Lineup Dominator Updates Halted (1 Viewer)

[padraigm]

From David Dodds:

Note: The Top250 forward, forward projections and the Lineup Dominator inputs are halted going forward as we feel it's much more productive putting the time into the very best set of weekly projections we can have...David

A good reason but I am still bummed.

Pat

 

[Sarnoff]

They do this every year for the fantasy playoffs.

 

[Das Boot]

I thought LD ran off the projections?

And LD is useful for seeing your entire roster's projections side by side for comparison.

I don't get why LD updates are suspended.

 

[Sarnoff]

I thought LD ran off the projections? And LD is useful for seeing your entire roster's projections side by side for comparison.I don't get why LD updates are suspended.

For whatever reason that I still don't comprehend, updating the projections on the website does not mean LD can pull them in. As it is now, LD requires a separate database to be constructed. Since there will be no projections this week of wks 16 and 17, there won't be info for those to enter into LD. LD would only be "accurate" (as far as reflecting Dodds' projections) for wk 15 only. Yeah, it'd be very nice of them to put up wk 15 for LD so you can see who you have, what they're projected to do, who your opponent has, and who the top waiver picks are for the week, but they never do. You have to use custom cheatsheets and do it all by hand for all the players.

 

[Das Boot]

I thought LD ran off the projections? And LD is useful for seeing your entire roster's projections side by side for comparison.I don't get why LD updates are suspended.

For whatever reason that I still don't comprehend, updating the projections on the website does not mean LD can pull them in. As it is now, LD requires a separate database to be constructed. Since there will be no projections this week of wks 16 and 17, there won't be info for those to enter into LD. LD would only be "accurate" (as far as reflecting Dodds' projections) for wk 15 only. Yeah, it'd be very nice of them to put up wk 15 for LD so you can see who you have, what they're projected to do, who your opponent has, and who the top waiver picks are for the week, but they never do. You have to use custom cheatsheets and do it all by hand for all the players.

Thanks for the explanation... the separate database surprises me, I guess that's an opportunity for next year.

 

[mambomambo]

This is ridiculous.....add this bs to the end of Tuesday projections and my money is finding a new FF site next yr.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I thought LD ran off the projections?

Actually, I usually run off of bourbon

 

[iix]

Damn, this sucks. We use the LD Weekly Points module for power rankings each week. Bummer.

 

[Ariakis]

Wow so the one tool that sets this site apart from the others gets halted for the fantasy playoffs rather than figuring out how to import one database into another?

Cmon FBG's. The ability to look ahead even one week is valuable all the way to the end. It also allows us to apply projections to the scoring system .... of both your players AND your opponents. This is by far one of the worst decisions FBG's makes.

 

[Sarnoff]

Wow so the one tool that sets this site apart from the others gets halted for the fantasy playoffs rather than figuring out how to import one database into another?

Cmon FBG's. The ability to look ahead even one week is valuable all the way to the end. It also allows us to apply projections to the scoring system .... of both your players AND your opponents. This is by far one of the worst decisions FBG's makes.

It's got nothing to do with importing a database.LD uses two sets of data, "this week's" data and "forward" data. They are in one big file that LD downloads. "This week's" is made when Dodds does the game projections for the week. "Forward" is done when Dodds does the Top 250 forward projections, figuring out who will score what in the weeks to come.

When you import projections in week 6, you're getting week 6 and the top 250 forward for 6-17.

"Forward" is discontinued in week 15 on. Dodds isn't doing them anymore, just like every other year. The only thing LD can import now would be, once they're done, "this week's" projections and the "forward" for weeks 14-17, generated last week. "Forward" won't be updated again this year. So the future-predicting aspects of LD are useless.... you'd have stuff like Bruce Gradkowski as QB13 going forward, or Kevin Smith projections for week 16, etc.

That said, the current-week aspects of LD are often very useful, as a time-saving element over manually going through the week's projections. But LD can't work without the forward too. Sure, they could produce a dummy forward file with all zeros and just use this weeks projections, but, they don't. You just have to go to the subscribers section and pull a custom cheatsheet and figure it out on your own.

