Lendale White (1 Viewer)

[Soaring Eagle]

Can this guy take off this year and be a top 20 back?

I have seen a lot of discussion on Chris Henry but not that much discussion on Lendale White...

Thoughts?

 

[Dirty Weasel]

Yes, he can. Will he? If VY doesn't steal all the carries, I think he has a shot.

 

[Raiders Fan]

I was scared to have him as my 2nd RB in 1 of my leagues so I am a bit skeptical. His weight is down but I think its a RBBC for him.

 

[mlball77]

Yeah, it does seem likely to be a RBBC; only time will tell. In non-PPR leagues, if it is a RBBC and White gets the goal line duties, he could have some solid value, imo.

 

[Birdie048]

I'll go out on a limb here....

Yes, he has seen the writing on the wall with the lack of confidence in him with the re-signing of Chris Brown and drafting of Chris Henry. Some reports have indicated he is doing all that is asked of him and he is looking good. I expect C Brown to start the season with 50% of the touches, but after week 4, LenDale White to get 80% of the touches.

V Young will keep the box crowded and unless Tenn WR (Moulds, Brandon Jones & Courtney Roby and Roydell Williams) can keep the Def honest, it will be a long season for Tenn. Moulds might have lost a step, but he still has the hands and cuts to make the rec's.

What #'s do I see for L White?

225 carries

960 yards

7 TD's

Add about 24 rec and 200 yards for 2 TD and he would make a good RB#2 at RB#3 value.

So, yeah I'll join the bandwagon!!!

 

[BeTheMatch]

Jeff Fisher hasn't been a RBBC coach, so I think White will either be the featured back getting the bulk of carries, or he just won't cut it and that role will fall to Chris Brown. If whoever claims the starting position can stay healthy all year, there's no reason not to expect 1,200 yards and around 10 TDs.

 

[Raiders Fan]

Jeff Fisher hasn't been a RBBC coach, so I think White will either be the featured back getting the bulk of carries, or he just won't cut it and that role will fall to Chris Brown. If whoever claims the starting position can stay healthy all year, there's no reason not to expect 1,200 yards and around 10 TDs.

When your backfield is an unknown, a guy who hasn't lived up to expectations and an injury prone back what would you call it?? Either way the chances of 1 guy having the job all year is slim to none.. His positive is he is down to his playing weight but his lazy attitude is hurting him..

 

[BeTheMatch]

Jeff Fisher hasn't been a RBBC coach, so I think White will either be the featured back getting the bulk of carries, or he just won't cut it and that role will fall to Chris Brown. If whoever claims the starting position can stay healthy all year, there's no reason not to expect 1,200 yards and around 10 TDs.

When your backfield is an unknown, a guy who hasn't lived up to expectations and an injury prone back what would you call it?? Either way the chances of 1 guy having the job all year is slim to none.. His positive is he is down to his playing weight but his lazy attitude is hurting him..

The same could basically be said last year, but Travis Henry put up some pretty good numbers.

 

[Raiders Fan]

Jeff Fisher hasn't been a RBBC coach, so I think White will either be the featured back getting the bulk of carries, or he just won't cut it and that role will fall to Chris Brown. If whoever claims the starting position can stay healthy all year, there's no reason not to expect 1,200 yards and around 10 TDs.

When your backfield is an unknown, a guy who hasn't lived up to expectations and an injury prone back what would you call it?? Either way the chances of 1 guy having the job all year is slim to none.. His positive is he is down to his playing weight but his lazy attitude is hurting him..

The same could basically be said last year, but Travis Henry put up some pretty good numbers.

Would you bank on it with a pick early?? Too me the risks out weigh the rewards.. Still in my league Henry was the 19th RB last year.. Had 270 rushes.. Say the RB who gets it more gets 250.. I wouldn't want to risk that back as my #2 unless it was a large league..

 

[BeTheMatch]

Jeff Fisher hasn't been a RBBC coach, so I think White will either be the featured back getting the bulk of carries, or he just won't cut it and that role will fall to Chris Brown. If whoever claims the starting position can stay healthy all year, there's no reason not to expect 1,200 yards and around 10 TDs.

When your backfield is an unknown, a guy who hasn't lived up to expectations and an injury prone back what would you call it?? Either way the chances of 1 guy having the job all year is slim to none.. His positive is he is down to his playing weight but his lazy attitude is hurting him..

