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Literal Fake News (1 Viewer)

(HULK)

(Smash)

Look, I think the mainstream media has bias, but generally they do their best to adhere to the ethical principals of journalism. They're far from perfect, but I get riled when people refer to it as "fake news". It's not.

However, there is such a thing as fake news. And I guess the Democrats caught on to what several groups (including the Republicans, the Kochs, etc) have been doing for years and joined in. They've literally be creating fake newspaper sites in swing states with the intent of pumping out heavily slanted news.

Two things we should discuss:
  1. Do you think this is a problem?
  2. What should we be doing about it?

I suspect most people will think like I do, that it is a problem. For a representative democracy to function well, it requires an informed populace and accountability for its elected leaders. Without those, things run amok, governing becomes about getting and maintaining power, and really very few are looking out of the interests of the people. That is not a good situation for our citizens or for the future.

As for what to do about it... well, we need ideas. The first amendment is a thing and should continue to be a thing. I just wish there was an easy way to sort this propaganda from actual news. Maybe some sort of ethical reporting rating attached to all "news". Thing is, the fake news sites would all cry about it and complain that it was being weaponized against them, yada yada... I'm not sure something like that is possible at this point. The 24 hour news cycle, the internet, and social media have all rapidly changed how we get and are served information. Many actors are out there trying to look like the news our grandparents had, but their actual intent is to push an agenda without you knowing what they're feeding you. I believe that is pushing our country further and further into decline. I'd love to hear ideas as to what on earth can be done to turn this tide.
 

BladeRunner

Footballguy

Look, I think the mainstream media has bias, but generally they do their best to adhere to the ethical principals of journalism. They're far from perfect, but I get riled when people refer to it as "fake news". It's not.

However, there is such a thing as fake news. And I guess the Democrats caught on to what several groups (including the Republicans, the Kochs, etc) have been doing for years and joined in. They've literally be creating fake newspaper sites in swing states with the intent of pumping out heavily slanted news.

Two things we should discuss:
  1. Do you think this is a problem?
  2. What should we be doing about it?

I suspect most people will think like I do, that it is a problem. For a representative democracy to function well, it requires an informed populace and accountability for its elected leaders. Without those, things run amok, governing becomes about getting and maintaining power, and really very few are looking out of the interests of the people. That is not a good situation for our citizens or for the future.

As for what to do about it... well, we need ideas. The first amendment is a thing and should continue to be a thing. I just wish there was an easy way to sort this propaganda from actual news. Maybe some sort of ethical reporting rating attached to all "news". Thing is, the fake news sites would all cry about it and complain that it was being weaponized against them, yada yada... I'm not sure something like that is possible at this point. The 24 hour news cycle, the internet, and social media have all rapidly changed how we get and are served information. Many actors are out there trying to look like the news our grandparents had, but their actual intent is to push an agenda without you knowing what they're feeding you. I believe that is pushing our country further and further into decline. I'd love to hear ideas as to what on earth can be done to turn this tide.

So just to be clear, Democrats were never doing this previously until now? They never engaged in misinformation or outright lies? This is only a new development for them but Republicans have been doing this forever? They invented it? Want to know what your answer is before I go into more detail.

I'm trying to understand if you're adding biased "story enhancers" on your own or if this is actually a fact.
 

(HULK)

(Smash)

Look, I think the mainstream media has bias, but generally they do their best to adhere to the ethical principals of journalism. They're far from perfect, but I get riled when people refer to it as "fake news". It's not.

However, there is such a thing as fake news. And I guess the Democrats caught on to what several groups (including the Republicans, the Kochs, etc) have been doing for years and joined in. They've literally be creating fake newspaper sites in swing states with the intent of pumping out heavily slanted news.

Two things we should discuss:
  1. Do you think this is a problem?
  2. What should we be doing about it?

I suspect most people will think like I do, that it is a problem. For a representative democracy to function well, it requires an informed populace and accountability for its elected leaders. Without those, things run amok, governing becomes about getting and maintaining power, and really very few are looking out of the interests of the people. That is not a good situation for our citizens or for the future.

