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Le'Veon Bell compared to James Conner (1 Viewer)

For Fantasy Football, how does James Conner compare to a healthy and motivated Le'Veon Bell?

  • Conner is equal to Bell

    Votes: 5 3.4%
  • Conner is 90% of Bell

    Votes: 8 5.5%
  • Conner is 80% of Bell

    Votes: 35 24.1%
  • Conner is 70% of Bell

    Votes: 52 35.9%
  • Conner is 60% of Bell

    Votes: 20 13.8%
  • Conner is 50% of Bell

    Votes: 12 8.3%
  • Conner is 40% of Bell

    Votes: 6 4.1%
  • Conner is 30% of Bell

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • Conner is 20% of Bell

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • Conner is 10% of Bell

    Votes: 2 1.4%

  • Total voters
    145

Joe Bryant

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Staff member
Let's assume a hypothetical in Le'Veon Bell is the starting running back for the Steeler and he's healthy and has a contract he's happy with.

The question: How does today's version of James Conner compare?

 
I always thought Bell benefited immensely from his situation. His running style wouldn't be as effective in a one cut scheme, hes not as decisive as some head coaches would like, and sometimes he dances too much.  An offense with a HOF QB and HOF WR allows Bell more time to diagnose and dance around until he finds some space.  I think as a pure runner him and Connor are not far off,  however his receiving prowess (hands, route running, and size) separates him from Connor a good bit.  Bell should be thankful for his situation considering every RB that has filled in for him has done so admirably. This team goes as far as Big Ben and the defense take them and that's why hes not gonna get paid.

I voted 70% btw.

 
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Nobody creates mismatches for the offense like Bell when he splits out at WR. This is where these two separate IMO.

Normal conditions; rushing downs, catching out of the backfield... yes, comparable.

Bell at WR causes DC's to lose their ####! Off the top of my head I can't think of another RB with that effect (ever).

 
Nobody creates mismatches for the offense like Bell when he splits out at WR. This is where these two separate IMO.

Normal conditions; rushing downs, catching out of the backfield... yes, comparable.

Bell at WR causes DC's to lose their ####! Off the top of my head I can't think of another RB with that effect (ever).
Faulk?

 
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I just don’t think it’s the same. I don’t understand how people talk about a player as a top 3 talent for several years and then it’s whoops nope he’s easily replaceable by this mid round backup. No I don’t think so and indeed Conner has slowed down.

But it’s not just that I think the system is different with Haley gone. You can see it with Brown and just the playcalling. 

 
I just don’t think it’s the same. I don’t understand how people talk about a player as a top 3 talent for several years and then it’s whoops nope he’s easily replaceable by this mid round backup. No I don’t think so and indeed Conner has slowed down.

But it’s not just that I think the system is different with Haley gone. You can see it with Brown and just the playcalling. 
There's no doubt the play calling is a little different this year, and the Steelers' line was missing two starters last week.  

Anyone who thinks Conner is as good as Bell either hasn't watched them or owns Conner in a fantasy league.  It's ridiculous to think that.

At the same time, anyone who thinks Bell is head and shoulders better than Conner should try and watch Conner a little bit.  He was a dominant RB in college who lost some traction when he battled cancer, but the talent was always there.  Conner has the skills and balance to be an above average NFL RB. 70% or 80% seems like a pretty reasonable choice here.

If this was a mediocre or below average offense that needed the RB to be a superstar to be successful, then it would be a huge drop-off.  With Ben, Brown, and JuJu out there behind a line, Conner is more than good enough for the Steelers' offense to remain nearly as explosive as ever.

 
I voted 60 percent. The patient style Bell shows is because of the Steelers line, but anyone that thinks he can't adjust and be a one cut back is wrong and never seen him play at Michigan State behind a bad line at times and one year he was their only weapon. 

Connor is good, but if you watch highlights of both you can see the difference. 

Bell is a top 3 back in the league and has a legit claim as the best back in the league. Connor is probably a top 15ish back in the league, but he could improve. 
If you could spell Conner's name correctly, it would help your credibility. I have nothing but respect for you, msu, but it doesn't help an analysis.  

 
If you could spell Conner's name correctly, it would help your credibility. I have nothing but respect for you, msu, but it doesn't help an analysis.  
Auto correct on my phone. Sorry. I hid the post anyways. It was asking for fantasy, I was more discussing their value on the field. 