The thing that sucks about the database update for LD is that while Dodds may, once in a blue moon, finish projections in maybe week 3 on a Tuesday night/early Wednesday morning, and post them on the website, LD can't read them. You have to wait for Bruce to wake up and compile them for LD to download. So projections are "live" on one part of the site but useless to LD until someone does the next step. It'd be really, really smart of them to figure out how to put the projections into a database that LD can import as changes occur, but after years of it being suggested they've never done it.

 

[Ariakis]

It takes SOS into account when looking ahead too ... it's not just a basic SOS. Right behind getting out SOMETHING for weekly projections on Tuesday this may be my second biggest gripe with FBG's.

 

[Pickle Rody]

They do this every year for the fantasy playoffs.

I believe this statement is incorrect. I have used LD for many years and I seem to remember the updates still coming through for the playoff weeks, 15 & 16 at least, maybe not 17.David & Joe,So, I use the Dominator products/tools all year long, and then when I need it to function for my various playoffs, it's worth zilch? If you are taking the time to bring us "the very best set of weekly projections", why can't they be made available for the Lineup Dominator??? Why have weeks 15, 16 & 17 as options on the Lineup Dominator Weekly Lineup tab if you aren't going to provide those numbers?? The tool itself is geared to be used for the entire season and now you are basically making it useless for the last 3 weeks if you aren't going to provide new sets of weekly projections each of those weeks.I don't see the logic in "dumbing-down" a product (Dominator Series) that most subscribers have stated is the sole reason they subscribe.I use these tools for every one of my leagues. I have secured the top seed(s) in 4/8 of them and I can honestly say that I did it with the help of Lineup Dominator and the rest of the Dominator Series. I appreciate the effort to supply us with "the very best projections" going forward, but I already have my leagues set up in the Lineup Dominator and I have absolutely no extra time to create those league profiles in MyFBG nor do I have the time to convert standard FBG scoring projections to the varying types of scoring systems my leagues use. There is no option to pull/link those sets of league criteria from my LD file database into MyFBG either.I have used your product to get this far, and now you decide to bail on the tool that is most important to me? This sux.Rody

 

[BradtheAg]

unbelievable. i was already pissed off about the LD data being late week after week. now they just stop doing it completely? lineup dominator is why i pay for this site.

 

[bleachercreacher]

They do this every year for the fantasy playoffs.

I believe this statement is incorrect. I have used LD for many years and I seem to remember the updates still coming through for the playoff weeks, 15 & 16 at least, maybe not 17.David & Joe,So, I use the Dominator products/tools all year long, and then when I need it to function for my various playoffs, it's worth zilch? If you are taking the time to bring us "the very best set of weekly projections", why can't they be made available for the Lineup Dominator??? Why have weeks 15, 16 & 17 as options on the Lineup Dominator Weekly Lineup tab if you aren't going to provide those numbers?? The tool itself is geared to be used for the entire season and now you are basically making it useless for the last 3 weeks if you aren't going to provide new sets of weekly projections each of those weeks.I don't see the logic in "dumbing-down" a product (Dominator Series) that most subscribers have stated is the sole reason they subscribe.I use these tools for every one of my leagues. I have secured the top seed(s) in 4/8 of them and I can honestly say that I did it with the help of Lineup Dominator and the rest of the Dominator Series. I appreciate the effort to supply us with "the very best projections" going forward, but I already have my leagues set up in the Lineup Dominator and I have absolutely no extra time to create those league profiles in MyFBG nor do I have the time to convert standard FBG scoring projections to the varying types of scoring systems my leagues use. There is no option to pull/link those sets of league criteria from my LD file database into MyFBG either.I have used your product to get this far, and now you decide to bail on the tool that is most important to me? This sux.Rody

I honestly feel like I deserve a refund. I know it's passed the deadline to get a refund, but pulling tools that are promised for a whole season is insane. Especially since the reasoning is to "provide the bet possible weekly projections". Should you not already provide the best possible weekly projections? If your staff is not big enough to put all of your tools out within the deadline either hire more staff or close shop. Personally, I am going to email David right now and ask for a refund.

 

[Pickle Rody]

David's notification on the Weekly Content page is a little misleading. I just received this note from him via PM, in response to a PM I sent to him:

The weekly projections will go into the Dominator so you can see all of your leagues there. We will zero the forward numbers though. We don't do the forward projections because of the methodologies we use during the regular season for forward numbers (predict total numbers and then use Clayton Gray's SOS to smooth out the data) really collapse when the forward numbers only project for week 16 and 17 (and a lot of guys will be rested in week 17).

