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LIV Golf comes to Trump ⛳ (1 Viewer)

 
Mickelson:

Yeah they kill gay people, but we have a chance to leverage the PGA tour. 

Trump has always wanted to be a society type, and they have always looked down on him. He went through it with the NFL, they were basically like, you are no Mara. The PGA, after January 6, had the best possible reason to cut his courses, and I think they are probably relieved to be done with him. 

There should be some great video of him with the Saudis this weekend, making for some fun Lincoln Project commercials down the road.

 
I went to the LIV in Oregon earlier this month and I enjoyed it quite a bit.  I don't feel bad about it either.  I'm not pro-Saudi or blind to human right violations, but I generally feel that the royal WE are selective in our outrage.  9/11 was over 20 years ago and if we as a country we're so ticked off at the Saudis for birthing many of the terrorists that pulled this off, why didn't we go to war with them?  Why did we manufacture a lie to go attack Iraq?  Why did we continue to suckle at the power teat of Saudi oil?  

And don't get me started on the horrible humans that participate in the NFL, NBA or other sports in this nation.  Dan Snyder, DeShaun Watson, Miles Bridges, Mike Vick just to name a few.  

Trump and the LIV tournament were destined for each other.  Like the professional wrestlers who turn heel and create animosity from fans, they thrive on it.   I can tell you first hand the golfers do not care about any of the issues surrounding the rogue tournament.  They got paid.  That's all that matters.  They created more generational wealth for their kids than they ever would have without the LIV.  And they are happy.  I am telling you, I got to watch Dustin Johnson up close and personal and he was smiling, laughing, giving out knuckles, gave a kid a golf ball.  No more pressure.  No staggered start times.  No festooning yourself in sponsor gear.  No cut.  Limited ticket sales (they capped the LIV Oregon at 6,000 which was perfect).  It's not a surprise that bigger names in golf are flocking to it.  

Trump will call this the greatest golf tournament that's ever been played.  He's going to bask in its glow.  And when somebody asks him if he feels bad chumming up with Saudi Sovereign Wealth (you know, the family that gave his SIL a gazillion dollars to run a fledgling private equity firm) he'll smirk and say "You think we're so innocent here"?  It's Trump 101.  The good news, if you're against all this, is that it's not easy to watch if you're not there.  I don't see too many folks using YouTube or Facebook to watch this thing.  

 
Trump is not prejudice.  He'll work with any domestic or foreign terrorist groups to make money.  ;)

If players can make more money, then good for them.  Let the fans decide if this will last or not.  

 
beef said:
Trump is not prejudice.  He'll work with any domestic or foreign terrorist groups to make money.  ;)

If players can make more money, then good for them.  Let the fans decide if this will last or not.  
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To me, it feels a little like the original USFL, which, ironically enough, was off to a decent start before Trump got involved.  He wanted to go head to head with the NFL and forced the USFL to move its games to the fall.  Then, he bailed fast when the going got tough.  But for a season, the USFL wasn't awful.  Players had more fun, more TD celebrations, creative offensive systems.

I don't know what the set up will be like this week, but at Pumpkin Ridge, the big slogan seen around the course was "GOLF - BUT LOUDER".  And I think that's pretty accurate.  There were DJ booths, a concert set up for the evening, lot's of cool interactive fan activities with no long lines to play something like a round of mini-golf for a prize (as an example).  And then, at 1:15 there was a shot-gun start so the whole thing took maybe 5 hours?  

So, will they have enough ticket sales to make money?  I doubt it, but I think it sold out in Oregon all days.  I'll have to check that.  Tickets were $70, which I thought was reasonable.  It could also be that the Pac NW doesn't get a PGA tour event, so people here were starving for good golf and this was really the only opportunity for us get watch the best up close.  I still don't see a pathway to viewership unless they can get on traditional TV but I could be wrong on that.  Streaming in sports is only going to grow, especially with AMZN partnering with the NFL.  

Also, I might be hyped up on this because Paulina Gretzky smiled at me when she drove by me in a cart.  Okay, she might have just been smiling in general and her cart passed me, but it was real to me, damn it.

