Lendale White == Curtis Enis (1 Viewer)

[gregjcross]

Based on what coach Fisher says yesterday, (see below) and what transpired after the Rose Bowl for Lendale, I think that the JAX Rookie RB Maurice Drew and ATL's RB Jerrious Norwood (ATL) are worth just as much as Lendale in dynasty league drafts. All of them are talented backups. Coach Fisher, by way of words, already seems to be questioning Lendale White's habits and commitment. Maybe they have another Pac Man jones on their hands, talent sans commitment or brains.

------------------------------------------

(on LenDale White’s progress)

He has come along. ***He is nowhere near training camp shape***

yet just because of the injuries and things, but he has definitely come along and it is good to get him back on the field. He has a good feel for the offense because of his association with Coach Chow. What we have to do is get him prepared physically.

(on if White will be close to 100 percent by the start of training camp)

He has a chance to be close. It ****really depends on the commitment he makes between now and then**** I would expect he would be 100 percent, so we will see when he comes back.

 

[David Yudkin]

I believe you are reading a lot between the lines. White hasn't been practicing, so he should not be expected to be in game shape.

I read this the complete opposite as you did, meaning that if he gets his act together and gets in shape by implication he could compete for the starting job.

 

[Baracuda]

Didn't Curtis Enis blow out his ACL early in his NFL career? I'm not sure how applicable that is to LenDale White.

 

[jafo]

Based on what coach Fisher says yesterday, (see below) and what transpired after the Rose Bowl for Lendale, I think that the JAX Rookie RB Maurice Drew and ATL's RB Jerrious Norwood (ATL) are worth just as much as Lendale in dynasty league drafts. All of them are talented backups. Coach Fisher, by way of words, already seems to be questioning Lendale White's habits and commitment. Maybe they have another Pac Man jones on their hands, talent sans commitment or brains.

------------------------------------------

(on LenDale White’s progress)

He has come along. ***He is nowhere near training camp shape***

yet just because of the injuries and things, but he has definitely come along and it is good to get him back on the field. He has a good feel for the offense because of his association with Coach Chow. What we have to do is get him prepared physically.

(on if White will be close to 100 percent by the start of training camp)

He has a chance to be close. It ****really depends on the commitment he makes between now and then**** I would expect he would be 100 percent, so we will see when he comes back.

 

[gregjcross]

Why isn't it Fisher saying, "He is doing great, its ten weeks after his injury and he is rip roaring and ready for camp. And not, "well, if he's commited??" It can be interpreted in a couple of ways, and its just mini camp, but the Red Flags are still popping. I have no stake in this, i dont own any Titans and i didnt draft Lendale or any other rookie RB. Im just reading this for what it is.

I believe you are reading a lot between the lines. White hasn't been practicing, so he should not be expected to be in game shape.

I read this the complete opposite as you did, meaning that if he gets his act together and gets in shape by implication he could compete for the starting job.

 

[gump]

I read this the complete opposite as you did, meaning that if he gets his act together and gets in shape by implication he could compete for the starting job.

I agree with GregJCross...just the fact that we have to state "If he gets his act together" when discussing him is enough to push him way down my list due to character question marks.

 

[diesel7982]

Didn't Curtis Enis blow out his ACL early in his NFL career? I'm not sure how applicable that is to LenDale White.

Your avatar confused me, thought I had gotten drunk and posted in a Lendale White thread.

 

[Baracuda]

Didn't Curtis Enis blow out his ACL early in his NFL career?  I'm not sure how applicable that is to LenDale White.

Your avatar confused me, thought I had gotten drunk and posted in a Lendale White thread.

No. I think I'm confused by the title. It says "REPLYING to the Lendale White == Curtis Enis" which I guess means he's disagreeing with that view. Nice avatar. But I have the name that fits it! Okay let's box for it.

 

[David Yudkin]

I read this the complete opposite as you did, meaning that if he gets his act together and gets in shape by implication he could compete for the starting job.

I agree with GregJCross...just the fact that we have to state "If he gets his act together" when discussing him is enough to push him way down my list due to character question marks.

This is not news. He's been cited for being lackadaisacal, overweight, and injured since the Rose Bowl. Thus why he went from a potential early to mid first round pick to a second rounder on NFL Draft Day. Nothing has changed as he has yet to show what he can do in practice or on the field.The fact of the matter still remains that the Titans do not appear enamoured with Chris Brown, Travis Henry has been in the doghouse with the team and the league (and probably is not going to win the starting job). IMO, White has a legit chance to start this season at some point--with the caveat that he has to get in stay in shape and make a commitment and want the job.

