able to command a lot in return...

he does have the high pedigree (taken close to stallworth in first round as highest selected WRs in their class), & maybe in a system where he is deep threat & not asked to block a lot, he could thrive. brandon "the matrix" lloyd isn't commonly thought of as a great intermediate route runner or enthusiastic blocker, but he got a decent chunk of change from WAS (but than they overpay almost everybody)...

it is important that he goes to a team where there isn't too big a disconnect between what lelie thinks he is worth & what team thinks he is worth... otherwise that isn't a god fit for getting a new contract done...

he might be upgrade at WR2 in PHI (is pinkston a devestating blocker?), but i'm not sure they would want to pay him a lot... & not sure what they could offer in trade... lelie might be upgrade at WR2 for giants, with toomer getting old & moss better fit as WR3 in slot. maybe ATL (upgrade over jenkins?), & they have duckett, who might surprise in DEN attack. KC (upgrade over parker?), SD (mccardell getting old, parker not a stellar WR2 & vince jackson unknown commodity), JAX could be candidate as they may have one of more worrisome WR corps in NFL with abrupt departure of jimmy smith, possibly NE depending plans for branch, BUF has very unsettled WR2 situation & maybe even MIA (upgrade over booker?)...

 

[-OZ-]

he might be upgrade at WR2 in PHI (is pinkston a devestating blocker?), but i'm not sure they would want to pay him a lot... & not sure what they could offer in trade... lelie might be upgrade at WR2 for giants, with toomer getting old & moss better fit as WR3 in slot. maybe ATL (upgrade over jenkins?), & they have duckett, who might surprise in DEN attack. KC (upgrade over parker?), SD (mccardell getting old, parker not a stellar WR2 & vince jackson unknown commodity), JAX could be candidate as they may have one of more worrisome WR corps in NFL with abrupt departure of jimmy smith, possibly NE depending plans for branch, BUF has very unsettled WR2 situation & maybe even MIA (upgrade over booker?)...

I may wrong, but I don't think KC is a possibility.Detroit could use another 1st round WR.

 

[Sabertooth]

he might be upgrade at WR2 in PHI (is pinkston a devestating blocker?), but i'm not sure they would want to pay him a lot... & not sure what they could offer in trade... lelie might be upgrade at WR2 for giants, with toomer getting old & moss better fit as WR3 in slot. maybe ATL (upgrade over jenkins?), & they have duckett, who might surprise in DEN attack. KC (upgrade over parker?), SD (mccardell getting old, parker not a stellar WR2 & vince jackson unknown commodity), JAX could be candidate as they may have one of more worrisome WR corps in NFL with abrupt departure of jimmy smith, possibly NE depending plans for branch, BUF has very unsettled WR2 situation & maybe even MIA (upgrade over booker?)...

I may wrong, but I don't think KC is a possibility.Detroit could use another 1st round WR.

The sad part is that this is true.

 

[wannabee]

Broncos | Lelie could be fined if absent from training camp

Published Thu Jul 6 5:46:00 p.m. ET 2006

(KFFL) Len Pasquarelli, of ESPN.com, reports if Denver Broncos WR Ashley Lelie does sit out the team's training camp, which begins July 28, he could be subjected to daily fines for the absences. There is a possibility the Broncos could attempt to recover a prorated share of Lelie's $3.3 million signing bonus that he received in 2002.

 

[BoltBacker]

#3 Lelie would be a kickass #3

#4 BUT Lelie wants to be a #1

#5 Lelie's contract is very affordable

#6 BUT he will want a new deal to play

I think these are the main obstacles for a Lelie trade to ANY team. Presumably if you trade for him, you're granting his wish of being a # 1 WR and getting paid as such...but I doubt many think he has accomplished enough to be able to stroll in and get handed the responsibility and the $ of a WR1.

You could have said the same thing about Javon Walker being traded. Javon wanted all-pro WR $ before proving his one big year wasn't a fluke and he will be the same after injury. Turns out he accepted a contract extention that will be worthless if he doesn't peform like an all-pro.Seems likely to me a similar scenario plays out for Lelie. He'll go to some team and his agent will trumpet some huge contract extention that has very little money guaranteed and if Lelie doesn't perform like a #1WR he'll either be asked to accept a pay-cut or be released outright in the future. Lelie just wants out of town and right now he's a pretty big distraction for a team that expects to play deep into the playoffs.

 

[pettifogger]

Basically Lelie is showing the rest of the league that he's hard to get along with, and that they should not trade for him because he has an inflated opinion of himself and will be nothing but trouble.

Broncos moving on without Lelie but would welcome him back

By ARNIE STAPLETON, AP Sports Writer

July 6, 2006

DENVER (AP) -- Mike Shanahan knows just the place receiver Ashley Lelie could compete for the No. 1 job he covets so much that he's boycotting the Broncos' minicamp: Denver.

