Mr. Chumley
Footballguy
Will he be the TD vulture he was last year or will Johnson get to reap more of the reward for his hard work?
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LenDale White (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mr. Chumley
- Start date
PatytonsGhost
Footballguy
Both I hope, he is in a contract year, stopped drinking the Tequila and he seems angry. He wants to get paid so he will leave it all on the field. Me likey
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RudeDog
Footballguy
He will get a more visible role as Johnson will bust in his sophomore season. Chris Johnson just seems to have lost some quickness (just the preseason, I know) and never seemed to be able to hit that small momentary hole that he sliced through so often last year. I look for him to really disappoint this year and the Titans will fall back on the big guy.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
[rant]
I think White is misrepresented when he's called "the goal-line vulture." He doesn't vulture anything....he IS Jeff Fisher's goal-line back. That's his gig. The Titans get inside the 5, and Tubby is clip-clopped onto the field almost always. If Johnson winds up getting more carries from inside the five, HE'S the guy who'll be "vulturing" from Fudgy the Whale, IMO.
[/rant]
Anyway, that all said, I don't think his role changes much, in theory. He'll be the "ice back" when they get leads and the primary goal line guy. The change will come, in my mind anyway, due to the Titans likely not having late leads as much as they did last year and he'll lose touches due to that. That has "devalued" him for me more than anything, but he's still probably going to be one of the "non-stud" guys who you can feel decent about at least approaching double digit TDs, if not cracking 10, just because Fisher likes the fact that he typically converts a lot of his chances at the stripe.
The contract year angle is a decent point too. Maybe in a typical year he lets a little something nagging keep him down a week or two. This year he may be more inclined to suck it up on ticky tacky stuff in hopes of landing a big payday.
I think White is misrepresented when he's called "the goal-line vulture." He doesn't vulture anything....he IS Jeff Fisher's goal-line back. That's his gig. The Titans get inside the 5, and Tubby is clip-clopped onto the field almost always. If Johnson winds up getting more carries from inside the five, HE'S the guy who'll be "vulturing" from Fudgy the Whale, IMO.
[/rant]
Anyway, that all said, I don't think his role changes much, in theory. He'll be the "ice back" when they get leads and the primary goal line guy. The change will come, in my mind anyway, due to the Titans likely not having late leads as much as they did last year and he'll lose touches due to that. That has "devalued" him for me more than anything, but he's still probably going to be one of the "non-stud" guys who you can feel decent about at least approaching double digit TDs, if not cracking 10, just because Fisher likes the fact that he typically converts a lot of his chances at the stripe.
The contract year angle is a decent point too. Maybe in a typical year he lets a little something nagging keep him down a week or two. This year he may be more inclined to suck it up on ticky tacky stuff in hopes of landing a big payday.
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
He'll score 12 or so TDs and get 750-900 yards. Make that 16/1,500 if CJ gets hurt.
If you have CJ you prob won't have Lendale. Stash Ringer instead (if either get hurt).
If you have CJ you prob won't have Lendale. Stash Ringer instead (if either get hurt).
BigGreenMachine
Footballguy
Fudgy the whale....CLASSIC![rant]
I think White is misrepresented when he's called "the goal-line vulture." He doesn't vulture anything....he IS Jeff Fisher's goal-line back. That's his gig. The Titans get inside the 5, and Tubby is clip-clopped onto the field almost always. If Johnson winds up getting more carries from inside the five, HE'S the guy who'll be "vulturing" from Fudgy the Whale, IMO.
[/rant]
Anyway, that all said, I don't think his role changes much, in theory. He'll be the "ice back" when they get leads and the primary goal line guy. The change will come, in my mind anyway, due to the Titans likely not having late leads as much as they did last year and he'll lose touches due to that. That has "devalued" him for me more than anything, but he's still probably going to be one of the "non-stud" guys who you can feel decent about at least approaching double digit TDs, if not cracking 10, just because Fisher likes the fact that he typically converts a lot of his chances at the stripe.
The contract year angle is a decent point too. Maybe in a typical year he lets a little something nagging keep him down a week or two. This year he may be more inclined to suck it up on ticky tacky stuff in hopes of landing a big payday.
Banger
Footballguy
His role will be exactly the same as last year except he'll have fewer opportunities. Ringer will have a few more carries than their #3 last year but mostly due to game situations. In close games and games where they were behind they leaned on CJ and will continue to do so. Last year was the best case scenario for White unless you think the defense and team record will be as good or better than last year. I don't think it will be.