For redarft leagues, White's investment cost is pretty reasonable. As for dynasty leagues, all rookies are a bit mercurial and some make it and some don't. IMO, White has a better chance to get more looks than Drew or Norwood do (at least for this year). If you don't like White, don't take him.

 

[gump]

For redarft leagues, White's investment cost is pretty reasonable. As for dynasty leagues, all rookies are a bit mercurial and some make it and some don't. IMO, White has a better chance to get more looks than Drew or Norwood do (at least for this year). If you don't like White, don't take him.

I agree...but as always, it's about value. I'm not going to eliminate anyone from the mix.There are enough question marks with rookies anyway...more so with some who have a trait (lack of drive) that is a gigantic red flag for a professional athlete competing for one of the most difficult positions in the world.

 

[Sinrman]

His injury has kept him from practicing and such a good bit, so it's no wonder he might not be where they would like him. There's still plenty of time between now and Week 1....

 

[diesel7982]

Didn't Curtis Enis blow out his ACL early in his NFL career?  I'm not sure how applicable that is to LenDale White.

Your avatar confused me, thought I had gotten drunk and posted in a Lendale White thread.

No. I think I'm confused by the title. It says "REPLYING to the Lendale White == Curtis Enis" which I guess means he's disagreeing with that view. Nice avatar. But I have the name that fits it! Okay let's box for it.

How bout we go by who was here with it for 2.5 years before the other?

 

[gregjcross]

I read this the complete opposite as you did, meaning that if he gets his act together and gets in shape by implication he could compete for the starting job.

I agree with GregJCross...just the fact that we have to state "If he gets his act together" when discussing him is enough to push him way down my list due to character question marks.

This is not news. He's been cited for being lackadaisacal, overweight, and injured since the Rose Bowl. Thus why he went from a potential early to mid first round pick to a second rounder on NFL Draft Day. Nothing has changed as he has yet to show what he can do in practice or on the field.The fact of the matter still remains that the Titans do not appear enamoured with Chris Brown, Travis Henry has been in the doghouse with the team and the league (and probably is not going to win the starting job). IMO, White has a legit chance to start this season at some point--with the caveat that he has to get in stay in shape and make a commitment and want the job.

For redarft leagues, White's investment cost is pretty reasonable. As for dynasty leagues, all rookies are a bit mercurial and some make it and some don't. IMO, White has a better chance to get more looks than Drew or Norwood do (at least for this year). If you don't like White, don't take him.

Saying "If you dont like Lendale dont draft him" is not the point of thread. Either tell me he is worthwhile pick or he isn't. I'm clearly saying this: I predict Lendale will be a wasted pick in Fantasy Leagues if an owner drafts him high enough with an expectation that will be a regular starter for the TItans this season with a level of consistency that is better than the other promising rookie backs in his class. He is a dark horse and frankly the clouds are still gathering because he couldnt shake this injury quickly (in lesss than 2.5months).

 

[John Mamula]

this thread is lowering the collective iq of the shark pool.

 

[CommuterMan]

How can you say you are just reading Fisher's comments for what they are... the fact that you are inserting "***" at certain points makes it clear that you want to take these comments and bend them to suite your evaluation of White. That's fine if you don't feel that White will be successful this year or ever in the NFL - but don't go interpreting a coaches comments and then say you are just clearing up what he meant to say by highlighting parts of the comments....

The quote from Fisher says that White is YET to be in training camp shape due to injuries and things. Fisher said nothing about White lacking motivation or being lazy as a reason for not being in shape - although I doubt that he would come out and directly say those things... Fisher's direction is to motivate White to get into training camp shape by the end of July when camps open. I see nothing in Fisher's comments that cause serious concern - but neither am I Oliver Stone, ready to build conspiracy theories based on phrases taken from an interview....

Why isn't it Fisher saying, "He is doing great, its ten weeks after his injury and he is rip roaring and ready for camp. And not, "well, if he's commited??" It can be interpreted in a couple of ways, and its just mini camp, but the Red Flags are still popping. I have no stake in this, i dont own any Titans and i didnt draft Lendale or any other rookie RB. Im just reading this for what it is.

He has come along. ***He is nowhere near training camp shape***

yet just because of the injuries and things, but he has definitely come along and it is good to get him back on the field. He has a good feel for the offense because of his association with Coach Chow. What we have to do is get him prepared physically.

I believe you are reading a lot between the lines.  White hasn't been practicing, so he should not be expected to be in game shape.

I read this the complete opposite as you did, meaning that if he gets his act together and gets in shape by implication he could compete for the starting job.

 

[David Yudkin]

I read this the complete opposite as you did, meaning that if he gets his act together and gets in shape by implication he could compete for the starting job.

I agree with GregJCross...just the fact that we have to state "If he gets his act together" when discussing him is enough to push him way down my list due to character question marks.

