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"Loaning" players (1 Viewer)

wgoldsph

Footballguy
Wanted to get the board's opinion on an offer I was given from a team that's tanking this season that really rubbed me the wrong way. The other owner wanted to send me his Tyreek Hill for the end of the season and then next year I would send him Justin Jefferson from my roster - basically an end of year loan as the price difference between the two. I rejected the idea. It bothers me though that someone else in my league might accept a similar framework of a one year roster improvement for a long term dynasty upgrade without giving up anything in the moment. Personally I think it's close to collusion and ruins the competitive balance of the league.

What do you guys feel about it? Is this something I should nip in the bud rules wise before it becomes a problem or am I over reacting?
 

-OZ-

Footballguy
Trades get completed at the time made and stand alone. No issue with contingent picks (1st if the player finishes top 20 for example)
 

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
Wanted to get the board's opinion on an offer I was given from a team that's tanking this season that really rubbed me the wrong way. The other owner wanted to send me his Tyreek Hill for the end of the season and then next year I would send him Justin Jefferson from my roster - basically an end of year loan as the price difference between the two. I rejected the idea. It bothers me though that someone else in my league might accept a similar framework of a one year roster improvement for a long term dynasty upgrade without giving up anything in the moment. Personally I think it's close to collusion and ruins the competitive balance of the league.

What do you guys feel about it? Is this something I should nip in the bud rules wise before it becomes a problem or am I over reacting?

sounds like roster sharing, which is a textbook definition of collusion

am I not understanding something here?
 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
Wanted to get the board's opinion on an offer I was given from a team that's tanking this season that really rubbed me the wrong way. The other owner wanted to send me his Tyreek Hill for the end of the season and then next year I would send him Justin Jefferson from my roster - basically an end of year loan as the price difference between the two. I rejected the idea. It bothers me though that someone else in my league might accept a similar framework of a one year roster improvement for a long term dynasty upgrade without giving up anything in the moment. Personally I think it's close to collusion and ruins the competitive balance of the league.

What do you guys feel about it? Is this something I should nip in the bud rules wise before it becomes a problem or am I over reacting?

sounds like roster sharing, which is a textbook definition of collusion

am I not understanding something here?
You're not missing anything really. I just got a really hard sell from the guy that included an hour long phone call about the glories of Hill.
 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
In the past I think it was discussed here somewhere, and I was kinda on board with the idea of loaning a player.
For example, if I am out of contention and have Derrick Henry. I want Henry for next year, so rather than trade him he is "loaned" to the highest bidder, then he is automatically returned to my roster at seasons end per league rules.

I can see problems arise, but it was just an idea for a new league wrinkle.
 

joey

Footballguy
Collusion. And perhaps tell all the other owners in your league not to accept an offer like this as it’s collusion. But that might cause a big fight in the league, though.
get it the rules somehow as well, for sure.
 

eighsse2

Footballguy
Wanted to get the board's opinion on an offer I was given from a team that's tanking this season that really rubbed me the wrong way. The other owner wanted to send me his Tyreek Hill for the end of the season and then next year I would send him Justin Jefferson from my roster - basically an end of year loan as the price difference between the two. I rejected the idea. It bothers me though that someone else in my league might accept a similar framework of a one year roster improvement for a long term dynasty upgrade without giving up anything in the moment. Personally I think it's close to collusion and ruins the competitive balance of the league.

What do you guys feel about it? Is this something I should nip in the bud rules wise before it becomes a problem or am I over reacting?
I always thought that would be a neat idea, ***IF THE LEAGUE IMPLEMENTED AN OFFICIAL SYSTEM FOR IT***, but when it's just a handshake situation, that's not okay. There shouldn't be any roster-related agreements made outside of the official system of the league.
 

KingPrawn

Footballguy
It's collusion. Simple as that.

You're not overreacting. Any agreement to send future considerations is collusion in fantasy football, best to my knowledge.
Hopefully you reported it to the commissioner. That's the only way of preventing it from happening with another team. And the guy would not be in the league next year.
 

KingPrawn

Footballguy
In the past I think it was discussed here somewhere, and I was kinda on board with the idea of loaning a player.
For example, if I am out of contention and have Derrick Henry. I want Henry for next year, so rather than trade him he is "loaned" to the highest bidder, then he is automatically returned to my roster at seasons end per league rules.

I can see problems arise, but it was just an idea for a new league wrinkle.
What kind of league would even allow anything remotely close to this? What an absolutely terrible idea and invitations for BIG problems and eventual end to the league.
 

Mister CIA

Footballguy
So had you accepted you get Hill for half a season and in return he gets the rest of Justin Jefferson's career?
 

rockaction

Footballguy
get to keep Hill. He specifically wanted to not get Jefferson until next year for the purpose of tanking.