The contract year stuff means nothing to Fisher and he's the one calling the plays. In fact it may mean more touches for Ringer late in games when they do have blow outs as they'll look to see how he does in game action.
The contract year stuff means nothing to Fisher and he's the one calling the plays. In fact it may mean more touches for Ringer late in games when they do have blow outs as they'll look to see how he does in game action.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yup...and he is pretty darn good at it.Scores...and rarely fumbles. Pretty much things Jeff Fisher loves.And while he gets nicked up here or there...he is ready to play on Sundays.
Papa Georgio
Footballguy
I guess as a Lendale owner my question is, will CJ still be vulturing all the yards and receptions from White?
White actually looked good in preseason...a bit quicker even. CJ didn't look as explosive but I am sure he is just fine. No way do I think the Titans defense will be as good this year as last, so I think Tenn will have to open it up a bit more than last year.
White actually looked good in preseason...a bit quicker even. CJ didn't look as explosive but I am sure he is just fine. No way do I think the Titans defense will be as good this year as last, so I think Tenn will have to open it up a bit more than last year.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
LandWhale was always my favorite.Fudgy the whale....CLASSIC![rant]
I think White is misrepresented when he's called "the goal-line vulture." He doesn't vulture anything....he IS Jeff Fisher's goal-line back. That's his gig. The Titans get inside the 5, and Tubby is clip-clopped onto the field almost always. If Johnson winds up getting more carries from inside the five, HE'S the guy who'll be "vulturing" from Fudgy the Whale, IMO.
[/rant]
Anyway, that all said, I don't think his role changes much, in theory. He'll be the "ice back" when they get leads and the primary goal line guy. The change will come, in my mind anyway, due to the Titans likely not having late leads as much as they did last year and he'll lose touches due to that. That has "devalued" him for me more than anything, but he's still probably going to be one of the "non-stud" guys who you can feel decent about at least approaching double digit TDs, if not cracking 10, just because Fisher likes the fact that he typically converts a lot of his chances at the stripe.
The contract year angle is a decent point too. Maybe in a typical year he lets a little something nagging keep him down a week or two. This year he may be more inclined to suck it up on ticky tacky stuff in hopes of landing a big payday.
lyon812
Footballguy
[rant]
I think White is misrepresented when he's called "the goal-line vulture." He doesn't vulture anything....he IS Jeff Fisher's goal-line back. That's his gig. The Titans get inside the 5, and Tubby is clip-clopped onto the field almost always. If Johnson winds up getting more carries from inside the five, HE'S the guy who'll be "vulturing" from Fudgy the Whale, IMO.
[/rant]
What a lot of people don't always grasp is that Lendale, for all the jokes about his size and talent level, performs the job they want him to perform, and does so very well. I wouldn't be surprised if they keep him beyond this year.
fantasysharkctb
Footballguy
His job for tomorrow night would be to knock the F outta Ryan Clark like he did last year if he gets one on one with him.
Mr. Chumley
Footballguy
I had Johnson last year and to me he was the worst kind of vulture. But then I was a little biased.
two_dollars
Footballguy
I think Lendale has his best season as a pro this year.
Spoken like a true Lendale owner....LOL.
fantasysharkctb
Footballguy
Lol, come on man. Lendale is the goal line and short yardage back. That is all.
thehornet
Footballguy
Actually hes better than that, but whatever.Only Fantasy Football players THINK that this is all he is good for/used for, but if you actually watched Titans games you would know that he carries the ball all over the field, not ONLY GL and SY situations.
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PatytonsGhost
Footballguy
People just seem to discredit Lendale and only view him as short yardage back, thats great to people who traded for him or drafted him.Chris Johnson is one of the fastest RB in the league, but hes also one of the lighter RB's also. Jeff Fisher will want to keep CJ fresh. I don't see CJ touching the ball 294 times again this year as he did last year. I don't think CJ will be a bust but i expect his numbers to regress this year and Lendale playing a bigger role. He rushed for 1110 yards the year before CJ, so he is definitely capable of being more than a short yardage back
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Banger
Footballguy
The Raven game tells you all you need to know.
Chaka
Footballguy
Sorry Banger but one game seldom tells anyone very much about what that they need to know.
