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Los Angeles County Teachers on STRIKE! (1 Viewer)

timschochet said:
Please show your work. I don’t believe there is no income verification. 
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When my daughters were in Miami public schools 10 to 20 years ago, a form was completed to qualify for reduced lunch, but we were told that there would be no verification. I read that it wasn't cost effective to verify. Schools subtly encouraged everyone to apply for the reduced lunch. The % on free or reduced lunch is a measure of poverty, but an over-estimate, if things haven't changed.

 
SoBeDad said:
When my daughters were in Miami public schools 10 to 20 years ago, a form was completed to qualify for reduced lunch, but we were told that there would be no verification. I read that it wasn't cost effective to verify. Schools subtly encouraged everyone to apply for the reduced lunch. The % on free or reduced lunch is a measure of poverty, but an over-estimate, if things haven't changed.
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I can’t speak for Miami. But in California the rules are rather strict about who qualifies for free lunches, so I’d be surprised if there was no verification. If it’s true then so be it, but I’d like to see evidence. I looked briefly on the internet but couldn’t find any. 

 
timschochet said:
The average is $67,000 per the Sacramento Bee. In LAUSD, the average is $63,000 but for most areas it’s closer to $55,000. 
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That’s an old number.  You shouldn’t just grab the first thing that pops up on Google without reading further.

It’s currently just under $80K. 

Your statement doesn’t even make sense.  The average is $67K, LAUSD is $63K, but most areas are closer to $55K?  Come on.  Don’t lead with your politics.  We are talking straight math here.

 
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SoBeDad said:
When my daughters were in Miami public schools 10 to 20 years ago, a form was completed to qualify for reduced lunch, but we were told that there would be no verification. I read that it wasn't cost effective to verify. Schools subtly encouraged everyone to apply for the reduced lunch. The % on free or reduced lunch is a measure of poverty, but an over-estimate, if things haven't changed.
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California is the same way.  At least in the areas I have lived.  That’s how you get 80% poverty rates.  Obviously, that’s an inflated number.

 
Ilov80s said:
Sure but California is also a very expensive place to live. That has to be accounted for when discussing pay.
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Sure.  We should also talk about the benefits package.

Teachers in California are compensated very well.  That may not be the case in other states though. 

 
jonessed said:
That’s an old number.  You shouldn’t just grab the first thing that pops up on Google without reading further.

It’s currently just under $80K. 

Your statement doesn’t even make sense.  The average is $67K, LAUSD is $63K, but most areas are closer to $55K?  Come on.  Don’t lead with your politics.  We are talking straight math here.
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LAUSD has outlying areas that are very wealthy which brings the average up. You’re from California, right? So you should know this. The mean for LAUSD is closer to 55k. 

 
timschochet said:
Please show your work. I don’t believe there is no income verification. 
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They verify income for 3% each year. This is done by mail. If they dont respond to the request they just lose the reduced lunches. 

First the district has to try and find out if they qualify though first. So they have to see if the people are enrolled in any of the other programs that make you eligible since responding to the request is considered a burden. 

Also if any of the 3% sample selections turns out to be a migrant family, they dont actually need to verify income. 

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Immigration...legal or not...obviously impacts population.  But it really doesn't matter where these kids are coming from.  They just count as students.  It is up to the district to ensure there are enough classrooms/teachers.
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fair point

then maybe its about money or lack of? 1 in 8 have illegal parents likely means they don't pay into the system ..... that's a lot of money not going into the schools

its part of the problem

"California ranked first in the country when it comes to residents 25 and older who never completed the ninth grade."

https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/20/california-least-educated-census/

I think people undersell the impact of illegally here people ..... from the education point of view, its a definite impact. How much of an impact can be argued, but its an impact.

 
jonessed said:
https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/sa/cefavgsalaries.asp

The average salary of public school teachers in 2016–17 for the State of California was $79,128.
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Thank you. 

You can see, though, according to that chart, that for unified school districts (such as LAUSD) its significantly lower. 

In any case salaries are not really at issue. The teachers at LAUSD demanded a 6.5% raise, the district offered 6%, close enough. The stumbling block, the cause of the strike, is class size. 

 
timschochet said:
LAUSD has outlying areas that are very wealthy which brings the average up. You’re from California, right? So you should know this. The mean for LAUSD is closer to 55k. 
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Plus I am sure there is a seniority and masters pay scale in place as well.

 
Max Power said:
So how does the strike get resolved? LA agrees to smaller class sizes next year?
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They can’t.  The infrastructure doesn’t exist.  Not entirely sure what the teachers really want.  My guess is they will end up settling for more cash in their pockets or benefits concessions.

 
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jonessed said:
They can’t.  The infrastructure doesn’t exist.  Not entirely sure what the teachers really want.  My guess is they will end up settling for more cash in their pockets or benefits concessions.
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I wondered about this as well. The teachers response is that there is enough room, they need to hire more teachers. I don’t know how accurate this is. 

 
timschochet said:
I wondered about this as well. The teachers response is that there is enough room, they need to hire more teachers. I don’t know how accurate this is. 
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I doubt the teachers have a real grasp on how much infrastructure is available.  LAUSD is massive and a lot of the infrastructure is old.