This is not news. He's been cited for being lackadaisacal, overweight, and injured since the Rose Bowl. Thus why he went from a potential early to mid first round pick to a second rounder on NFL Draft Day. Nothing has changed as he has yet to show what he can do in practice or on the field.The fact of the matter still remains that the Titans do not appear enamoured with Chris Brown, Travis Henry has been in the doghouse with the team and the league (and probably is not going to win the starting job). IMO, White has a legit chance to start this season at some point--with the caveat that he has to get in stay in shape and make a commitment and want the job.

For redarft leagues, White's investment cost is pretty reasonable. As for dynasty leagues, all rookies are a bit mercurial and some make it and some don't. IMO, White has a better chance to get more looks than Drew or Norwood do (at least for this year). If you don't like White, don't take him.

Saying "If you dont like Lendale dont draft him" is not the point of thread. Either tell me he is worthwhile pick or he isn't. I'm clearly saying this: I predict Lendale will be a wasted pick in Fantasy Leagues if an owner drafts him high enough with an expectation that will be a regular starter for the TItans this season with a level of consistency that is better than the other promising rookie backs in his class. He is a dark horse and frankly the clouds are still gathering because he couldnt shake this injury quickly (in lesss than 2.5months).

In redraft leagues, White is going as the #39 RB and the #85 pick overall. I would say that that is a reasonable spot for a potential starting RB to go. Is he a clear starter? No. Is he a risk? Yes. Would I take him there? Maybe, maybe not.I say maybe because there are 3 other guys going right next to him that I would probably take AT THIS POINT over White: Dayne (36), Gore (38), and Rhodes (36). Things can change in the coming weeks/months, so I reserve the right to change the order and interest in an of these guys.

For owners that don't like fishing for starters, then White is not your man. He has issues, he has to compete for carries, he has to leap over 2 other backs to get a big workload, and he is completely unproven. Again, if you are risk adverse and don't want to invest a 7th or 8th round pick in someone that could play sparingly, I certainly will not ignore that argument as it is a very valid point. (But remember, I advocated taking Larry Johnson in the 4th round last year and people thought I was high on crack.)

For dynasty leagues, as I already mentioned, I like his situation better than the other guys being mentioned but very few rookie RB start their careers in great situations. Thus my point if you don't like him don't draft him. There is much more "defined" in a redraft than a dynasty draft, so those that see him as a long term PITA before he's even played a game should clearly not take him.

 

[Iron_Far]

Didn't Curtis Enis blow out his ACL early in his NFL career? I'm not sure how applicable that is to LenDale White.

Your avatar confused me, thought I had gotten drunk and posted in a Lendale White thread.

No. I think I'm confused by the title. It says "REPLYING to the Lendale White == Curtis Enis" which I guess means he's disagreeing with that view. Nice avatar. But I have the name that fits it! Okay let's box for it.

No offense to diesel - but why would ANYONE copy such a stupid looking avatar?

 

[Bob_Magaw]

does this really change anything...

if fisher was really worried about white, he probably wouldn't have drafted him...

i'm not sure if the length of time it took him to recover conflicts with the time frame that was announced shortly after the draft (if anything, he might be slightly ahead of schedule)... i don't recall their being any guarantees before that he would be healthy enough early enough that he could work out to the level that he would be 100% & in shape by camp... this appears to be a non-story...

whatever we try & interpret in fisher's words, whether it was motivation, etc, the bottom line is that if he gets in shape & looks good in camp, he will see action... once he sees action, we will get to find out how his physical ability, natural talent & running skills that made him look like one of the best RBs in USC history & one of the best RBs in the nation will translate to the NFL...

its not like fisher sounding down on him to you will matter much if white looks good in camp & starts tearing it up from game one, so that is the bottom line...

i just don't see a profound connection between fisher's words here & probablity that white is able to get in shape before & during camp...

 

[diesel7982]

does this really change anything...

if fisher was really worried about white, he probably wouldn't have drafted him...

i'm not sure if the length of time it took him to recover conflicts with the time frame that was announced shortly after the draft (if anything, he might be slightly ahead of schedule)... i don't recall their being any guarantees before that he would be healthy enough early enough that he could work out to the level that he would be 100% & in shape by camp... this appears to be a non-story...

whatever we try & interpret in fisher's words, whether it was motivation, etc, the bottom line is that if he gets in shape & looks good in camp, he will see action... once he sees action, we will get to find out how his physical ability, natural talent & running skills that made him look like one of the best RBs in USC history & one of the best RBs in the nation will translate to the NFL...

its not like fisher sounding down on him to you will matter much if white looks good in camp & starts tearing it up from game one, so that is the bottom line...

i just don't see a profound connection between fisher's words here & probablity that white is able to get in shape before & during camp...