The same could basically be said last year, but Travis Henry put up some pretty good numbers.

Would you bank on it with a pick early?? Too me the risks out weigh the rewards.. Still in my league Henry was the 19th RB last year.. Had 270 rushes.. Say the RB who gets it more gets 250.. I wouldn't want to risk that back as my #2 unless it was a large league..

I'm not saying I would bank on it with an early pick. But that's not because I think it's going to be a RBBC. It's because I wouldn't know who to take yet with that pick - White or Brown. My point is that I would expect a clear starter with starter's numbers from one of them.

 

[Ilov80s]

If we can figure out which back will be the "main" guy, then there is value here. I have done a few mocks and both these guys fell into the teens.

 

[The Hank]

I sure hope that L. White gets it together, just picked him as my #3 RB -- any TEN homers have any insight to whats the latest in camp/media?

 

[-Crippler-]

I sure hope that L. White gets it together, just picked him as my #3 RB -- any TEN homers have any insight to whats the latest in camp/media?

The latest insight is that counting on L. White as your #3 is poor planning

 

[Brutis]

I sure hope that L. White gets it together, just picked him as my #3 RB -- any TEN homers have any insight to whats the latest in camp/media?

The latest insight is that counting on L. White as your #3 is poor planning

Not so fast, chances are he has VERY strong WR corps and good QB. If Lendale pans out as a #3 RB then he is golden. IMO these are the types of moves you need to make to win leagues. My leagues are never won by playing it 'safe"

 

[Rev]

Hey, if any of you are ready to take the next step in commitment, feel free to sign onto the LenDale White Bandwagon. We've been in the shop for about a year now, but we're all gassed up and ready to hit the road.

 

[massraider]

I have White and Henry on a dynasty team, and am not happy about it. I don't think either one is the answer.

White: Looked great in college, on a great team. So have a lot of other guys. Heck, some guys looked great in college in bad teams, and didn't pan out. It wouldn't surprise me if he has the talent, but is he a hard worker? I don't think he talented enough to coast. And you can't be coached to be a hard worker. You either are or you aren't. That doesn't mean the light can't go on, and a player can't do a 180, but I think it takes a little while for players to wise up. And maybe the work ethic question is overblown (Which I doubt. His teammates have questioned it. That doesn't happen often). Then there is the fact that he looked rather ordinary last year. Top backs always seem to be top backs right from the start, it seems to me. Now, he didn't get much of a shot last year, so I am not 100% ready to declare him a bust, not at all. Frankly, my biggest concern is that he is on a team that needs him, playing for a coach in Chow that knows him, and they ran out and drafted a back with more questions than him. That isn't much of a vote of confidence.

Chris Henry: What's to say that hasn't already been said. One game, against a bad rush defense, and great workouts.

 

[the_sig]

Jeff Fisher hasn't been a RBBC coach, so I think White will either be the featured back getting the bulk of carries, or he just won't cut it and that role will fall to Chris Brown. If whoever claims the starting position can stay healthy all year, there's no reason not to expect 1,200 yards and around 10 TDs.

When your backfield is an unknown, a guy who hasn't lived up to expectations and an injury prone back what would you call it?? Either way the chances of 1 guy having the job all year is slim to none. His positive is he is down to his playing weight but his lazy attitude is hurting him..

The same could basically be said last year, but Travis Henry put up some pretty good numbers.

Would you bank on it with a pick early?? Too me the risks out weigh the rewards.. Still in my league Henry was the 19th RB last year.. Had 270 rushes.. Say the RB who gets it more gets 250.. I wouldn't want to risk that back as my #2 unless it was a large league..

Why would anyone need to bank on this situation with an early pick? As of this morning FBG has an ADP for White @ 120 and CBrown @ 96. In a 10 or 12 teamer, that would equate to anywhere from an 8th to 12th rd pick. In that range, take your pick, either White or Brown (whomever you personally feel wins the majority of the work) would be a reasonable pick as a fantasy RB3/4 with upside potential.

 

[Kleck.]

He has the talent. I won't doubt White there. My concerns are with his desire and dedication to his work ethic. You have to really want it and work for it year round to be a top back in today's NFL. Not many can just get by on their natural talents anymore.

