Literal twist on snake draft (1 Viewer)

[rawdog]

In any kind of snake draft, I think most would agree that drafting near the top is a huge advantage. The advantage a top 3 pick gets this year, for instance, by landing LT, Jackson or LJ isn't close to equaled out by picking low in the second round. Their top 2 guys will, on paper, be more valuable than the top 2 of a team picking toward the end of the first round and even the middle.

And then, the killer, that team once again gets to pick near the top of the 3rd round. Once the 4th comes around to supposedly equal that out, you're too far into the draft for it to matter a smuch as it should.

Bottom line: picking near the top in the 1st & 3rd is way more advantageous than picking near the top in the 2nd & 4th.

Is it the craziest thought in the world, then, to reverse snake round 3 and 4?

So, in a 10-team, it goes likes this:

#1, 20, 30, 31

#2, 19, 29, 32

#3, 18, 28, 33

#4, 17, 27, 34

#5, 16, 26, 35

#6, 15, 25, 36

#7, 14, 24, 37

#8, 13, 23, 38

#9, 12, 22, 39

#10, 11, 21, 40

Then you could either do the next 4 rounds exactly like this or just give 1st the #40/41 and proceed as usual.

 

[Chase Stuart]

In any kind of snake draft, I think most would agree that drafting near the top is a huge advantage. The advantage a top 3 pick gets this year, for instance, by landing LT, Jackson or LJ isn't close to equaled out by picking low in the second round. Their top 2 guys will, on paper, be more valuable than the top 2 of a team picking toward the end of the first round and even the middle.

And then, the killer, that team once again gets to pick near the top of the 3rd round. Once the 4th comes around to supposedly equal that out, you're too far into the draft for it to matter a smuch as it should.

Bottom line: picking near the top in the 1st & 3rd is way more advantageous than picking near the top in the 2nd & 4th.

Is it the craziest thought in the world, then, to reverse snake round 3 and 4?

So, in a 10-team, it goes likes this:

#1, 20, 30, 31

#2, 19, 29, 32

#3, 18, 28, 33

#4, 17, 27, 34

#5, 16, 26, 35

#6, 15, 25, 36

#7, 14, 24, 37

#8, 13, 23, 38

#9, 12, 22, 39

#10, 11, 21, 40

Then you could either do the next 4 rounds exactly like this or just give 1st the #40/41 and proceed as usual.

It's a few years old now, but I remember Mike Zangrilli (Unlucky from the boards) wrote an article discussing how draft order within a round is essentially irrelevant after round 1. So picking 13th isn't really much (or any) better than picking 24th. Certainly, this applies a fortiori to picking 25th instead of 36th, especially when you get it reversed in the fourth round.That all being said, just because there's no real effect doesn't mean it's a bad idea. There's no downside in that it's not going to overcompensate the person picking 12th. But it pails in comparison with respect to fairness to running an auction.

 

[AB in DC]

There are other ways to offset the disadvantages of drafting late. In my main league, initial waivers are set in reverse draft order -- in other words, the team at the 12-spot is disadvantaged during the draft but gets first choice of waiver picks the first week.

Since we use small rosters, there's usually a breakout player available after week one who came out of nowhere (e.g. Colston, Furrey). Of course, this would be less of an advantage in leagues with large rosters where someone will take a flyer on these sort of players in the late rounds.

 

[rawdog]

Unfortunately, my league is dead-set against auction or drauction or anything that involves bidding.

 

[Kleck]

In any kind of snake draft, I think most would agree that drafting near the top is a huge advantage.

Advantage? I thought so after writing this.http://footballguys.com/shickserpentine.htm

Huge advantage? That's highly debatable.

 

[Meatwad]

3rd Round reversal.

 

[ookook]

In any kind of snake draft, I think most would agree that drafting near the top is a huge advantage.

Advantage? I thought so after writing this.http://footballguys.com/shickserpentine.htm

Huge advantage? That's highly debatable.

Hey Shick!, I think 7 yo 8 fantasy points per game is pretty subtantial. Last year in the re-draft I am commish for that was the amount seperating the 2nd and 8th place teams. Huge? Perhaps not. But over the years there has been a pretty strong relationship between drafting in the first few slots and where a team finishes. Last year, top 4 (of 14) that went to playoffs, one drafted 1st, one 2nd, and 1 fifth (other was 12th).