As for what to do about it... well, we need ideas. The first amendment is a thing and should continue to be a thing. I just wish there was an easy way to sort this propaganda from actual news. Maybe some sort of ethical reporting rating attached to all "news". Thing is, the fake news sites would all cry about it and complain that it was being weaponized against them, yada yada... I'm not sure something like that is possible at this point. The 24 hour news cycle, the internet, and social media have all rapidly changed how we get and are served information. Many actors are out there trying to look like the news our grandparents had, but their actual intent is to push an agenda without you knowing what they're feeding you. I believe that is pushing our country further and further into decline. I'd love to hear ideas as to what on earth can be done to turn this tide.

So just to be clear, Democrats were never doing this previously until now? They never engaged in misinformation or outright lies? This is only a new development for them but Republicans have been doing this forever? They invented it? Want to know what your answer is before I go into more detail?

I'm trying to understand if you're adding biased "story enhancers" on your own or if this is actually a fact.
I don't know if they were or were not doing it before honestly. I'm quite familiar with what the Kochs do, they even make up fake non-profits to funnel dark money around, it's quite insane. Also familiar with Metric Media doing this for right-wing issues and Sinclair doing w/ TV for right-wing issues. Anyways, I'm not aware of major leftist efforts to do the same existing prior to this, but my lack of awareness does not mean it never happened before.
 
They never engaged in misinformation or outright lies?
I could not tell from the Axios article if the "friendly" articles were misinformation or false factually. The one story highlighted seems to be dishonest in that it was seemingly plagiarized, but otherwise it seemed like a handful of site-specific writers putting positive spin on various things. Are they lies? Or just rose colored*? I couldn't tell.

*Okay, maybe not "'roses are red' colored".
 

BladeRunner

Footballguy

Look, I think the mainstream media has bias, but generally they do their best to adhere to the ethical principals of journalism. They're far from perfect, but I get riled when people refer to it as "fake news". It's not.

However, there is such a thing as fake news. And I guess the Democrats caught on to what several groups (including the Republicans, the Kochs, etc) have been doing for years and joined in. They've literally be creating fake newspaper sites in swing states with the intent of pumping out heavily slanted news.

Two things we should discuss:
  1. Do you think this is a problem?
  2. What should we be doing about it?

I suspect most people will think like I do, that it is a problem. For a representative democracy to function well, it requires an informed populace and accountability for its elected leaders. Without those, things run amok, governing becomes about getting and maintaining power, and really very few are looking out of the interests of the people. That is not a good situation for our citizens or for the future.

As for what to do about it... well, we need ideas. The first amendment is a thing and should continue to be a thing. I just wish there was an easy way to sort this propaganda from actual news. Maybe some sort of ethical reporting rating attached to all "news". Thing is, the fake news sites would all cry about it and complain that it was being weaponized against them, yada yada... I'm not sure something like that is possible at this point. The 24 hour news cycle, the internet, and social media have all rapidly changed how we get and are served information. Many actors are out there trying to look like the news our grandparents had, but their actual intent is to push an agenda without you knowing what they're feeding you. I believe that is pushing our country further and further into decline. I'd love to hear ideas as to what on earth can be done to turn this tide.

So just to be clear, Democrats were never doing this previously until now? They never engaged in misinformation or outright lies? This is only a new development for them but Republicans have been doing this forever? They invented it? Want to know what your answer is before I go into more detail?

I'm trying to understand if you're adding biased "story enhancers" on your own or if this is actually a fact.
I don't know if they were or were not doing it before honestly. I'm quite familiar with what the Kochs do, they even make up fake non-profits to funnel dark money around, it's quite insane. Also familiar with Metric Media doing this for right-wing issues and Sinclair doing w/ TV for right-wing issues. Anyways, I'm not aware of major leftist efforts to do the same existing prior to this, but my lack of awareness does not mean it never happened before.

I'm guessing you don't know of any left-wing misinformation or lies because all you focus on is right-wing issues and lies. ;)
 

(HULK)

(Smash)

Look, I think the mainstream media has bias, but generally they do their best to adhere to the ethical principals of journalism. They're far from perfect, but I get riled when people refer to it as "fake news". It's not.

However, there is such a thing as fake news. And I guess the Democrats caught on to what several groups (including the Republicans, the Kochs, etc) have been doing for years and joined in. They've literally be creating fake newspaper sites in swing states with the intent of pumping out heavily slanted news.