White's talents will take him as high as he wants to go. It's all up to him though, and I haven't been a huge believer thus far.

 

[ExtraPoint]

Last year, Fisher went with the hot back regardless of who started. They want White to be the guy but if Brown or Henry outplays him, they'll get the rock. Brown is also the only one of the three proven as a receiver so he's the leading candidate for third downs. I think White will start and I think he'll play well enough to get the majority. I dont neccessarily think though that he'll play well enough to run away with the job. I think Brown will push him for playing time, especially in passing situations. I dont expect anything from Henry but you never know.

 

[The Hank]

If I can get anything productive out of White after I drafted him in the 10th round of a 16 team league, I'll be happy.

I'll be paying attention to him in training camp and threads like these to keep track of the situation

 

[Mr. Peterson]

I sure hope that L. White gets it together, just picked him as my #3 RB -- any TEN homers have any insight to whats the latest in camp/media?

The latest insight is that counting on L. White as your #3 is poor planning

Not so fast, chances are he has VERY strong WR corps and good QB. If Lendale pans out as a #3 RB then he is golden. IMO these are the types of moves you need to make to win leagues. My leagues are never won by playing it 'safe"

I actually think the bolded part is one of the reasons I am worried about White's success. I do think he will have the highest amount of fantasy points of the Tnn RB's this year but it will still kinda be a RBBC. If the Titans go into next year without bringing in another RB through the draft or FA then I think it will be White's time to shine.

 

[VICK-tory]

I think I posted something about FatDale from draftsharks before; they contine to talk up White all the time. This is from their sleeper picks but I thnk the whole article is pay content>

Titans RB LenDale White: White’s been getting a lot of first-team reps in the first week of camp with no tweaks, pulls, or gimpys. While the national media continues to joke about his weight, we’re telling you straight up: White’s not fat. He’s in great shape. We have a source on the Titans’ staff who assures us White’s conditioning is strong: “He’s like a big, sharp rock.” The latest reports have White’s weight at 240 which – trust us – he carries it like it was 227. Only attitude or injury will stop White from beating out Chris Brown for the lead role. Don’t hesitate to take him as your RB3 (or hopefully RB4 if you’re lucky) because it’s an aggressive draft-to-win kinda move. Chris Henry? You can forget him. Shame on the Titans for drafting a 5th-round talent in the 2nd-round.

 

[Pnishthm]

Hey, if any of you are ready to take the next step in commitment, feel free to sign onto the LenDale White Bandwagon. We've been in the shop for about a year now, but we're all gassed up and ready to hit the road.

Here we go again. Guess we'll hear Rev yapping until about week 4

 

[The Hank]

I think I posted something about FatDale from draftsharks before; they contine to talk up White all the time. This is from their sleeper picks but I thnk the whole article is pay content>Titans RB LenDale White: White’s been getting a lot of first-team reps in the first week of camp with no tweaks, pulls, or gimpys. While the national media continues to joke about his weight, we’re telling you straight up: White’s not fat. He’s in great shape. We have a source on the Titans’ staff who assures us White’s conditioning is strong: “He’s like a big, sharp rock.” The latest reports have White’s weight at 240 which – trust us – he carries it like it was 227. Only attitude or injury will stop White from beating out Chris Brown for the lead role. Don’t hesitate to take him as your RB3 (or hopefully RB4 if you’re lucky) because it’s an aggressive draft-to-win kinda move. Chris Henry? You can forget him. Shame on the Titans for drafting a 5th-round talent in the 2nd-round.

 

[Wally Cleaver]

I sure hope that L. White gets it together, just picked him as my #3 RB -- any TEN homers have any insight to whats the latest in camp/media?

The latest insight is that counting on L. White as your #3 is poor planning

Not so fast, chances are he has VERY strong WR corps and good QB. If Lendale pans out as a #3 RB then he is golden. IMO these are the types of moves you need to make to win leagues. My leagues are never won by playing it 'safe"

I actually think the bolded part is one of the reasons I am worried about White's success. I do think he will have the highest amount of fantasy points of the Tnn RB's this year but it will still kinda be a RBBC. If the Titans go into next year without bringing in another RB through the draft or FA then I think it will be White's time to shine.