 
General Malaise said:
To me, it feels a little like the original USFL, which, ironically enough, was off to a decent start before Trump got involved.  He wanted to go head to head with the NFL and forced the USFL to move its games to the fall.  Then, he bailed fast when the going got tough.  But for a season, the USFL wasn't awful.  Players had more fun, more TD celebrations, creative offensive systems.

I don't know what the set up will be like this week, but at Pumpkin Ridge, the big slogan seen around the course was "GOLF - BUT LOUDER".  And I think that's pretty accurate.  There were DJ booths, a concert set up for the evening, lot's of cool interactive fan activities with no long lines to play something like a round of mini-golf for a prize (as an example).  And then, at 1:15 there was a shot-gun start so the whole thing took maybe 5 hours?  

So, will they have enough ticket sales to make money?  I doubt it, but I think it sold out in Oregon all days.  I'll have to check that.  Tickets were $70, which I thought was reasonable.  It could also be that the Pac NW doesn't get a PGA tour event, so people here were starving for good golf and this was really the only opportunity for us get watch the best up close.  I still don't see a pathway to viewership unless they can get on traditional TV but I could be wrong on that.  Streaming in sports is only going to grow, especially with AMZN partnering with the NFL.  

Also, I might be hyped up on this because Paulina Gretzky smiled at me when she drove by me in a cart.  Okay, she might have just been smiling in general and her cart passed me, but it was real to me, damn it.
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https://open.spotify.com/episode/2xQVpdxPqRVOv2DPztHS5F?si=WigjTW2kSsGKFsmv-Krh3A&utm_source=copy-link

Good little listen and interview with the guy who got tossed from the press conference. He makes a good point that the PGA is ripe to be screwed with, and they might have to play nice with LIV. 

In terms of the hypocrisy, I agree with you, and I cannot fault these people for getting that money. I wouldn't turn it down. 

None of those people mentioned, however, including you, Deshaun Watson, Phil Mickelson, etc, are running for president. It's different for a candidate than for a golfer who can just delete Twitter and go live his life. 

 
massraider said:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2xQVpdxPqRVOv2DPztHS5F?si=WigjTW2kSsGKFsmv-Krh3A&utm_source=copy-link

Good little listen and interview with the guy who got tossed from the press conference. He makes a good point that the PGA is ripe to be screwed with, and they might have to play nice with LIV. 

In terms of the hypocrisy, I agree with you, and I cannot fault these people for getting that money. I wouldn't turn it down. 

None of those people mentioned, however, including you, Deshaun Watson, Phil Mickelson, etc, are running for president. It's different for a candidate than for a golfer who can just delete Twitter and go live his life. 
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Right, but I tried to make the point that Trump will lean into this and his base?  They will eat it up.  It's just another feather in Don's cap where he sticks it to the high brow society and comes off looking like the common man.  The voters and loyalists to Trump aren't changing their mind on him because of this.  I recently got back from driving around some of the most rural parts of the PacNW, which is by the by Team Blue territory.  But not countryside - it's still Trump nation with big flags and signs that say "F Biden" and plenty of "Brandons".  Trump is just giving them more red meat with this.

The other problem we've got is that Biden has been pretty bad.  I don't think everything is his fault, but inflation and crime are big sellers and Don knows that.  He's going to attack that hard and a lot of people who jumped off his bandwagon will jump back on.  If he runs, he wins.  And I don't think it's even close.  Nothing and I mean nothing hurts this guy.  Capitol riots, bungling Covid at the start, in bed with the Russians and now in bed with the Saudis.....it just rolls off of him like water on the back of a duck.  

 
General Malaise said:
Right, but I tried to make the point that Trump will lean into this and his base?  They will eat it up.  It's just another feather in Don's cap where he sticks it to the high brow society and comes off looking like the common man.  The voters and loyalists to Trump aren't changing their mind on him because of this.  I recently got back from driving around some of the most rural parts of the PacNW, which is by the by Team Blue territory.  But not countryside - it's still Trump nation with big flags and signs that say "F Biden" and plenty of "Brandons".  Trump is just giving them more red meat with this.

