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Liz Cheney “History is watching us.” (1 Viewer)

bigbottom said:
Yeah, that’s a senior in high school knocking up an eighth grader. Yuck. 
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Sea Duck said:
In this particular case, it was more likely to be a college freshman impregnating a girl who had just started the 9th grade. Also yuck. And also a felony under Florida statutes of 1983.
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It's more like a senior knocking up a freshman, but let's all speculate, shall we? Sounds about right for this discussion. And felonies need to have a charge by someone before they're prosecuted. It's called prosecutorial discretion, and was probably exercised in this case.

Not all felonies acts go charged and punished. You don't seem to get that, SeaDuck, but you keep on trucking your partisan song and calling it a felony. It's not. Not until he's charged. You're not a lawyer. It's an act that can be considered felonious by the DA.

 
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rockaction said:
It's more like a senior knocking up a freshman, but let's all speculate, shall we? Sounds about right for this discussion.
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Why the snarky response?  A 14 year old freshman would only be 17 as a senior at the same time. Alternatively, an 18 year old senior would have been an eighth grader at 14 at the same time.  But yes, it’s possible that you have an older senior and a younger freshman. Still yuck. And for what it’s worth, I didn’t say anything about it being a crime and instead was agreeing with fatguy’s post, which happened to be in line with yours on the criminality aspect. 

 
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bigbottom said:
Why the snarky response?  A 14 year old freshman would only be 17 as a senior at the same time. Alternatively, an 18 year old senior would have been an eighth grader at 14 at the same time.  But yes, it’s possible that you have an older senior and a younger freshman. Still yuck. 
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The snarky response is because it's probably very much or will be very much within public discourse soon, and I'll almost bet it's how I've presented it. Generally, people turn 18 as seniors and turn 14 as freshman. That's keeping with almost everybody I knew in high school. And they probably started at 17 and 13, on average.

Perhaps it's snarky because SeaDuck gave me one of these :mellow: before when he didn't want to address my totally valid point, so there's that going into the conversation. I loathe that ####.

 
Plus, a basic Google search of "high school senior, age" gives you a bolded "18 years old" as an answer, with the potential for 17 being the other age, but on average is 18. Google "Average age of high school senior," and you get 14 years old as your bold answer.

One would figure when discussing hypotheticals, one would take the average age other than the one that makes it seem more drastic, but you guys do you.

 
rockaction said:
The snarky response is because it's probably very much or will be very much within public discourse soon, and I'll almost bet it's how I've presented it. Generally, people turn 18 as seniors and turn 14 as freshman. That's keeping with almost everybody I knew in high school. And they probably started at 17 and 13, on average.

Perhaps it's snarky because SeaDuck gave me one of these :mellow: before when he didn't want to address my totally valid point, so there's that going into the conversation. I loathe that ####.
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Turn 14 as freshmen?  That would mean they start freshmen year as 13-year-olds (and are 16-year-old seniors)?  I’m guessing you meant to say they start freshmen man year as 14 year-olds and turn 15. In any event, yes, it is certainly possible that an 18-year-old Senior knocked up a 14-year-old freshman. But since they’re having sex at the same time, it would be either a younger freshman or an older senior, depending on when during the school year he got her pregnant. Regardless, yuck. Just my opinion, though. Sorry if it annoys you. 

 
bigbottom said:
Turn 14 as freshmen?  That would mean they start freshmen year as 13-year-olds (and are 16-year-old seniors)?  I’m guessing you meant to say they start freshmen man year as 14 year-olds and turn 15. In any event, yes, it is certainly possible that an 18-year-old Senior knocked up a 14-year-old freshman. But since they’re having sex at the same time, it would be either a younger freshman or an older senior, depending on when during the school year he got her pregnant. Regardless, yuck. Just my opinion, though. Sorry if it annoys you. 
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No, your opinion is fine. The age discrepancy you assume isn't in keeping with the average ages of the two people in question, that's all.

 
rockaction said:
Plus, a basic Google search of "high school senior, age" gives you a bolded "18 years old" as an answer, with the potential for 17 being the other age, but on average is 18. Google "Average age of high school senior," and you get 14 years old as your bold answer.

One would figure when discussing hypotheticals, one would take the average age other than the one that makes it seem more drastic, but you guys do you
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Do you mean average age of high school freshman?  I’m assuming that’s a a typo in your post. And unless a whole bunch of people are flunking a grade, it doesn’t really make sense that the average age of a freshman is 14 and the average age of a senior is 18. I mean, I don’t want to question the underpinnings of your Google searches, but how does that work?