The bolded part above negates the argument. Fisher doesn't have final say. We don't know if Fisher wanted him, but we do know Floyd Reese did.Same thing with Vince Young. Fisher publicly seemed to want Leinart, while Reese and Adams wanted Young. And we saw what the choice was there.

 

[Weiner Dog]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored. As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons). If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned. However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played. Not good.

Maybe even more applicable to Lendale White is the increased emphasis of speed in today's NFL. Teams are flocking to the 3-4 in an effort to get another speedy LB on the field (and, conversely, remove a slow DL). Heck, you also have 4.34/40 guys like Michael Huff playing safety...not cornerback. In plain English, big backs simply cannot turn the corner in today's NFL. Let's go back to Jerome Bettis...

Shockingly, Bettis averaged 4.0+ yards/carry in a season only once in the past eight seasons. Guys...only one time! If you don't like my sample, I'll throw the cards on the table and disclose that Bettis only eclipsed 4.0+ yards/carry in a season 4 out of 13 total seasons. I know "yards/carry" is not the end of all end, but it needs to be noted that only two (McGahee & Jordan) of the 16 RB's who topped 1000 yards last season averaged less than 4.0 yards/carry.

If Bettis is truly the Jerry Rice of the big backs, Lendale White can hope his career awards him four seasons with 4.0+ yards/carry.

Not good...again.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career

Earl Campbell, Jim Brown, John Riggins, Franco Harris, and Eddie George were all decent...

 

[mbuehner]

As it is I think he's still going to high for my taste. The next 5 players drafted based on ADP are:

86 WR28 Nate Burleson Sea/5

87 QB12 Jake Plummer Den/4

88 QB13 Drew Bledsoe Dal/3

89 QB14 Brett Favre GB/6

90 WR29 Jerry Porter Oak/3

Those are guys that _will_ help your team. If im taking a project like White it wont be at the expense of a guarunteed starter.

 

[diesel7982]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored. As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons). If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned. However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played. Not good.



Maybe even more applicable to Lendale White is the increased emphasis of speed in today's NFL. Teams are flocking to the 3-4 in an effort to get another speedy LB on the field (and, conversely, remove a slow DL). Heck, you also have 4.34/40 guys like Michael Huff playing safety...not cornerback. In plain English, big backs simply cannot turn the corner in today's NFL. Let's go back to Jerome Bettis...

Shockingly, Bettis averaged 4.0+ yards/carry in a season only once in the past eight seasons. Guys...only one time! If you don't like my sample, I'll throw the cards on the table and disclose that Bettis only eclipsed 4.0+ yards/carry in a season 4 out of 13 total seasons. I know "yards/carry" is not the end of all end, but it needs to be noted that only two (McGahee & Jordan) of the 16 RB's who topped 1000 yards last season averaged less than 4.0 yards/carry.

If Bettis is truly the Jerry Rice of the big backs, Lendale White can hope his career awards him four seasons with 4.0+ yards/carry.

Not good...again.

And 25 years ago, the 3-4 was the norm, and defenses starting moving to the 4-3 to get bigger players onto the field to stop the run and battle increasingly big offensive lineman and RBs.Its all cyclical. By the time Lendale White hits his prime, teams could be switching back to the 4-3 and abandoning the 3-4.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored.  As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons).  If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned.  However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played.  Not good.

Maybe even more applicable to Lendale White is the increased emphasis of speed in today's NFL.  Teams are flocking to the 3-4 in an effort to get another speedy LB on the field (and, conversely, remove a slow DL).  Heck, you also have 4.34/40 guys like Michael Huff playing safety...not cornerback.  In plain English, big backs simply cannot turn the corner in today's NFL.  Let's go back to Jerome Bettis...

Shockingly, Bettis averaged 4.0+ yards/carry in a season only once in the past eight seasons.  Guys...only one time!  If you don't like my sample, I'll throw the cards on the table and disclose that Bettis only eclipsed 4.0+ yards/carry in a season 4 out of 13 total seasons.  I know "yards/carry" is not the end of all end, but it needs to be noted that only two (McGahee & Jordan) of the 16 RB's who topped 1000 yards last season averaged less than 4.0 yards/carry.

If Bettis is truly the Jerry Rice of the big backs, Lendale White can hope his career awards him four seasons with 4.0+ yards/carry.  

Not good...again.

This is an excellent post, WD, and I'm the first to admit that I'm not the best qualified to respond being more of a defensive guy. But I'm wondering...Is LenDale White a "Bettis" big back or a Ricky Williams or Earl Campbell or Eric Dickerson type. I certainly don't think he's Dickerson-esque, but I've read scouting reports that say he may be a Ricky-like one cut runner. That's kind of how he looked to me in the Rose Bowl and a couple of other games.

