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LL Coach Torments 10yr old Pitcher during Tournament Game - WWYD? (1 Viewer)

Peak

Footballguy
I know...TL:DR.  Synopsis: 35 year old LL Baseball Coach bullied a 10 yr old pitcher to cause him distress so that his team could score 3 easy runs.  Said coach even put one of his own players at risk by sending him running full speed to home plate during a pitch - not knowing if the pitcher would stop or not.  How can a little league coach be such a ##### as to pick on a young kid the way he did?  What would you do if your kid was the pitcher, or if you were the pitcher's coach?  

A 10yr old is pitching in the semi-finals of a tournament.  His team is winning by 1 run, and folloiwng 2 strikeouts, he walks a batter.  Once on the base, the other team's head coach begins running up/down the 3rd baseline and yelling at the umpire that the pitcher has balked.  He's animated and loud, so the umpire stops the game and talks to both coaches.  No signs of a balk, so all is good. and play resumes.  Before the next pitch is thrown the visiting team's HC is at it again - animated and yelling.  He does this enough times that he's rattled the 10 yr old pitcher who doesn't know what this coach is talking about but realizes that he's talking about something he is/isn't doing.  The boy is visibly distraught and trying to get back into the game, but the HC is still yelling and now the baserunner steals 2nd while the pitcher is looking at the other team's coach.  The Pitcher's coach and his team yell about the runner, but it's too late as he's already into his pitching movement.  Now the pitcher stops moving and doesn't complete the pitch, and he truly does balk.  The umpire calls it, and the runner goes to 3rd.  The pitcher tries to gather himself, but musters a 2-1 count on the next batter.  The other HC starts yelling for a balk again.  The umpire doesn't call anything, but the Pitcher's coach calls time to talk to the pitcher.  The boy is visabily distraught and rattled.  The visiting team's HC is standing on third smiling and laughing while watching the other HC talk to his pitcher.  When play resumes, the pitcher steps on the rubber and begins his pitch only to see the runner at third now heading towards home plate.  He doesn't know what to do, so he doesn't complete his pitch but starts running for home with the ball.  The pitcher is completely off his game now as the other team's HC is yelling balk, the umpire is yelling balk, and the pitcher is looking confused while his coach tries to work everything out with the ump.

The pitcher eventually finishes the inning getting a ground out, but the damage is done.  The visiting team's HC has put enough emotional stress on this kid that he doesn't know whats going on or why everyone is yelling at him.  One of his coaches pulls him aside and talks to him on what happened and steps to correct it.  The pitcher goes back in, but still receives the same treatment from the visiting team's HC.  The umpire doesn't say anything or intervenes.  The pitcher stays in for one last inning and then is relieved, but still shaken.

Having been a little league coach previously, I couldn't believe what I was seeing/hearing.  Yes it was a tournament, but how can a grown adult live with himself knowing that he just spent the better part of 20 minutes bullying a 10 year old for equaled 3 runs for his team?  I tried to think of what I would have done were I the pitcher's coach or even his parent.  How does the umpire not notice what is going on and step in with a warning to that coach?  What kind of lesson is he teaching his kid?  What would have happened to that base runner had the pitcher kept pitching and the batter swung?  The pitch would have beat him to home by 3 steps, just in time for the runner to get hit by the bat.  This wasn't a quick dash down half the line and stop, the runner was going non-stop.  The coach risked that kid's health on a bet with himself that another kid wouldn't throw the ball.  

 
The only person that could do anything about it was the ump.

It takes someone with experience and confidence to figure out what is happening and make the correct move there.  I'm sure the ump was just as surprised by the whole thing as you were.  Since its little league, odds are this wasn't a highly trained ump.

Nothing the parents or opposing coach could do that wouldn't make it a "2 wrongs don't make a right" scenario.

 
Every time I feel bad about my station in life, I remember all the dooshbag Dads that think their kid is the next Nolan Ryan.  I live in an area where "club ball" and "travel teams" are a HUGE thing.  I also happened to grow up with a number of guy's that turned into professional athletes and am smart enough to know that no amount of the ridiculousness and year-round training these kids are subject to will ever replace the fact that some kids are faster, stronger, and better athletes than little-Timmy-whose-Dad-pushes-him-too-hard.