The other problem we've got is that Biden has been pretty bad.  I don't think everything is his fault, but inflation and crime are big sellers and Don knows that.  He's going to attack that hard and a lot of people who jumped off his bandwagon will jump back on.  If he runs, he wins.  And I don't think it's even close.  Nothing and I mean nothing hurts this guy.  Capitol riots, bungling Covid at the start, in bed with the Russians and now in bed with the Saudis.....it just rolls off of him like water on the back of a duck.  
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Yep.  You'd think this should be an easy win for the democrats.  I mean holy heck, worst President ever according to them? And they can't find ANYONE in the ENTIRE democratic party that can beat him?  That's shame

 
supermike80 said:
Yep.  You'd think this should be an easy win for the democrats.  I mean holy heck, worst President ever according to them? And they can't find ANYONE in the ENTIRE democratic party that can beat him?  That's shame
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Yeah best they could do was a doddering old man with a crack head son. 

Oh wait....

 
If these golfers are terrible people for doing business with the Saudi then anyone that has dealings with them should be criticized.  Seems like selective outrage.

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
So interesting that you went and enjoyed it and don't feel bad (and that's great imo) - but still want to vilify Trump and his supporters over it. 
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Oh, I'm way way way past vilification at this point in my life.  I'm just making observations.  None of them are steeped in the sort of disparagement you seem to think they are but we misunderstand each other as a matter of course now and I don't really care anymore. 

Trump will use the LIV event to his advantage and it's only going to galvanize his base further.  That's an observation - and a good one - and I think he's our president again I'm 2025.  :shrug:

 
ICON211 said:
If these golfers are terrible people for doing business with the Saudi then anyone that has dealings with them should be criticized.  Seems like selective outrage.
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It's just different.

It would be nice if the players turned down millions for principles, but I get it. 

Trump?-Billionaire presidential candidate? That's the guy who should turn down Saudi money, and the president should be at a higher standard than golf bros. 

 
General Malaise said:
Oh, I'm way way way past vilification at this point in my life.  I'm just making observations.  None of them are steeped in the sort of disparagement you seem to think they are but we misunderstand each other as a matter of course now and I don't really care anymore. 

Trump will use the LIV event to his advantage and it's only going to galvanize his base further.  That's an observation - and a good one - and I think he's our president again I'm 2025.  :shrug:
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Well it's interesting to hear your first hand experience. Thank you for sharing it.

 
I should say at the outset that I'm the furthest thing from a golf fan, and I wouldn't watch a tournament if it were sponsored by Mother Teresa. So I have no opinion on the LIV Tour in particular, other than form what I understand, the PGA was ripe for disruption.

But as for the Saudi role, I think we can look at these things in degrees. Yes, the NBA kowtowing to China is terrible. Yes, the way the US government constantly makes nice with the Saudis and never held them accountable for 9/11 makes me ill. 

But there is something about the golfers and broadcasters willingly accepting their blood money that, IMO, is qualitatively different. In particular, the fact that the whole point of the money is to engage in "sportswashing".

And as for Trump, it's even worse, because it's not a payoff, or even a thank-you for services rendered; it's an investment. As with the money they gave to Jared, this is a bet that Trump can make it back to the White House in 2025, and when he does, they'll have him by the short-and-curiles

 
massraider said:
It's just different.

It would be nice if the players turned down millions for principles, but I get it. 

Trump?-Billionaire presidential candidate? That's the guy who should turn down Saudi money, and the president should be at a higher standard than golf bros. 
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His son in law took in $500 Billion....why wouldn't he try and drink from that well?  It's a lot easier than trying to nickel and dime it with the pillow guy.  He's long since passed on setting higher standards.  Guy is gonna suck in a lot of cash and beat the Dems with ease 2024.  He is setting a tone. 

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I should say at the outset that I'm the furthest thing from a golf fan, and I wouldn't watch a tournament if it were sponsored by Mother Teresa. So I have no opinion on the LIV Tour in particular, other than form what I understand, the PGA was ripe for disruption.