The Titans have VERY strong WR Corps????? Umm did they make some trades I am unaware of?

 

[Mimo]

Hey, if any of you are ready to take the next step in commitment, feel free to sign onto the LenDale White Bandwagon. We've been in the shop for about a year now, but we're all gassed up and ready to hit the road.

I am co-piloting this bandwagon, everyone else has to ride in tow.

 

[The Hank]

I sure hope that L. White gets it together, just picked him as my #3 RB -- any TEN homers have any insight to whats the latest in camp/media?

The latest insight is that counting on L. White as your #3 is poor planning

Not so fast, chances are he has VERY strong WR corps and good QB. If Lendale pans out as a #3 RB then he is golden. IMO these are the types of moves you need to make to win leagues. My leagues are never won by playing it 'safe"

I actually think the bolded part is one of the reasons I am worried about White's success. I do think he will have the highest amount of fantasy points of the Tnn RB's this year but it will still kinda be a RBBC. If the Titans go into next year without bringing in another RB through the draft or FA then I think it will be White's time to shine.

The Titans have VERY strong WR Corps????? Umm did they make some trades I am unaware of?

If you consider E. Moulds a "blockbuster" move

 

[Pnishthm]

Hey, if any of you are ready to take the next step in commitment, feel free to sign onto the LenDale White Bandwagon. We've been in the shop for about a year now, but we're all gassed up and ready to hit the road.

I am co-piloting this bandwagon, everyone else has to ride in tow.

I'm not sure there will be enough people to drive in tow, most are them are hurt from having to carry the bus home after it's co-pilots ditched last season. It's going to be another lonely bus ride. Do you people ever learn? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...white+bandwagon

 

[Soaring Eagle]

do you think white will get any receptions?

 

[Pnishthm]

do you think white will get any receptions?

He'll probably get a big reception from the fans if he makes it thru 4 games without an injury. That's about it.

 

[bcr8f]

I was scared to have him as my 2nd RB in 1 of my leagues so I am a bit skeptical. His weight is down but I think its a RBBC for him.

Took him as a #4, but wonder if Henry has any value.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I'm not sure there will be enough people to drive in tow, most are them are hurt from having to carry the bus home after it's co-pilots ditched last season. It's going to be another lonely bus ride. Do you people ever learn? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...white+bandwagon

I know it's way too early to write him off, but some of the comments in that thread from 06' were interesting looking back at them.

i've BEEN in, even when the haters were out in full force pre-draft, but it will be funny to see how much he proves them all wrong. the guy can play.

I've been hyping him up for a while. He has a very good chance to lead all rookies in rushing yards and TDs.

I believe he'll be Rookie of the Year.

I've got his cell #. Rookie of the Year 2006

Been on since day 1

Count me in for drinking the LenDale White Kool-Aid!

a more explosive eddie george...

That's only in the first 20 or so posts.

 

[benbadman]

I sure hope that L. White gets it together, just picked him as my #3 RB -- any TEN homers have any insight to whats the latest in camp/media?

At practice he isn't really performing at a level that would put him above the two Chris's (Brown & Henry). He doesn't look terrible in practice, he is making catches in the 2 min drills even running a little split end / flanker sometimes in the spread formation. Really hard to judge LenDale this early into training camp, he is the type of player, the guy who runs people over, that his progress this year will be hard to judge until tackle practice & the preseason games.That said, I wouldn't draft him as a RB3 in fantasy. Maybe I'd consider him as a 4th RB if I have 3 solid players to rotate, if I was in a league that drafted early this month. Chris Brown is definitely the Titans RB to own, or that should be drafted first.

 

[duaneok66]

I'm not sure there will be enough people to drive in tow, most are them are hurt from having to carry the bus home after it's co-pilots ditched last season. It's going to be another lonely bus ride. Do you people ever learn? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...white+bandwagon

I know it's way too early to write him off, but some of the comments in that thread from 06' were interesting looking back at them.

i've BEEN in, even when the haters were out in full force pre-draft, but it will be funny to see how much he proves them all wrong. the guy can play.

I've been hyping him up for a while. He has a very good chance to lead all rookies in rushing yards and TDs.

I believe he'll be Rookie of the Year.

I've got his cell #. Rookie of the Year 2006

Been on since day 1

Count me in for drinking the LenDale White Kool-Aid!

a more explosive eddie george...