 
Auto correct on my phone. Sorry. I hid the post anyways. It was asking for fantasy, I was more discussing their value on the field. 
Yeah, that makes sense. You're one of the people on this board I listen to, which is why I take your analysis seriously. They are different on the field and I know you're an MSU fan, of course, so I give it extra weight.  

 
IFantasy wise I would say 90 percent.  Less talented players can put up similar numbers in a good spot. Look at how bad Gurley was 2 years ago. Look at Kareem Hunt this year. I am not saying Hunt is a bad back, but he isn't on the same level talent wise as Zeke, Kamara, Gurely, Bell etc. 

 
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How would Bell compare to regular Bell if teams game planned for him the way they game plan for Conner? 150% of regular Bell?

 
How many of these threads do we need? Come on.
I think it was an attempt at containing the animosity of the other threads. YMMV, IMHO. That's what I see it as. It's pretty clear what Conner is and what Bell is -- and we have a constant -- a line without Decastro. But he's good, and I think somebody is trying to draw the moderation hate away from the Bell thread.  

 
Lev Bell 2017: 4.79 per touch

James Conner 2018: 5.10 per touch

Lev Bell 2017: 5.3 rec per game

James Conner 2018: 5 rec per game

People ignored Bell’s regression on the ground last year because he’s a very good receiver but now people are equally ignoring Conner matching Bell’s production from last year. Conner has the 15th fastest run on the year at 21.03 MPH a speed never achieved by Bell last year. I believe there needs to be a realignment of where you think Bell is at this point in his career and you should be nervous if some similar team to Arizona with a bad line and a Mike McCoy OC get ahold of him. He will not meet league averages. I know that’s an unpopular opinion but that’s how I see it. 

 
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Lev Bell 2017: 4.79 per touch

James Conner 2018: 5.10 per touch

Lev Bell 2017: 5.3 rec per game

James Conner 2018: 5 rec per game

People ignored Bell’s regression on the ground last year because he’s a very good receiver but now people are equally ignoring Conner matching Bell’s production from last year. Conner has the 15th fastest run on the year at 21.03 MPH a speed never achieved by Bell last year. I believe there needs to be a realignment of where you think Bell is at this point in his career and you should be nervous if some similar team to Arizona with a bad line and a Mike McCoy OC get ahold of him. He will not meet league averages. I know that’s an unpopular opinion but that’s how I see it. 
You’re comparing an entire season for Bell to 3 games for Conner.  The sample size for Conner is too small.

James Conner game 1(2018): 5.33 yards per touch

James Conner game 2(2018): 5.00 yards per touch

James Conner game 3(2018): 4.75 yards per touch

As the sample size increases, the average decreases.  Maybe that trend will reverse itself & Conner’s points per touch will increase, or maybe the trend will continue & his points/touch average will continue to drop.  It’s foolish to try to draw any meaningful conclusion with such a small sample.

 
You’re comparing an entire season for Bell to 3 games for Conner.  The sample size for Conner is too small.

James Conner game 1(2018): 5.33 yards per touch

James Conner game 2(2018): 5.00 yards per touch

James Conner game 3(2018): 4.75 yards per touch

As the sample size increases, the average decreases.  Maybe that trend will reverse itself & Conner’s points per touch will increase, or maybe the trend will continue & his points/touch average will continue to drop.  It’s foolish to try to draw any meaningful conclusion with such a small sample.
His 3rd game was played behind an offensive line missing 2 starters, but regardless, it's way too early to know exactly what to expect from Conner.  Those of us who've watched him for a long time, back to his Pitt days, know what kind of pure talent he has though.  While he's not as purely talented as Bell (especially in the passing game) he's no slouch and more than good enough to keep the Steelers' offense clicking.  Him and Bell together would've been one helluva 1-2 punch.

It'd be foolish for anyone to try and justify how the Steelers offense is as good or better with Conner.  That's crazy talk because it's not.  It's a much easier case to make that the Steelers don't miss Bell a whole lot though... some, but not a ton because of the level of talent they have everywhere else.  They'll score a lot of points whether Bell comes back or not.... and I think it's 50/50 at best on if he plays another down for the Steelers.