Two things we should discuss:
  1. Do you think this is a problem?
  2. What should we be doing about it?

I suspect most people will think like I do, that it is a problem. For a representative democracy to function well, it requires an informed populace and accountability for its elected leaders. Without those, things run amok, governing becomes about getting and maintaining power, and really very few are looking out of the interests of the people. That is not a good situation for our citizens or for the future.

As for what to do about it... well, we need ideas. The first amendment is a thing and should continue to be a thing. I just wish there was an easy way to sort this propaganda from actual news. Maybe some sort of ethical reporting rating attached to all "news". Thing is, the fake news sites would all cry about it and complain that it was being weaponized against them, yada yada... I'm not sure something like that is possible at this point. The 24 hour news cycle, the internet, and social media have all rapidly changed how we get and are served information. Many actors are out there trying to look like the news our grandparents had, but their actual intent is to push an agenda without you knowing what they're feeding you. I believe that is pushing our country further and further into decline. I'd love to hear ideas as to what on earth can be done to turn this tide.

So just to be clear, Democrats were never doing this previously until now? They never engaged in misinformation or outright lies? This is only a new development for them but Republicans have been doing this forever? They invented it? Want to know what your answer is before I go into more detail?

I'm trying to understand if you're adding biased "story enhancers" on your own or if this is actually a fact.
I don't know if they were or were not doing it before honestly. I'm quite familiar with what the Kochs do, they even make up fake non-profits to funnel dark money around, it's quite insane. Also familiar with Metric Media doing this for right-wing issues and Sinclair doing w/ TV for right-wing issues. Anyways, I'm not aware of major leftist efforts to do the same existing prior to this, but my lack of awareness does not mean it never happened before.

I'm guessing you don't know of any left-wing misinformation or lies because all you focus on is right-wing issues and lies. ;)
For discussions here I tend to focus on stuff that gets linked here. It's not a focus by choice.
 

(HULK)

(Smash)
So, no one has any ideas about what we can do about this? Sit on the sidelines and watch the ideological divides continue to widen until our country rips itself apart? I'm looking for alternatives to that IMO
 

FairWarning

Footballguy
So, no one has any ideas about what we can do about this? Sit on the sidelines and watch the ideological divides continue to widen until our country rips itself apart? I'm looking for alternatives to that IMO
It’s been a major point of contention for me for a long time from both sides. I would really
like some ideas of ways to stop it. I’m not sure there are any.
 

Rich Conway

Footballguy
So, no one has any ideas about what we can do about this? Sit on the sidelines and watch the ideological divides continue to widen until our country rips itself apart? I'm looking for alternatives to that IMO
We already know what the most effective solution is. Ranked choice voting and proportional representation will solve the problem of race to the bottom extremes.

The issue is that our elected representatives have a vested interest in not solving the problem.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy

Look, I think the mainstream media has bias, but generally they do their best to adhere to the ethical principals of journalism. They're far from perfect, but I get riled when people refer to it as "fake news". It's not.

However, there is such a thing as fake news. And I guess the Democrats caught on to what several groups (including the Republicans, the Kochs, etc) have been doing for years and joined in. They've literally be creating fake newspaper sites in swing states with the intent of pumping out heavily slanted news.

Two things we should discuss:
  1. Do you think this is a problem?
  2. What should we be doing about it?

I suspect most people will think like I do, that it is a problem. For a representative democracy to function well, it requires an informed populace and accountability for its elected leaders. Without those, things run amok, governing becomes about getting and maintaining power, and really very few are looking out of the interests of the people. That is not a good situation for our citizens or for the future.

As for what to do about it... well, we need ideas. The first amendment is a thing and should continue to be a thing. I just wish there was an easy way to sort this propaganda from actual news. Maybe some sort of ethical reporting rating attached to all "news". Thing is, the fake news sites would all cry about it and complain that it was being weaponized against them, yada yada... I'm not sure something like that is possible at this point. The 24 hour news cycle, the internet, and social media have all rapidly changed how we get and are served information. Many actors are out there trying to look like the news our grandparents had, but their actual intent is to push an agenda without you knowing what they're feeding you. I believe that is pushing our country further and further into decline. I'd love to hear ideas as to what on earth can be done to turn this tide.