"If you want to compete to be the No. 1 guy, why not be here? Why not be here in camp?" Shanahan said after the Broncos began their three-day practice session Thursday. "If you're afraid of competing against a No. 1 guy who's 35 years old (in Rod Smith)?

"I don't think you're going to find a better scenario than what he has here."

Lelie wants to be a featured pass-catcher in somebody's offense and is convinced he'll never get that opportunity in Denver. He wasn't pleased with the Broncos' interest in Terrell Owens over the winter and declined to attend the club's offseason conditioning program, forgoing a $100,000 contract incentive to work out instead in Tempe, Ariz.

Ironically, during the winter and spring he worked out with former Pro Bowl receiver Javon Walker, who joined the Broncos in a draft-day trade from Green Bay. Walker, who missed most of last season with a torn knee ligament, has a lucrative new contract that will kick in next March if his comeback goes well in 2006.

Lelie, who is entering the final season of the rookie contract he signed as the 19th overall pick in 2002, had 42 catches for 770 yards and one TD last year, numbers that were down from 2004, when he racked up 1,084 yards and seven touchdowns on 54 receptions.

"We drafted him as a No. 1 draft choice. We would love him to be the No. 1 wide receiver. That's why we drafted him No. 1. He's done some good things for us. I think there's still a big upside for him. I just think he's making a bad decision," Shanahan said.

"It would be different if people were beating down the walls to get him, but they're not," Shanahan said. "Why not come in here and try to do what you can do and make a name for yourself at a place that drafted you No. 1?"

Lelie and his agent, Peter Schaffer, say there's nothing new in their stance: Lelie wants a trade.

Smith said he wants Lelie to return to Denver: "I can't tell anybody else how to go and handle their business. I just want to see him in the football camp. I would rather see him on a football field with us."

Shanahan isn't ready to give up on Lelie.

"He'd still have an opportunity here if he decided to come back," Shanahan said. "I'm not saying I wouldn't be a little tougher on him -- I'm just joking."

But he's serious about fining him.

Lelie could be out as much as $12,000 for missing the three days of workouts. Once training camp starts later this month, he could be fined $6,000 for each day he stays away.

"I really haven't been reaching out, to be honest with you. Because he won't return my phone calls," Shanahan said.

With Lelie absent and Walker limited, several young receivers have gotten plenty of chances to impress the coaches during the offseason workouts, and third-year pro Darius Watts has taken advantage.

Walker ran routes Thursday but won't face defensive backs until training camp.

"He looks like he's in pretty good shape," Shanahan said. "He's making some strides. He did most of the drill work. We didn't do any team work with him. I think he could have. But we have a plan over the next three weeks to keep working him like he's working now and hopefully, by the first day of camp, he's ready to go full speed."

 

[Slinger]

Would now be a good time to trade for him? Can't imagine his value being any lower unless he sits out all year.

 

[Couch Potato]

Pretty hard to argue with Pettifogger's comments or Shanahan's comments.

Lelie and his agent are just burying his career. Sad.

 

[Couch Potato]

Would now be a good time to trade for him? Can't imagine his value being any lower unless he sits out all year.

Depends on how you view his worth, and how the current owner views his worth. Depends on what type of league too. I suppose in a dynasty league he may still have value, but at this point in redraft, not much.I'm an odd sort who just doesn't like seeing guys like these on my roster. I had him on a dynasty roster and flat out cut him this offseason. I have a pretty strong roster, but I could have probably scrounged around for a trade partner instead of cutting him. I just wanted him gone so I didn't bother. If the Lelie owner in your league is like me obviously you could get him for a song, but I'm sure I'm an exception.

To me, he's a WR3 who has not shown he's worthy of being more than that, and will probably end up WR4 in Denver if he holds out part of training camp. In a redraft league, I sure wouldn't give up anything of value for him. His only real value this year is if he gets traded to a situatin where he can start and be productive right away, and the more time passes, the less likely that appears.

 

[Slinger]

Thanks for the reply CP. It's always good to see what other FF players are thinking. I pretty much agree with you, even though I would never drop him. I may try to trade for him in my league that allows you to carry a lot of players on the roster.

I agree that it's a pain having players like this on your team, but if they can score for you, that's all you, in theory, should worry about.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

A trade is closer than they're letting on.  He should be gone before training camp.

Any quesses on who they're looking to get Cecil?

Word is a TE is the best bet. It's all a guessing game at this point, although there are rumblings about a trade being close. Let's look at the teams the Broncos have discussed a trade with:

San Francisco

Tampa Bay

New England Patriots

Chicago Bears

Philadelphia Eagles

San Francisco deal was for draft pick

Tampa was approached on draft day, no go for a 3rd rounder

New England has a deep TE corps

Chicago for picks

Eagles for picks

It should be interesting to see how things unfold.

 

[BoltBacker]

A trade is closer than they're letting on. He should be gone before training camp.