They want more money and they want to take their shot now since the economy is still going strong.  This isn’t about smaller classrooms.

 
jonessed said:
I doubt the teachers have a real grasp on how much infrastructure is available.  LAUSD is massive and a lot of the infrastructure is old.

They want more money and they want to take their shot now since the economy is still going strong.  This isn’t about smaller classrooms.
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Well you say that, and I’m not saying it’s not tru, but they’re not asking about salaries. 

 
Why are conservatives against this strike? The more teachers strike the less people get educated. Seems like a match made in heaven for them.

 
timschochet said:
Well you say that, and I’m not saying it’s not tru, but they’re not asking about salaries. 
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they kinda are.

in addition to smaller class sizes and hiring more full-time librarians and nurses, the union is asking for a 6.5% raise and back pay to July 2016, and the district has offered 6% and back pay to July 2017.

 
Quint said:
they kinda are.

in addition to smaller class sizes and hiring more full-time librarians and nurses, the union is asking for a 6.5% raise and back pay to July 2016, and the district has offered 6% and back pay to July 2017.
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Yeah I noted that but I don’t think they’re striking over .5%. Those numbers are pretty close. 

 
I mean, let’s use jonessed’ number of $80,000 (I still say most of them make less). If it’s about salary then they’re striking over $400 per year, plus about $5,000 in back pay. I mean that makes no sense whatsoever. So I’m inclined to believe this is about class size. 

 
If education was funded appropriately all around our country, this strike and others would not occur. Education hasn’t been funded the way it should be for awhile to the detriment of our society. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
That would make all the talk about how important class size is for the kids become pretty much all BS then. 

So lets hope this isn't how they settle it. 
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Yes and no.

If any district simply cannot (or won't) add more schools/classrooms/teachers and are forced to have high class-size numbers then they need to make sure teachers are paid accordingly.  

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Yes and no.

If any district simply cannot (or won't) add more schools/classrooms/teachers and are forced to have high class-size numbers then they need to make sure teachers are paid accordingly.  
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Right. It's possible they want "fewer changes in pay in exchange for a manageable/easier/enjoyable job by way of smaller classes" but could settle for "more money if you aren't going to help make our jobs more manageable/easier/enjoyable by way of smaller class sizes". It's pretty common for unions to demand changes related to work environment and that's what this would be.

 
dgreen said:
Right. It's possible they want "fewer changes in pay in exchange for a manageable/easier/enjoyable job by way of smaller classes" but could settle for "more money if you aren't going to help make our jobs more manageable/easier/enjoyable by way of smaller class sizes". It's pretty common for unions to demand changes related to work environment and that's what this would be.
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hopefully they actually get something to benefit the students, you know since they are out there carrying signs saying "on strike for our students"

 
timschochet said:
Well you say that, and I’m not saying it’s not tru, but they’re not asking about salaries. 
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They certainly did.  It’s part of the same contract.  It seems they have reached an agreement on that portion though.  At least that’s my understanding.  Nothing is set in stone until the contract is done though.

 
timschochet said:
I mean, let’s use jonessed’ number of $80,000 (I still say most of them make less). If it’s about salary then they’re striking over $400 per year, plus about $5,000 in back pay. I mean that makes no sense whatsoever. So I’m inclined to believe this is about class size. 
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It’s not my number.  It’s the California Department of Education’s number.  Why do you think they are lying?

 
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jonessed said:
timschochet said:
I mean, let’s use jonessed’ number of $80,000 (I still say most of them make less). If it’s about salary then they’re striking over $400 per year, plus about $5,000 in back pay. I mean that makes no sense whatsoever. So I’m inclined to believe this is about class size. 
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It’s not my number.  It’s the California Department of Education’s number.  Why do you think they are lying?
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You're both wrong, it's $33,200

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-07-02/news/mn-5165_1_teacher-salaries

 
timschochet said:
Lol at double. At the most it’s 2.4% more, depending on how long you stick it out as a teacher. 

https://ed100.org/lessons/pensions
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Ummmm....you do not comprehend numbers well.   Look at the graph towards the middle of the article.  The yellow/orange indicate the value of the pension on top of salary.  It typically is adding about 25 percent, but for the years around thirty it more than doubles their salary and in one year it triples it.   It is a sweet deal which will eventually drive tax rates in California even higher than their current high tax rate.  

 
jon_mx said:
Ummmm....you do not comprehend numbers well.   Look at the graph towards the middle of the article.  The yellow/orange indicate the value of the pension on top of salary.  It typically is adding about 25 percent, but for the years around thirty it more than doubles their salary and in one year it triples it.   It is a sweet deal which will eventually drive tax rates in California even higher than their current high tax rate.  
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Well I sure hope you’re right, but I know you’re not because my wife was a teacher and she’s close to retirement and I know we’re not getting near that. 

 
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