Put another way, are there seniors that start at 17 and turn 18 during their senior year?  Of course. And are there freshman who start at 14 and turn 15 during their freshman year?  Again, of course. So yea, he could have been an older senior who turned 18 early in his senior year, or she could have been a younger freshman who turned 15 late in her freshman year.  But as an average, on September 1, most seniors will be 17 (not 18) and most eighth graders will be 14.  Conversely, on May 1, most seniors will be 18, but most freshmen will be 15 (not 14).  And since this couple is not time traveling while having sex, I’d argue that the “averages” you cite don’t actually support your proposition. But if I were a betting man, I think you’re right that it’s more likely than not that she was a freshman and he was a senior, not because of statistical analysis, but because it would be exceptional and surprisingly sad for an 18 year old senior to be trolling the junior high for sex.  In any event, an 18 year old knocking up a 14 year old, even in the 80s when I was both a 14 year old and an 18 year old, is . . . yuck. 

 
rockaction said:
No, your opinion is fine. The age discrepancy you assume isn't in keeping with the average ages of the two people in question, that's all.
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For what it’s worth, as you suggested, I just did a Google search for “average age of high school freshman” and the first 5 results say 14-15 years old, not 14 years old. I also did a Google search for “average age of 8th grader” and the results state 13-14 years old. Finally, I did a search for “average age of high school senior” and most results state 17-18 years old. In fact, this was the very first search result: https://www.reference.com/world-view/average-age-freshman-sophomore-junior-senior-d9f715dbfc5e75e0

Edit:  I think the “bolded” 18 years of age you are referring to might be the search result listing for Wikipedia. If you open that link, here is what it says: 

The twelfth grade is the twelfth school year after kindergarten. It is also the last year of compulsory secondary education, or "high school". Students are often 17–18 years old. Twelfth graders are referred to as Seniors.

I didn’t find anything in that link that actually says that the average age of high school seniors in the U.S. is 18. It’s only in the Google search result. 

 
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Yeah, BB, I meant the actual Google searches. Type in "average age of a high school senior" or "average age of a high school freshman" into Google and you'll get the bolded result of "18 years old" and "14 years old." That's exactly what I'm saying. I'd like to bring my own tone back to one that is hospitable, though.

But that's what you'll find. Your analysis is largely correct, too. One can look at it your way, only that means they were probably 17 and 13, which would not be a felony, most likely. Everything is sort of messy.

 
Try "average age of high school senior" and see what you get. I'm getting a big bold answer that says "18 years old."

 
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This is what I'm getting, BB. YMMV.

"Average age of high school senior"

18 years old

The average age of a senior in high school is 17 or 18 years old. Being a senior at that age means that it's nearing time to graduate from high school and going to college or enter the adult world in some working capacity.

https://www.reference.com › world-view › average-age-fr...

What Is the Average Age of a Freshman, Sophomore, Junior ...

 
This is what I get from "average age of high school freshman," and is different from before.

14 to 15 years

In the United States, ninth grade is usually the first year in high school (called "upper secondary school" in other countries). In this system, ninth graders are also often referred to as freshmen. It can also be the last year of junior high school. The typical age for U.S. 9th grade students is 14 to 15 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Ninth_grade

Ninth grade - Wikipedia

 
This guy could have gotten dozens of young girls pregnant and if he’s the main GOP opposition to Cheney, he’s still likely to be a congressman in January of 2023. 

 
rockaction said:
This is what I'm getting, BB. YMMV.

"Average age of high school senior"

18 years old

The average age of a senior in high school is 17 or 18 years old. Being a senior at that age means that it's nearing time to graduate from high school and going to college or enter the adult world in some working capacity.

https://www.reference.com › world-view › average-age-fr...

What Is the Average Age of a Freshman, Sophomore, Junior ...
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Right. The average age of a high school senior is 17-18 years old, not 18 years old. The headline in the search result is not in the actual text of the link you quoted. 

 
bigbottom said:
Right. The average age of a high school senior is 17-18 years old, not 18 years old. The headline in the search result is not in the actual text of the link you quoted. 
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Oh, it is for mine. It's bolded and right at the top.

It says "18 years old." I didn't type that in to the text box. That's a direct cut-and-paste, much like the "14 to 15 years" was a direct cut-and-paste, too.

 
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rockaction said:
Oh, it is for mine. It's bolded and right at the top.

It says "18 years old." I didn't type that in to the text box. That's a direct cut-and-paste, much like the "14 or 15 years old" was a direct cut-and-paste, too.
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Yes, you’re cutting and pasting that from the Google search result, right?