Any quesses on who they're looking to get Cecil?

Word is a TE is the best bet. It's all a guessing game at this point, although there are rumblings about a trade being close. Let's look at the teams the Broncos have discussed a trade with:

San Francisco

Tampa Bay

New England Patriots

Chicago Bears

Philadelphia Eagles

San Francisco deal was for draft pick

Tampa was approached on draft day, no go for a 3rd rounder

New England has a deep TE corps

Chicago for picks

Eagles for picks

It should be interesting to see how things unfold.

It's funny how opinions of certain players swing so wildly on this board from season to season. I don't think Lelie is a lot better or worse player than he was last year at this time, yet last year everyone was sure he was a #1 WR with a lot of potential and this offseason people are cutting him.I'd say he has a very good chance of starting this season if he goes to SF, NE, CHI or PHI. In reality he's probably start for about half the teams in the NFL if he went on their roster.

 

[cstu]

Pretty hard to argue with Pettifogger's comments or Shanahan's comments.

Lelie and his agent are just burying his career. Sad.

How so? I'd say his career is buried if he stays in DEN and is the #3 receiver. At least he has a chance to go where he is wanted and be a starter.

 

[SSOG]

Would now be a good time to trade for him? Can't imagine his value being any lower unless he sits out all year.

Depends on how you view his worth, and how the current owner views his worth. Depends on what type of league too. I suppose in a dynasty league he may still have value, but at this point in redraft, not much.I'm an odd sort who just doesn't like seeing guys like these on my roster. I had him on a dynasty roster and flat out cut him this offseason. I have a pretty strong roster, but I could have probably scrounged around for a trade partner instead of cutting him. I just wanted him gone so I didn't bother. If the Lelie owner in your league is like me obviously you could get him for a song, but I'm sure I'm an exception.

To me, he's a WR3 who has not shown he's worthy of being more than that, and will probably end up WR4 in Denver if he holds out part of training camp. In a redraft league, I sure wouldn't give up anything of value for him. His only real value this year is if he gets traded to a situatin where he can start and be productive right away, and the more time passes, the less likely that appears.

I think this is WAAAAAY too extreme. He has a 1,000 yard receiving season! He's led the league in ypc 2 years in a row! He's one of the best WR2s in the league. If he became a full-time WR3, then he would be the best career WR3 in the history of the NFL. I mean, Terry Glenn really only has one aspect to his game, too- going deep- and he isn't even as good at that as Lelie is, yet somehow he's a fantastic #2 and Lelie is a WR3, maybe WR4?

 

[SSOG]

Pretty hard to argue with Pettifogger's comments or Shanahan's comments.

Lelie and his agent are just burying his career. Sad.

How so? I'd say his career is buried if he stays in DEN and is the #3 receiver. At least he has a chance to go where he is wanted and be a starter.

At this point, no matter what happens, he'll be out of Denver- it's just a question of whether he's out this year or next. However, if he holds out, then when he gets out of Denver with the reputation of being a whiny malcontent who isn't willing to work and compete for his share rather than just have it handed to him, while if he doesn't hold out, then teams look at him as a guy who got put in a bad situation and made the best of it.

 

[Couch Potato]

To me, he's a WR3 who has not shown he's worthy of being more than that, and will probably end up WR4 in Denver if he holds out part of training camp. In a redraft league, I sure wouldn't give up anything of value for him. His only real value this year is if he gets traded to a situatin where he can start and be productive right away, and the more time passes, the less likely that appears.

I think this is WAAAAAY too extreme. He has a 1,000 yard receiving season! He's led the league in ypc 2 years in a row! He's one of the best WR2s in the league. If he became a full-time WR3, then he would be the best career WR3 in the history of the NFL. I mean, Terry Glenn really only has one aspect to his game, too- going deep- and he isn't even as good at that as Lelie is, yet somehow he's a fantastic #2 and Lelie is a WR3, maybe WR4?

First, I'm admittedly down on this guy and don't mind a bit being subjective about him. He's had plenty of time to establish himself as the #1 in town, opposite a 36 year old WR, and last year he instead regressed. So, they brought in another WR and rather than sucking it up and battling for his starting job (not to mention hanging in there until the 36 year old hangs 'em up), he pouts and holds out on a contract he signed because he's not been annointed #1. Poor baby. Did I mention he regressed last year??? So screw him. Let him rot on his living room sofa. I hope he doesn't get traded.Now, as far as his very high YPC is concerned, that says a lot more about his limited one dimensional 'go deep' status than it says about his ability to be a complete receiver. It's not a positive stat in his case, it's a negative one which says he's no good doing much other than running fly patterns. He's regressed since the 1,000 yard season, and he's absolutely NOT one of the best WR2s in the league. If he was, Javon Walker would be playing somewhere else and not traded to Denver to shore up a position where Lelie failed. Then you said "...he would be the best career WR3 in the history of the NFL." Now you're just getting silly, and that doesn't even deserve a response.