 
Agree that ump should have done something about the third base coach.  If I was the coach of the pitcher I would have called time to go speak with the umpire.  Bush league

 
Pitchers coach has to tell him to attempt a pick off with runner at third and drill the coach in the nads
My first thought too.  

A few other thoughts:

1. This actually happened to me when I was pitching about this age.  Opposing team's third base coach was basically talking crap to me.  Was yelling out my pitches (I think I was like 11 and I had learned how to throw a change and some sort of curve that didn't jack up your arm but was really just grip plus release point), calling balk, telling me I was going to get drilled when it was my turn to hit, etc.  I still remember it vividly. I pitched badly. My coach asked the guy to stop but he wouldn't.  It sucked. I think we even lost.  

2. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the ump can do anything there.  Ideally, he sees through the antics.  But, really, the coach isn't actually breaking a written rule (even though he's arguably breaking a ton of unwritten rules).  

3. Hopefully the visiting coach goes home to his shanty, drinks his Natural Ice, and hates life. 

 
My daughter was in a 10yo girls volleyball rec-league this spring. A game against the top team, and our girls are winning. I began to notice in the second game, one of the moms on the other team would deliberately make "C'mon!" comments during the backswing of our girls' serves. By the third game, it was so obvious, several parents finally said something out loud about how uncool it was. And then it stopped.

 
I don't know baseball rules, but in football and basketball, an official can absolutely punish what is deemed unsporting behavior and should have done so here, imo.

 
Since when can runners leave the base before the ball reaches home
In this league, stealing home begins at 10u. Overall stealing on the pitch began at 8U.  Runners on 3rd could "steal home" on a wild pitch/passed ball in 9U.

 
couldt his league, stealing  home begins at 10u. Overall stealing on the pitch began at 8U.  Runners on 3rd could "steal home" on a wild pitch/passed ball in 9U.
IGet that but when i Was invoLved With  LL 9 - 12 you couLd steal but not on telease

 
I don't know baseball rules, but in football and basketball, an official can absolutely punish what is deemed unsporting behavior and should have done so here, imo.
I had the same thought.  The ump didn't fall for the antics every time, but he didn't do anything to stop them either.  Very odd situation.  I was just watching and felt bad for the kid.  The pitchers team ended up losing by 4 runs, but those two innings definitely altered the outcome and how the team played the rest of that game.
 

 
IGet that but when i Was invoLved With  LL 9 - 12 you couLd steal but not on telease
Gotcha - read that wrong.  Sorry.  Good point, I don't know then.  The Pitcher's coach should have known though, but I didn't hear him bring it up.  

 
Douchey coach, but on the bright side, that pitcher could use it as a great learning lesson in sports and life in general.  D-bags are everywhere and you have to deal with them.

 
IGet that but when i Was invoLved With  LL 9 - 12 you couLd steal but not on telease
They must have been able to.  At 10U traveling in my area, at the age you have to wait for the release, or for it to cross home plate, there is no leading off.  When there is no leading off, there is no balk.  Rules here must have been the kids could lead off and steal freely, otherwise there is no balk.

 
IMO should have tossed him at some point. Still think it's laughable that they call balls in LL when the runner can't leave until the ball crosses the plate. 

 
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1.  Opposing coach is a grade-A duuche.  People like that ruin youth sports.

2.  Ump absolutely should have done something right about the 2nd time coach started yelling.  Warning then ejection etc.

3.  Pitcher's coach should have called out other coach.  "Really?  These are 10 year olds.  You're an adult.  I'm embarrassed for you."

4.  I really hate club/travel/ultra-competitive kids sports.

 
1.  Opposing coach is a grade-A duuche.  People like that ruin youth sports.

2.  Ump absolutely should have done something right about the 2nd time coach started yelling.  Warning then ejection etc.

3.  Pitcher's coach should have called out other coach.  "Really?  These are 10 year olds.  You're an adult.  I'm embarrassed for you."

4.  I really hate club/travel/ultra-competitive kids sports.
This is the most I've ever agreed with anything you wrote.

Let's be friends.