SUPER DUPER ILLEGAL. And a bad trade for you. Jefferson is worth more than Tyreek Hill in dynasty. It should be Hill and somebody good. I personally wouldn't entertain offers for Jefferson.
 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
get to keep Hill. He specifically wanted to not get Jefferson until next year for the purpose of tanking.

SUPER DUPER ILLEGAL. And a bad trade for you. Jefferson is worth more than Tyreek Hill in dynasty. It should be Hill and somebody good. I personally wouldn't entertain offers for Jefferson.
I'm underselling the trade actually. He wanted Jefferson next year and my 2nd and 3rd for Hill.
He then proceeded to show me the dynasty trade value chart from fantasypros where Jefferson has a "value" of 73 and Hill is 65 as a reason that my team would be much better this season, and there's "only 8 points difference between the two."

Just joined the league this year too.
 

Galileo

Footballguy
It's collusion. Simple as that.

You're not overreacting. Any agreement to send future considerations is collusion in fantasy football, best to my knowledge.
I agree that the situation described by the OP is collusion and should not be allowed. However, the bolded can not be true for dynasty formats. Future draft picks are traded regularly.
 

rockaction

Footballguy
Future draft picks are traded regularly.

Perhaps I didn't word that well. Consideration is a technical term of art in contracts. Future draft picks are considered consideration.

Consideration is giving up something to get something. A contract has three doctrines it must meet.

Is there an offer?
Is there an acceptance?
Is there legal consideration given?
 

Ghost Rider

Footballguy
Like has been said, this is collusion and cheating, and I would let the commish know. And never play in a league with that guy again.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
So had you accepted you get Hill for half a season and in return he gets the rest of Justin Jefferson's career?
I would get to keep Hill. He specifically wanted to not get Jefferson until next year for the purpose of tanking.
If that's the case, why not just trade for Jefferson and then keep him on his bench?

(Don't get me wrong; Hill for Jefferson would still be an unbalanced dynasty trade. It just seems to me the loan element of this trade is unnecessary.)
 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
So had you accepted you get Hill for half a season and in return he gets the rest of Justin Jefferson's career?
I would get to keep Hill. He specifically wanted to not get Jefferson until next year for the purpose of tanking.
If that's the case, why not just trade for Jefferson and then keep him on his bench?

(Don't get me wrong; Hill for Jefferson would still be an unbalanced dynasty trade. It just seems to me the loan element of this trade is unnecessary.)
Well then that would be throwing games and /that's/ clearly cheating.
 

KingPrawn

Footballguy
Offers like this are also racist.
What?
Collusion, cheating, fines, banishment.

Thought I'd just throw in racism.


One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Did you guess which thing was not like the others?
Did you guess which thing just doesn't belong?
If you guessed this one is not like the others,
Then you're absolutely...right!
 

:deadbevo:

Footballguy
Offers like this are also racist.
What?
Collusion, cheating, fines, banishment.

Thought I'd just throw in racism.


One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Did you guess which thing was not like the others?
Did you guess which thing just doesn't belong?
If you guessed this one is not like the others,
Then you're absolutely...right!
That was the point.

I was waiting for someone to recommend lynching.

You know.. because he made a bad trade offer in fantasy football.
 

sushinsky4tsar

Footballguy
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.
 

:deadbevo:

Footballguy
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
You're not friends with twerps and dinks? Aren't you lucky.
 

sushinsky4tsar

Footballguy
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
You're not friends with twerps and dinks? Aren't you lucky.
That's what we title the two divisions in our league.

I have one dynasty league where I know one guy. I have another where I know all 13 and we do a live draft every August. I wouldn't want nonsense like this to fly in either league.

The one where I know everyone since HS and doesn't have that much $$ at stake, I probably just roast the guy in group chat and leave it at that. The other that has some decent money attached to it, I treat as a very real threat and probably want a player like this to find another league if there are viable alternatives. Not sure what the dynamics are of the OP's league, but they cared enough to get the reaction of the Shark Pool.
 

:deadbevo:

Footballguy
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
You're not friends with twerps and dinks? Aren't you lucky.
Yea man.

I mean business with this stuff.

I'm so serious about it I would come to fantasy football message board for advice. I would need the help with big words like collusion and banishment, and threatening to quit a magic football league over it.
 

:deadbevo:

Footballguy
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
You're not friends with twerps and dinks? Aren't you lucky.
That's what we title the two divisions in our league.

I have one dynasty league where I know one guy. I have another where I know all 13 and we do a live draft every August. I wouldn't want nonsense like this to fly in either league.

The one where I know everyone since HS and doesn't have that much $$ at stake, I probably just roast the guy in group chat and leave it at that. The other that has some decent money attached to it, I treat as a very real threat and probably want a player like this to find another league if there are viable alternatives. Not sure what the dynamics are of the OP's league, but they cared enough to get the reaction of the Shark Pool.

