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Lets talk about the MAN HIMSELF: LT (1 Viewer)

THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA

THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA

Footballguy
Fellas i know its kinda taboo talking about the greatest rb of this generation but i had been trying to trade for this guy and was doing some extensive research and tyring to get a feel for him.

here is LT's career:

+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 2001 sdg | 16 | 339 1236 3.6 10 | 59 367 6.2 0 |

| 2002 sdg | 16 | 372 1683 4.5 14 | 79 489 6.2 1 |

| 2003 sdg | 16 | 313 1645 5.3 13 | 100 725 7.2 4 |

| 2004 sdg | 15 | 339 1335 3.9 17 | 53 441 8.3 1 |

| 2005 sdg | 16 | 339 1462 4.3 18 | 51 370 7.3 2 |

| 2006 sdg | 16 | 348 1815 5.2 28 | 56 508 9.1 3 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 95 | 2050 9176 4.5 100 | 398 2900 7.3 11 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

Ok, he has been GREAT from day one. But im starting to ask myself how much longer will LT keep up this impressive run? he has had 2050 carries already which is TOP 26 ALL TIME. Also with RB shelf life in the NFL, there are good for about a 5-8 years.

He has never had any major injury, and is very durable. Will all these carries catch up to him at some point?

I still do think he will be great but i was wonder if/when will his production drop off. LT is mystifying!!

BUT in fantasy, most seem to KNOCK S.ALEXANDER saying he's too old and his production about to fall off the road side. Hmmm.... Take a look at this.

+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 2000 sea | 16 | 64 313 4.9 2 | 5 41 8.2 0 |

| 2001 sea | 16 | 309 1318 4.3 14 | 44 343 7.8 2 |

| 2002 sea | 16 | 295 1175 4.0 16 | 59 460 7.8 2 |

| 2003 sea | 16 | 326 1435 4.4 14 | 42 295 7.0 2 |

| 2004 sea | 16 | 353 1696 4.8 16 | 23 170 7.4 4 |

| 2005 sea | 16 | 370 1880 5.1 27 | 15 78 5.2 1 |

| 2006 sea | 10 | 252 896 3.6 7 | 12 48 4.0 0 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 106 | 1969 8713 4.4 96 | 200 1435 7.2 11 |

1st year he sat behind A.Green, after that he had been a wrokhorse himself till the madden cover last year. And he kinda was off last year but still managed 900yrds and 7td's. Better than alot of rb's in 10- games. But most seem to knock SA.

He has had less wear than LT, with him being in the year i year longer than LT.

Am i off or do you guys get this same misconception?

Imma see if i can look and find the career stats of great rb's like Faulk/Dickerson/Walter and other for comparison. Even so if SA is about to slow down, then by this same notion, isnt LT about to slow down too?

I guess this is why a few guys like SJAX and LJ in dynasty over them.

 
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Once in a while a great RB comes by and avoids/plays though injuries so long that he is never really affected by them until the end. Emmitt Smith was one, is LT another one? Maybe, maybe he will get hurt next year. It seems like he's due, right? If SA has a renaissance next season and LT deals with an injury taking him out for half of a season, those stats will even out a great deal. :thumbup:

 
SA was a product of his offense/line while LT is just supremely talented. Last year LT finally got a good line and look what he did. LT keeps himself in phenomenal shape, takes care of himself and minor injuries during the year, and has showed absolutely no signs of slowing, in fact he seems to be getting better. Stats are good and all but sometimes you need to watch with your own eyes.

I don't follow the logic at all that he's been good for a long time so he's "due" for a slowdown/bad season. The major pieces of his team are in place for the next few years (line/QB/TE/major defense parts), he's healthy and he just put up the best RB season in NFL history. He will rewrite the record books before he's done so get him if you can.

 
Couch Potato said:
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA said:
Fellas i know its kinda taboo talking about the greatest rb of this generation but i had been trying to trade for this guy and was doing some extensive research and tyring to get a feel for him.
Click to expand...
didn't you trade him away straight-up for Reggie Bush last offseason? How'd that work out for ya? :goodposting:
Click to expand...
No sir, that was for GORE R.BUSH P.RIVERS and BMW.And it didnt work out to bad... :)
 
Emmitt Smith's Career Stats (not including playoffs)