I may be looking at a decision on LenDale this weekend if he falls a couple of spots, so I'm really interested in this discussion.

Is his playing weight likely to be upwards of the 235 pounds I've seen listed and closer to the guys above? Or will he his playing weight and style be closer to the 255++ Bettis played around?

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored. As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons). If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned. However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played. Not good.

Lendale White = 235Lamont Jordan = 235

Steven Jackson = 233

Willis McGahee = 228



White will be fine! Thanks for passing on him!!

 

[EBF]

Jamal Lewis and Stephen Davis are also good comparisons.

 

[Weiner Dog]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored.  As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons).  If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned.  However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played.  Not good.

Maybe even more applicable to Lendale White is the increased emphasis of speed in today's NFL.  Teams are flocking to the 3-4 in an effort to get another speedy LB on the field (and, conversely, remove a slow DL).  Heck, you also have 4.34/40 guys like Michael Huff playing safety...not cornerback.  In plain English, big backs simply cannot turn the corner in today's NFL.  Let's go back to Jerome Bettis...

Shockingly, Bettis averaged 4.0+ yards/carry in a season only once in the past eight seasons.  Guys...only one time!  If you don't like my sample, I'll throw the cards on the table and disclose that Bettis only eclipsed 4.0+ yards/carry in a season 4 out of 13 total seasons.  I know "yards/carry" is not the end of all end, but it needs to be noted that only two (McGahee & Jordan) of the 16 RB's who topped 1000 yards last season averaged less than 4.0 yards/carry.

If Bettis is truly the Jerry Rice of the big backs, Lendale White can hope his career awards him four seasons with 4.0+ yards/carry.  

Not good...again.

This is an excellent post, WD, and I'm the first to admit that I'm not the best qualified to respond being more of a defensive guy. But I'm wondering...Is LenDale White a "Bettis" big back or a Ricky Williams or Earl Campbell or Eric Dickerson type. I certainly don't think he's Dickerson-esque, but I've read scouting reports that say he may be a Ricky-like one cut runner. That's kind of how he looked to me in the Rose Bowl and a couple of other games.

I may be looking at a decision on LenDale this weekend if he falls a couple of spots, so I'm really interested in this discussion.

Is his playing weight likely to be upwards of the 235 pounds I've seen listed and closer to the guys above? Or will he his playing weight and style be closer to the 255++ Bettis played around?

The term "big back" can obviously have different images to different people. IMO, Campbell was really no different than today's Ronnie Brown from a size perspective. Same with Ricky. Good sized but not considered big.

Eddie was a big back from a weight perspective (240lbs) but his mass was also spread out over 75" of man.

Dickerson?? Wasn't he in the neighborhood of 6'3" 220lbs?? If so, he's no where near a big back.

 

[TME]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored. As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons). If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned. However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played. Not good.

Maybe even more applicable to Lendale White is the increased emphasis of speed in today's NFL. Teams are flocking to the 3-4 in an effort to get another speedy LB on the field (and, conversely, remove a slow DL). Heck, you also have 4.34/40 guys like Michael Huff playing safety...not cornerback. In plain English, big backs simply cannot turn the corner in today's NFL. Let's go back to Jerome Bettis...

Shockingly, Bettis averaged 4.0+ yards/carry in a season only once in the past eight seasons. Guys...only one time! If you don't like my sample, I'll throw the cards on the table and disclose that Bettis only eclipsed 4.0+ yards/carry in a season 4 out of 13 total seasons. I know "yards/carry" is not the end of all end, but it needs to be noted that only two (McGahee & Jordan) of the 16 RB's who topped 1000 yards last season averaged less than 4.0 yards/carry.

If Bettis is truly the Jerry Rice of the big backs, Lendale White can hope his career awards him four seasons with 4.0+ yards/carry.

Not good...again.

I hear a lot of what you are saying, but you may be taking too much of a longer term career perspective. A lot of guys cannot do it for an extended period. Ask guys like Priest Holmes or Terrell Davis. But, of the guys you mention, several were THE back in their day for a period (but not their career). (Also, I would add Jamal Lewis to the "big back" mix. Yes, a different kind of big back but a guy that plays at 245 none the less).As for speed, yes speed is big, but you do not ask White to turn the corner. You ask him to run between the tackles. Speed did not hurt White in the bowl game when he came up against Huff. He just flattened the guy.

As for yards and YPC, I think the upside with White is TD production. I do not know that anyone is thinking 1,500 yards. I think people are thinking 1,100 yards and 15 TD or something of that mix (assuming the TN offense can pick it up a bit). Big TD upside.