He's a pouter who, if he gets traded, will be as one-dimensional with his new team as he has been in Denver. He'll never be a #1, and as we approach mid-July I don't see a team in the league pushing aside one of their current starters to hand this clown anything. His new team, if there is a trade, will remember how he handled his exit in Denver and make him earn anything he gets. He's just not all that special - he'll be average anywhere - and to believe otherwise is the result of simply being too much of a Denver homer.

 

[SSOG]

To me, he's a WR3 who has not shown he's worthy of being more than that, and will probably end up WR4 in Denver if he holds out part of training camp. In a redraft league, I sure wouldn't give up anything of value for him. His only real value this year is if he gets traded to a situatin where he can start and be productive right away, and the more time passes, the less likely that appears.

I think this is WAAAAAY too extreme. He has a 1,000 yard receiving season! He's led the league in ypc 2 years in a row! He's one of the best WR2s in the league. If he became a full-time WR3, then he would be the best career WR3 in the history of the NFL. I mean, Terry Glenn really only has one aspect to his game, too- going deep- and he isn't even as good at that as Lelie is, yet somehow he's a fantastic #2 and Lelie is a WR3, maybe WR4?

First, I'm admittedly down on this guy and don't mind a bit being subjective about him. He's had plenty of time to establish himself as the #1 in town, opposite a 36 year old WR, and last year he instead regressed. So, they brought in another WR and rather than sucking it up and battling for his starting job (not to mention hanging in there until the 36 year old hangs 'em up), he pouts and holds out on a contract he signed because he's not been annointed #1. Poor baby. Did I mention he regressed last year??? So screw him. Let him rot on his living room sofa. I hope he doesn't get traded.

I agree he's whiny and should stop pouting and COMPETE like he says he wants to. I agree that Denver should just say screw you and refuse to trade him. I disagree with your assertion that he regressed. Denver attempted 56 fewer passes in 2005 than in 2006. More notably, Denver reined in its offense in a big way- lots of shorter passes, fewer shots down the field. They were trying to limit Plummer's mistakes. The result was that Plummer had the lowest INT% in the league... but he also averaged .4 fewer yards per attempt. I think Lelie was just as good going deep last year, but he definitely improved his blocking. I'd say, on the whole, he played BETTER last year than in 2004- whether his numbers reflect it or not.

Now, as far as his very high YPC is concerned, that says a lot more about his limited one dimensional 'go deep' status than it says about his ability to be a complete receiver. It's not a positive stat in his case, it's a negative one which says he's no good doing much other than running fly patterns. He's regressed since the 1,000 yard season, and he's absolutely NOT one of the best WR2s in the league. If he was, Javon Walker would be playing somewhere else and not traded to Denver to shore up a position where Lelie failed. Then you said "...he would be the best career WR3 in the history of the NFL." Now you're just getting silly, and that doesn't even deserve a response.

Denver traded for Walker after Lelie started trying to force his way out of town. Denver didn't trade for Walker because they felt Lelie was inadequate as a WR2, they traded for Walker because they felt that Lelie would be long gone soon.Also, I challenge you to name ten #2 WRs that are better than Lelie. Heck, I think he's even better than the #1 guy on a couple of teams.

He's a pouter who, if he gets traded, will be as one-dimensional with his new team as he has been in Denver. He'll never be a #1, and as we approach mid-July I don't see a team in the league pushing aside one of their current starters to hand this clown anything. His new team, if there is a trade, will remember how he handled his exit in Denver and make him earn anytrhing he gets. He's just not all that special - he'll be average anywhere - and to believe otherwise is the result of simply being too much of a Denver homer.

I think Lelie is a very bad short-to-intermediate receiving option. I believe he needs to work on his hands still. I believe he's a good blocker, but not a devastating blocker. I also believe he's one of the top-5 deep threats in the entire NFL- and the numbers bear me out. I watch the games. I see the stress that puts on the opposing defenses. They play differently when Lelie's on the field. Lelie's a big reason why Denver's offense is so much better between the 20s than it is in the red zone- because defenses are having to account for Lelie every play. Even if they don't throw it to him, it opens things up up front. I see the impact that Lelie has on the game whether he's catching the ball or not, and I would argue that there are very few WR2s that will have a comparable impact on the game as Ashley Lelie.

 

[Couch Potato]

SSOG, first, I want to say that you are a very thorough and solid poster. In fact I'd go so far as to say sometimes you are over-thorough, thinking back to reading some of your week-long Dayne/Bell debates with guys. I have a lot of respect for you.

My style isn't to get drawn into such debates though. I give my opinion, as I've done, and try to move on. I'm not going to accept any challenge to name ten #2 WRs that are better than Lelie, though I think that would be pretty easy. It'd be pointless though because my choices would just be disagreed with, we'd conclude nothing, and keep this debate alive.