We aren't here for reasonable responses dude.
 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
You're not friends with twerps and dinks? Aren't you lucky.
That's what we title the two divisions in our league.

I have one dynasty league where I know one guy. I have another where I know all 13 and we do a live draft every August. I wouldn't want nonsense like this to fly in either league.

The one where I know everyone since HS and doesn't have that much $$ at stake, I probably just roast the guy in group chat and leave it at that. The other that has some decent money attached to it, I treat as a very real threat and probably want a player like this to find another league if there are viable alternatives. Not sure what the dynamics are of the OP's league, but they cared enough to get the reaction of the Shark Pool.
Most of these guys have known each other for a while. I'm the new guy. The buy in is 100 dollars, which isn't going to break me but is a fair sum for magic football.

I don't think my initial post was an unreasonable question. I never said I wanted to break the guy's knees or burn the league to the ground. I wanted the opinion of other magic football nerds about something that I was unsure over. Being the new guy I especially don't want to be the one to leave a turd in the punch bowl.
 

sushinsky4tsar

Footballguy
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
Aside from the fact that it's a terrible proposal for you even in a theoretical league where all-out collusion is allowed.....

What a twerp. He can trade Hill for draft picks like a normal person and actually play honorably. Yeah, he'll proceed to offer those picks up to you in August for Jefferson and quickly get rejected, but at least he won't be cheating the league.

Sometimes, you just have to be thankful that the people trying to orchestrate these deals are always too greedy, expecting you to jump at the chance to jettison Justin Jefferson after this season for the privilege of having both ROS.

They're usually also too stupid to put something together that would actually have plausible deniability.

If the guy is a dink, you have good options for replacement owners, and your commish is good, call it to their attention. Or at least make it clear that you will be leaving the league if you see a trade like this go through.

Seriously these people (usually our friends we decided to play magic football with) are just the worst. No room in this world for greedy fantasy football betting guys.

I would report this league to the DOJ... or Joe... or or... somebody has to do something about this!
You're not friends with twerps and dinks? Aren't you lucky.
That's what we title the two divisions in our league.

I have one dynasty league where I know one guy. I have another where I know all 13 and we do a live draft every August. I wouldn't want nonsense like this to fly in either league.

The one where I know everyone since HS and doesn't have that much $$ at stake, I probably just roast the guy in group chat and leave it at that. The other that has some decent money attached to it, I treat as a very real threat and probably want a player like this to find another league if there are viable alternatives. Not sure what the dynamics are of the OP's league, but they cared enough to get the reaction of the Shark Pool.
Most of these guys have known each other for a while. I'm the new guy. The buy in is 100 dollars, which isn't going to break me but is a fair sum for magic football.

I don't think my initial post was an unreasonable question. I never said I wanted to break the guy's knees or burn the league to the ground. I wanted the opinion of other magic football nerds about something that I was unsure over. Being the new guy I especially don't want to be the one to leave a turd in the punch bowl.
I would probably check with the commish to see if such trades are common for the league. If you don't get the answer you're hoping for, I guess it's up to you to decide if the $100 entry is otherwise worth the price of admission.
 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
It's collusion. Simple as that.

You're not overreacting. Any agreement to send future considerations is collusion in fantasy football, best to my knowledge.
I agree that the situation described by the OP is collusion and should not be allowed. However, the bolded can not be true for dynasty formats. Future draft picks are traded regularly.
But the actual pick (which is the asset) is moved at the time of the deal - that is the consideration.
You get that asset/consideration at the time of the deal (not in the future) and can then proceed to do whatever you want with the pick (i.e. trade it again or hold it).
 
Last edited:

houston

Footballguy
Always something on these boards…..

How would the mechanics even work? I’ll trade you A for nothing today. And in a few months you’ll trade me B for nothing.
 

BassNBrew

IBL Representative
Fantasy rules should prohibit this but it’s really not different than trading for future picks.

Does hill for a 2023 and 2024 1st rounder work and then at the end of the year trade those picks for Jefferson?

The nfl allows trades where the picks are determined by the performance or play time of the traded player.
 

Hankmoody

Footballguy
It all depends on the league rules. Personally I am fine with the concept. "You get something that helps you now, I get something that helps me later". No different than offering up Kamara for Javonte Williams or from trading Hopkins for a 2023 1st round pick.

The problem isn't with the trades, it's because owners aren't creative and don't think about it in those terms. 3-4 owners will get all cranky because all they see is one guy becoming a playoff powerhouse and one gets stacked up for next year but the reality is tons of trades already do just that. No one has an issue with those because they have perspective on them.

I've found that when discussed in advance and worded correctly in the rules layout it's fine with most owners.
 

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