 
His 3rd game was played behind an offensive line missing 2 starters, but regardless, it's way too early to know exactly what to expect from Conner.  Those of us who've watched him for a long time, back to his Pitt days, know what kind of pure talent he has though.  While he's not as purely talented as Bell (especially in the passing game) he's no slouch and more than good enough to keep the Steelers' offense clicking.  Him and Bell together would've been one helluva 1-2 punch.

It'd be foolish for anyone to try and justify how the Steelers offense is as good or better with Conner.  That's crazy talk because it's not.  It's a much easier case to make that the Steelers don't miss Bell a whole lot though... some, but not a ton because of the level of talent they have everywhere else.  They'll score a lot of points whether Bell comes back or not.... and I think it's 50/50 at best on if he plays another down for the Steelers.
It has been as good, it is not foolish. The points tell the tale. If you want to argue it’s not as good, I ask you to prove it.

 
You’re comparing an entire season for Bell to 3 games for Conner.  The sample size for Conner is too small.

James Conner game 1(2018): 5.33 yards per touch

James Conner game 2(2018): 5.00 yards per touch

James Conner game 3(2018): 4.75 yards per touch

As the sample size increases, the average decreases.  Maybe that trend will reverse itself & Conner’s points per touch will increase, or maybe the trend will continue & his points/touch average will continue to drop.  It’s foolish to try to draw any meaningful conclusion with such a small sample.
No it is not, that is almost 20% of the season. When should we draw conclusions then? When it is convenient for you to compare with Bell?

 
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It has been as good, it is not foolish. The points tell the tale. If you want to argue it’s not as good, I ask you to prove it.
Like I said, Conner is still good enough to make the Steelers' offense plenty explosive.  But if you WATCH him and compare him to Bell and you do more than the lazy thing and look at a box score, you'll see they're used very differently and Bell has a versatility that opens things up more.  He can line up outside and run routes and he's far smoother with how he both runs and catches.  Conner is just fine at being a safety valve in the pass game, and he'll catch passes doing that simply because defenses have to pay so much attention to the receivers it often can leave him with a free release.  But Bell is different in that he can be a much bigger part of the design of pass plays and would always be more of a focus of the defense.

As good as the Steelers offense is right now, I (and I'd bet most Steelers fans) will tell you it would be at least somewhat better with Bell.  It won't be all that noticeable because the Steelers will still score plenty of points.

 
Like I said, Conner is still good enough to make the Steelers' offense plenty explosive.  But if you WATCH him and compare him to Bell and you do more than the lazy thing and look at a box score, you'll see they're used very differently and Bell has a versatility that opens things up more.  He can line up outside and run routes and he's far smoother with how he both runs and catches.  Conner is just fine at being a safety valve in the pass game, and he'll catch passes doing that simply because defenses have to pay so much attention to the receivers it often can leave him with a free release.  But Bell is different in that he can be a much bigger part of the design of pass plays and would always be more of a focus of the defense.

As good as the Steelers offense is right now, I (and I'd bet most Steelers fans) will tell you it would be at least somewhat better with Bell.  It won't be all that noticeable because the Steelers will still score plenty of points.
That’s not objective and not factual. I would call that lazy in all caps but you see it how you want. I don’t operate with my gut or my eyes. The stats say Conner has been on par with Bell. If Bell is a stud, so has Conner been. If Bell isn’t a stud, neither has Conner been. Yes, that can change but through three games that is the most factual statement that can be made.

 
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That’s objective and not factual. I would call that lazy in all caps but you see it how you want. I don’t operate with my gut or my eyes. The stats say Conner has been on par with Bell. If Bell is a stud, so has Conner been. If Bell isn’t a stud, neither has Conner been. Yes, that can change but through three games that is the most factual statement that can be made.
I think you mean "subjective" but fair enough.. How they're used, how they line up, and how defenses account for Bell and Conner are not subjective, but it takes looking at something other than a box score to see that.  Anyone who watches the Steelers every week, every year will tell you that.   

For fantasy purposes, overall for 3 weeks yes, Conner has been a stud and his situation very well may keep him as one.  But he's not as talented as Bell, and the Steelers offense isn't as good with Conner as it would be with Bell - not that it's not still good with Conner. It is. Sometimes, it takes looking beyond stats to be able to judge something, but yes, anyone who looks at only stats from the first three games will see it that way.