 
When I played youth soccer, in a similar situation, my coach pulled the team.  Yeah, it still sucks.  You forfeit.  But if the ref isn't going to protect his players, I think a coach has to. 

 
Littleht I was just more spies that litt le10U traveling in my area, at the age you have to wait for the release, or for it to cross home plate, there is no leading off.  When there is no leading off, there is no balk.  Rules here must have been the kids could lead off and steal freely, otherwise there is no balk.
DidNt mean to hijack.

just surprised LittLe league changed.

the rules was always reach home.

coach was a doosh

 
DidNt mean to hijack.

just surprised LittLe league changed.

the rules was always reach home.

coach was a doosh
The coach is a doosh without question.

I think the issue for this thread is non standard rules.  For ten year olds in my area, kids could play Cal Ripken (technically 11-12 I think), two different state wide traveling associations, Little League, or an in house program put on by the city. I wouldn't be surprised if each had different rules for stealing/balks, or at least, different levels of emphasis.

 
I would not be happy if that was my kids coach.

Also agree about the stealing at such a young age.  no chance of anyone getting thrown out.

 
DidNt mean to hijack.

just surprised LittLe league changed.

the rules was always reach home.

coach was a doosh
We are in little league and our 9U is no leading, stealing when ball reaches home. 10U has leading, but again, can't steal until crosses plate. I don't recall ever seeing a balk at 10U and I know it doesn't happen in 9U. This may be different than some, but we don't have stealing home in our 9U. I think some of that is because of the age changes recently, so you have a lot of 8 year olds in 9U.

ETA: I would have called time and had a meeting with the umps. One thing our little league has been stressing way more is coaches not being ##### to the umps, so I couldn't imagine this flying. We've been told (due to at least one complete ****) that one warning from the umps and then they can toss you. Even that one **** wouldn't pull a stunt like this.

ETA2: Why is ##### plural verboten but just plain old **** is not?

 
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We are in little league and our 9U is no leading, stealing when ball reaches home. 10U has leading, but again, can't steal until crosses plate. I don't recall ever seeing a balk at 10U and I know it doesn't happen in 9U. This may be different than some, but we don't have stealing home in our 9U. I think some of that is because of the age changes recently, so you have a lot of 8 year olds in 9U.

ETA: I would have called time and had a meeting with the umps. One thing our little league has been stressing way more is coaches not being ##### to the umps, so I couldn't imagine this flying. We've been told (due to at least one complete ****) that one warning from the umps and then they can toss you. Even that one **** wouldn't pull a stunt like this.
Agreed...the other coach is a doosh, but the pitchers coach is a big wuss.  

 
Ump should have talked to pitcher.  Told him he is doing nothing wrong and to just keep throwing to the plate, but sort of outside.  The ump should have called every ball a strike until the loudmouth engaged the ump instead of the kid.  Then toss his ###.  The ump should then have called both teams to the mound apologized that he had to deal with an ###, and encourage all the boys to play their best so that win or lose they could be proud.

 
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My first thought too.  

A few other thoughts:

1. This actually happened to me when I was pitching about this age.  Opposing team's third base coach was basically talking crap to me.  Was yelling out my pitches (I think I was like 11 and I had learned how to throw a change and some sort of curve that didn't jack up your arm but was really just grip plus release point), calling balk, telling me I was going to get drilled when it was my turn to hit, etc.  I still remember it vividly. I pitched badly. My coach asked the guy to stop but he wouldn't.  It sucked. I think we even lost.  

2. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the ump can do anything there.  Ideally, he sees through the antics.  But, really, the coach isn't actually breaking a written rule (even though he's arguably breaking a ton of unwritten rules).  

3. Hopefully the visiting coach goes home to his shanty, drinks his Natural Ice, and hates life. 
If what Peak is saying is correct, the coach cannot leave the coaches box down 3rd base line. 

Secondly, if the pitcher started his wind up and the runner had not left 2nd base on the balk, he should have only been awarded 2nd base not 3rd.

Finally, I've seen teams run, run, run on teams because it rattles them especially at a young age. Now I'm not here to argue what age that is appropriate but if you're in the tournament you should know how to stop a team that runs.

 
If what Peak is saying is correct, the coach cannot leave the coaches box down 3rd base line. 

