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Making a Case that Peyton Manning (1 Viewer)

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Those that have followed my comments over the years should know by now that I have strongly been against drafting a QB in the first round in a 12-team redraft, start 1 QB, close to standard scoring leagues. Up until now, I have basically said never, ever, not ever, draft a QB in the first round. Not ever. Never. (And remember, these comments are intended for REDRAFT leagues where you must DECLARE who your starting QB is each week.)

The rationale was that most of the time, people looked at huge seasons in the prior year and then felt that those numbers would magically reappear in the upcoming season. Sadly, statistical history has shown that rarely do QBs post uber-elite numbers in back-to-back seasons. And with leagues only utlizing 12 QB, the value just would not be there in Year 2 even if the same QB did well (but not as well as the year before).

Last year, people went crazy over Peyton Manning, and some advocated taking him in the Top 5, Top 3, and even #1 overall. I attempted to talk people off of the ledge all off-season, as some people felt that Manning would again make a run at 50 TD and would lap the field of fantasy QB. And we know how that turned out.

Here we are a year later, and I have been looking at the crop of QB this year and am almost ready to suggest that Peyton Manning would make a decent late first round pick. (By the way, that for me is WAY earlier than I would EVER suggest taking a QB.) And here's why.

If you look at the 31 teams other than the Colts, most of them have QB that sudedenly have a fair amount of questions surrounding them. I broke things down into four categories: Guys with Injury Concerns, Players with New Teams, Coaches, or Systems, QB that are Mostly Unproven, and Players on Teams that Lost Key Players on Offense or Have Other Guys Injured. I slotted QB into the most applicable groups, although certainly some of them could be listed in more than one category and some have more concerns than others.

GUYS WITH INJURY CONCERNS:

Palmer, Cuulpepper, Roethlisberger, Brees, Pennington, Grossman

PLAYERS WITH NEW TEAMS, COACHES, OR SYSTEMS:

Green, Brooks, McNair, Carr, Kitna, Johnson, Bulger

QB THAT ARE MOSTLY UNPROVEN:

Simms, Frye, Rivers, Volek, Smith, Losman

PLAYERS ON TEAMS THAT LOST KEY PLAYERS OR HAVE OTHER GUYS WITH INJURIES:

McNabb, Brady, Hasselbeck, Leftwich, Favre

Adding that up, that 24 QB out of 31 other starters. Of course, not all of them will suffer dire consequences to their production (some in fact will likely benefit), but the fact remains that many of them come with some pretty big question marks.

IMO, that leaves only Peyton and Eli Manning, Bledsoe, Delhomme, Plummer, Vick, Warner, and Brunell as guys without limited issues (or in better situations than last year) just from the get go.

And I would be inclined to say that Warner has his own health issues and the addition of Edgerrin James will greatly reduce his number of passing attempts, so he probably is a candidate to be crossed off the list.

That's not a whole lot of players left over that you can feel confident in inserting them into the lineup and not have to worry about.

Looking at Peyton Manning, the loss of Edge *COULD* help his passing numbers, as I personally feel that replacing James and his production will be harder to accomplish on the field than it seems to be on paper. Also, the Colts in the past decade have struggled to have back to back solid seasons defensively, and if the defense drops off even a little, Manning could at a minimum be looking at more passing attempts this year.

Looking at the Colts schedule, one has to wonder if that, too, will force IND to throw the ball more (Road games at NYG, DEN, NE, DAL, and JAC with out of conference home games against CIN, PHI, WAS, and MIA.)

For those that are RB crazed, there does seem to be a ton of RB that can be had 3rd round or later this year (Parker, KJones, Lewis, Droughns, Taylor, Dunn, AGreen, Martin and Bush/Deuce, Dillon/Maroney, Jones/Benson, Bell/Dayne, Foster/Williams, Addai/Rhodes, Brown/White, Gore/Barlow based on current ADP). In the past, RB seemed to be hoarded more in the early going, and that trend may be changing, allowing people to still get decent RB production later on for a change.

As I see it, those extra attempts, yards, and TD many be enough to finally get Peyton Manning to rank as the #1 fantasy QB (surprisingly, he's NEVER ranked #1 in the FBG scoring system--9,4,3,3,4,2,2,3 over the years). And with a lot of questions surrounding many other QB, there may be enough value in scoring differential to make Manning actually WORTH taking him early this year.