But as for the Saudi role, I think we can look at these things in degrees. Yes, the NBA kowtowing to China is terrible. Yes, the way the US government constantly makes nice with the Saudis and never held them accountable for 9/11 makes me ill. 

But there is something about the golfers and broadcasters willingly accepting their blood money that, IMO, is qualitatively different. In particular, the fact that the whole point of the money is to engage in "sportswashing".

And as for Trump, it's even worse, because it's not a payoff, or even a thank-you for services rendered; it's an investment. As with the money they gave to Jared, this is a bet that Trump can make it back to the White House in 2025, and when he does, they'll have him by the short-and-curiles
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They've had us by the short and curlies already and for a long long long time. 

It's generational money being offered and it's guaranteed.  You'd turn that down?  I wouldn't. Even though I'm a FBG and could afford to turn it down, obvs.

Also, Mother Teresa was an atrocious human being.  Read up on her.  She could give the Saudis a lesson in brutality and cruelness.  

 
General Malaise said:
His son in law took in $500 Billion....why wouldn't he try and drink from that well?  It's a lot easier than trying to nickel and dime it with the pillow guy.  He's long since passed on setting higher standards.  Guy is gonna suck in a lot of cash and beat the Dems with ease 2024.  He is setting a tone. 
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I think he's gonna suck in a lot of cash, and get beat out by DeSantis. 

 
General Malaise said:
They've had us by the short and curlies already and for a long long long time. 

It's generational money being offered and it's guaranteed.  You'd turn that down?  I wouldn't. Even though I'm a FBG and could afford to turn it down, obvs.

Also, Mother Teresa was an atrocious human being.  Read up on her.  She could give the Saudis a lesson in brutality and cruelness.  
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That actually is an interesting question. Would I turn down generational blood money? I'd like to think that I would, but I don't think I can give you a truly honest answer until I'm actually faced with it. (Side note: If any billionaires reading this want to put me to the test, send me a PM. Or just go ahead and Venmo the money to my account.)

I only used Mother Teresa because I couldn't think of a living figure with a universally positive Q rating. Oprah? Jon Stewart? Paul Rudd?

 
General Malaise said:
I went to the LIV in Oregon earlier this month and I enjoyed it quite a bit.  I don't feel bad about it either.  I'm not pro-Saudi or blind to human right violations, but I generally feel that the royal WE are selective in our outrage.  9/11 was over 20 years ago and if we as a country we're so ticked off at the Saudis for birthing many of the terrorists that pulled this off, why didn't we go to war with them?  Why did we manufacture a lie to go attack Iraq?  Why did we continue to suckle at the power teat of Saudi oil?  

And don't get me started on the horrible humans that participate in the NFL, NBA or other sports in this nation.  Dan Snyder, DeShaun Watson, Miles Bridges, Mike Vick just to name a few.  

Trump and the LIV tournament were destined for each other.  Like the professional wrestlers who turn heel and create animosity from fans, they thrive on it.   I can tell you first hand the golfers do not care about any of the issues surrounding the rogue tournament.  They got paid.  That's all that matters.  They created more generational wealth for their kids than they ever would have without the LIV.  And they are happy.  I am telling you, I got to watch Dustin Johnson up close and personal and he was smiling, laughing, giving out knuckles, gave a kid a golf ball.  No more pressure.  No staggered start times.  No festooning yourself in sponsor gear.  No cut.  Limited ticket sales (they capped the LIV Oregon at 6,000 which was perfect).  It's not a surprise that bigger names in golf are flocking to it.  

Trump will call this the greatest golf tournament that's ever been played.  He's going to bask in its glow.  And when somebody asks him if he feels bad chumming up with Saudi Sovereign Wealth (you know, the family that gave his SIL a gazillion dollars to run a fledgling private equity firm) he'll smirk and say "You think we're so innocent here"?  It's Trump 101.  The good news, if you're against all this, is that it's not easy to watch if you're not there.  I don't see too many folks using YouTube or Facebook to watch this thing.  
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Fair points.  I just have no interest in watching what is effectively a gimmick. A few great players, playing with a bunch of washed up ones and some never will bes in a contrived format that is completely uninteresting from a viewing perceptive.  Then add in the obscene amount of money being thrown around and it actually becomes a bit off putting, really.  

