timschochet
Footballguy
what ballistic evidence? All I'm aware of is a second hand report. And Tobias already said that if the guy shot at the policeman he deserved to be killed, so what are you going on about?
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Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Otis
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Of course I'll let the facts play out before coming to a conclusion.
However, I'm not going to let fantasycurse continue to attribute things I didn't say to me- as he just did AGAIN, by saying that "I don't believe the reports" even though I've never said that. It's a horse#### move, one people generally resort to when they can't actually argue with what someone really said. Not only does fantasycurse do this often, he's also too dishonest to just own up to it and apologize.
Dondante
Footballguy
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Fennis
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
OK. I don't think I've been particularly guilty of ignoring this in the past. But still I acknowledge there are times that I have. It doesn't make me wrong now.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
He's going on about a fictional version of me with quotes and ideas that he invented, so he can have an argument he can win instead of discussing what I actually think and say with me directly.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
You're right. It makes you a hypocrite.OK. I don't think I've been particularly guilty of ignoring this in the past. But still I acknowledge there are times that I have. It doesn't make me wrong now.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
You can search tons of sites, below is a quote from ABC News, http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-officer-fatally-shoots-man-st-louis-26062869:
"Ballistic evidence shows Myers fired three shots before his gun jammed, Dotson said. Police said they recovered the 9 mm gun, which had been reported stolen on Sept. 26."
I guess this information from law enforcement isn't sufficient, we should wait for the felon's family to release their findings.
timschochet
Footballguy
Thats a quote from the police chief. I'm not inclined to think he's lying, but because of the controversy he should release the ballistics report to the public instead of describe it/ that's what I meant by second hand. Until the report is released and the proof if what he is saying is evident, I think it's fair to withhold judgment.
kentric
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
in some ways. I'll be much more of one if I ignore the facts next time.You're right. It makes you a hypocrite.OK. I don't think I've been particularly guilty of ignoring this in the past. But still I acknowledge there are times that I have. It doesn't make me wrong now.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Not gonna ignore someone attributing things to me that I didn't say.
But if he lacks the integrity to admit that he did that, I guess I can call it a day and move on.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
As I stated, I think it is important to wait for a non-biased investigation to be conducted by the felon's family. I have a feeling that the family of the guy who was arrested for a felony weapons charge and resisting arrest 3 months ago will provide some eye opening and shocking evidence that this law enforcement officer targeted him for being black and killed him execution style for not sharing his sandwich.
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How do you explain this post?in some ways. I'll be much more of one if I ignore the facts next time.You're right. It makes you a hypocrite.OK. I don't think I've been particularly guilty of ignoring this in the past. But still I acknowledge there are times that I have. It doesn't make me wrong now.
timschochet
Footballguy
i don't see what your sarcasm proves. I also don't understand why you keep bringing up the irrelevant fact that the guy was a felon, or why you called Tobias an "African-American Justice Crusader". None of this has anything to do with anything. Please focus: either this guy had a gun or he didn't. The ballistics report will bear this out. If the police chief is telling the truth, at some point he will release the report and then we'll know. If this fails to happen it will fuel suspicion that the police chief is lying, with justification based on prior events.
None of the other crap you stated matters.
timschochet
Footballguy
it was an attempt at humor based on JoJo's absurd conjecture in the Zimmerman thread. It was based on a post that stated that a policeman shot a guy armed with a sandwich. That's all that had been written about the incident up to that point. I didn't even know if the story was real; I was just trying to be funny.How do you explain this post?in some ways. I'll be much more of one if I ignore the facts next time.You're right. It makes you a hypocrite.OK. I don't think I've been particularly guilty of ignoring this in the past. But still I acknowledge there are times that I have. It doesn't make me wrong now.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
No sarcasm at all... I'm sure the police captain has spent the last 20 years building a career to commit a heinous lie that he knows will be uncovered quickly. I for one say we indict him of perjury, indict the LE officer of first degree murder (maybe tack on a grand larceny charge for stealing a sandwich too), and give all of the protestors a run of Costco for a 10 minute grab bag spree.