+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1990 dal | 16 | 241 937 3.9 11 | 24 228 9.5 0 |

| 1991 dal | 16 | 365 1563 4.3 12 | 49 258 5.3 1 |

| 1992 dal | 16 | 373 1713 4.6 18 | 59 335 5.7 1 |

| 1993 dal | 14 | 283 1486 5.3 9 | 57 414 7.3 1 |

| 1994 dal | 15 | 368 1484 4.0 21 | 50 341 6.8 1 |

| 1995 dal | 16 | 377 1773 4.7 25 | 62 375 6.0 0 |

| 1996 dal | 15 | 327 1204 3.7 12 | 47 249 5.3 3 |

| 1997 dal | 16 | 261 1074 4.1 4 | 40 234 5.8 0 |

| 1998 dal | 16 | 319 1332 4.2 13 | 27 175 6.5 2 |

| 1999 dal | 15 | 329 1397 4.2 11 | 27 119 4.4 2 |

| 2000 dal | 16 | 294 1203 4.1 9 | 11 79 7.2 0 |

| 2001 dal | 14 | 261 1021 3.9 3 | 17 116 6.8 0 |

| 2002 dal | 16 | 254 975 3.8 5 | 16 89 5.6 0 |

| 2003 ari | 10 | 90 256 2.8 2 | 14 107 7.6 0 |

| 2004 ari | 15 | 267 937 3.5 9 | 15 105 7.0 0 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 226 | 4409 18355 4.2 164 | 515 3224 6.3 11 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

 
Snotbubbles said:
Emmitt Smith's Career Stats (not including playoffs) +--------------------------+-------------------------+ | Rushing | Receiving |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1990 dal | 16 | 241 937 3.9 11 | 24 228 9.5 0 || 1991 dal | 16 | 365 1563 4.3 12 | 49 258 5.3 1 || 1992 dal | 16 | 373 1713 4.6 18 | 59 335 5.7 1 || 1993 dal | 14 | 283 1486 5.3 9 | 57 414 7.3 1 || 1994 dal | 15 | 368 1484 4.0 21 | 50 341 6.8 1 || 1995 dal | 16 | 377 1773 4.7 25 | 62 375 6.0 0 || 1996 dal | 15 | 327 1204 3.7 12 | 47 249 5.3 3 || 1997 dal | 16 | 261 1074 4.1 4 | 40 234 5.8 0 || 1998 dal | 16 | 319 1332 4.2 13 | 27 175 6.5 2 || 1999 dal | 15 | 329 1397 4.2 11 | 27 119 4.4 2 || 2000 dal | 16 | 294 1203 4.1 9 | 11 79 7.2 0 || 2001 dal | 14 | 261 1021 3.9 3 | 17 116 6.8 0 || 2002 dal | 16 | 254 975 3.8 5 | 16 89 5.6 0 || 2003 ari | 10 | 90 256 2.8 2 | 14 107 7.6 0 || 2004 ari | 15 | 267 937 3.5 9 | 15 105 7.0 0 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| TOTAL | 226 | 4409 18355 4.2 164 | 515 3224 6.3 11 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Click to expand...
:goodposting: THX thats what i needed to see.....OK, well nevermind this thread.
 
Banger said:
I don't follow the logic at all that he's been good for a long time so he's "due" for a slowdown/bad season.
Click to expand...
If you were referring to my statement, I didn't say he was due for a bad season. I said he may be due for an injury, becuase eventually RBs get them. He's gone 2000 carries without a major injury, that's pretty rare.
 
phthalatemagic said:
Banger said:
I don't follow the logic at all that he's been good for a long time so he's "due" for a slowdown/bad season.
Click to expand...
If you were referring to my statement, I didn't say he was due for a bad season. I said he may be due for an injury, becuase eventually RBs get them. He's gone 2000 carries without a major injury, that's pretty rare.
Click to expand...
It wasn't in response to you and it's not as if he hasn't been injured. He's just nursed them and played through them (ribs/groin/etc.) he just hasn't had a major injury. Injuries are combinations of luck, having the vision/talent to avoid big hits/being tackled awkwardly, smarts (going out of bounds), and maintainence (addressing minor injuries). LT has phenomenal vision which allows him to avoid hits, has a great stiff arm that keeps tacklers off him, uses the sidelines to avoid being tackled and takes very good care of himself during the season. All that being said anyone can get hurt but saying he's due is like flipping a coin and just because it's heads 4 times you bet big that tails will be next because it's "due".
 
