Jerry Curl
Footballguy
Let the discussion begin. A poll for who you think wins is up.
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Lions @ Packers - Division Title and First Round Bye up for grabs. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jerry Curl
- Start date
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
Packers 20-17 on last second FG.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Go pack go! Lions fans need to be humbled.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Packers are a better team. Six straight years in playoffs including the 2010 SB champ, three straight division title, best QB in the game, great WRs, stud RB, terrific K. They're eight point favorites for good reason.
Plus Lambeau, where they never lose. OK, OK, three losses and a tie last year, five of the last eight playoff games, but come on man - it's Detroit! The last time they won in Wisconsin Bush 41 was a mortal lock to be re-elected. The last time the Lions won a division title Nirvana had just released In Utero.
Green Bay and shouldn't be close amirite?
Unless it is. Sooner or later a good Lions team will say "#### history why not now why not us?"
Bruce Leroy
Footballguy
Been hearing the Lions are the worst 11-4 team in NFL history. I guess we'll find out on Sunday.
If the Packer team that plays vs. Tampa shows up, flip a coin....
However....
If the Packer team that played New England shows up......
If the Packer team that plays vs. Tampa shows up, flip a coin....
However....
If the Packer team that played New England shows up......
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Perennially one of the lowest graded centers. It's no accident he has zero Pro Bowls in 14 years.
Travis Swanson should be fine blocking wise, he's started four games at G this year and graded well. Questionable how the exchanges will go; he played in 15 games but hasn't snapped a live ball since August. Big challenge.
This is easily the most resilient Lions team of my lifetime. The O line has been a point of weakness all year with lots of injuries. The kicking game and special teams in general have been well below average. Yet they don't get down on themselves. They don't panic. They don't have to play perfect football to win games.
From a long view, this is one of the best Lions seasons of all time regardless of outcome. That tells you all you need to know about their modest history. But a win Sunday would be a defining stamp.
Stafford has beaten the Packers the last two games at Ford Field. He hasn't had a good year in 2014, but ultimately, his legacy will be defined by how he did against winning teams. Just like the Michigan coach has to beat Ohio State, you're not the greatest QB in franchise history until you win in Lambeau and win in the playoffs.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
That's a good pick for sure. In the Pro Football Reference SRS that year they were 13th in the league at 1.0, yet had the third best record (12-4). Glorious 6 game run - "Thumbs Up" After Mike Utley was paralyzed, they won their last 5 and thumped an 11 win Cowboys team that won the WC in Chicago. 38-6 on January 5, 1992 - third greatest day of my life*
The following week they lost to the Redskins, 41-10. They're 0-10 in the Super Bowl era playoffs outside that one win over Steve Beuerlein.
*just in case my kids ever read this
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Packers will smoke `em.
ryno1980
Footballguy
Dont really care if he's any good or not. A guy like that should be banned from the league. No place for that stuff. Makes it somehow possible to root for the Packers and a first-round exit for the Lions.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Pretty much unfathomable - trying to injure a fellow competitor? Didn't we all learn about fair play when we were like 8 or younger?
Just sayin', no one in Detroit likes this guy.
#1 - he's an embarrassment, has been for years, terrible that a veteran sets such a poor example, and #2 - he's not really good.
Which is not a reason to excuse his actions, but we all know if it's a Conrad Dobler or Bill Laimbeer Claude LeMeiux, you can at least say "yeah, he's a bad ###, glad he's on our side." No Lions fan has ever said (or ever will say) that about Raiola. We just want him to retire and go away.
Futz
Footballguy
The Packers are vulnerable against good defenses. 0-3 to the Lions, Seattle, and Buffalo. I think this Lions team has some things going for it that previous teams heading into GB have not had like a very good defense, strong coaching, they finish games and are a relatively healthy squad for this time of the year. They also have the intangible of motive with the long losing streak in GB and the need to prove they belong.
I think this is a game that will either be won or lost by the way Stafford plays. Unfortunately, I think he has an identity problem. He doesn't want to be a Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfer game manager but he doesn't have the skill set and playmaking ability of the gun slinging Favre/Elway types. I think he's somewhere in between (Jeff George?) and therefore:
GB 24-17
I think this is a game that will either be won or lost by the way Stafford plays. Unfortunately, I think he has an identity problem. He doesn't want to be a Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfer game manager but he doesn't have the skill set and playmaking ability of the gun slinging Favre/Elway types. I think he's somewhere in between (Jeff George?) and therefore:
GB 24-17
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Last year all those games that were lost at Lambeau were when Rodgers was out with a broken collar bone, oh yea the Lions got their revenge last year, on Matt Flynn.
