Let's talk Derrick Ward (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Tefertiller]

Bucs RB Earnest Graham, who missed six games and was placed on injured reserve with a high ankle sprain, went through drills at full speed.

Fellow RB Cadillac Williams, who tore the patellar tendon in his left knee last season after suffering the same injury in his right knee in 2007, continued his rehabilitation. Williams hasn’t been medically cleared to resume football-related activities

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/05/12/bucs-te-wi...es-expected-it/

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Is TB's offensive line going to be good? Anyone with some talent could put up numbers with the Giants right now. I'm just thinking back to GB in 2003, with Najeh Davenport and Tony Fisher averaging 5+ ypc. Ward is better than them, but not orders of magnitude better.

Very risky pick to me, but if you believe he'll have a great year he's someone you could get after drafting 3 good WRs.

Graham looks like a better value, esp. for TDs. Caddy is undraftable.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

He also has been jammed up in NY, where they have had Barber, then Jacobs... both pretty uniquely talented guys.

...and when he was "cut" by his first team (actaully he was placed on the practice squad by the Jets and snatched up by the Giants) he was stuck behind Curtis Martin (maybe people here have heard of him) and Lamont Jordan - not exactly slouches.ETA: So when he hardly sniffed the field during his first three seasons (he was actually a decent kick-off returner) he was behind guys like Curtis Martin (Hall of Famer), Lamont Jordan, Tiki Barber (borderline Hall of Famer) and Brandon Jacobs. It's hard to really make a statement as to his talent level based on being a backup to those guys. He did make Ryan Grant expendable and held off Ahamad Bradshaw last season despite the fact the Bradshaw was the Giants best RB during their SuperBowl run in the playoffs in 2007. There is talent there if you watched him run - he's a pretty complete back.As far as being a seventh rounder if you read up on his history you may see why.

 

[shamrock84]

As far as being a seventh rounder if you read up on his history you may see why.

Or you could just tell us...

 

[JamesTheScot]

I don't think he's a special talent. His profile actually reads a lot like Earnest Graham's.

That's what always puzzles me about this whole Ward vs. Graham debate. They are so similar. If one or the other had the job, I'd be tempted to take them later as my RB2 because I see a decent line in front of a strong back with decent hands. I think they are pretty interchangeable.

How are they similar? Aside from both playing the RB position and both (currently) calling Tampa Bay home?

Similar body types, Graham is 5'9" and goes 225#, Ward is 5'11" and goes 228#.Both are not that fast in terms of long speed but have enough to break off long runs.

Both have pretty good vision and make the most out of good blocking when they get it.

Neither are that elusive and aren't going to create yards when the blocking isn't there.

They both run strong between the tackles. Ward actually gets a raw deal by being compared to Jacobs.

Both are decent receivers out of the backfield - though Ward may be a little better.

Graham may have an edge in blocking but I still think they are pretty close in that regard.

Both guys can be 3 down backs with their power running on first and second downs and their receiving/blocking skills on third.

Neither guy was highly sought after coming out of college and both rode the pine for the first few years.

I think Ward looks so good to people because he was running in scheme that put up more yards and more yards per carry than any other club last season. That's not a knock on Ward. I like him. But I've tempered my expectations because I don't expect him to do in TB what he did in NY because he doesn't have that kind of supporting cast in TB. And I think that is going to leave the door open for Graham to get his touches too.

 

[JamesTheScot]

I think it's naive to think contracts don't matter. They matter to the GM that tendered them and what matters to the GM matters to the rookie head coach. Also, Ward has averaged a yard more a carry than Graham for their careers and is also better as a receiver. These are not equal talents we are talking about. I don't expect Ward to get the same workload as a Michael Turner, but he is clearly the #1 back in TB.

It's not just the difference in the value of the contracts, it's the structure. There is a lot said in that. Graham has a deal with no guaranteed money, and back-loaded heavily... a recipe for a forced re-negotiation or him being cut. Ward's deal is front-loaded, indicating they plan on getting something out of him early. Ignore that if you want, but barring Graham going above and beyond what he has been thus far in the NFL, it sounds like someone in Tampa views Ward as the #1 back.As far as Ward's history, there are multiple factors here. He has been injury prone, which has limited his overall numbers. He also has been jammed up in NY, where they have had Barber, then Jacobs... both pretty uniquely talented guys. I wonder how many people said the same things about Ryan Grant in 2007, considering he came from the same NYG situation. He was un-drafted, stuck behind a bunch of talented backs, and seemed injury prone... but once he got his shot, he has produced. Obviously, not the same situation as Ward, as Ward is a bit more established than Grant was in 2007... but still, the negatives I'm hearing pointed out about Ward are the same ones that could have been made about Grant.It's all speculation at this point, but to ignore the obvious indicators that Ward is in a good situation to become a solid producer, is kinda foolish. If the Buc's thought Graham was the answer, I doubt they would have made Ward such an immediate priority, and paid him the way they did.