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I think this is your comparison:

Code: 
Walter Payton				 +--------------------------+-------------------------+				 |		  Rushing		 |		Receiving		|+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1975 chi |  13 |   196	679	3.5	7 |	33	213   6.5	0 || 1976 chi |  14 |   311   1390	4.5   13 |	15	149   9.9	0 || 1977 chi |  14 |   339   1852	5.5   14 |	27	269  10.0	2 || 1978 chi |  16 |   333   1395	4.2   11 |	50	480   9.6	0 || 1979 chi |  16 |   369   1610	4.4   14 |	31	313  10.1	2 || 1980 chi |  16 |   317   1460	4.6	6 |	46	367   8.0	1 || 1981 chi |  16 |   339   1222	3.6	6 |	41	379   9.2	2 || 1982 chi |   9 |   148	596	4.0	1 |	32	311   9.7	0 || 1983 chi |  16 |   314   1421	4.5	6 |	53	607  11.5	2 || 1984 chi |  16 |   381   1684	4.4   11 |	45	368   8.2	0 || 1985 chi |  16 |   324   1551	4.8	9 |	49	483   9.9	2 || 1986 chi |  16 |   321   1333	4.2	8 |	37	382  10.3	3 || 1987 chi |  12 |   146	533	3.7	4 |	33	217   6.6	1 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+|  TOTAL   | 190 |  3838  16726	4.4  110 |   492   4538   9.2   15 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
 
If they kept a stat for "untouched touches" -- plays where a player touches the ball but isn't tackled -- LT2 would lead the league. Not only does he score so often, he gets out of bounds on a huge percentage of his outside runs and screen passes. Add in his ability to take as little damage as possible when he does get hit, and he probably takes less wear and tear for his touches than anyone. And of course, he never plays in pre-season so that helps somewhat too.

All that said, yes, of course he could wear down or get hurt. Most RBs have a lost season or two along the way. I don't think LT2 is at any more risk than any other RB, but there's still risk.

 
Banger said:
phthalatemagic said:
Banger said:
I don't follow the logic at all that he's been good for a long time so he's "due" for a slowdown/bad season.
Click to expand...
If you were referring to my statement, I didn't say he was due for a bad season. I said he may be due for an injury, becuase eventually RBs get them. He's gone 2000 carries without a major injury, that's pretty rare.
Click to expand...
It wasn't in response to you and it's not as if he hasn't been injured. He's just nursed them and played through them (ribs/groin/etc.) he just hasn't had a major injury. Injuries are combinations of luck, having the vision/talent to avoid big hits/being tackled awkwardly, smarts (going out of bounds), and maintainence (addressing minor injuries). LT has phenomenal vision which allows him to avoid hits, has a great stiff arm that keeps tacklers off him, uses the sidelines to avoid being tackled and takes very good care of himself during the season. All that being said anyone can get hurt but saying he's due is like flipping a coin and just because it's heads 4 times you bet big that tails will be next because it's "due".
Click to expand...
That is a conveniently easy analogy, but I'm not sure it holds as true in this situation as you make out. In the coin toss, a prior event such as the coin coming up heads, does not effect the next flip being either heads or tails. With RB lifespan (and performing at an elite level) I think it is valid to state that at some point, prior events (workload, prior injuries, running style, etc..) CAN effect future results.

I'm not saying that this is the tipping point year for LT, just pointing out that at some point, his prior events will impact his future performance, which is unlike the coin toss analogy imo.

 
the_sig said:
Banger said:
phthalatemagic said:
Banger said:
I don't follow the logic at all that he's been good for a long time so he's "due" for a slowdown/bad season.
Click to expand...
If you were referring to my statement, I didn't say he was due for a bad season. I said he may be due for an injury, becuase eventually RBs get them. He's gone 2000 carries without a major injury, that's pretty rare.
Click to expand...
It wasn't in response to you and it's not as if he hasn't been injured. He's just nursed them and played through them (ribs/groin/etc.) he just hasn't had a major injury. Injuries are combinations of luck, having the vision/talent to avoid big hits/being tackled awkwardly, smarts (going out of bounds), and maintainence (addressing minor injuries). LT has phenomenal vision which allows him to avoid hits, has a great stiff arm that keeps tacklers off him, uses the sidelines to avoid being tackled and takes very good care of himself during the season. All that being said anyone can get hurt but saying he's due is like flipping a coin and just because it's heads 4 times you bet big that tails will be next because it's "due".
Click to expand...
That is a conveniently easy analogy, but I'm not sure it holds as true in this situation as you make out. In the coin toss, a prior event such as the coin coming up heads, does not effect the next flip being either heads or tails. With RB lifespan (and performing at an elite level) I think it is valid to state that at some point, prior events (workload, prior injuries, running style, etc..) CAN effect future results.

I'm not saying that this is the tipping point year for LT, just pointing out that at some point, his prior events will impact his future performance, which is unlike the coin toss analogy imo.
Click to expand...
I agree as players get older that injuries can/do have cumulative effects but generally that shows itself in a slowdown in production, speed, recovery time from injuries, etc. over time. The issue I have is the assumption that a major injury WILL happen and it's just a question of when. I don't subscribe to that theory.
 