So for redraft leagues, the security of simply putting Mannig in at QB without having to worry about all these other QB issues may for once be worth considering. And for those drafting in the end of Round 1, with the choice being taking a shot in the dark at any of a bucket of secord tier RB, guessing amoung 7-8 top WR, or Manning, there may actually be less risk in taking Manning.

Clearly, utilizing the strategy of waiting on QB and selecting several in the middle rounds is ALWAYS and option, and that still may be the way to go. But there may also be additional value in taking those middle round picks and stocking up depth at other positions.

Manning may also be available in the second or third rounds in your league, so having an idea of where he normally goes is also something to be aware of. You may elect not to take Manning early, but IMO he has an excellent chance to represent first round positional value this season.

Anyway, that's just a thought I had and one I will continue to ponder. Feel free to chime in and agree or disagree on this one.

 
Manning may also be available in the second or third rounds in your league, so having an idea of where he normally goes is also something to be aware of. You may elect not to take Manning early, but IMO he has an excellent chance to represent first round positional value this season.
that's a key for me right there. I wouldn't take him in the 1st, but I could look at him in the 2nd, which is way earlier than i usually even think about taking a QB. looking at my projections right now, there's Manning, and then a huge group all within 1-2 ppg of each other. While that may not look any better from a static worst starter baseline point of view, if he's consistently outscoring 6-8 other QBs by that amount instead of 2 or 3, it starts to look a lot better.

interesting post Dave :thumbup:

 
decent argument. in my mind, it all comes down to your projections and the VBD anaylsis, though -- presumably the question marks about the other QBs translate into lower projections for the year.

one question, though -- why is brady in the "lost key players or other guys with injuries" bucket? he seems like a pretty safe bet to me...

 
PLAYERS ON TEAMS THAT LOST KEY PLAYERS OR HAVE OTHER GUYS WITH INJURIES:

McNabb, Brady, Hasselbeck, Leftwich, Favre
Don't you think the loss of edge should put P. Manning on this list?
 
decent argument. in my mind, it all comes down to your projections and the VBD anaylsis, though -- presumably the question marks about the other QBs translate into lower projections for the year.

one question, though -- why is brady in the "lost key players or other guys with injuries" bucket? he seems like a pretty safe bet to me...
Lost a starting lineman to Seattle (Ashworth) and David Givens to Tennessee. The Pats have Branch and limited options at WR (Jackson, Caldwell, and Troy Brown) that are hardly top receiving options at this point. Other bit players left town (Fauria at TE, Dwight/Davis/Johnson at WR) that may not matter much. Dillon also has a lot of questions in terms of health and how much he has left in the tank (thus why they took Maroney).Unrelated to those player changes, without the massive injuries to the defense, the OL, and the RB corps, there is a very good chance the Pats will run more and pass less, especially if the team does not allow 30 points a game like the first part of last year. If you look at Brady's other seasons, his numbers did take a big jump last year, and his years as the #9-11 QB range might be a better place to slot him. I'm sure that the Pats hope he doesn't need to throw as much this year.

Certainly not a terrible pick, but IMO Brady's not the #2 QB again this year. His ranking shot up due to situation reasons last year, and I don't see those circumstances repeating themselves again this year.

 
PLAYERS ON TEAMS THAT LOST KEY PLAYERS OR HAVE OTHER GUYS WITH INJURIES:

McNabb, Brady, Hasselbeck, Leftwich, Favre
Don't you think the loss of edge should put P. Manning on this list?
Yes. But in Manning's case, that will likely INCREASE his passing opportunities.
 
Nice job, but I would rank Brady in the elite QB category (or those "without significant issues") and place Warner in the "injury risk" category.

 
It would be nice if you could dig up that thread from last season where you were saying Manning would never be worth a first round pick.

I ended up with #6 overall in my favorite league, and after Tomlinson, Alexander, Holmes, Edge and McAllister were gone, I felt I had to take Manning. It was either that or an RB in the range of Westbrook/McGahee/DD, etc. And I thought I could do better going with Manning. Boy was I wrong. First time I've ever missed the playoffs in that league. I finished 9th place. Manning was strong for me in the second half, but he was almost single-handedly the reason for my starting 0-5 and killing any chance at the playoffs.

 
Nice job, but I would rank Brady in the elite QB category (or those "without significant issues") and place Warner in the "injury risk" category.
I was thinking the samething. I just have one comment. When you say this:

IMO, that leaves only Peyton and Eli Manning, Bledsoe, Delhomme, Plummer, Vick, Warner, and Brunell as guys without limited issues (or in better situations than last year) just from the get go.
I don't see how Warner is in a better situation this year than last year. Last year he was the clear cut starter. This year they drafted Lienart who could easily take the job from him before the season starts. I'm not saying its going to happen, but its a strong possiblility. Just my thoughts though.Good post David.