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
Packers and I don't think it will be close.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The last time the Lions won in Lambeau, the commercial Internet did not exist.
The core backbone of NSFNET in 1991 was 16 T1 nodes.
The core backbone of NSFNET in 1991 was 16 T1 nodes.
Packers
PPG - 41 home vs 21 road
TO - +10 home vs +5 road
4 Punts since the bye week at Home:
vs Atl, NE, PHI, CHI - 1 Punt in each game in the 3Q (no punts in first half) (certain games Packers attempted more punts after Rodgers had left the game)
Rodgers @ Home:
2014 - 7-0 / 23 TD / 1 INT / 124.3 Passer Rating
Regular season since loss to Favre in 2009: 35-3 record
I see the Packers being held to a below average game:
38-17 Packers Win
PPG - 41 home vs 21 road
TO - +10 home vs +5 road
4 Punts since the bye week at Home:
vs Atl, NE, PHI, CHI - 1 Punt in each game in the 3Q (no punts in first half) (certain games Packers attempted more punts after Rodgers had left the game)
Rodgers @ Home:
2014 - 7-0 / 23 TD / 1 INT / 124.3 Passer Rating
Regular season since loss to Favre in 2009: 35-3 record
I see the Packers being held to a below average game:
38-17 Packers Win
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yesmsudaisy26 said:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
People may still be sleeping on GB's defense. They've gone from giving up 153 YPG on the ground to 90 YPG since moving Clay Matthews to ILB. Throw in a close-to-the-vest game of great importance and a wind-chill in the teens in the late afternoon, and this could be a field-position battle. I'll go with 20-10, Pack.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Worst 11-4 team ever? Come on now. #2 D in the NFL and good array of offensive weapons.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
"They've gone from giving up 153 YPG on the ground to 90 YPG since moving Clay Matthews to ILB."
That was a decent article from 10 days ago - the move def strengthened their defense. ILB has been devalued over the years & the pendulum is swinging back. Suh and Mosely get tremendous pressure but the linchpin is DeAndre Levy (pro bowl level last 2 years regardless of the farcical voting).
Also...90 yards per game?
Um, yeah, one team topped 90 all year [v. DET]. Five teams couldn't top 50.
See ya' Sunday, & Merry Christmas all.
That was a decent article from 10 days ago - the move def strengthened their defense. ILB has been devalued over the years & the pendulum is swinging back. Suh and Mosely get tremendous pressure but the linchpin is DeAndre Levy (pro bowl level last 2 years regardless of the farcical voting).
Also...90 yards per game?
Um, yeah, one team topped 90 all year [v. DET]. Five teams couldn't top 50.
See ya' Sunday, & Merry Christmas all.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
^^^
What does all of that have to do with Green Bay's defense? Everyone already knows Detroit has a good defense.
What does all of that have to do with Green Bay's defense? Everyone already knows Detroit has a good defense.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Congratulations on having a better run defense than the Packers, I guess. Let's see how far that gets you.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Yeah, it's a shame we don't lead the league in quarterback hits or have 20 interceptions or have the best safety combo in the division. Unfortunately all we can do is stop the run.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Anyway, enjoy the holiday RN.
Respect is earned. The Lions haven't won anything yet or beaten a good team on the road.
We'll see on Sunday if this year is any different.
Respect is earned. The Lions haven't won anything yet or beaten a good team on the road.
We'll see on Sunday if this year is any different.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I'm not sure what we're even arguing about. The first sentence of my OP was "People may be sleeping on GB's defense." And they may be. 
They've been very good since the bye. Nobody is sleeping on Detroit's defense. I didn't think we were comparing them. Just pointing out that some people may look at the Packers and think offensive fireworks, but they are getting some help lately.
They've been very good since the bye. Nobody is sleeping on Detroit's defense. I didn't think we were comparing them. Just pointing out that some people may look at the Packers and think offensive fireworks, but they are getting some help lately.