Banger said:
SA was a product of his offense/line while LT is just supremely talented. Last year LT finally got a good line and look what he did. LT keeps himself in phenomenal shape, takes care of himself and minor injuries during the year, and has showed absolutely no signs of slowing, in fact he seems to be getting better. Stats are good and all but sometimes you need to watch with your own eyes.I don't follow the logic at all that he's been good for a long time so he's "due" for a slowdown/bad season. The major pieces of his team are in place for the next few years (line/QB/TE/major defense parts), he's healthy and he just put up the best RB season in NFL history. He will rewrite the record books before he's done so get him if you can.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. Add to the fact that he's going to be running with a chip on his shoulder this year after the tough loss to the Pats/Belicheck controversy, coupled with having Turner guide the offense, and the pieces are still well in place.
 
Unnamed Rookie +--------------------------+-------------------------+ | Rushing | Receiving |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1975 chi | 13 | 196 679 3.5 7 | 33 213 6.5 0 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+Look at that. The guy's obviously crap and will never amount to anything!

Sincerely,

Most of the so-called Sharks on this board.

 
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA said:
Fellas i know its kinda taboo talking about the greatest rb of this generation but i had been trying to trade for this guy and was doing some extensive research and tyring to get a feel for him.
Click to expand...
I may be wrong in my memory, but didn't you trade LT away for Bush last year?I figure you already have your greatest RB of this generation. There can't be two "greatest," can there?
 
Riffraff said:
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA said:
Fellas i know its kinda taboo talking about the greatest rb of this generation but i had been trying to trade for this guy and was doing some extensive research and tyring to get a feel for him.
Click to expand...
I may be wrong in my memory, but didn't you trade LT away for Bush last year?I figure you already have your greatest RB of this generation. There can't be two "greatest," can there?
Click to expand...
Says in post #6 he got a lot more.
 
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redman said:
I think this is your comparison:

Walter Payton +--------------------------+-------------------------+ | Rushing | Receiving |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1975 chi | 13 | 196 679 3.5 7 | 33 213 6.5 0 || 1976 chi | 14 | 311 1390 4.5 13 | 15 149 9.9 0 || 1977 chi | 14 | 339 1852 5.5 14 | 27 269 10.0 2 || 1978 chi | 16 | 333 1395 4.2 11 | 50 480 9.6 0 || 1979 chi | 16 | 369 1610 4.4 14 | 31 313 10.1 2 || 1980 chi | 16 | 317 1460 4.6 6 | 46 367 8.0 1 || 1981 chi | 16 | 339 1222 3.6 6 | 41 379 9.2 2 || 1982 chi | 9 | 148 596 4.0 1 | 32 311 9.7 0 || 1983 chi | 16 | 314 1421 4.5 6 | 53 607 11.5 2 || 1984 chi | 16 | 381 1684 4.4 11 | 45 368 8.2 0 || 1985 chi | 16 | 324 1551 4.8 9 | 49 483 9.9 2 || 1986 chi | 16 | 321 1333 4.2 8 | 37 382 10.3 3 || 1987 chi | 12 | 146 533 3.7 4 | 33 217 6.6 1 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| TOTAL | 190 | 3838 16726 4.4 110 | 492 4538 9.2 15 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Click to expand...
There are a lot of similarities between Tomlinson and Payton.Off the top of my head:

(For ease, I'm using past tense for both, although Tomlinson should be present tense.)

1. Both were loyal to their NFL teams. (They played for bad teams early in their careers, but never wanted to be traded to a winner. They wanted to make their current team a winner.)

2. Both had extremely high character and were well thought of and respected off the field.

3. Both had an extremely rigorous off-season training regimen. (LT bought a house with a back yard that opens into a steep hill he can run up, specifically to emulate Payton.)

4. Both were extremely versatile -- great runners, effective blockers (although Payton was better in this area), great receivers, and even very good passers. (LT still has to throw a few more TD passes to catch up to Payton.)

5. Both have that sort of freeze in mid-air with one foot out in front just before making a sharp move. It's hard to describe, but Payton did it a lot, and every time LT does it I think of Payton.

6. Both had serious hops, jumping over the line of scrimmage at the goal line.

7. Both had a wicked stiff-arm.

8. Both were extremely durable. Neither one ever missed a game due to injury.

I'm sure there are plenty more good comparisons . . . feel free to add them on.

 
Think one thing everyone is missing here is the running styles of these guys.