I get why those guys are doing it.  The cash would be hard to say no to.  But as a fan of golf?   No thanks.  

 
zoonation said:
Fair points.  I just have no interest in watching what is effectively a gimmick. A few great players, playing with a bunch of washed up ones and some never will bes in a contrived format that is completely uninteresting from a viewing perceptive.  Then add in the obscene amount of money being thrown around and it actually becomes a bit off putting, really.  

I get why those guys are doing it.  The cash would be hard to say no to.  But as a fan of golf?   No thanks.  
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As the calendar flips, more of the top golfers are joining.  It's got now, what?  6 Masters champs?  Handful more major champs?  

Every day, a new guy joins.  And the PGA suffers.  I've played fantasy golf for several years on FanDuel and in private leagues.  The landscape is changing.  In a hurry.  LIV is putting a dent into the PGA.

Shot Gun start as a spectator is terrific.  Don't love the team element of it, but being able to stand in one place with say 3 different holes in proximity is neat.  We had 1, 8, 9 all in a radius. And we were right there.  I smelled Mickelson's aftershave and had a fun pee joke interaction with his security guard.  

You aren't getting that access with the PGA.  I'll be interested to see what folks think this week.  I think there will be favorable reviews from fans and there will be zero ratings on streaming services. 

 
Can't lie- even I miss the experience of President Trump sometimes. Today is definitely one of those times:

Ben Siegel @bensiegel

Trump tells ESPN "nobody's gotten to the bottom of 9/11, unfortunately" when asked about criticism he's received from 9/11 families for hosting Saudi-backed golf tour at his Bedminster club. "Nobody’s gotten to the bottom of 9/11, unfortunately. And they should have."
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Absolutely beautiful. 10/10, no notes.

 
Toby2ElectricBugaloo said:
Can't lie- even I miss the experience of President Trump sometimes. Today is definitely one of those times:

Absolutely beautiful. 10/10, no notes.
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Others are pointing out that this tournament presents a perfect opportunity for our former president to get to the bottom of the mystery. Why spend billions of dollars on intelligence assessments and whatnot when the former president can just climb into a golf cart and ask the guy next to him what happened on September 11? 

Sp it appears that once again I have underestimated Trump. I look forward to his report on Monday.

 
timschochet said:
I’m not one to defend Trump on ANYTHING (I think he should be in prison right now) but I have to agree with @General Malaise. I’ve got no problem with this and it IS selective outrage. 
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Agreed.  I'm not a fan of Trump and I'm not a fan of Saudi Arabia.  I don't care about LIV, and this whole thing doesn't even crack the top 500 reasons not to vote for Trump.

 
General Malaise said:
And don't get me started on the horrible humans that participate in the NFL, NBA or other sports in this nation.  Dan Snyder, DeShaun Watson, Miles Bridges, Mike Vick just to name a few.  
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I mean, I wouldn't put it past him exactly, but as far as I know Dan Snyder has never sent a team of thugs to another country to suffocate a critic and then cut them into pieces with a saw.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
I mean, I wouldn't put it past him exactly, but as far as I know Dan Snyder has never sent a team of thugs to another country to suffocate a critic and then cut them into pieces with a saw.
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I don't disagree but we as a country have done some really horrific things to people. The CIA alone could make the Saudi Sovereigns look like The Walton Family.  We tortured the wrong people for information they didn't have like.....10 years ago.  

Will you watch the World Cup?   Qatar is hosting.  They built their stadiums on the backs of slave labor where it's purported over 3000 slaves died.  SLAVES!  Ratings will be fine.

China and Russia host the Olympics and a bunch of the world watches. I need not mention how evil these countries have been.  

Think I've made my point, but I could go on and on.....

Selective outrage.

 
The next move for the LIV is to start poaching the top LPGA players.  Coed LIV would be dope.  Or just poach the hotter ones (don't ban me for that) to maybe begin a ratings push. I'd get Paige Spororijeisic (sp?) yesterday.