 

[pizzatyme]

3rd Round reversal.

This is the fairest way IMO to even out the draft in a serpentine. First two rounds are like normal, but the third starts at the bottom again and the draft reverses from there. Ex- 1-14, 14-1, 14-1, 1-14, 14-1, and so on...this is the style the NFFC is using this year and I can't wait!

 

[JoeSteeler]

Unfortunately, my league is dead-set against auction or drauction or anything that involves bidding.

What is drauction?

 

[brbarnhart]

I joined a league that used these rules last year. I am not sure exactly how he came up with it, but it worked out very well in year one of our dynasty. It was one of the most balanced leagues I have ever been in. He is the set-up from the guy who came up with it.

Last year I posted about an alternative draft order, and most people thought it was a pretty good idea. The premise is that normal snake drafts favor the teams that pick near the top, and that the teams toward the bottom are fighting an uphill battle - they can win, but their mistakes are magnified.

Using the FB Guys and KFFL draft pick value calculator, it appears that the team picking 1.1 in a snake draft has a 7.29% advantage over the team picking 12th. The goal of this new draft order is to take the edge that one draft position has over another to as close to zero as possible.

Here is the draft order for the first 4 rounds:

1.01 2.12 4.02 4.12

1.02 2.11 3.12 4.10

1.03 2.10 3.11 4.08

1.04 2.09 3.06 4.11

1.05 2.08 3.07 4.06

1.06 2.06 3.09 4.03

1.07 2.07 3.04 4.04

1.08 2.05 3.02 4.09

1.09 2.04 3.03 4.05

1.10 2.03 3.08 3.10

1.11 2.02 3.01 4.07

1.12 2.01 3.05 4.01

No draft position has an edge of more than 0.55% over another according to the draft value calcs.

 

[BGP]

In any kind of snake draft, I think most would agree that drafting near the top is a huge advantage. The advantage a top 3 pick gets this year, for instance, by landing LT, Jackson or LJ isn't close to equaled out by picking low in the second round. Their top 2 guys will, on paper, be more valuable than the top 2 of a team picking toward the end of the first round and even the middle.

And then, the killer, that team once again gets to pick near the top of the 3rd round. Once the 4th comes around to supposedly equal that out, you're too far into the draft for it to matter a smuch as it should.

Bottom line: picking near the top in the 1st & 3rd is way more advantageous than picking near the top in the 2nd & 4th.

Is it the craziest thought in the world, then, to reverse snake round 3 and 4?

So, in a 10-team, it goes likes this:

#1, 20, 30, 31

#2, 19, 29, 32

#3, 18, 28, 33

#4, 17, 27, 34

#5, 16, 26, 35

#6, 15, 25, 36

#7, 14, 24, 37

#8, 13, 23, 38

#9, 12, 22, 39

#10, 11, 21, 40

Then you could either do the next 4 rounds exactly like this or just give 1st the #40/41 and proceed as usual.

It's a few years old now, but I remember Mike Zangrilli (Unlucky from the boards) wrote an article discussing how draft order within a round is essentially irrelevant after round 1. So picking 13th isn't really much (or any) better than picking 24th. Certainly, this applies a fortiori to picking 25th instead of 36th, especially when you get it reversed in the fourth round.That all being said, just because there's no real effect doesn't mean it's a bad idea. There's no downside in that it's not going to overcompensate the person picking 12th. But it pails in comparison with respect to fairness to running an auction.

Yah what I learned from unlucky was that the single most important thing to do in a redraft is to trade up to get two first round picks. It is such a tremendous advantage - a skilled drafter can easily make up for the loss of picks in later rounds.

 

[Block]

Wouldn't a "literal twist on a snake draft" involve drafting in the middle of a pit of snakes?

Just sayin'.

 

[benbadman]

I stole this idea from another office league, but it seems like a great way to even out the monotony of the traditional snaking redraft-- have the draft order snake, but only every 2 rounds--teams draw for their pair of draft picks in every set of rounds at a get-together before the draft.