I've said my peace on Lelie, I've made my own judgement on him based on his meager 42 receptions and 1 TD as a starter opposite a 36 year old guy last year, not being put into routes that called for making the tough receptions in traffic, and then whining that he isn't being considered a complete WR (i.e., a #1). I think his play and then his demeanor this offseason show a lack of something, and that something will always keep him from being more than a role player. So, I've washed my hands of him and will move on. I'm happy to have cut him. There are lots of role players in the league capable of 42 receptions, and I don't have to think 'this guy has no heart' every time I see the name on my roster.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on what Lelie will become in the future. I think he will always be average and no more. You think he has a lot of upside. One thing I know for sure is that if you are right I'll never be one to benefit from it.

Be well.

 

[msommer]

Why is it that everyone is refering to Walker as WR2?

Is there any doubt that when Rod Smith hangs them up he is the man?

Sure, in 2006 at best he is 1b - but will Rod Smith really play as long (as WR1) as Jerry Rice?

2006 Rod is the man until proven otherwise. Walker is WR2 (or 1b). Lelie, if he stays and plays is WR3.

2007, at the very least Walker should be 1b

 

[ffdude]

wah wah wah...Lelie's just a baby. If he wants a shot a being a #1 wr, then he needs to act like and play like one. Hey Ashley, get off you whining baby butt, go practice like a man who signed a contract should, and PROVE to folks that you deserve your props.

Holding out and whining isnt going to cut it in the NFL--especially if you really havent done that much with the playing time you have had. Lelie, Shut up and play!

 

[SSOG]

SSOG, first, I want to say that you are a very thorough and solid poster. In fact I'd go so far as to say sometimes you are over-thorough, thinking back to reading some of your week-long Dayne/Bell debates with guys. I have a lot of respect for you.

My style isn't to get drawn into such debates though. I give my opinion, as I've done, and try to move on. I'm not going to accept any challenge to name ten #2 WRs that are better than Lelie, though I think that would be pretty easy. It'd be pointless though because my choices would just be disagreed with, we'd conclude nothing, and keep this debate alive.

I've said my peace on Lelie, I've made my own judgement on him based on his meager 42 receptions and 1 TD as a starter opposite a 36 year old guy last year, not being put into routes that called for making the tough receptions in traffic, and then whining that he isn't being considered a complete WR (i.e., a #1). I think his play and then his demeanor this offseason show a lack of something, and that something will always keep him from being more than a role player. So, I've washed my hands of him and will move on. I'm happy to have cut him. There are lots of role players in the league capable of 42 receptions, and I don't have to think 'this guy has no heart' every time I see the name on my roster.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on what Lelie will become in the future. I think he will always be average and no more. You think he has a lot of upside. One thing I know for sure is that if you are right I'll never be one to benefit from it.

Be well.

First off, I know and respect that it's not your style to get drawn into big debates. To be completely honest, most of the time I present strong arguements, I'm not doing it to sway the person I'm arguing with. Usually, when I'm arguing with someone, they're very set in their opinions, and I'm very set in mine, and nothing that either of us can say will change the other person's mind. I mostly type out my arguements for the sake of the THIRD guy- the guy whose mind ISN'T made up yet, and who is reading the thread looking for some information one way or another so they can draw their own conclusions. I respect your opinion, I respect that it's a perfectly valid opinion and you are every bit as likely to be right as I am. I'm not arguing with you to try to change your mind- I'm just arguing with you to get my viewpoints out there for public review.You can say that Ashley Lelie is undeserving of a job as a wedgebuster on special teams and, much as I disagree with you, I still respect that you're a very guy and it's difference of opinions like those that make coming to this site worthwhile. If I wanted everyone to agree with me, I'd take up the habit of talking to myself in the mirror.

I also think you're misunderstanding my position. I don't think Lelie has a lot of upside. I don't think he'll ever be even AVERAGE in the short-to-intermediate passing game. I think he's doomed to a career as a one-trick pony, and he'll never be anything more than a very good WR2. I think any team that pays him WR1 money is, to put it mildly, out of its mind. I just think that, as far as WR2s go, there are very few capable of impacting a game as much as Lelie does whether he catches the ball or not.

 

[DaVinci]

Update

Broncos Looking For Fast Guy With Cement Hands To Replace Ashley Lelie

DENVER--With receiver Ashley Lelie holding out of minicamp in an effort to force a trade, the Denver Broncos are looking for a receiver to replace him. They're not looking for an All-Pro or future Hall of Famer, just somebody with blazing speed and cement hands that can run decoy routes for Rod Smith.