Banger
Footballguy
Ok I'll spell it out. That game was a perfect example of the two types of players CJ and White are. He's good red zone back but can't carry the load on a good team by himself (which is why they've been trying to draft his replacement for 3 years) while CJ is a pro-bowl talent rookie and one of the best RBs in the game. The Ravens and their vaunted defense were getting gashed by CJ and had no answer for a 1 qtr and a half (I think he had 100 yards and a td in 12 touches) then White comes in and looks like the starting back he was prior to CJ (3.8 career ypc on a running team with a good line although he only netted 45 yards on 15 carries - 3 ypc). I'm not saying this because I didn't draft White or I drafted CJ, I've been saying this since last season and I've avoided him in every draft. White needs CJ, CJ doesn't need White.
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Dexter Manley
Footballguy
You're right, it does. If LBJ doesn't get injured, the Titans win that game, and go on to probably beat Pittsburgh at home.There were a couple runs in the 2nd half, one in particular, where had LBJ been in the game, he would have gotten a huge gain and at least on that one run probably taken it to the house.Saying that, LenDale's role on the team is well defined, and if you don't know what it is you're not paying attention. And he's very good at his assigned role, and I expect him to be even better this year, although I think he'll have fewer opportunities barring an injury to LBJ>Chris Johnson.
Chaka
Footballguy
All of those things might be true (then again LenDale's 2007 season doesn't necessarily support that contention) but we did not just learn that from the Baltimore game.What did we learn about Timmy Smith in Super Bowl XXII?
Banger
Footballguy
I didn't say one game always captures a player but that one did and it captured the difference between the two players and their roles and their value to the team. White is a below average back and CJ is a pro bowl rookie, do you disagree? That game clearly showed it as the Titans were walking away with the game with CJ and the game turned on its head when they needed to lean on White. That's why it's a good example.That's also why the team has and will continue to lean on CJ when they are behind or the games are tight. The stats clearly back that up and I posted it several times in the offseason. When the games got out of hand the Titans got big leads is when White got his carries. I don't believe the Titans defense will be as good this year and thus White won't get the number of garbage time carries he did last year. He'll still be a short yardage back and get a number of TDs but people looking for a bigger role for White I believe will be disappointed.
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Chaka
Footballguy
I said it before and I will say it again: you may be right but you did not learn that from one game. However that one game clearly reinforced an existing opinion of yours.In the first Baltimore game CJ ran 18 times for 44 yards, but that game clearly did not tell the whole story either.And please do not mistake my comments to indicate that I think LenDale is better than CJ.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Banger has posted this repeatedly. His analysis was fantastic and should be sufficient to quell any Fatdale fervor.
thatguythere
Footballguy
I like TD's.....
shader
Footballguy
WRONG. Any Titans fan wil tell you that he was useless last year.In fact, there is a thread on the Titans board I frequent that has a link to each Lendale touchdown last year. On most of those runs, he just ran right through the hole into the end zone. Any RB in the league could have done it. The myth that he is some incredible goalline back is wrong. He rarely runs people over. I think he broke less than ten tackles the entire year. Lendale was pathetic in every sense of the word a year ago. Whenever he was in the game, the offense immediately ground to a halt (aside from two games against Detroit and KC where the holes were so big you could drive a truck through them).Now Lendale has talent, don't get me wrong. Hopefully he'll use that talent this year, so if I was a Lendale owner, I'd be optimistic. He's lost alot of weight and looks noticeably quicker. But last year he was dreadful. He was an ok fantasy option with all the TD's, but the only thing he really did well was spell Chris Johnson and keep him fresh.
Aardvarks
Footballguy
LW's role will decrease because this year's team won't dominate games early as often. He came in to grind out some leads and ended up picking up more TDs than planned.
The loss of Haynesworth might almost *help* Chris Johnson b/c many games will be more competitive. CJ is their offense and everything runs through him and play-action to him.
The loss of Haynesworth might almost *help* Chris Johnson b/c many games will be more competitive. CJ is their offense and everything runs through him and play-action to him.
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
Aardvarks
Footballguy
In addition, LW wasn't hogging all the goal-line drills in camp this year. CJ was the tailback in *at least* half of them, unlike last yr when LW was clearly penciled as the 2-yard TD guy.
Remember, LW lost a ton of weight (for real, he looks pretty good) so we don't even know if he'll run with the same effectiveness.