I actually kind of worried a little about Conner in the Bucs game, because he was mostly a non-factor.  He had 14 carries for only 44 yards before busting off a 17 yarder to help run out the clock.  44 of his 61 yards came on only 2 runs... and his other 14 carries went for 17 yards.  Yards are yards, but that's not what you'd typically expect from a runner like him and I'm hoping that had more to do with the offensive line being banged up.

 
James Conner has one more letter in his name, but Le'Veon Bell has an extra capital letter. So I'd say they're about even

 
Bojang0301 said:
That’s not objective and not factual. I would call that lazy in all caps but you see it how you want. I don’t operate with my gut or my eyes. The stats say Conner has been on par with Bell. If Bell is a stud, so has Conner been. If Bell isn’t a stud, neither has Conner been. Yes, that can change but through three games that is the most factual statement that can be made.
Which stats are you looking at? His 8 runs for 17 yards in week 2, his 9 runs for 14 yards going into the final drive of week 3, his 5 first downs per game vs 7 for Bell in 2017, his non-usage on 3rd/4th and short vs Bell converting 14 FDs out of 18 plays when his number was called in that same scenario last year or maybe it’s his 11/17 (1.6 YPA) on 2nd down to Bell’s 126/562 (4.5 YPA) or his 12 runs for 17 yards (1.4 YPA) with 2 first downs when yards to go is 1-9 vs Bell’s 119/519 (4.4 YPA) with 57 first downs in the same scenario. Yes you’re right the stats are very very compelling.

 
Which stats are you looking at? His 8 runs for 17 yards in week 2, his 9 runs for 14 yards going into the final drive of week 3, his 5 first downs per game vs 7 for Bell in 2017, his non-usage on 3rd/4th and short vs Bell converting 14 FDs out of 18 plays when his number was called in that same scenario last year or maybe it’s his 11/17 (1.6 YPA) on 2nd down to Bell’s 126/562 (4.5 YPA) or his 12 runs for 17 yards (1.4 YPA) with 2 first downs when yards to go is 1-9 vs Bell’s 119/519 (4.4 YPA) with 57 first downs in the same scenario. Yes you’re right the stats are very very compelling.
Points per game... all that matters friend. Highly replaceable. Maybe that has more to do with all RB’s being closer to league average then we think because a large part of their production comes from OLine play. You’ve actually laid out some nice metrics. Too bad you’re a miserable ### hole in your presentation of them.

 
Conner is a very effective runner but he doesn’t bring the same wide versatility that Bell has.  That versatility allows PIT to create mismatches any time Bell is on the field, whereas some substitution has to be made to a few of the mismatches without him - which tips the O’s hand a little.

I answered 80% - which means despite my respect for what Bell adds that I believe he seriously overplayed his hand and got called.

 
Bayhawks said:
Maybe we start with when he’s shown that he can be as good as Bell for more than 1 game?


You can only use what you have.  Is your position that no one should be allowed to have opinions on comparing players until a certain data universe has been created?  At what amount of data would you permit people to express opinions in comparing players, Your Majesty?

 
sports_fan said:
James Conner has one more letter in his name, but Le'Veon Bell has an extra capital letter. So I'd say they're about even
Sorry, but you are WAY off here.  You didn’t correctly account for PPL (points per letter).

Conner has a Scrabble value of 22, though most of that comes from his one big J at the start.  Take that out and he averages a mere 1.4 across the rest of his name.

Bell on the other hand, checks in at only 15 points, despite the longer name.  His per letter average is actually no better than Conner’s is without his signature big letter.  Bell is a plodder, in Scrabble terms.

Of course, neither can hold a candle to the greatest living RB Kyle Juszczyk (53, though in standard scoring one of his Z’s and a K are blanks, dropping him to a still HoF worthy 38).

 
You can only use what you have.  Is your position that no one should be allowed to have opinions on comparing players until a certain data universe has been created?  At what amount of data would you permit people to express opinions in comparing players, Your Majesty?
Saying “I like what I’ve seen out of this Conners kid, I think he has the chance to be special;” is different than “Conner had 1 great game & 2 mediocre games-I think he is comparable to a 2-time All-Pro, universally recognized top-3 RB.”

If the former was what is being represented in this thread, I’d be 100% on board, but it’s the latter, and that’s way premature, IMO.  