“We definitely need another warm body in there to take Ashley’s place,” coach Mike Shanahan told a group of reporters yesterday. “Obviously it doesn’t have to be a top tier receiver because Ashley’s not a top tier receiver. Cement hands? No problem. Ashley had cement hands and we really liked him. Luckily nobody else in the league likes him, so he’ll probably be back here for training camp running like a gazelle and being hit in the back of the head with passes. He’ll have a shot at the starting job, though. He just won’t get it.”

Lelie’s decision to skip minicamp was the result of frustration over his role with the team. He wanted to be the number one receiver, but the team’s offseason courtship of Terrell Owens and subsequent signing of Javon Walker indicated that they had other plans. Now Lelie wants to be traded to a team where he can be at the top of the depth chart.

“I want to be a starting receiver. I want to be the top guy,” Lelie said in an interview with CBS4 Denver. “I have all the tools: I’m quick, I run great routes, and despite what everyone says, I have great hands. I’m one of the best in football and they should send me somewhere I can prove it. And no, I don’t want to compete for the top spot here in Denver. I want it handed to me before I even put on shoulder pads. Is that too much to ask?”

Lelie said he was “shocked and angered” when the Broncos began courting other receivers after last year.

“It was a slap in my face when they went after those other guys,” said Lelie. “Any player in my position would be doing the same thing- except for Rod Smith, of course. He’s such a goody-goody. All he cares about is the team. Well of course that’s all he cares about. He’s the number one receiver. But how can you care as a number two or three? It’s like you’re not even on the team. You might as well be the wide receivers coach. No offense to our wide receivers coach, of course, whoever he is.”

Rod Smith is indeed excited about the Broncos chances this season. However, he would be more excited if his friend, Ashley Lelie, would return to camp and join the team. Smith has been a mentor to Lelie since he came into the league in 2002.

“It’s disappointing to see Ashley holding out like this,” said Smith, entering his 11th year in the NFL. “He’s sabotaging his future with that behavior. Ashley, if you’re listening, please come back to camp. Come here and continue being a dependable backup and continue cashing your checks and be happy. You can even compete for the starting job. Of course, if you get it, I will leave this stinking team in protest and never come back.”

One candidate to take Lelie’s place on the depth chart is receiver Darius Watts, a 2004 draft pick who has impressed coach Shanahan in workouts so far. Watts sees Lelie’s departure as an opportunity to make his own mark on the team.

“If Ashley doesn’t come back, that’s fine,” said Watts, a former second round pick. “I just appreciate the opportunity to show this coaching staff what I can do. All I really want is to help this team attain it’s goal of winning a Super Bowl. I don’t need to be a number one guy. Not this year anyway. See, unlike Ashley, I’m going to use this year to build my case to be a top receiver by having a great year. It’s called ‘leverage.’ Next year I can rake these ####ers over the coals.”

 

[JayMan]

"We definitely need another warm body in there to take Ashley’s place,” coach Mike Shanahan told a group of reporters yesterday. “Obviously it doesn’t have to be a top tier receiver because Ashley’s not a top tier receiver. Cement hands? No problem. Ashley had cement hands and we really liked him. Luckily nobody else in the league likes him, so he’ll probably be back here for training camp running like a gazelle and being hit in the back of the head with passes. He’ll have a shot at the starting job, though. He just won’t get it."

lovely words from your own coach (or soon to be ex-coach)...

 

[diesel7982]

"We definitely need another warm body in there to take Ashley’s place,” coach Mike Shanahan told a group of reporters yesterday. “Obviously it doesn’t have to be a top tier receiver because Ashley’s not a top tier receiver. Cement hands? No problem. Ashley had cement hands and we really liked him. Luckily nobody else in the league likes him, so he’ll probably be back here for training camp running like a gazelle and being hit in the back of the head with passes. He’ll have a shot at the starting job, though. He just won’t get it."

lovely words from your own coach (or soon to be ex-coach)...

 

[There it is]

Update

Broncos Looking For Fast Guy With Cement Hands To Replace Ashley Lelie

DENVER--With receiver Ashley Lelie holding out of minicamp in an effort to force a trade, the Denver Broncos are looking for a receiver to replace him. They're not looking for an All-Pro or future Hall of Famer, just somebody with blazing speed and cement hands that can run decoy routes for Rod Smith.

“We definitely need another warm body in there to take Ashley’s place,” coach Mike Shanahan told a group of reporters yesterday. “Obviously it doesn’t have to be a top tier receiver because Ashley’s not a top tier receiver. Cement hands? No problem. Ashley had cement hands and we really liked him. Luckily nobody else in the league likes him, so he’ll probably be back here for training camp running like a gazelle and being hit in the back of the head with passes. He’ll have a shot at the starting job, though. He just won’t get it.”

Lelie’s decision to skip minicamp was the result of frustration over his role with the team. He wanted to be the number one receiver, but the team’s offseason courtship of Terrell Owens and subsequent signing of Javon Walker indicated that they had other plans. Now Lelie wants to be traded to a team where he can be at the top of the depth chart.