I've always believed LW was sort of a poor man's Bettis who *needs* to play at a bulky weight to execute his style properly.
Remember, LW lost a ton of weight (for real, he looks pretty good) so we don't even know if he'll run with the same effectiveness.
I've always believed LW was sort of a poor man's Bettis who *needs* to play at a bulky weight to execute his style properly.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
shader,
You left out both of the Green Bay and Cleveland games where he also had excellent results. However your thesis is very strong. In those 4 games he had a 5.99 ypc!
Of the remaining 13 games [12 regular season and 1 play off] he averaged a paltry 2.71 ypc!
Jeff Fisher is not stupid and he realizes that Chris Johnson is a far better RB especially in the open field!
I believe that Johnson will see more rushes due to Haynesworth's departure due to the fact that they need more than 2.71 ypc ...
I also believe that he sees another 2 more passing targets per game.
This means that FatDale will see less touches; I'm thinking about a 20% reduction down to 10 a game. I'm projecting 600 yards rushing for the season.
I also don't see him with double digit TD's in 2009. The combination of CJ, Nate Washington and Jared Cook will assure this IMO.
You left out both of the Green Bay and Cleveland games where he also had excellent results. However your thesis is very strong. In those 4 games he had a 5.99 ypc!
Of the remaining 13 games [12 regular season and 1 play off] he averaged a paltry 2.71 ypc!
Jeff Fisher is not stupid and he realizes that Chris Johnson is a far better RB especially in the open field!
I believe that Johnson will see more rushes due to Haynesworth's departure due to the fact that they need more than 2.71 ypc ...
I also believe that he sees another 2 more passing targets per game.
This means that FatDale will see less touches; I'm thinking about a 20% reduction down to 10 a game. I'm projecting 600 yards rushing for the season.
I also don't see him with double digit TD's in 2009. The combination of CJ, Nate Washington and Jared Cook will assure this IMO.
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Banger
Footballguy
this is a portion of what I posted over the offseason with respect to CJ3 and White...
when the Titans were up by 8+ pts White got 55% of the carries (83 of his 200 carries - 42% of his '08 total),
when the Titans were up 4-7 pts CJ got 53% of the carries (16/14),
when the Titans were trailing to up by 3 CJ got 62% of the carries (168/103),
when the Titans were trailing to up by 2 CJ got 66% of the carries (125/63),
when the Titans were trailing to up by 1 CJ got 68% of the carries (125/58) and
when the Titans were trailing to tied CJ got 70% of the carries (117/51).
So if the Titans defense isn't as dominant and they trail more often than last season, which I see as a real possibility, the split over the season was 70-30 in CJ's favor. The situation and scoreboard with respect to White's and CJs touches is crucial and is overlooked by many. When the team is down it makes sense that they would lean more on Johnson (since he's clearly the better and more explosive back) and the numbers CLEARLY back that up. They also clearly back up the fact that a large % of Whites carries (42%) were when the team had a lead of 8+ pts so when you're looking at the situation a huge component of what each back will get in terms of touches will depend on the situation and scoreboard. If you think the team will go 13-3 and be as dominant or more this year than White is a nice buy.
when the Titans were up by 8+ pts White got 55% of the carries (83 of his 200 carries - 42% of his '08 total),
when the Titans were up 4-7 pts CJ got 53% of the carries (16/14),
when the Titans were trailing to up by 3 CJ got 62% of the carries (168/103),
when the Titans were trailing to up by 2 CJ got 66% of the carries (125/63),
when the Titans were trailing to up by 1 CJ got 68% of the carries (125/58) and
when the Titans were trailing to tied CJ got 70% of the carries (117/51).
So if the Titans defense isn't as dominant and they trail more often than last season, which I see as a real possibility, the split over the season was 70-30 in CJ's favor. The situation and scoreboard with respect to White's and CJs touches is crucial and is overlooked by many. When the team is down it makes sense that they would lean more on Johnson (since he's clearly the better and more explosive back) and the numbers CLEARLY back that up. They also clearly back up the fact that a large % of Whites carries (42%) were when the team had a lead of 8+ pts so when you're looking at the situation a huge component of what each back will get in terms of touches will depend on the situation and scoreboard. If you think the team will go 13-3 and be as dominant or more this year than White is a nice buy.
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Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Banger,