 
Nice job, but I would rank Brady in the elite QB category (or those "without significant issues") and place Warner in the "injury risk" category.
I was thinking the samething. I just have one comment. When you say this:

IMO, that leaves only Peyton and Eli Manning, Bledsoe, Delhomme, Plummer, Vick, Warner, and Brunell as guys without limited issues (or in better situations than last year) just from the get go.
I don't see how Warner is in a better situation this year than last year. Last year he was the clear cut starter. This year they drafted Lienart who could easily take the job from him before the season starts. I'm not saying its going to happen, but its a strong possiblility. Just my thoughts though.Good post David.
If you look at the paragraph just after the one you mentioned, I suggested taking Warner off the list. There were only 8 guys that in the first pass did not initially slot into one of the 4 categories. I would put him in the "guys with limited issue" part of the statement, but certainly he does have issues.As I side note, I have seen/heard that the plan in Arizona was to go with Warner provided he is healthy and Leinart will hold the clipboard. Of course, we all know that Warner has a history of getting banged up, so there's still a decent chance Leinart makes it into the lineup.

 
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I think he's worth a late first rounder. He'll probably throw more TDs this year with Edge gone. But I always catch flack in the shark pool because I hate drafting 2 RBs in the first 2 rounds.

 
Very :goodposting: , David.

I agree. What I want with my first round pick is almost guaranteed stud production. After the 1st 5 RBs are off the board, the next tier of guys (Jordan, Jackson, R Brown, R Johnson, Edge, Cadillac) ALL have question marks. I don't want my 1st round pick to be a question mark. This is the year where Manning might lap the QB field...so his value should be extremely high. So I believe Manning is a legit 1st round pick, especially in smaller leagues.

Also, once you secured Manning, you don't need to worry about the QB position for quite a while. Your next 8-9 picks would be focused on RBs, WRs, and a starting TE.

If there ever is a year to get a QB in the 1st round, this is it.

 
It would be nice if you could dig up that thread from last season where you were saying Manning would never be worth a first round pick.

I ended up with #6 overall in my favorite league, and after Tomlinson, Alexander, Holmes, Edge and McAllister were gone, I felt I had to take Manning. It was either that or an RB in the range of Westbrook/McGahee/DD, etc. And I thought I could do better going with Manning. Boy was I wrong. First time I've ever missed the playoffs in that league. I finished 9th place. Manning was strong for me in the second half, but he was almost single-handedly the reason for my starting 0-5 and killing any chance at the playoffs.
Sorry to hear that your team didn't do well, but I suspect that there were other issues other than just Manning. As it turns out, Manning certainly was not worth a Top 6 pick, and even this year I wouldn't take him there. I am looking more for teams drafting near the turn in serpentine drafts.For example, if you have the #11 or #12 pick and 10 RB have come off the board, your choices basically are taking a RB ranked in the double digits, taking the first or second WR off of the board, or Manning (or for the truly insane Gates unless your league gives TE a huge scoring advantage).

WR as a position work pretty similar to QB in most seasons. Unless there are one or two WR that greatly outscore the second tier of WR, in 0 PPR leagues, the top WR may or may not represent first round value. And figuring out who the #1 WR will be from year to year has proven difficult in recent years (Smith, Muhammad, Moss, Harrison the last few years).

Looking at the top guys this time around, Smith has Keyshawn and the Panthers running game to contend with (which had massive injuries in 04 and 05), Chad Johnson has a banged up Carson Palmer to deal with. Fitzgerald is bound to see fewer passes with Edge on the Cards. Randy Moss has been banged up the past few years and has a new QB and a new system to look forward to. Holt is in a new system that should emphasize the run a lot more. Santana Moss now has several other WR to take away targets. Galloway will be hard pressed to best his career year. Harrison is no longer an etched in stone Top 5 WR. Owens has a lot of issues and already has been told he will not see the ball as much in the past.

So no matter what, players in the 11 or 12 hole will have some fishing to do--either at RB or guessing which WR will be at the top of the food chain.

IMO, Manning may or may not be the play at this stage of a draft (and I'm not saying he is the best choice), but given what we do know about Manning and what we don't know about how some of the other QB or don't know about the remaining RB or WR, Manning should at least be an option this year where in the past he probably should not have been.