So, I was mistaken about the updates being provided. FBG will provide updated projections for LD this week. The thing they will not provide are forward numbers WITH the update.I hope this helps clear up any confusion that is associated with this thread. A simple PM to Joe and David got me the answer I was looking for.

 

[Bob N. Weaver]

It would be nice to get a confirmation on this for all of us from David in this thread. If the LD update is coming then when is it coming and why is it not listed on the subscriber's weekly content page? It is usually listed several times because it is updated several times throughout the week. I see Bruce's name nowhere.

 

[Joe Bryant]

David's notification on the Weekly Content page is a little misleading. I just received this note from him via PM, in response to a PM I sent to him:

The weekly projections will go into the Dominator so you can see all of your leagues there. We will zero the forward numbers though. We don't do the forward projections because of the methodologies we use during the regular season for forward numbers (predict total numbers and then use Clayton Gray's SOS to smooth out the data) really collapse when the forward numbers only project for week 16 and 17 (and a lot of guys will be rested in week 17).

So, I was mistaken about the updates being provided. FBG will provide updated projections for LD this week. The thing they will not provide are forward numbers WITH the update.I hope this helps clear up any confusion that is associated with this thread. A simple PM to Joe and David got me the answer I was looking for.

I've asked David to post here when he's done with projections so you guys can know what to expect and when. Again, this is how we've done the LD for the past three seasons. With the forward projections collapsing, the thing starts to break down. But I understand the desire for it and David will post something here soon with where we are on it. Thanks.J

 

[Pickle Rody]

David's notification on the Weekly Content page is a little misleading. I just received this note from him via PM, in response to a PM I sent to him:

The weekly projections will go into the Dominator so you can see all of your leagues there. We will zero the forward numbers though. We don't do the forward projections because of the methodologies we use during the regular season for forward numbers (predict total numbers and then use Clayton Gray's SOS to smooth out the data) really collapse when the forward numbers only project for week 16 and 17 (and a lot of guys will be rested in week 17).

So, I was mistaken about the updates being provided. FBG will provide updated projections for LD this week. The thing they will not provide are forward numbers WITH the update.I hope this helps clear up any confusion that is associated with this thread. A simple PM to Joe and David got me the answer I was looking for.

I've asked David to post here when he's done with projections so you guys can know what to expect and when. Again, this is how we've done the LD for the past three seasons. With the forward projections collapsing, the thing starts to break down. But I understand the desire for it and David will post something here soon with where we are on it. Thanks.J

Now I am confused. If the intent is to provide projections for week 15 to use with LD, but to remove any forward projections (weeks 16 & 17), why not just state that? Why remove the LD Update entirely from the Subscriber Content page? Why not just say that you will provide the projections for WEEK 15 ONLY this week, but not forward numbers? The fact that LD Updates is not being listed on the Subscriber Content page is what's driving the concern expressed in this thread. It appears there will be no updates provided. And, David's italicized notification leads one to believe that is exactly the case also.Rody

 

[Joe Bryant]

David's notification on the Weekly Content page is a little misleading. I just received this note from him via PM, in response to a PM I sent to him:

The weekly projections will go into the Dominator so you can see all of your leagues there. We will zero the forward numbers though. We don't do the forward projections because of the methodologies we use during the regular season for forward numbers (predict total numbers and then use Clayton Gray's SOS to smooth out the data) really collapse when the forward numbers only project for week 16 and 17 (and a lot of guys will be rested in week 17).

So, I was mistaken about the updates being provided. FBG will provide updated projections for LD this week. The thing they will not provide are forward numbers WITH the update.I hope this helps clear up any confusion that is associated with this thread. A simple PM to Joe and David got me the answer I was looking for.