 
Points per game... all that matters friend. Highly replaceable. Maybe that has more to do with all RB’s being closer to league average then we think because a large part of their production comes from OLine play. You’ve actually laid out some nice metrics. Too bad you’re a miserable ### hole in your presentation of them.
You argue stats then change it to fantasy points per game. Got it.  Somebody not being “excellent” here. Maybe you need stop and take a deep breath. 

 
You argue stats then change it to fantasy points per game. Got it.  Somebody not being “excellent” here. Maybe you need stop and take a deep breath. 
I’m sorry, is being sarcastic being excellent? Don’t worry I won’t throw anymore punches but maybe you should approach things differently on your initial post. I certainly didn’t attack you first.

 
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I finally had a chance to compile some number on PIT with or without Bell. Mind you this is not a Bell vs. Conner comparison, it's a Bell vs. whomever is filling in for Bell comparison.

Across his career, looking at only YFS and total TD, Bell has played in 66 total games (regular and post season). In those game he has averaged
128.95 YFS and 0.636 TD per game. In standard fantasy scoring, that would project out to 260 fantasy points in a 16 game season (however, Bell doesn't always play 16 games).
The Steelers have gone 44-22 (.667) when Bell has played.

RB FILL IN FOR BELL has played in 24 games. In those games, the lead back in those games has averaged:
95.92 YFS and 0.875 TD per game. In standard fantasy scoring, that would project out to 235 fantasy points in a 16 game season.

The Steelers have gone 13-10-1 (.563) when Bell did not play.

As a point of comparison, Bell scored 260 points last season (and ranked as the RB2). 235 fantasy points would have ranked 4th.

I don't really have a dog in this fight. Personally, I think the Steelers are a better team with Bell playing. However, when you factor in the salary cost for Bell, it may not be in the best interest of the Steelers to retain Bell.

To answer the question raised in the thread, looking at fantasy production (which admittedly is different than NFL value), Bell would have been worth about 10% more than whomever replaced him over the years.

 
If they win 56% of their games, they may miss the playoffs while winning a points per dollar trophy.

 
If they win 56% of their games, they may miss the playoffs while winning a points per dollar trophy.
Well, if you narrow it down from when they started playing DeAngelo Williams or later, then their winning percentage goes up to 13-6-1 (.675).
The production goes up as well . . . 107.8 YFS, 1.05 TD/gm, 273.3 fantasy points on a season (which would be slightly BETTER than Bell).

 
You can only use what you have.  Is your position that no one should be allowed to have opinions on comparing players until a certain data universe has been created?  At what amount of data would you permit people to express opinions in comparing players, Your Majesty?
Now that we have 3 average or below average games from Conner (to go with his ONE great game), are we allowed to have the opinion that a RB who has shown sustained excellence for 5 years and was an All-Pro as recently as last year is a better RB, Your Majesty?

 
Now that we have 3 average or below average games from Conner (to go with his ONE great game), are we allowed to have the opinion that a RB who has shown sustained excellence for 5 years and was an All-Pro as recently as last year is a better RB, Your Majesty?


Unlike you, I haven’t attempted to restrain or control others’ opinions, so I’m not quite sure why you’re assigning this to me.

.

 
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Not even close. I voted 60% but would like to change to 40%.  

The coaching staff is not going to like what they see on film.  No vision.  

 
Unlike you, I haven’t attempted to restrain or control others’ opinions, so I’m not quite sure why you’re assigning this to me.

.
I haven't attempted to restrain or control anyone's opinion, YOUR MAJESTY.  Just because my opinion is different, doesn't mean I'm trying to control them, YOUR MAJESTY.  Perhaps if you hadn't made that false assumption, YOUR MAJESTY, I wouldn't have assigned this response to you, YOUR MAJESTY.

 
I haven't attempted to restrain or control anyone's opinion, YOUR MAJESTY.  Just because my opinion is different, doesn't mean I'm trying to control them, YOUR MAJESTY.  Perhaps if you hadn't made that false assumption, YOUR MAJESTY, I wouldn't have assigned this response to you, YOUR MAJESTY.


Oh my.  Caps.  Do I need to find a safe space?

 
James Conner now has as many 20 yd runs as Bell did on 321 carries last year. Enjoy your overrated trash dynasty asset you failed to sell high. Bell bag holders this season:  :cry:

 
Just looking at this kid play when they actually plan to get him the ball he looks good. I think of Bell stays with the Steelers this year it'll be more of a time share than people on either side of this debate will want.

 

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