White is really boom or bust. You have to like where he landed with injury prone RBs in front of him.

 

[Weiner Dog]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored.  As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons).  If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned.  However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played.  Not good.

Lendale White = 235Lamont Jordan = 235

Steven Jackson = 233

Willis McGahee = 228



White will be fine! Thanks for passing on him!!

To further explain my stance, I believe White will play closer to 250 (his playing weight last season) and further from 235 (his draft weight) in his career. He's very young and is expected to "fill out". I also think his work ethic (or lack thereof) will also push his weight higher, as opposed to lower.Time will tell.

 

[diesel7982]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored.  As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons).  If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned.  However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played.  Not good.

Maybe even more applicable to Lendale White is the increased emphasis of speed in today's NFL.  Teams are flocking to the 3-4 in an effort to get another speedy LB on the field (and, conversely, remove a slow DL).  Heck, you also have 4.34/40 guys like Michael Huff playing safety...not cornerback.  In plain English, big backs simply cannot turn the corner in today's NFL.  Let's go back to Jerome Bettis...

Shockingly, Bettis averaged 4.0+ yards/carry in a season only once in the past eight seasons.  Guys...only one time!  If you don't like my sample, I'll throw the cards on the table and disclose that Bettis only eclipsed 4.0+ yards/carry in a season 4 out of 13 total seasons.  I know "yards/carry" is not the end of all end, but it needs to be noted that only two (McGahee & Jordan) of the 16 RB's who topped 1000 yards last season averaged less than 4.0 yards/carry.

If Bettis is truly the Jerry Rice of the big backs, Lendale White can hope his career awards him four seasons with 4.0+ yards/carry.  

Not good...again.

This is an excellent post, WD, and I'm the first to admit that I'm not the best qualified to respond being more of a defensive guy. But I'm wondering...Is LenDale White a "Bettis" big back or a Ricky Williams or Earl Campbell or Eric Dickerson type. I certainly don't think he's Dickerson-esque, but I've read scouting reports that say he may be a Ricky-like one cut runner. That's kind of how he looked to me in the Rose Bowl and a couple of other games.

I may be looking at a decision on LenDale this weekend if he falls a couple of spots, so I'm really interested in this discussion.

Is his playing weight likely to be upwards of the 235 pounds I've seen listed and closer to the guys above? Or will he his playing weight and style be closer to the 255++ Bettis played around?

The term "big back" can obviously have different images to different people. IMO, Campbell was really no different than today's Ronnie Brown from a size perspective. Same with Ricky. Good sized but not considered big.

Eddie was a big back from a weight perspective (240lbs) but his mass was also spread out over 75" of man.

Dickerson?? Wasn't he in the neighborhood of 6'3" 220lbs?? If so, he's no where near a big back.

Are you kidding?220 lbs in the early-mid 80s was a pretty darn big back.

 

[TME]

Icky Woods. I think White can be an Icky Woods back but with more upside (in yards and duration of career). He will own the redzone carries. All White inside the 20.

Again, for a time, Woods was THE man. Didn't he have like a 20 TD season wtih about 1,000 yards while Brooks had all the rushing and receiving yards.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

Jamal Lewis and Stephen Davis are also good comparisons.

Jamal Lewis is blazing fast.

 

[diesel7982]

Icky Woods. I think White can be an Icky Woods back but with more upside (in yards and duration of career). He will own the redzone carries. All White inside the 20.

Again, for a time, Woods was THE man. Didn't he have like a 20 TD season wtih about 1,000 yards while Brooks had all the rushing and receiving yards.

Yep, his rookie year.And then he disappeared.

Link

 

[Godsbrother]

I am waiting until the first preseason game before I call him a bust. Why rush judgement?

 

[Weiner Dog]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored. As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons). If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned. However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played. Not good.

Maybe even more applicable to Lendale White is the increased emphasis of speed in today's NFL. Teams are flocking to the 3-4 in an effort to get another speedy LB on the field (and, conversely, remove a slow DL). Heck, you also have 4.34/40 guys like Michael Huff playing safety...not cornerback. In plain English, big backs simply cannot turn the corner in today's NFL. Let's go back to Jerome Bettis...

Shockingly, Bettis averaged 4.0+ yards/carry in a season only once in the past eight seasons. Guys...only one time! If you don't like my sample, I'll throw the cards on the table and disclose that Bettis only eclipsed 4.0+ yards/carry in a season 4 out of 13 total seasons. I know "yards/carry" is not the end of all end, but it needs to be noted that only two (McGahee & Jordan) of the 16 RB's who topped 1000 yards last season averaged less than 4.0 yards/carry.