You made the (poor) attempt at humor precisely because you rushed to judge instead of doing as you said and letting the facts play out. It would be nice if more people did so, but you are the last person on the planet who should be telling others to wait for the facts.it was an attempt at humor based on JoJo's absurd conjecture in the Zimmerman thread. It was based on a post that stated that a policeman shot a guy armed with a sandwich. That's all that had been written about the incident up to that point. I didn't even know if the story was real; I was just trying to be funny.How do you explain this post?in some ways. I'll be much more of one if I ignore the facts next time.You're right. It makes you a hypocrite.OK. I don't think I've been particularly guilty of ignoring this in the past. But still I acknowledge there are times that I have. It doesn't make me wrong now.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
badge-sniffers ruin America
Bogeys
Footballguy
So how come prior events matter in one case but not the other? Wouldn't both show a pattern of behavior?
kentric
Footballguy
Being pretty harsh here. Tim was just joking around. There were similar posts made around the same time concerning the lethal sandwich.You made the (poor) attempt at humor precisely because you rushed to judge instead of doing as you said and letting the facts play out. It would be nice if more people did so, but you are the last person on the planet who should be telling others to wait for the facts.it was an attempt at humor based on JoJo's absurd conjecture in the Zimmerman thread. It was based on a post that stated that a policeman shot a guy armed with a sandwich. That's all that had been written about the incident up to that point. I didn't even know if the story was real; I was just trying to be funny.How do you explain this post?in some ways. I'll be much more of one if I ignore the facts next time.You're right. It makes you a hypocrite.OK. I don't think I've been particularly guilty of ignoring this in the past. But still I acknowledge there are times that I have. It doesn't make me wrong now.
I say.... Give Timmay a pass on this one.
kentric
Footballguy
We went through the same thing in the Zimmerman thread. While his history may have a bearing on how he would react, Tim is correct that it isn't relevant to the actual event. The question is either did he pull a gun out and shoot at the cop or didn't he. All else is irrelevant.
Wow. Two posts in a row defending Tim. Going to start raining cats and dogs soon.
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Bogeys
Footballguy
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but either both things should be in consideration or neither...picking and chosing is the problem.
Also, the Chief that Tim is prone to think is lying is the St. Louis police chief (according the linked story) and not the one from Ferguson. What has he lied about in relation to this?
timschochet
Footballguy
No Bogeys, you're misquoting me here. I wrote the opposite: that I have NO Reason to believe that the police chief is lying. But I also added that in the event he fails to release the ballistics report, that would then justify that suspicion based on prior events.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Who is this Jeebus fellow you always write about?
Bogeys
Footballguy
Please focus: either this guy had a gun or he didn't. The ballistics report will bear this out. If the police chief is telling the truth, at some point he will release the report and then we'll know. If this fails to happen it will fuel suspicion that the police chief is lying, with justification based on prior events.timschochet said:
The above is what you posted. You are taking prior events into account and giving them weight based on your own personal belief of what needs to happen at the same time that you are telling others not to let prior events color their own perceptions of events.
Also, you never answered....what has the St Louis police chief lied about in relation to this?
ETA: Look, all I am saying is it isn't unreasonable to think that a person that has been arrested recently for weapons charges and resisting would be carrying a gun or would run/resist. Just as it is not unreasonable to assume a public official that has lied in a similar situation recently would lie again. To say that either thing shouldn't be taken into account (admittedly before the facts come out...but speculation is a lot of what we do here) when discussing this isn't logical to me.
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spreagle
Footballguy
I've been confronted by police or game wardens a few times while I had a gun and it never amounted to anything. If the gun isn't visible I immediately tell law enforcment I have a gun (for example I may have a cased hunting shotgun under the backseat if pulled over for burnt out running light), if its visible and I'm holding the gun like when I'm hunting I put it down and walk away from it then show law enforcment my hunting license or whatever they want. All these confrontations were pleasant, at worst all I got a traffic warming, I never attempt to flee and it never turns into a running firefight.
If I ran, I suspect the confrontations would have been very unpleasant and I might be shot at, and if I brandished the weapon I'd probably be shot at.