So you could have 1.01 and 2.10, but then 3.08 and 4.03, etc.

Basically we had a draft order party back at the Super Bowl. We got 2 decks of playing cards. Each suit was a different set of rounds. For example, if round 1/2 is hearts, you draw the 2 of hearts thats 1.02 and 2.09; ten of clubs is 3.10 & 4.01, etc etc.

Here's what I ended up with (1st round was based off 2006 finish);

so i have draft picks: 12,29,33,48,51,70,79,82,94 etc etc

One of the big pro's of doing it like this is if you're at the top or bottom of the order, u dont always have to wait 18-19 picks between your back to back picks. Some parts of the draft you are in the middle of the round, sometimes u might have those bookend picks. Trading of draft picks is also encouraged by the variable order.

The downside is that unless you use MFL or another premium service, you probably can't enter this custom draft order as easily. Yahoo! Plus FF couldn't handle this draft order type AND our 2 keepers.

 

[BGP]

How about this idea.

Double up on individual players in the draft. For example, there would be TWO Tomlinsons. TWO Peyton Mannings. Then cut the length of your draft in half. So if your draft is 18 rounds, make it 9 rounds. And then have TWO drafts, reversing the selection order between the first and second draft.

So an example:

1.01 BGP

1.02 Dodds

1.03 Bryant

1.04 Colin Dowling

1.05 Jason Wood

1.06 Cecil Lammey

1.07 David Yudkin

1.08 Jeff Pasquino

1.09 komments

1.10 Sigmund Bloom

1.11 Kevin Ashcraft

1.12 Doug Drinen

2.01 Doug Drinen

2.02 Kevin Ashcraft

etc...

And do 9 rounds like that. Now you move to the second draft, this where the copy of all the players are. Reverse the order for these 9 rounds:

1.01 Doug Drinen

1.02 Kevin Ashcraft

1.03 Sigmund Bloom

1.04 komments

1.05 Jeff Pasquino

1.05 David Yudkin

1.07 Cecil Lammey

1.08 Jason Wood

1.09 Colin Dowling

1.10 Bryant

1.11 Dodds

1.12 BGP

2.01 BGP

2.02 Dodds

etc...

The combined 18 rounds stocks everyone's roster for the year.

 

[Futeki]

In any kind of snake draft, I think most would agree that drafting near the top is a huge advantage. The advantage a top 3 pick gets this year, for instance, by landing LT, Jackson or LJ isn't close to equaled out by picking low in the second round. Their top 2 guys will, on paper, be more valuable than the top 2 of a team picking toward the end of the first round and even the middle.

And then, the killer, that team once again gets to pick near the top of the 3rd round. Once the 4th comes around to supposedly equal that out, you're too far into the draft for it to matter a smuch as it should.

Bottom line: picking near the top in the 1st & 3rd is way more advantageous than picking near the top in the 2nd & 4th.

Is it the craziest thought in the world, then, to reverse snake round 3 and 4?

So, in a 10-team, it goes likes this:

#1, 20, 30, 31

#2, 19, 29, 32

#3, 18, 28, 33

#4, 17, 27, 34

#5, 16, 26, 35

#6, 15, 25, 36

#7, 14, 24, 37

#8, 13, 23, 38

#9, 12, 22, 39

#10, 11, 21, 40

Then you could either do the next 4 rounds exactly like this or just give 1st the #40/41 and proceed as usual.

It's a few years old now, but I remember Mike Zangrilli (Unlucky from the boards) wrote an article discussing how draft order within a round is essentially irrelevant after round 1. So picking 13th isn't really much (or any) better than picking 24th. Certainly, this applies a fortiori to picking 25th instead of 36th, especially when you get it reversed in the fourth round.That all being said, just because there's no real effect doesn't mean it's a bad idea. There's no downside in that it's not going to overcompensate the person picking 12th. But it pails in comparison with respect to fairness to running an auction.

This is a double snake. I convinced all of my redraft leagues (that don't want auction) to do this last year. It was a WONDERFUL balancer. I don't think it matters much after 4 rounds (not 1!). I think you underestimate the flexibility it offers.With a normal serpentine, the top guys can pick however they want. RB/WR/QB and get three studs. They can still get a fine second RB AND a stud WR (or QB). This just isn't right. Those at the bottom of the draft either go RB/RB (no studs) and get no studs at QB/WR either. If they go RB/WR they are left with slim pickings for RB2.