If Bettis is truly the Jerry Rice of the big backs, Lendale White can hope his career awards him four seasons with 4.0+ yards/carry.

Not good...again.

This is an excellent post, WD, and I'm the first to admit that I'm not the best qualified to respond being more of a defensive guy. But I'm wondering...Is LenDale White a "Bettis" big back or a Ricky Williams or Earl Campbell or Eric Dickerson type. I certainly don't think he's Dickerson-esque, but I've read scouting reports that say he may be a Ricky-like one cut runner. That's kind of how he looked to me in the Rose Bowl and a couple of other games.

I may be looking at a decision on LenDale this weekend if he falls a couple of spots, so I'm really interested in this discussion.

Is his playing weight likely to be upwards of the 235 pounds I've seen listed and closer to the guys above? Or will he his playing weight and style be closer to the 255++ Bettis played around?

The term "big back" can obviously have different images to different people. IMO, Campbell was really no different than today's Ronnie Brown from a size perspective. Same with Ricky. Good sized but not considered big.

Eddie was a big back from a weight perspective (240lbs) but his mass was also spread out over 75" of man.

Dickerson?? Wasn't he in the neighborhood of 6'3" 220lbs?? If so, he's no where near a big back.

Are you kidding?220 lbs in the early-mid 80s was a pretty darn big back.

What NFL have you been watching the last 25 years?? RB's have not gotten bigger since Dickerson played. In fact, every leading rusher from 1990 until now has been smaller than Dickerson with the exception of Ricky ('02), Jamal ('03) and Alexander ('05).Either way, Dickerson at 6'3" 220lbs is no comparison to Lendale White at 6'0 235-250lbs.

 

[Weiner Dog]

I'm a true believer history cannot be ignored. As a result, the extreme lack of production from "big backs" the past 40 years (or so) is a huge red-flag for me when evaluating Lendale White.

Jerome Bettis is the only...and I mean only...big back who had a very very good career (8-1000 yard seasons). If you look at the next tier of big backs, names like Christian Okoye, Barry Word, Natrone Means, Marion Butts, Ironhead Hayward, Pete Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist would be mentioned. However, these seven big backs only totalled 8-1000 yard seasons over a total of 50 seasons played. Not good.

Maybe even more applicable to Lendale White is the increased emphasis of speed in today's NFL. Teams are flocking to the 3-4 in an effort to get another speedy LB on the field (and, conversely, remove a slow DL). Heck, you also have 4.34/40 guys like Michael Huff playing safety...not cornerback. In plain English, big backs simply cannot turn the corner in today's NFL. Let's go back to Jerome Bettis...

Shockingly, Bettis averaged 4.0+ yards/carry in a season only once in the past eight seasons. Guys...only one time! If you don't like my sample, I'll throw the cards on the table and disclose that Bettis only eclipsed 4.0+ yards/carry in a season 4 out of 13 total seasons. I know "yards/carry" is not the end of all end, but it needs to be noted that only two (McGahee & Jordan) of the 16 RB's who topped 1000 yards last season averaged less than 4.0 yards/carry.

If Bettis is truly the Jerry Rice of the big backs, Lendale White can hope his career awards him four seasons with 4.0+ yards/carry.

Not good...again.

As for yards and YPC, I think the upside with White is TD production. I do not know that anyone is thinking 1,500 yards. I think people are thinking 1,100 yards and 15 TD or something of that mix (assuming the TN offense can pick it up a bit). Big TD upside.White is really boom or bust. You have to like where he landed with injury prone RBs in front of him.

TME makes a good point. White could become a very solid player in standard-scoring or TD-friendly leagues. However, I think his upside is greatly hindered in the perfomance-based leagues.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

does this really change anything...

if fisher was really worried about white, he probably wouldn't have drafted him...

i'm not sure if the length of time it took him to recover conflicts with the time frame that was announced shortly after the draft (if anything, he might be slightly ahead of schedule)... i don't recall their being any guarantees before that he would be healthy enough early enough that he could work out to the level that he would be 100% & in shape by camp... this appears to be a non-story...

whatever we try & interpret in fisher's words, whether it was motivation, etc, the bottom line is that if he gets in shape & looks good in camp, he will see action... once he sees action, we will get to find out how his physical ability, natural talent & running skills that made him look like one of the best RBs in USC history & one of the best RBs in the nation will translate to the NFL...

its not like fisher sounding down on him to you will matter much if white looks good in camp & starts tearing it up from game one, so that is the bottom line...

i just don't see a profound connection between fisher's words here & probablity that white is able to get in shape before & during camp...