 
Just so you know this is what I'm seeing the "14 to 15 years" has this: "About 16,600,000 results (0.49 seconds)"

The 18 years old has this: "About 237,000,000 results (0.60 seconds)"

 
I think I'm now just writing so that you know I'm seeing this and not lying, rather than arguing against the substantive argument about 17-18 years of age, which sounds very right to me. I'm not disputing that.

 
rockaction said:
Yes.
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And what I’m saying is that the Google search result that says “18 years old” is not an accurate reflection of the source. Click the link and read the substantive text. It says 17-18 years old. It doesn’t say 18 years old  

Moreover, you stated previously that the same search for freshman yielded 14 years old, but now acknowledge that it says 14-15 years old. 

It’s really not a big deal, but I didn’t care for your suggestion that I was being disingenuous in my initial comment. 

 
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bigbottom said:
And what I’m saying is that the Google search result that says “18 years old” is not an accurate reflection of the source. Click the link and read the substantive text. It says 17-18 years old. It doesn’t say 18 years old  

Moreover, you stated previously that the same search for freshman yielded 14 years old, but now acknowledge that it says 14-15 years old. 

It’s really not a big deal, but I didn’t care you for suggestion that I was being disingenuous in my initial comment. 
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Mmm...that is an issue, and would be an issue in a courtroom perhaps, but mine changed from "14 years old" to "14 to 15 years." I must have worded the search terms differently. I'll bet if I plumb away I could get that result again but there seems to be no need since the substantive element of it is really the important part.

I didn't suggest you were being disingenuous. I don't think that's really an issue with you. I don't think that's an issue with most people on this board. SeaDuck had him as a college-aged freshman. I doubted that, and stated why.

 
rockaction said:
Mmm...that is an issue, and would be an issue in a courtroom perhaps, but mine changed from "14 years old" to "14 to 15 years." I must have worded the search terms differently. I'll bet if I plumb away I could get that result again but there seems to be no need since the substantive element of it is really the important part.

I didn't suggest you were being disingenuous. I don't think that's really an issue with you. I don't think that's an issue with most people on this board. SeaDuck had him as a college-aged freshman. I doubted that, and stated why.
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In the 80s (the time in question), I was 18 for the entirety of my freshman year in college. And the vast majority of my friends in college were 18 for some or all of their college freshman year. 

 
bigbottom said:
In the 80s (the time in question), I was 18 for the entirety of my freshman year in college. And the vast majority of my friends in college were 18 for some or all of their college freshman year. 
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In the 90s, I had a brief moment of being 18 as a post-grad high school student (consider it when I should have been in college). I was seventeen until late August after I graduated high school, which I'm sure many people have had. I'm arguing that it's more likely that he was seventeen when she was pregnant, which makes more sense and keeps him out of felony range, which is what I'm generally arguing against. Perhaps it might behoove us to check the story as it comes out. I could be wrong. I'd doubt it, but it's certainly within reason.

 
rockaction said:
In the 90s, I had a brief moment of being 18 as a post-grad high school student (consider it when I should have been in college). I was seventeen until late August after I graduated high school, which I'm sure many people have had. I'm arguing that it's more likely that he was seventeen when she was pregnant, which makes more sense and keeps him out of felony range, which is what I'm generally arguing against. Perhaps it might behoove us to check the story as it comes out. I could be wrong. I'd doubt it, but it's certainly within reason.
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I’ve stated the same thing as a more than likely conclusion. Even though most 14-18 comparators on a given day are either 8th graders and high school seniors or 9th graders and college freshmen, it would be even more shocking if he knocked her up while she was in junior high or he was in college. I’ll bet on a yuck over a double-yuck. So while my initial observation was valid, i acknowledge that it very well could be off the mark. 

 
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rockaction said:
bigbottom said:
In the 80s (the time in question), I was 18 for the entirety of my freshman year in college. And the vast majority of my friends in college were 18 for some or all of their college freshman year. 
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In the 90s, I had a brief moment of being 18 as a post-grad high school student (consider it when I should have been in college). I was seventeen until late August after I graduated high school, which I'm sure many people have had. I'm arguing that it's more likely that he was seventeen when she was pregnant, which makes more sense and keeps him out of felony range, which is what I'm generally arguing against. Perhaps it might behoove us to check the story as it comes out. I could be wrong. I'd doubt it, but it's certainly within reason.
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In the early 90’s when I graduated I was 17.  Was super pissed that year as my school had a policy in place that once you turned 18 you could sign yourself for school (presumably because you were an adult) and no longer needed your parents to do it.  I was the only one I knew who couldn’t.  🤬

As the father of a young daughter the idea of my 14 yr old getting pregnant makes me want to vomit.  And as rock can arrest some real anger gets invoked in me with the thought of an adult and a child together (see the Matt Gaetz thread).  But here this falls closer to the yuck and disapproval side for me vs the going to the kicking down some doors side.  