I've asked David to post here when he's done with projections so you guys can know what to expect and when. Again, this is how we've done the LD for the past three seasons. With the forward projections collapsing, the thing starts to break down. But I understand the desire for it and David will post something here soon with where we are on it. Thanks.J

Now I am confused. If the intent is to provide projections for week 15 to use with LD, but to remove any forward projections (weeks 16 & 17), why not just state that? Why remove the LD Update entirely from the Subscriber Content page? Why not just say that you will provide the projections for WEEK 15 ONLY this week, but not forward numbers? The fact that LD Updates is not being listed on the Subscriber Content page is what's driving the concern expressed in this thread. It appears there will be no updates provided. And, David's italicized notification leads one to believe that is exactly the case also.Rody

Let David explain exactly what he can do when he can post here. I just wanted to post so you guys knew I was seeing the thread. The LD is David and Bruce's baby though and I don't want to speak for them.J

 

[David Dodds]

Here's the scoop.

The Lineup Dominator requires multiple input files. The weekly stuff for offense, PK and team defense from me, the IDP weekly material from John Norton and a corresponding projections forward file from Bob Henry and Cecil Taylor that would look at the next week until the end of the season.

Bob and Cecil put a lot of work into these forward numbers, but they build their numbers as a whole piece. So if we are in week 7, Bob is projecting what he thinks Brandon Marshall will do from week 8 until week 17. We are not so much concerned with actual matchups week by week because the software manipulates the numbers to weekly data by using Clayton Gray's SOS.

This process however starts getting very sketchy as we get to just a few games left. For some people, their seasons end in week 16. Others end in week 17. Additionally NFL teams that have already clinched may start resting guys and teams clearly out of the playoffs could start playing scrubs. And a lot of these decisions are game results dependent. If Indy wins, they will do this type of thing. In the Lineup Dominator we have a way to de-emphasive (create weighting factors) to the individual weeks, but that's mostly used for known injuries, rookies, etc. For the majority of the season, the expectation is healthy people are going to play according to the depth charts at the position. The second we would have to go player by player on the forward stuff, we literally couldn't get anything else done.

We tried loading up Lineup Dominator data in week 15 a few years ago and it was a mess. Lots of complaining because the data looked bad. Why so low on this player when all they play is Detroit left. But the reality is that player played Detroit and Baltimore and the person using the software only needs the data through week 16 type of stuff.

I have loaded up the weekly info into the lineup dominator. You can view everything for Week 15 right now. Everything in week 16 and 17's is zeroes though.

 

[Pickle Rody]

I have loaded up the weekly info into the lineup dominator. You can view everything for Week 15 right now. Everything in week 16 and 17's is zeroes though.

How soon until Bloom's second opinion projections get loaded in?

 

[patsfangr]

Thanks to David for the detailed explanation. I understand now that the complexities of the formulas used to create the future weeks data in LD make it impossible to produce it in the same way that it is done for prior weeks.

What this suggests to me is that a far more intensive effort, with inputs from all sources, should be given to the "Players In The News" feature. Why not have the FBG team place special emphasis on information they get from their "team sources" (whatever they may be) regarding those late season moves (plans to rest/limit top players; plans to "look at" backups and rookies in preparing plans for next season; "showcasing" players for off-season trade plans; etc.). At least some verbal input on all such moves (or as many as FBG can dig up) would give us some clue about future weeks. I'd even suggest that the projections guys could use this info to slip in some specific point projections for players who will be significantly affected by such changes, either up or down.

This is the most important part of the season for FF team owners. It seems to me that FBGs should commit to MAXIMUM EFFORT, such as the expanded workload I suggested above, to support us. What do think, David and Bruce? Is something like I suggested a possibility for next season; as it's clearly too late to do it for this season ... or is it? Can you work with Clayton and the other guys to add some projections "meat" to the "Players In The News" during this week?

 

[Ariakis]

FBG's I would really like to see (beyond getting out early projections on Tuesday) is perhaps starting in week 15 to try to find time to do actual week 16-17 projections later in the week. That wouldn't require forward software but would give us a look-ahead to give us even more of an edge on our competition. If I pick up a player I may use in week 16 now he is virtually free. If I wait for week 16 waivers I likely lose out to someone with a higher priority.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

It sure is a shame that the tools that David, etc. use don't generate and tweak a full season's worth of projections in real time. And that they aren't all fully integrated so a task is only done once.

 

[Ariakis]

New week same question. The week 16 schedule does not say anything about a Lineup Dominator release. It'd be nice to see this week's projections applied to my players in all of my leagues rather than having to manually calculate. Why does the most popular tool and the reason most of us subscribe stop at the most important time of the year?