With the double snake, there is a ripple effect. For example, it allows those at the bottom to take the stud WR to get a leg up in that respect against the top of the draft. Since they draft at the top of the third, they'll still get a solid RB. If it is a RB/RB drafting group all around, then those at the bottom will get first pick of the stud WRs in the third to compensate. Furthermore, the early drafters now must make a choice when it comes back to them in the second. It isn't as easy as getting a solid RB2 AND a stud WR in rounds 2/3. They must now choose with the long wait for the third pick. Go stud WR in the second and a solid RB2 just won't be there in the third; take the RB2 and the stud WRs are all gone.

In each league the playoff teams were spread across the draft slots. In previous years the vast majority had the top few picks. I won't do a regular serpentine draft again - either auction or some form of modified snake.

 

[Meatwad]

In any kind of snake draft, I think most would agree that drafting near the top is a huge advantage. The advantage a top 3 pick gets this year, for instance, by landing LT, Jackson or LJ isn't close to equaled out by picking low in the second round. Their top 2 guys will, on paper, be more valuable than the top 2 of a team picking toward the end of the first round and even the middle.And then, the killer, that team once again gets to pick near the top of the 3rd round. Once the 4th comes around to supposedly equal that out, you're too far into the draft for it to matter a smuch as it should.Bottom line: picking near the top in the 1st & 3rd is way more advantageous than picking near the top in the 2nd & 4th.Is it the craziest thought in the world, then, to reverse snake round 3 and 4?So, in a 10-team, it goes likes this:#1, 20, 30, 31#2, 19, 29, 32#3, 18, 28, 33#4, 17, 27, 34#5, 16, 26, 35#6, 15, 25, 36#7, 14, 24, 37#8, 13, 23, 38#9, 12, 22, 39#10, 11, 21, 40Then you could either do the next 4 rounds exactly like this or just give 1st the #40/41 and proceed as usual.

It's a few years old now, but I remember Mike Zangrilli (Unlucky from the boards) wrote an article discussing how draft order within a round is essentially irrelevant after round 1. So picking 13th isn't really much (or any) better than picking 24th.

Do you really believe that?

 

[BGP]

In any kind of snake draft, I think most would agree that drafting near the top is a huge advantage. The advantage a top 3 pick gets this year, for instance, by landing LT, Jackson or LJ isn't close to equaled out by picking low in the second round. Their top 2 guys will, on paper, be more valuable than the top 2 of a team picking toward the end of the first round and even the middle.And then, the killer, that team once again gets to pick near the top of the 3rd round. Once the 4th comes around to supposedly equal that out, you're too far into the draft for it to matter a smuch as it should.Bottom line: picking near the top in the 1st & 3rd is way more advantageous than picking near the top in the 2nd & 4th.Is it the craziest thought in the world, then, to reverse snake round 3 and 4?So, in a 10-team, it goes likes this:#1, 20, 30, 31#2, 19, 29, 32#3, 18, 28, 33#4, 17, 27, 34#5, 16, 26, 35#6, 15, 25, 36#7, 14, 24, 37#8, 13, 23, 38#9, 12, 22, 39#10, 11, 21, 40Then you could either do the next 4 rounds exactly like this or just give 1st the #40/41 and proceed as usual.

It's a few years old now, but I remember Mike Zangrilli (Unlucky from the boards) wrote an article discussing how draft order within a round is essentially irrelevant after round 1. So picking 13th isn't really much (or any) better than picking 24th.

Do you really believe that?

I observed him doing that and saw the results. In every league, his goal was deal off multiple picks in the 2nd 3rd 4th round, and acquire a second first round pick. Almost every time he came away with a strong team.