If I ran, I suspect the confrontations would have been very unpleasant and I might be shot at, and if I brandished the weapon I'd probably be shot at.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Yep.
Police encounter rule number one if carrying: When stopped by police (driving, walking, whatever) keep hands visible and notify them that you're armed in a non threatening manner. The last bit should go without saying, but invariably some mouth breather will screw up that part.
Granted, if this kid was carrying a stolen weapon while on bond from a felony (ie can't carry a weapon, let alone a stolen one), then that could explain the running (and resulting pursuit by the officer).
Most of this is pretty hypothetical at this point though.
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TheWalkmen
Footballguy
I 
the St Louis police. Love seeing them in my neighborhood and I welcome them whole-heartedly.
the St Louis police. Love seeing them in my neighborhood and I welcome them whole-heartedly.
TheWalkmen
Footballguy
More lovely protests and protesters.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/violence-erupts-after-vigil-at-shaw-shooting-scene-in-st/article_84c932e2-00b9-524b-8188-145109d228ac.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/violence-erupts-after-vigil-at-shaw-shooting-scene-in-st/article_84c932e2-00b9-524b-8188-145109d228ac.html
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Mr. Cross
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I personally enjoy the "I can't believe they aren't releasing his name" schtick.
Can't imagine why they would ever withhold that information.
Can't imagine why they would ever withhold that information.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I for one am shocked... Even more shocking is the fact that blacks made up 27 times more arrests for shooting crimes than whites and 9 times more arrests for firearms possessions in New York City.
I mean, nothing odd that for every 1 person that gets arrested amongst one group 27 people get arrested amongst another group. ####### NYPD needs to target these white shooters more and even these numbers out
kentric
Footballguy
Waiting for the "they get arrested 27x more because they are targeted 27x more" post.I for one am shocked... Even more shocking is the fact that blacks made up 27 times more arrests for shooting crimes than whites and 9 times more arrests for firearms possessions in New York City.
I mean, nothing odd that for every 1 person that gets arrested amongst one group 27 people get arrested amongst another group. ####### NYPD needs to target these white shooters more and even these numbers out
At least they didn't shoot him???
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/08/black-teen-mistaken-burglar_n_5954138.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/08/black-teen-mistaken-burglar_n_5954138.html
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
By a police force that is majority minority nonethelessWaiting for the "they get arrested 27x more because they are targeted 27x more" post.I for one am shocked... Even more shocking is the fact that blacks made up 27 times more arrests for shooting crimes than whites and 9 times more arrests for firearms possessions in New York City.
I mean, nothing odd that for every 1 person that gets arrested amongst one group 27 people get arrested amongst another group. ####### NYPD needs to target these white shooters more and even these numbers out
kentric
Footballguy
I find it rather interesting how far the NYC Police application requirements have changed over the years. You used to have to meet certain physical qualifications to be a NYC cop. Now you see people who would lose out in a fight with a 12 year old. This has nothing to do with race, rather, it has to do with a lack of applicants and a desire to broaden the base of applicants.By a police force that is majority minority nonethelessWaiting for the "they get arrested 27x more because they are targeted 27x more" post.I for one am shocked... Even more shocking is the fact that blacks made up 27 times more arrests for shooting crimes than whites and 9 times more arrests for firearms possessions in New York City.
I mean, nothing odd that for every 1 person that gets arrested amongst one group 27 people get arrested amongst another group. ####### NYPD needs to target these white shooters more and even these numbers out
mcintyre1
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml
Combat factual statistics with useless insults, good stuff
Although your propublica (
), is more definitive than government data.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Amazing, isn't it? I mean there can't be more than 5% of the US population that denies that law enforcement discriminates based on race well beyond racial imbalance of criminal activity, and that this is a serious problem. Examples of this bias independent of differences in crime rates are numerous and overwhelming. Yet somehow the few people who don't think this is a problem seem to find each other, in places like this thread and at Cardinals games.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Do you think the NYPD has a question on their application asking if someone is an Uncle Tom?
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml
Did you look at this data, or just dismiss it? Whites are not the majority in this police force. This is pretty much 2+2.
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