 
rockaction said:
In the 90s, I had a brief moment of being 18 as a post-grad high school student (consider it when I should have been in college). I was seventeen until late August after I graduated high school, which I'm sure many people have had. I'm arguing that it's more likely that he was seventeen when she was pregnant, which makes more sense and keeps him out of felony range, which is what I'm generally arguing against. Perhaps it might behoove us to check the story as it comes out. I could be wrong. I'd doubt it, but it's certainly within reason.
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Per the Casper Star Tribune, he told the newspaper that he was 18 when he got her pregnant. 

https://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/us-house-candidate-bouchard-says-he-impregnated-14-year-old-when-he-was-18/article_c3996062-e6ad-5027-96a9-1bcd0f832eda.html

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
Years from now (or sooner) the left will deny that they ever tried to make a Cheney a hero.
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For sure. She served her purpose and like all people the Democrats use she'll be cast aside once her usefulness is over. Just ask David Hogg what that's like.

The Democrats get a win-win here. They get Liz Cheney to roll over and help them with their witch hunts and now she gets ousted and they don't have to deal with her anymore. No favors to pay back and no compromises on future bills. They got her free of charge. It worked out absolutely brilliantly for the Democrats.
 
BladeRunner said:
NorvilleBarnes said:
Years from now (or sooner) the left will deny that they ever tried to make a Cheney a hero.
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For sure. She served her purpose and like all people the Democrats use she'll be cast aside once her usefulness is over. Just ask David Hogg what that's like.

The Democrats get a win-win here. They get Liz Cheney to roll over and help them with their witch hunts and now she gets ousted and they don't have to deal with her anymore. No favors to pay back and no compromises on future bills. They got her free of charge. It worked out absolutely brilliantly for the Democrats.
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Not to mention there will be a network bidding war to have the privilege of throwing money at her to be their attack dog. Poor thing.
 
Republicans are simply hell bent on nuking any sort of chance of civil politics over the next twenty years. They're even making people like me angry, and I was what you would consider an ardent conservative as of five or six years ago. No more. Goodbye, GOP. You wound up with the kooks and disaffected, many in numbers. Now let's watch them govern.
 
I want to know what on earth was funny about that, Bozeman. In case you haven't been around, that's a reportable offense these days. Don't laugh at the Republic failing. It's not funny.

But you know that. You're just a hardened cynic and apologist for political chicanery and depravity, not to mention violence. Well, when it's either you or me up against the wall, don't think I won't nominate you as the fool and the person who brought it about.
 
rockaction said:
Republicans are simply hell bent on nuking any sort of chance of civil politics over the next twenty years. They're even making people like me angry, and I was what you would consider an ardent conservative as of five or six years ago. No more. Goodbye, GOP. You wound up with the kooks and disaffected, many in numbers. Now let's watch them govern.
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Welcome. The bar is over there.
 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
The media and left going full meltdown over a woman they hated 8 years ago is what is funny
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It is ironic, but have you thought of something else? That maybe someone who was revered by the party eight years ago is somebody you might want to listen to when she assesses her own voluntary downfall in the service of something greater? I'd sure listen if it were me. In fact, I have been listening. It's totally cemented the deal for me, as if it wasn't already.

Bozeman Bruiser said:
You are one of the smart ones here Rock, do not let group think and media hysteria sway you so easily
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Thank you, but I've been listening to my own advice that I'd give to people over the years. When somebody announces their intention to do something, and then goes ahead and does it, you ought to listen to their subsequent postulations, or in this case, threats. Those threats made against the typical workings of the Republic by Donald Trump came to fruition, and he was dead serious about them. He egged on a crowd that was hell bent on keeping a transfer of power violent and unstable.

It's again ironic, but I find it hard to believe that people who were so dead set on believing the literalism of Islamic jihad (I am one of those people that still takes those threats literally and seriously) would turn around and say that a politician they support shouldn't be taken at face value. They sometimes claim that he just is having a gas and pissing off the libs for fun and that he doesn't mean any of it. That's where sussing out the truth comes in handy. It's not groupthink what I'm doing. It's far from it. I'm listening to what he and his close advisors say and do. I need no media or group to help me out with that.
 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
Terrific speech by Cheney.

www.youtube.com

Watch what Cheney told supporters after losing Wyoming GOP primary

Wyoming Republican Rep. Liz Cheney, who has emerged as on of former President Donald Trump’s most forceful critics, told her supporters that the real work to...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
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That was the Republican Party I used to be a member of.
Now that Trump owns it, hope he changes the name of it.
Bizarre thing is Trump has spent more of his life as a Democrat. Only changed because it gave him a chance at winning.
 
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