 

[Meatwad]

In any kind of snake draft, I think most would agree that drafting near the top is a huge advantage. The advantage a top 3 pick gets this year, for instance, by landing LT, Jackson or LJ isn't close to equaled out by picking low in the second round. Their top 2 guys will, on paper, be more valuable than the top 2 of a team picking toward the end of the first round and even the middle.And then, the killer, that team once again gets to pick near the top of the 3rd round. Once the 4th comes around to supposedly equal that out, you're too far into the draft for it to matter a smuch as it should.Bottom line: picking near the top in the 1st & 3rd is way more advantageous than picking near the top in the 2nd & 4th.Is it the craziest thought in the world, then, to reverse snake round 3 and 4?So, in a 10-team, it goes likes this:#1, 20, 30, 31#2, 19, 29, 32#3, 18, 28, 33#4, 17, 27, 34#5, 16, 26, 35#6, 15, 25, 36#7, 14, 24, 37#8, 13, 23, 38#9, 12, 22, 39#10, 11, 21, 40Then you could either do the next 4 rounds exactly like this or just give 1st the #40/41 and proceed as usual.

It's a few years old now, but I remember Mike Zangrilli (Unlucky from the boards) wrote an article discussing how draft order within a round is essentially irrelevant after round 1. So picking 13th isn't really much (or any) better than picking 24th.

Do you really believe that?

I observed him doing that and saw the results. In every league, his goal was deal off multiple picks in the 2nd 3rd 4th round, and acquire a second first round pick. Almost every time he came away with a strong team.

 

[BGP]

It's a few years old now, but I remember Mike Zangrilli (Unlucky from the boards) wrote an article discussing how draft order within a round is essentially irrelevant after round 1. So picking 13th isn't really much (or any) better than picking 24th.

Do you really believe that?

I observed him doing that and saw the results. In every league, his goal was deal off multiple picks in the 2nd 3rd 4th round, and acquire a second first round pick. Almost every time he came away with a strong team.

I think the guiding principle is that it is harder to find a first-round talent in later rounds than it is to find a 2nd-5th round talent in later rounds. So he would trade up to get two firsts, and then rely on his skill to rummage around and find gems to replace what it cost him. I was in his ALPHA leagues. He went to the playoffs almost in every one of them and won many titles, all because he kept trading up to get two first rounders. It definitely takes skill - but its a strong move.

 

[Meatwad]

It's a few years old now, but I remember Mike Zangrilli (Unlucky from the boards) wrote an article discussing how draft order within a round is essentially irrelevant after round 1. So picking 13th isn't really much (or any) better than picking 24th.

Do you really believe that?

I observed him doing that and saw the results. In every league, his goal was deal off multiple picks in the 2nd 3rd 4th round, and acquire a second first round pick. Almost every time he came away with a strong team.

I think the guiding principle is that it is harder to find a first-round talent in later rounds than it is to find a 2nd-5th round talent in later rounds. So he would trade up to get two firsts, and then rely on his skill to rummage around and find gems to replace what it cost him. I was in his ALPHA leagues. He went to the playoffs almost in every one of them and won many titles, all because he kept trading up to get two first rounders. It definitely takes skill - but its a strong move.

I agree. But I don't understand how that is relevant to my post. 13 and 24 are not equal.

 

[BGP]

It's a few years old now, but I remember Mike Zangrilli (Unlucky from the boards) wrote an article discussing how draft order within a round is essentially irrelevant after round 1. So picking 13th isn't really much (or any) better than picking 24th.

Do you really believe that?

I observed him doing that and saw the results. In every league, his goal was deal off multiple picks in the 2nd 3rd 4th round, and acquire a second first round pick. Almost every time he came away with a strong team.

I think the guiding principle is that it is harder to find a first-round talent in later rounds than it is to find a 2nd-5th round talent in later rounds. So he would trade up to get two firsts, and then rely on his skill to rummage around and find gems to replace what it cost him. I was in his ALPHA leagues. He went to the playoffs almost in every one of them and won many titles, all because he kept trading up to get two first rounders. It definitely takes skill - but its a strong move.

I agree. But I don't understand how that is relevant to my post. 13 and 24 are not equal.

lol nvm i see it now. carry on.

 

[Borat]

Wouldn't a "literal twist on a snake draft" involve drafting in the middle of a pit of snakes?Just sayin'.

Something like that, maybe, but most people literally don't know what the word "literal" means.