That's only in the first 20 or so posts.

excellent post . . . and those threads are good comedy material when nothing is on TV . . .

 

[EBF]

I'm not sure there will be enough people to drive in tow, most are them are hurt from having to carry the bus home after it's co-pilots ditched last season. It's going to be another lonely bus ride. Do you people ever learn? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...white+bandwagon

I know it's way too early to write him off, but some of the comments in that thread from 06' were interesting looking back at them.

i've BEEN in, even when the haters were out in full force pre-draft, but it will be funny to see how much he proves them all wrong. the guy can play.

I've been hyping him up for a while. He has a very good chance to lead all rookies in rushing yards and TDs.

I believe he'll be Rookie of the Year.

I've got his cell #. Rookie of the Year 2006

Been on since day 1

Count me in for drinking the LenDale White Kool-Aid!

a more explosive eddie george...

That's only in the first 20 or so posts.

excellent post . . . and those threads are good comedy material when nothing is on TV . . .

It ain't over until the FatDale sings.

 

[LabelMan]

On the ground here in TN.

Fisher will give LenDale EVERY opportunity. Brown is insurance.

They want him to succeed in a big way.

I'd feel ok with him as a 3rd back on my roster (with great upside potential)

 

[waylander]

I believe, however I also realize I am a complete homer.

 

[BDubs]

On the ground here in TN.Fisher will give LenDale EVERY opportunity. Brown is insurance.They want him to succeed in a big way.I'd feel ok with him as a 3rd back on my roster (with great upside potential)

I too believe that he has the talent and the opportunity. Still not sold on the attitude and work ethic, though. I would be nervous with him as my RB3, but any lower is a worthwhile risk based on what we know so far.

 

[Pnishthm]

I'm not sure there will be enough people to drive in tow, most are them are hurt from having to carry the bus home after it's co-pilots ditched last season. It's going to be another lonely bus ride. Do you people ever learn? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...white+bandwagon

I know it's way too early to write him off, but some of the comments in that thread from 06' were interesting looking back at them.

i've BEEN in, even when the haters were out in full force pre-draft, but it will be funny to see how much he proves them all wrong. the guy can play.

I've been hyping him up for a while. He has a very good chance to lead all rookies in rushing yards and TDs.

I believe he'll be Rookie of the Year.

I've got his cell #. Rookie of the Year 2006

Been on since day 1

Count me in for drinking the LenDale White Kool-Aid!

a more explosive eddie george...

That's only in the first 20 or so posts.

Well done, that's some good stuff here. You never heard a peep from most of those guys midway thru the season.

 

[LHUCKS]

Time to buy low on Lendal...anyone who saw this kid run in college knows this.

He's not a practice player...never will be. I have a feeling he's going to kick it up a notch on Sundays.

Let's not forget he came out early as a Junior.

 

[Bob Magaw]

keys (& they are related) are white's conditioning (duh) & health...

if he has those going for him, imo he has the talent to succeed in the NFL...

while not a burner, he has the nifty feet & make-you-miss ability for a big man of a poor man's jerome bettis (OK, a destitute person's bettis)...

 

[Penguin]

I shouldn't be posting this as I am in quite a few leagues with people here, but Fisher is really behind this kid this year, his quote from about a week ago was, "Look out for Lendale in 2007." That's good enough for me. I mean seriously, his competition is injury riddled Chris Brown and workout wonder Chris Henry. I've been of the opinion that Henry was a wasted pick from the minute he was drafted, I have zero faith in the guy. I respect Chris Brown's talent but at this point I have to feature him on my "Penguin's Blue Light Special" due to his propensity for injury.

 

[The Hank]

I sure hope that L. White gets it together, just picked him as my #3 RB -- any TEN homers have any insight to whats the latest in camp/media?

At practice he isn't really performing at a level that would put him above the two Chris's (Brown & Henry). He doesn't look terrible in practice, he is making catches in the 2 min drills even running a little split end / flanker sometimes in the spread formation. Really hard to judge LenDale this early into training camp, he is the type of player, the guy who runs people over, that his progress this year will be hard to judge until tackle practice & the preseason games.That said, I wouldn't draft him as a RB3 in fantasy. Maybe I'd consider him as a 4th RB if I have 3 solid players to rotate, if I was in a league that drafted early this month. Chris Brown is definitely the Titans RB to own, or that should be drafted first.