Meatwad Reloaded
Footballguy
Everyone needs to google 'Detroit Lions' ' Deadspin' and 'tailgate'. The result tells you everything you need to know about Sunday.
jurb26
Footballguy
I hope this game doesn't turn out to be a #### show... Packers winning easy. I think Det has a solid chance simply because of their defense. Stafford has to play better, though. He's struggled it seems outdoors this year. I'm not sure if there's a stat to back that up but just from some of the games I've seen.
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Jerry Curl
Footballguy
If any group of fans need to be humbled from the success their team has had over the years it Lions fans.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I actually like Detroit ats or money line. 8+ points is a lot of points for a team that already lost to the Lions once and isn't playing their best ball right now. I think green bay deserves to be favored, but if you're playing for entertainment purposes I think the Lions are the smart pick because they should win or keep it within seven more than 50% of the time.
The General
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Overall, pretty straight analysis by jurb26 and I think largely on target.
I'm sure his outdoor splits are lower. The offense struggled mightily in the three outdoor losses - Week 2 in Carolina (kicking disaster - was actually a close game until late), the debacle in the desert, and getting boat raced in Foxboro. Nothing but FGs in the latter two.
OTOH, Detroit went 3-0 with Megatron out (and did pretty OK in the weeks he was a decoy). They don't have that luxury this week IMO. If they're beating Green Bay in Lambeau, it'll be because "good players make good plays, great players make great plays." As much as I would love to see contributions from Theo or Golden or Ebron or Tahir or Jones, it's probably gonna be decided by how well the big three play. $53M in cap space tied up in 9, 81 and 90. I doubt the defense lets them down, but the offense often struggles early (Joique is a closer, much better in the 3rd and 4th).
Stafford, in my view, is a great talent and a tough competitor. But there is something lacking that makes him inconsistent. Some people blame mechanics - wrong footed throws, sidearm slings, etc - but hell, he's made some incredible plays over the years with his bad mechanics. His decision making isn't epic fail like a Cutler or Sanchez, but if he wants to get to the next level, he has to minimize those mistakes.
Stafford doesn't have to be perfect for them to win, but he does have to play better than he has shown the last two weeks and much of the season. It's reasonable to wonder if the moment will be too big for him. I think he rises up to meet the challenge, but I understand where the doubters come from.
Suh is gonna bring it, his motor never shuts down. I have complete confidence he and Mosely shut down the lanes. The Packers will not be able to run. They thumped Green Bay Week 3 because they received tremendous pressure from Ansah & Co without having to blitz. Ziggy is a handful and Levy is as solid as anyone in the league. Iggy and Quinn make big plays. Every. Week.
Intangibles - well, yeah, Lambeau mystique, Lions woeful history, etc. #### all that. I believe this team is different. But the rational default stance, based on history, should be no way these guys beat the Packers on the frozen tundra.
Jim Caldwell is an easy target for cynics. The many faces of Caldwell is an awesome meme. Like about 27-29 NFL head coaches, he botches clock management at times. But there is more to his style of leadership that readily meets the eye. He treats players like men. They have a leadership council and he consults with them about practice/travel options. He laid down the rules in meeting #1 - "If you're late, it's the max allowed by the NFLPA, and it is not up for discussion. Be professional." The first time a veteran was late, he dropped a check on Caldwell's desk before he hit the field.
People mock him all the time. "Deer in the headlights. Players walk over him." I didn't like the hire. I've come to appreciate his reserved demeanor and calmness under pressure. You watch his locker room speeches and listen to the players - this man is respected by his players. He respects them. They're calm when they're up against it because he never panics. I'm not saying he's sliced bread, but he's a helluva lot better than he gets credit for. Some guys are great coordinators but suck at the executive level. Caldwell has two outstanding coordinators.
The Lions have five comeback wins this year. Curiously, this is viewed as a sign they are soft, weak, and the least impressive of the seven 11-12 win teams (or Arizona since they lost Palmer). But if you saw it live or watched on rewind or study the game logs, you'll see they had to make plays to come out on top.
- Saints - down 23-10 with 4 minutes left, Tate with a 73 yard catch n run, interception by Quinn with 3:40ish left, Stafford drove them down for the winner, defense held up.
- Falcons - down 21-0 at halftime. 2nd Half - 3 punts and INT for Atlanta, 5 scoring drives for Detroit. 3 of those were sustained drives of 15-76, 13-69, 11-63. Caught a huge break when a penalty & incompletion gave them enough time - but they then had to go out and win the damn thing by starting their last drive on their own 7.