Secondly, if the pitcher started his wind up and the runner had not left 2nd base on the balk, he should have only been awarded 2nd base not 3rd.

Finally, I've seen teams run, run, run on teams because it rattles them especially at a young age. Now I'm not here to argue what age that is appropriate but if you're in the tournament you should know how to stop a team that runs.
I was mainly referring to the coach's childish behavior (and not the specifics of the balk calls).  I'd agree though that if the coach couldn't leave the 3rd base box and he did that the umpire could use that to sanction him somehow.  My point is that it's tough to require or expect an umpire to take action when an opposing coach is essentially just acting like a ten year old himself. 

 
Finally, I've seen teams run, run, run on teams because it rattles them especially at a young age. Now I'm not here to argue what age that is appropriate but if you're in the tournament you should know how to stop a team that runs.
Agreed,  but how is a kid supposed to stop a grown man from acting like that?  Let the boys play and leave the chest pounding at home.  I would have rather seen these kids try to get the runners out instead of watching such poor coaching and officiating take that from them. 

 
Find out where that coach works (big assumption), and then take the whole team there to heckle him while he was working.  Worst case he panics and loses his pinky toe in some bizarre accident.

 
I remember when I was about 10 and pitching in little league. there was always this guy in the stands who would heckle me, tell me I throw like a girl, and all kinds of stuff. finally after one game, I went up to him and said, "dad, can you please be quiet when I'm pitching?"

 
Ump should have talked to pitcher.  Told him he is doing nothing wrong and to just keep throwing to the plate, but sort of outside.  The ump should have called every ball a strike until the loudmouth engaged the ump instead of the kid.  
Exactly the way to handle it.  EVERYTHING is a strike until Jackhole settles down or loses. 

Probably why I'd be a horrible ump. 

 
I don't know baseball rules, but in football and basketball, an official can absolutely punish what is deemed unsporting behavior and should have done so here, imo.
Yeah he's not allowed to leave his coaches box if the ump wants to enforce it.

Any ump worth anything would have put a stop to this pretty quick.

I didn't think a 10 yr old could balk :shrug:

 
Yeah, did the other teams coaches just stand by and watch this weirdo and do nothing?
Yes.  They sat in the dugout or stood at first base.  They didn't say or do anything.  Neither did the parents watching.  I think that's what has bothered me about this is that no one did anything to stop it. 

 
I had the same thought.  The ump didn't fall for the antics every time, but he didn't do anything to stop them either.  Very odd situation.  I was just watching and felt bad for the kid.  The pitchers team ended up losing by 4 runs, but those two innings definitely altered the outcome and how the team played the rest of that game.
 
Was definitely within the umps purview to eject him

 
Yes.  They sat in the dugout or stood at first base.  They didn't say or do anything.  Neither did the parents watching.  I think that's what has bothered me about this is that no one did anything to stop it. 
Well that's too bad. Always look out for your kids above all else

 
He's a jerk. Your coach should have used a mound visit and waited for the ump to come out to break it up to talk to him.

We just played a 10u tournament with leadoffs and balks and it's entirely too young. We didn't even practice it til a few days before as most of our tournaments are not that way. The 2 teams that always play that way had a clear advantage. Even a good catcher barely made steals close. A walks a triple baseball...lame.

 
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We just played a 10u tournament with leadoffs and balks and it's entirely too young. We didn't even practice it til a few days before as most of our tournaments are not that way. The 2 teams that always play that way had a clear advantage. Even a good catcher barely made steals close. A walks a triple baseball...lame.
Agreed. When I played youth baseball we didn't start that stuff until Pony League at age 13, and even then there was no penalty for a balk in the first half of the season - you were just warned and given an explanation by the umpire. And it was still really easy to steal.

 
It has already been mentioned but I can not believe the pitcher's Coach did not step up here....that is so weak...this is a cut and dry issue and to sit back and let this tool do this is unacceptable...especially at the Select level where (at least in theory) the coaches should be a little more advanced as opposed to the town level where the Coach maybe a Dad just doing the right thing...the idiot Coach needs a beating but the other coaches should be embarrassed about not doing the right thing here...

 

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