So just to be clear, Democrats were never doing this previously until now? They never engaged in misinformation or outright lies? This is only a new development for them but Republicans have been doing this forever? They invented it? Want to know what your answer is before I go into more detail?

I'm trying to understand if you're adding biased "story enhancers" on your own or if this is actually a fact.
I don't know if they were or were not doing it before honestly. I'm quite familiar with what the Kochs do, they even make up fake non-profits to funnel dark money around, it's quite insane. Also familiar with Metric Media doing this for right-wing issues and Sinclair doing w/ TV for right-wing issues. Anyways, I'm not aware of major leftist efforts to do the same existing prior to this, but my lack of awareness does not mean it never happened before.

I'm guessing you don't know of any left-wing misinformation or lies because all you focus on is right-wing issues and lies. ;)
There is certainly plenty of misinformation on both sides, but this specific phenomenon Hulk is describing -- where political operatives launch reputable sounding news organizations for the purpose of laundering partisan propaganda -- was pioneered in the past few years by the right, and is apparently now being copied by the left. I think it's horrible all around. I'm fine with openly partisan news organizations like Crooked Media or Dan Bongino or whatever. But the subterfuge does long-term damage to the credibility of objective news.
 
So, no one has any ideas about what we can do about this? Sit on the sidelines and watch the ideological divides continue to widen until our country rips itself apart? I'm looking for alternatives to that IMO
I believe that in the free market of ideas that bad ideas eventually lose out. And that alternative or fake news are the impurities that are eventually burned off in the crucible. One of those bad ideas that I think that will burn off, eventually found to offer no utility is that our present problems are a result of the extremes. They are not. Our solutions come from the extremes; our problems come from the change averse middle.
 

FairWarning

Footballguy
So, no one has any ideas about what we can do about this? Sit on the sidelines and watch the ideological divides continue to widen until our country rips itself apart? I'm looking for alternatives to that IMO
I believe that in the free market of ideas that bad ideas eventually lose out. And that alternative or fake news are the impurities that are eventually burned off in the crucible. One of those bad ideas that I think that will burn off, eventually found to offer no utility is that our present problems are a result of the extremes. They are not. Our solutions come from the extremes; our problems come from the change averse middle.
I would like to believe it, but look how long rags like the national enquirer survived at the checkout counter.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
So, no one has any ideas about what we can do about this? Sit on the sidelines and watch the ideological divides continue to widen until our country rips itself apart? I'm looking for alternatives to that IMO
I have a radical idea: large numbers of people stop engaging in this crap online, stop clicking on the crap, and vote 3rd party. On top of that if you have time, donate resources to groups that do those things.
 

BladeRunner

Footballguy

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
So, no one has any ideas about what we can do about this? Sit on the sidelines and watch the ideological divides continue to widen until our country rips itself apart? I'm looking for alternatives to that IMO
I believe that in the free market of ideas that bad ideas eventually lose out. And that alternative or fake news are the impurities that are eventually burned off in the crucible. One of those bad ideas that I think that will burn off, eventually found to offer no utility is that our present problems are a result of the extremes. They are not. Our solutions come from the extremes; our problems come from the change averse middle.
I would like to believe it, but look how long rags like the national enquirer survived at the checkout counter.
What's interesting is that starting in the Trump Era, the Enquirer has evolved from a celebrity tabloid into a Q-adjacent fake news outlet laundering smears about Hillary's health and such (all while running catch-and-kill operations to suppress Trump sex scandals).
 

rockaction

Footballguy
Just popping into register I don't care what side it comes from, it's unethical and problematic for a functioning democracy to have to suffer at the hands of the ignorant or misinformed. We do depend on a populace that is somewhat abreast of the news, and if not that, then at least not parroting radical agendas based on "alternative facts" that stray far from the center and require a lack of compromise in order to achieve whatever agenda that the purveyors of this sort of stuff want to achieve.

It's completely problematic and we saw it with COVID as well. Everybody had their version of the science, and they were sticking to it. Of course, it was usually their preconceived notion of what should be done that science got shoehorned into and it wound up a tragedy. Couple misinformation with bad, unrestrained government actors, and you've got a major problem.
 

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