- Dolphins - Riddick caught the game winner late, but they flat out won this game. Outgained Miami 351-228, held them to 19-50 on the ground, won the turnover battle, drove 11-74 in the last 3 minutes.
- Vikings & Bears - not gonna rationalize too much here, these games should not have been close. But again, with the season on the line and down 0-14, this resilient team stayed calm and got it done. The next week in Chicago they damn near gave it away: muffed punt in last minute gifted the Bears a TD, the second TD came after they stopped them but had a roughing the punter. In both games, the defense closed it out once they did get the lead (MIN did have a 68 yard FGA at game end),
I've been a Detroit Lions fan since Mel Farr and Lem Barney both won the Rookie of the Year in 1967. I know all the past failures should lead a reasonable man to conclude it's time for another crazy script. Dempsey's 63 yarder. Losing a playoff game when you hold your opponent to 5 points. Having a player die on the field and a HC die in training camp. Losing not one but two QBs in preseason. Being the first team to lose an OT on the kickoff return. Having a coach ask "I don't know what you have to do to get fired around here" Beating a division opponent in the final week only to lose the following week at home. Being humiliated in the Conference Championship. Watching the greatest runner in the history walk away because he was tired of losing and believed they would never be winners. Watching your ####### coach elect to kick when you won the OT toss. Drafting a WR in the first round four times in five years before you got it right. 0 and 16. Just ####### shake hands and walk off you stupid doosh. Losing the last 8 games of a season, and topping that the following year by losing 6 out of 7 - WITH BOTH YOUR ####### RIVAL QBS OUT WITH INJURY WHILE YOU ARE LEADING THE DIVISION - and do it by losing a 4th quarter lead each and every time.
I get this inept franchise is fun to kick around, they never get anything right. Or not very often. ####ers have probably taken five years off my life.
We'll see late Sunday afternoon if anything has changed this year. I think this team is special and i think this defense can shut down the Packers and I think this quarterback and this coach will find a way to bring it home. It's seldom pretty, they have to work for it, they often times hurt themselves. But they don't give up.
Merry Christmas to the Shark Pool, and to my GBs from across the Lake, hope it's a hard fought contest. You're got a good team. They're beatable, but my home state team has a lot of demons. Hope its a injury free and competitive game.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah, don't Google this. Do not do it.
Sinrman
Footballguy
As a Lions fan, I'm not as worried about the Packers offense. They have looked rather anemic for the last few weeks. Granted they are much better at home, but Detroit's defense will
be ready to play and try to repeat their performance earlier in the season. What I'm worried about is the Lions OFFENSE. It has been truly offensive. :X
Granted our O-line has not been very good, but Stafford hasn't even looked mediocre for awhile now. There shouldn't be very many excuses, given the weapons we have.
I hate to say it, but we lose a tight one. Pack 23, Lions 17
Will certainly be rooting hard for the Lions though. Being the #2 seed would be absolutely HUGE.
be ready to play and try to repeat their performance earlier in the season. What I'm worried about is the Lions OFFENSE. It has been truly offensive. :X
Granted our O-line has not been very good, but Stafford hasn't even looked mediocre for awhile now. There shouldn't be very many excuses, given the weapons we have.
I hate to say it, but we lose a tight one. Pack 23, Lions 17
Will certainly be rooting hard for the Lions though. Being the #2 seed would be absolutely HUGE.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Capers should dial up double A-gap blitzes all day long with Raiola out.
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Packers 31-20, with a pick-6 late to seal the deal.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Nice breakdown of the game here.
Not only is a rookie making his first start at C in place of Raiola, but the RT is also a rookie and the LG can't pass block. Matthews must be drooling.
And Joique showed up on the injury report today with "an achilles issue."
Not only is a rookie making his first start at C in place of Raiola, but the RT is also a rookie and the LG can't pass block. Matthews must be drooling.
And Joique showed up on the injury report today with "an achilles issue."
Johnny Blood
Footballguy
Dozens of spectators at the last Lions victory in Wisconsin were wearing working Hypercolor shirts.
People were downloading porn at 2400 baud. Not from the internet.
People were downloading porn at 2400 baud. Not from the internet.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Every Lions fan I know throws up his hands and says "That's it.... NO MORE!!!"
Until next season begins.
mr roboto
Footballguy
That makes them slightly more rational than Raiders fans.