How much role do you guys think the HC had in structuring those contracts? Do you think he's going to go by what he sees in practice or by what the FO is paying to each guy? I'll say it again, HC's care about wins. So do GM's for that matter. Are the Bucs better off with Ward+Graham in 2009 than just Graham? Of course they are. It's makes good real football sense. And so does RBBC.I had Graham, Grant and Ward all on my team last year. I think there are some similarities between the three. Good all around RB's, but not elite, who are completely dependant upon their surrounding talent to put up good fantasy numbers. Situation makes or breaks these guys...and their histories in the league bear that out.

 

[Tanner9919]

He definitely sticks out as a potential steal in redraft leagues. Here's what I don't like:- He's not that talented. He's already 29 years old (by opening day) and he's only now getting his first real shot at a starting role. If he was really a standout player, I think he would've emerged by now. I'm not convinced that he's an upgrade over Graham. A healthy Caddy (lol) might be better than both. - The Buccaneers look like a potential trainwreck. Unless Leftwich plays well and keeps this team in the playoff hunt, we could see Josh Freeman in the starting lineup this season. Either way, I don't have a good feeling about the Bucs in 2009. Winslow and Bryant might make things interesting, but this looks like a very mediocre team in a tough division. I think it's going to be a long year for them.Basically, Ward looks like an obvious steal candidate on the surface, but he might be the next Stacy Mack. I'm pretty lukewarm on his outlook.

Fair enough on the Bucs, but not sure about questioning his talent based on what he's done He was blocked in NY, but did all that he could with his opportunities -- had the highest YPC in the NFL last season (for RB's with any significant of carries) and averages 5.1 YPC for his career. Running for more than 1,000 yards on 184 carries is impressive. Many people said the same thing about Turner last year. There are certainly differences, and I'm not saying that Ward will pull a Turner, but I do think the talent is there. Whether he can sustain it with more carries and if he can remain healthy are the bigger questions.

as opposed to Graham, who was basically given the starting RB position last season, and flopped..had Graham produced at a high level, the Bucs would not have gone after a free agent RB like Ward.Ward will likely emerge as the starting RB for the Bucs, with Graham playing the role of the short yardage/Goal line RB..

 

[Dr. Octopus]

As far as being a seventh rounder if you read up on his history you may see why.

Or you could just tell us...

Ward gained 1,091 yards with 11 touchdowns on 197 carries (5.5-yard avg.) and caught three passes for 49 yards (16.3-yard avg.) in 20 games at Fresno State. Ward was ruled academically ineligible to play at Fresno State in 1998, he earned Freshman All-America honors the following year despite playing with a broken right hand. He was limited to only seven games for the Bulldogs in 2000 due to a knee injury. His Fresno State career ended when he was again ruled ineligible to play in 2001 and 2002 due to academics.Ward transferred to Ottawa University in Kansas for his final year in 2003, when he set NAIA single-season records with 2,061 rushing yards, 28 touchdowns and 7.8 yards per carry (263 attempts). Also had 47 yards on four receptions (11.8-yard avg.) in ten games at Ottawa.

So basically he took a number of years to finish his college career and then did so at a small obscure school. The red flags raised by his academics and his advanced age likely scraed some teams away from drafting him. If he has stayed at Fresno State and played regularly he likely would have been draft higher.

 

[switz]

Granted, the presence of Graham is an issue, and this is very likely to be some sort of RBBC. That said, Ward's in a pretty ideal situation: he's an explosive back running behind a great line in a blocking scheme that's familiar to him, and he's on a good team that should be in a lot of close games and remain committed to the run.

Graham, Caddy (if he returns) and I believe Dunn is still there.Ward will be mired in RBBC.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Granted, the presence of Graham is an issue, and this is very likely to be some sort of RBBC. That said, Ward's in a pretty ideal situation: he's an explosive back running behind a great line in a blocking scheme that's familiar to him, and he's on a good team that should be in a lot of close games and remain committed to the run.

Graham, Caddy (if he returns) and I believe Dunn is still there.Ward will be mired in RBBC.

Dunn has been released and unfortunately I really don't see Caddy ever making an impact again (reports are already surfacing that training camp could be an issue for him).I think it boils down to Ward and Graham. Personally given his contract and skill set I think Ward gets the majority of carries but admittedly that's hardly set in stone.