“I want to be a starting receiver. I want to be the top guy,” Lelie said in an interview with CBS4 Denver. “I have all the tools: I’m quick, I run great routes, and despite what everyone says, I have great hands. I’m one of the best in football and they should send me somewhere I can prove it. And no, I don’t want to compete for the top spot here in Denver. I want it handed to me before I even put on shoulder pads. Is that too much to ask?”

Lelie said he was “shocked and angered” when the Broncos began courting other receivers after last year.

“It was a slap in my face when they went after those other guys,” said Lelie. “Any player in my position would be doing the same thing- except for Rod Smith, of course. He’s such a goody-goody. All he cares about is the team. Well of course that’s all he cares about. He’s the number one receiver. But how can you care as a number two or three? It’s like you’re not even on the team. You might as well be the wide receivers coach. No offense to our wide receivers coach, of course, whoever he is.”

Rod Smith is indeed excited about the Broncos chances this season. However, he would be more excited if his friend, Ashley Lelie, would return to camp and join the team. Smith has been a mentor to Lelie since he came into the league in 2002.

“It’s disappointing to see Ashley holding out like this,” said Smith, entering his 11th year in the NFL. “He’s sabotaging his future with that behavior. Ashley, if you’re listening, please come back to camp. Come here and continue being a dependable backup and continue cashing your checks and be happy. You can even compete for the starting job. Of course, if you get it, I will leave this stinking team in protest and never come back.”

One candidate to take Lelie’s place on the depth chart is receiver Darius Watts, a 2004 draft pick who has impressed coach Shanahan in workouts so far. Watts sees Lelie’s departure as an opportunity to make his own mark on the team.

“If Ashley doesn’t come back, that’s fine,” said Watts, a former second round pick. “I just appreciate the opportunity to show this coaching staff what I can do. All I really want is to help this team attain it’s goal of winning a Super Bowl. I don’t need to be a number one guy. Not this year anyway. See, unlike Ashley, I’m going to use this year to build my case to be a top receiver by having a great year. It’s called ‘leverage.’ Next year I can rake these ####ers over the coals.”

Class guy.

"We definitely need another warm body in there to take Ashley’s place,” coach Mike Shanahan told a group of reporters yesterday. “Obviously it doesn’t have to be a top tier receiver because Ashley’s not a top tier receiver. Cement hands? No problem. Ashley had cement hands and we really liked him. Luckily nobody else in the league likes him, so he’ll probably be back here for training camp running like a gazelle and being hit in the back of the head with passes. He’ll have a shot at the starting job, though. He just won’t get it."

lovely words from your own coach (or soon to be ex-coach)...

83 targets-40 rec-48.2%-751yds-18.8 y/r- 1 TD

 

[Marc Levin]

IMO, A. Lelie will not be playing football in 2006.

 

[Sleeper 43]

I think and hope he goes to the Eagles.

I'd lower Lelie and McNabb on the cheatsheet for sure.

 

[Bushead]

Update

  Broncos Looking For Fast Guy With Cement Hands To Replace Ashley Lelie

DENVER--With receiver Ashley Lelie holding out of minicamp in an effort to force a trade, the Denver Broncos are looking for a receiver to replace him. They're not looking for an All-Pro or future Hall of Famer, just somebody with blazing speed and cement hands that can run decoy routes for Rod Smith.

“We definitely need another warm body in there to take Ashley’s place,” coach Mike Shanahan told a group of reporters yesterday. “Obviously it doesn’t have to be a top tier receiver because Ashley’s not a top tier receiver. Cement hands? No problem. Ashley had cement hands and we really liked him. Luckily nobody else in the league likes him, so he’ll probably be back here for training camp running like a gazelle and being hit in the back of the head with passes. He’ll have a shot at the starting job, though. He just won’t get it.”

Lelie’s decision to skip minicamp was the result of frustration over his role with the team. He wanted to be the number one receiver, but the team’s offseason courtship of Terrell Owens and subsequent signing of Javon Walker indicated that they had other plans. Now Lelie wants to be traded to a team where he can be at the top of the depth chart.

“I want to be a starting receiver. I want to be the top guy,” Lelie said in an interview with CBS4 Denver. “I have all the tools: I’m quick, I run great routes, and despite what everyone says, I have great hands. I’m one of the best in football and they should send me somewhere I can prove it. And no, I don’t want to compete for the top spot here in Denver. I want it handed to me before I even put on shoulder pads. Is that too much to ask?”

Lelie said he was “shocked and angered” when the Broncos began courting other receivers after last year.

“It was a slap in my face when they went after those other guys,” said Lelie. “Any player in my position would be doing the same thing- except for Rod Smith, of course. He’s such a goody-goody. All he cares about is the team. Well of course that’s all he cares about. He’s the number one receiver. But how can you care as a number two or three? It’s like you’re not even on the team. You might as well be the wide receivers coach. No offense to our wide receivers coach, of course, whoever he is.”