The bolded part above negates the argument. Fisher doesn't have final say. We don't know if Fisher wanted him, but we do know Floyd Reese did.Same thing with Vince Young. Fisher publicly seemed to want Leinart, while Reese and Adams wanted Young. And we saw what the choice was there.

i don't recall fisher ever saying he wanted leinart & didn't want VY... it was reported, but i don't think fisher said that in an interview (wouldn't expect him to contradict GM reese)...i did hear last year that fisher preferred rolle & reese liked pacman, but again, that came out via back channels...

i'm not sure that fisher & chow have zero input... that isn't the same thing as saying they always get what they want... but if fisher didn't get his first round choice past two years doesn't necessarily mean he never has any input... it was reported that chow urged organization to get white... fisher did say that white was around #15 on their overall board... maybe he meant reese's board...

anyway, this could be a moot point... rest of argument wasn't contingent on this to follow... if he gets in shape & plays well, what the poster thinks fisher meant isn't going to matter much, whether right or not... he will get the ball...

conversely, even if fisher was saying great things about him, if he is out of shape & looks bad it won't matter...

sure it is great to having a HC extolling your virtues... but how much could he really say after white was out injured & has been back for only a few days...

this was sense i meant this seems a non-story... who pulled the trigger on draft choice is incidental & not integral to this point...

have we heard anything before to suggest that fisher wasn't excited about pick of white & reese forced it on him... like you thought was case with leinart?

 

[Bob_Magaw]

i haven't heard that white intends on playing bigger than 235...

that is a big difference between that weight & bettis at 250+... i agree bettis is rare big RB to succeed, but i'm not sure that is best comp for white...

white doesn't have to be #1 RB in NFL to be highly successful...

lots of RBs around 230-235 have succeeded in recent seasons... corey dillon, fred taylor, deuce mccallister, steven jackson, LJ, etc... these backs are also faster, but i think the point was that it is rare for RB his size to succeed, & i would have to say it is not that uncommon at all... eddie george was mentioned (not that fast), stephen davis (pretty fast in his prime)...

EBF brought up this point in reference to shelton last year, who is huge (or possibly it was brandon jacobs or both)... i would agree the success rate for guys THAT big is not good (not sure if fellow louisville RB bush is as big), & WDs point would be more relevant there... but white is much different RB than shelton & jacobs... even if he plays at 240 instead of 235... much more agile, explosive & quick footed...

 

[Noahs Troopers]

LenDale White and his new look

 

[Riffraff]

Fantasy owners just need someone to rag on. Always have always will.

Must be a slow week on illegal acts, drunken behavior, or Darwin award winners.

 

[Traders2001]

No .

No White is nt but Cedric benson = Curtis Enis is right .

 

[gregjcross]

PFT just posted this on its site.....

WHERE'S LENDALE?

As the coaching staff is projecting a "no big deal" demeanor regarding the failure of running back LenDale White to report to training camp despite coming to terms more than two days ago, there is plenty of speculation among his teammates as to White's whereabouts.

The prevailing theory is that he's fat and out of shape. There's also speculation (we repeat, speculation) that White has been hanging with Snoop Dogg, and that LenDale consequently needs to let some things work out of his system before being subjected to a visit from the piss man. (Again, that's speculation only.)

Regardless, it's a bizarre situation. And the Titans REALLY aren't in a position to complain about White's absence, since doing so could be viewed as an implicit admission that they were stoopid for interrupting his draft-day free fall.

White was at one time considered to be a first-round prospect, but his inability to run the 40-yard dash prior to the draft and the arguably poor manner in which he handled the situation caused him to fall to the Titans in round two.

Stay tuned.

No .

No White is nt but Cedric benson = Curtis Enis is right .

 

[Donnybrook]

 

[gocats]

 

[Blackjacks]

I agree, he's soft

 

[Donnybrook]

Titans | White expected to practice SundaySat, 29 Jul 2006 19:28:51 -0700The Tennessean reports Tennessee Titans head coach Jeff Fisher said rookie RB LenDale White should arrive in Clarksville Saturday evening, July 29, and be on the practice field for the first time on Sunday, July 30. White had agreed to terms, but not signed his contract with the team.

If doesn't show up tomorrow, then there might be something to this story.

 

[JohnnyU]

LenDale White and his new look

I'll need therapy after seeing that. :X

 

[Biabreakable]

this thread is lowering the collective iq of the shark pool.

I was going to reply to this but my 1 IQ is a fraction now so I cannot remember what I was going to say.

 

[Donnybrook]

The Tennessean reports that Rookie RB LenDale White practiced for the first time Sunday morning.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

nice

LenDale White, barring injury, will be the leading rusher for the Titans at the end of the year. And with his nose for the endzone he could be the leader in scoring for the Titans as well. Saying he = Curtis Enis is a bit much.