 
General Malaise said:
The next move for the LIV is to start poaching the top LPGA players.  Coed LIV would be dope.  Or just poach the hotter ones (don't ban me for that) to maybe begin a ratings push. I'd get Paige Spororijeisic (sp?) yesterday.
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Not sure if you are kidding, but that mixed Scandinavian tourney was awesome. Grant just destroyed the field. My daughter was giddy..bought her the same pink flower magnet ball marker she had and man did my stock soar. 

 
General Malaise said:
I went to the LIV in Oregon earlier this month and I enjoyed it quite a bit.  I don't feel bad about it either.  I'm not pro-Saudi or blind to human right violations, but I generally feel that the royal WE are selective in our outrage.  9/11 was over 20 years ago.
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Almost like genocide in Yemen isn’t even happening. But hey, knucks from DJ so it’s all good. 

 
General Malaise said:
His son in law took in $500 Billion....why wouldn't he try and drink from that well?  It's a lot easier than trying to nickel and dime it with the pillow guy.  He's long since passed on setting higher standards.  Guy is gonna suck in a lot of cash and beat the Dems with ease 2024.  He is setting a tone. 
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I don’t think it’s such a given. This report on focus group opinions on Trump is interesting. It seems to indicate that even folks who still like Trump (and would definitely vote for him if he is the GOP candidate) are tiring of the circus and want to move on. Out of 9 focus groups conducted since June, only 14 percent of 2020 Trump voters said they want him to run again. That is compared to 50% in the previous focus groups before the Jan 6th hearings began. In 4 of the focus groups, ZERO PERCENT of 2020 Trump voters wanted him to run again.

But when push comes to shove and Trump is running and attacking his GOP opponents and they are weakly deflecting just like Trump’s 2020 GOP opponents because they don’t want to risk upsetting Trump’s followers, will his support go right back to where it was?

This would all be a lot less of a thing if Biden appeared to be in any way competent or if the Dems had any halfway decent alternative lined up. Alas.

But I’m totally off topic. As someone who doesn’t care about golf much at all, it doesn’t move my meter much one way or the other, other than I’m not at all surprised that Trump is not only taking cash from the Sauds, but also then defending them, just like they intended.

 
General Malaise said:
I'm sorry, remind me of the country you live in again?  Cause if it's the United States, boy do I have some news for you.
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C'mon man. There's a massive difference between simply playing golf in/living in a country vs accepting tens of millions of dollars from a country to play in an event it funds, for the clear purpose of "sportswashing" that country's many horrific crimes. And to play it in the shadow of Manhattan while 9/11 protestors beg you not to do so? Sorry, but comparing an over-the-hill golfer accepting millions of dollars to be a part of that nonsense to people simply living in the US is beyond ridiculous.

In a previous post you mentioned the Olympics in Beijing and Russia as events Americans participated in without hesitation as some evidence of hypocrisy. But there was hesitation, in both cases. Many called for boycotts of Beijing, and both there and for Sochi we actually did a "political boycott" and no leaders attending the festivities.

In the case of the Olympic athletes themselves it was eventually a fairly easy call, because boycotts don't accomplish much and because thousands of athletes would be deprived of an opportunity to achieve a lifelong dream for political reasons, and that doesn't sit well with anyone. Contrast that with Bubba Watson, already a two-time Masters winner and set for life financially, deciding to take tens of millions to play in what is essentially a political goodwill event. These things are not the same.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Trump this past week defending his lucrative partnership with the Saudis regarding the LIV golf tournament telling ESPN that "nobody has gotten to the bottom of 9/11."

🇺🇸

 
massraider said:
Trump this past week defending his lucrative partnership with the Saudis regarding the LIV golf tournament telling ESPN that "nobody has gotten to the bottom of 9/11."

🇺🇸
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"Who blew up the World Trade Center? It wasn't the Iraqis, it was Saudi—take a look at Saudi Arabia, open the documents,"

-Trump told Fox News in February 2016.

 
So this little LIV event turned into a Trump rally? I thought sports and politics didn't mix - remember "shut up and dribble"?  

 
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