Rod Smith is indeed excited about the Broncos chances this season. However, he would be more excited if his friend, Ashley Lelie, would return to camp and join the team. Smith has been a mentor to Lelie since he came into the league in 2002.

“It’s disappointing to see Ashley holding out like this,” said Smith, entering his 11th year in the NFL. “He’s sabotaging his future with that behavior. Ashley, if you’re listening, please come back to camp. Come here and continue being a dependable backup and continue cashing your checks and be happy. You can even compete for the starting job. Of course, if you get it, I will leave this stinking team in protest and never come back.”

One candidate to take Lelie’s place on the depth chart is receiver Darius Watts, a 2004 draft pick who has impressed coach Shanahan in workouts so far. Watts sees Lelie’s departure as an opportunity to make his own mark on the team.

“If Ashley doesn’t come back, that’s fine,” said Watts, a former second round pick. “I just appreciate the opportunity to show this coaching staff what I can do. All I really want is to help this team attain it’s goal of winning a Super Bowl. I don’t need to be a number one guy. Not this year anyway. See, unlike Ashley, I’m going to use this year to build my case to be a top receiver by having a great year. It’s called ‘leverage.’ Next year I can rake these ####ers over the coals.”

Copyright 2006, The Brushback - Do not reprint without permission. This article is satire and is not intended as actual news.

 

[BoltBacker]

IMO, A. Lelie will not be playing football in 2006.

And that's based on....?S.Alexander swearing he'd NEVER play for the Seahawks again until he got a long term deal?

J.Walker swearing he'd NEVER play for GB last season without a new deal?

A.Gates refusing to sign his contract last summer?

H.Ward refusing to play under the contract he had last summer?

Doesn't this happen every single summer? When is the last time a guy held out for the entire season?

 

[Marc Levin]

IMO, A. Lelie will not be playing football in 2006.

And that's based on....?S.Alexander swearing he'd NEVER play for the Seahawks again until he got a long term deal?

J.Walker swearing he'd NEVER play for GB last season without a new deal?

A.Gates refusing to sign his contract last summer?

H.Ward refusing to play under the contract he had last summer?

Doesn't this happen every single summer? When is the last time a guy held out for the entire season?

I didn't say he'd hold out.

 

[BoltBacker]

IMO, A. Lelie will not be playing football in 2006.

And that's based on....?S.Alexander swearing he'd NEVER play for the Seahawks again until he got a long term deal?

J.Walker swearing he'd NEVER play for GB last season without a new deal?

A.Gates refusing to sign his contract last summer?

H.Ward refusing to play under the contract he had last summer?

Doesn't this happen every single summer? When is the last time a guy held out for the entire season?

I didn't say he'd hold out.

Hit by meteor?

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I ####### love the brushback.

 

[Marc Levin]

IMO, A. Lelie will not be playing football in 2006.

And that's based on....?S.Alexander swearing he'd NEVER play for the Seahawks again until he got a long term deal?

J.Walker swearing he'd NEVER play for GB last season without a new deal?

A.Gates refusing to sign his contract last summer?

H.Ward refusing to play under the contract he had last summer?

Doesn't this happen every single summer? When is the last time a guy held out for the entire season?

I didn't say he'd hold out.

Hit by meteor?

nope.held out by Shannie.

if he doesn't report to training camp, he will not be traded, he will not be released, he will also not see more than 20 targets this year. between Walker, Smith, Watts, the TEs, and the RBs, Lelie is purely superfluous to the Denver passing game, and I am willing to bet Shannie will allow himn to languish on the bench all pissed off while he develops the younger receivers into the WR3 role.

Lelie can see how much interest he pulls from other teams after a year of receiving no 2006 catches.

 

[fatness]

I ####### love the brushback.

Some very good humor over there.

 

[SSOG]

nope.

held out by Shannie.

if he doesn't report to training camp, he will not be traded, he will not be released, he will also not see more than 20 targets this year. between Walker, Smith, Watts, the TEs, and the RBs, Lelie is purely superfluous to the Denver passing game, and I am willing to bet Shannie will allow himn to languish on the bench all pissed off while he develops the younger receivers into the WR3 role.

Lelie can see how much interest he pulls from other teams after a year of receiving no 2006 catches.

First off, let me preface by saying that I would *LOVE* to see that happen...but (and you knew there was going to be a but), I don't think it's in the realm of possibility. After the big to-do about Philly sticking it to Owens last year, the Players Association would be up in arms (didn't they actually put a rule in the new CBA that you can't do that anymore?). Also, Shanahan will do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, all ego aside. Ego-wise, I'm sure he'd love to let Lelie ride pine all year, but realistically, Lelie would be such a ridiculous threat from the slot that Shanny would have to give him his playing time. Just my humble opinion.