Alexander is a big back - between the tackles kind of player. When I watch him play I see him take punishment. Same with Steven Jackson, C. Portis, Larry Johnson.

I am a Chargers season ticket holder - not only have I seen LT in person but I tivo every game and watch them again.

LT seems to never take the big hit. He sorta dives forward and gets under the tackles and avoids ever getting stood upright. Also I would bet that 1/2 of his TD's last year he was virtually untouched.

I just think LT has the best vision of any NFL running back ever. Rarely do you see him put his shoulder down and move a pile forward. He runs OB on many of his plays or sorta dives under tackles.

This is what makes him special.

Any one else agree?

 
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smcindoe said:
If they kept a stat for "untouched touches" -- plays where a player touches the ball but isn't tackled -- LT2 would lead the league. Not only does he score so often, he gets out of bounds on a huge percentage of his outside runs and screen passes. Add in his ability to take as little damage as possible when he does get hit, and he probably takes less wear and tear for his touches than anyone. And of course, he never plays in pre-season so that helps somewhat too.

All that said, yes, of course he could wear down or get hurt. Most RBs have a lost season or two along the way. I don't think LT2 is at any more risk than any other RB, but there's still risk.
Click to expand...
Having watched nearly all of LT's games since 2003, I've been amazed at how little he gets hit. It seems like half of his carries end up with him out of bounds untouched. It's rare for a RB not to suffer a major injury but the way he plays makes it more likely than for most RB's.
 
Barry Sanders was the king of avoiding big hits. He was falling away from the tackler or going out of bounce as 3 guys bore down on him. He often would just falldown when he knew he was cornered and going to get smeared. Some people criticized Barry for not turning it upfield for an extra yard or two. I think he was just being smart. He knew without him the Lions wouldn't have a chance. Scott Mitchell & Kramer could only do so much. 1993 was the only year Barry missed any significant time (3 games)

+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1989 det | 15 | 280 1470 5.2 14 | 24 282 11.8 0 |

| 1990 det | 16 | 255 1304 5.1 13 | 36 480 13.3 3 |

| 1991 det | 15 | 342 1548 4.5 16 | 41 307 7.5 1 |

| 1992 det | 16 | 312 1352 4.3 9 | 29 225 7.8 1 |

| 1993 det | 11 | 243 1115 4.6 3 | 36 205 5.7 0 |

| 1994 det | 16 | 331 1883 5.7 7 | 44 283 6.4 1 |

| 1995 det | 16 | 314 1500 4.8 11 | 48 398 8.3 1 |

| 1996 det | 16 | 307 1553 5.1 11 | 24 147 6.1 0 |

| 1997 det | 16 | 335 2053 6.1 11 | 33 305 9.2 3 |

| 1998 det | 16 | 343 1491 4.3 4 | 37 289 7.8 0 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 153 | 3062 15269 5.0 99 | 352 2921 8.3 10 |

 
smcindoe said:
And of course, he never plays in pre-season so that helps somewhat too.
Click to expand...
I also remember reading at some point this past season that he doesn't participate in contact in any way during practice either anymore. Can someone back me up on that one?
 
The guy who always blew me away (and infuriated me as a 'Skins fan) for his ability to avoid big contact was Emmitt Smith, and that was because of a combination of how much he ran between the tackles, and also because he wasn't nearly as explosive as some other RB's like Sanders, Payton, etc. He just always seemed just above/below/to the side of the blow from the defenders trying to hit him.

 
HERE are all of LT's TDs in 2006.

Touchdown #20 at the 3:45 mark of the video is the prettiest TD I've seen in a long time.

Perfectly executed catch and run. :football:

 
I was never worried about LT until I heard his Dad died. Now you all can throw up 7 year RB stats, stats versus grass vs. turf, stats reguarding RBs with X amount of carries, and throw up more stats vs. stats vs. stats. But I was never worried about that. LT is a one in a lifetime RB. I'm more worried about his physche.

I'm not one to play Dr. Phil, and I'm not about to look up stats reguarding a player who has had an immediate family member die, but this has to take a toll on an individual.

LT has lost his coach of his NFL career and he has lost his father this past off season.

LT will be carrying some emotional baggage into 2007. Like I said, I'm no Dr. Phil, but this has to send some red flags to buyers.

I am a huge LT fan, and try to get him in my auction league every year if the price is right, but...

...after the huge regular season, followed by a quick playoff exit, followed by his immature post game, followed by the death of of his father, followed by the axing of his coach...

...there are a few more question marks concerning the best RB in the NFL.

Buyer beware.

 
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