 

[Pnishthm]

I shouldn't be posting this as I am in quite a few leagues with people here, but Fisher is really behind this kid this year, his quote from about a week ago was, "Look out for Lendale in 2007." That's good enough for me. I mean seriously, his competition is injury riddled Chris Brown and workout wonder Chris Henry. I've been of the opinion that Henry was a wasted pick from the minute he was drafted, I have zero faith in the guy. I respect Chris Brown's talent but at this point I have to feature him on my "Penguin's Blue Light Special" due to his propensity for injury.

The wasted pick was L. White. The guy ever get 10 reps of 100 lbs yet in the bench?

 

[Penguin]

The wasted pick was L. White. The guy ever get 10 reps of 100 lbs yet in the bench?

You may end up right. From where I sit I haven't seen him do anything to date to get me excited. I have never owned him on any team in the past and have not drafted him so far this year. All I'm saying is that Fisher is really behind this kid and every time I hear one of his teammates questioned about the running game, they always mention Lendale first. Just something to keep an eye on, especially when he can be had cheap.

 

[Bears_Man2]

I'm on. So much that I passed on quite a # of questionable #2 RB's for him. I like that situation a lot if Fisher gives him the job like I think he will and Brown on 3rd downs.

Lendale or bust

 

[PACKER 7]

Listen I'm not sure I'm ready to endorse L. White as Man of the Year yet, but this is what I know.

Tennessee Stats:

Team Rushing/game rank = 5th in NFL

Team Rushing Attempts/game rank = 14th in NFL

What does this tell me? They have a pretty dang good O-Line. They also rush efficiently and often.

2007 Rushing Schedule outlook:

Tennessee plays 9 times in 2007 against Defenses that ranked 17 or lower against the Rush in 2006.

So I might conclude, whoever gets the rock in Tennessee in 2007 is going to be gold just like Henry was in 2006.

If it's Lendale then You'd be dang lucky to have him as RB3 or RB4.

 

[Rev]

Hey, if any of you are ready to take the next step in commitment, feel free to sign onto the LenDale White Bandwagon. We've been in the shop for about a year now, but we're all gassed up and ready to hit the road.

I am co-piloting this bandwagon, everyone else has to ride in tow.

I'm not sure there will be enough people to drive in tow, most are them are hurt from having to carry the bus home after it's co-pilots ditched last season. It's going to be another lonely bus ride. Do you people ever learn? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...white+bandwagon

What are your White projections?

 

[Pnishthm]

Hey, if any of you are ready to take the next step in commitment, feel free to sign onto the LenDale White Bandwagon. We've been in the shop for about a year now, but we're all gassed up and ready to hit the road.

I am co-piloting this bandwagon, everyone else has to ride in tow.

I'm not sure there will be enough people to drive in tow, most are them are hurt from having to carry the bus home after it's co-pilots ditched last season. It's going to be another lonely bus ride. Do you people ever learn? http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...white+bandwagon

What are your White projections?

I don't think the guy can stay healthy enough to make accurate projections. I'll just go ahead and say he misses SEVERAL games. You should know this all too well...every time you jumped back on the bus last year the guy got a hangnail and couldn't play.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Listen I'm not sure I'm ready to endorse L. White as Man of the Year yet, but this is what I know.

Tennessee Stats:

Team Rushing/game rank = 5th in NFL

Team Rushing Attempts/game rank = 14th in NFL

What does this tell me? They have a pretty dang good O-Line. They also rush efficiently and often.

2007 Rushing Schedule outlook:

Tennessee plays 9 times in 2007 against Defenses that ranked 17 or lower against the Rush in 2006.

So I might conclude, whoever gets the rock in Tennessee in 2007 is going to be gold just like Henry was in 2006.

If it's Lendale then You'd be dang lucky to have him as RB3 or RB4.

Skewed somewhat by Youngs 552 yards.Remove those and they are 23rd in yardage. Much like Atlanta.

But they do remain at #10 in ypc at 4.3 (Down from 6th).

However, they are second to last in attempts sans VY running.

(apologies if any stats are incorrect, didnt use a calculator)