 
Nice job, but I would rank Brady in the elite QB category (or those "without significant issues") and place Warner in the "injury risk" category.
I was thinking the samething. I just have one comment. When you say this:

IMO, that leaves only Peyton and Eli Manning, Bledsoe, Delhomme, Plummer, Vick, Warner, and Brunell as guys without limited issues (or in better situations than last year) just from the get go.
I don't see how Warner is in a better situation this year than last year. Last year he was the clear cut starter. This year they drafted Lienart who could easily take the job from him before the season starts. I'm not saying its going to happen, but its a strong possiblility. Just my thoughts though.Good post David.
If you look at the paragraph just after the one you mentioned, I suggested taking Warner off the list. There were only 8 guys that in the furst pass did not initially slot into one of the 4 categories. I would put him in the "guys with limited issue" part of the statement, but certainly he does have issues.As I side note, I have seen/heard that the plan in Arizona was to go with Warner provided he is healthy and Leinart will hold the clipboard. Of course, we all know that Warner has a history of getting banged up, so there's still a decent chance Leinart makes it into the lineup.
Ooops, i guess i skipped over that paragraph. Sorry about that David.
 
If you look at the 31 teams other than the Colts, most of them have QB that sudedenly have a fair amount of questions surrounding them. I broke things down into four categories: Guys with Injury Concerns, Players with New Teams, Coaches, or Systems, QB that are Mostly Unproven, and Players on Teams that Lost Key Players on Offense or Have Other Guys Injured. I slotted QB into the most applicable groups, although certainly some of them could be listed in more than one category and some have more concerns than others.

GUYS WITH INJURY CONCERNS:

Palmer, Cuulpepper, Roethlisberger, Brees, Pennington, Grossman

PLAYERS WITH NEW TEAMS, COACHES, OR SYSTEMS:

Green, Brooks, McNair, Carr, Kitna, Johnson, Bulger

QB THAT ARE MOSTLY UNPROVEN:

Simms, Frye, Rivers, Volek, Smith, Losman

PLAYERS ON TEAMS THAT LOST KEY PLAYERS OR HAVE OTHER GUYS WITH INJURIES:

McNabb, Brady, Hasselbeck, Leftwich, Favre
Where do I begin. Yudkin, normally you are spot on, but you are suffering some temporary insanity, much like Wood did last year advocating Manning in the 1st round. You should not take a QB in the first 8 rounds let alone maybe taking one in the top 3 or the 1st. Where you have gone wrong with the majority of your analysis is that regardless of various questions that are out there, 2006 will not be statistically different than any other year. If you look at average production by position, players will drop into line. Maybe you think that since you don't know who they will be that adds risk to other players. While possibly true you are hitting the problem with the wrong answer. The answer is not to grab Manning earlier, but to grab the players in question later.Furthermore, many of the issues you bring up are not issues at all (i.e. QBs going to other teams) as some are in better situations than they were last year. This is where you use some people's uncertainty to your advantage by doing good projections not just based on year n-1.

Bottom line, we have these same questions every year, and every year it is wrong to take Manning in the first.

Adding that up, that 24 QB out of 31 other starters. Of course, not all of them will suffer dire consequences to their production (some in fact will likely benefit), but the fact remains that many of them come with some pretty big question marks.

IMO, that leaves only Peyton and Eli Manning, Bledsoe, Delhomme, Plummer, Vick, Warner, and Brunell as guys without limited issues (or in better situations than last year) just from the get go.
Brunell with limited issues? I think you have some QBs with issues mixed up with QBs who do not have issues. I'd be shocked if Brunell played the entire season.
And I would be inclined to say that Warner has his own health issues and the addition of Edgerrin James will greatly reduce his number of passing attempts, so he probably is a candidate to be crossed off the list.
Agree, but that is mitigated by handcuffing and/or drafting using PPG as a benchmark, which is much more effective.
That's not a whole lot of players left over that you can feel confident in inserting them into the lineup and not have to worry about.
This is no different than any other year and many of the players with "issues" I wouldn't worry about at all. You can list an issue with anyone (including Manning) from year to year. Bottom line, you have a baseline of performance with many of these QBs to give you an idea of where they will perform at. And by drafting them in the 10th+ round you are getting a more than appropriate price on your draft pick.
Looking at Peyton Manning, the loss of Edge *COULD* help his passing numbers, as I personally feel that replacing James and his production will be harder to accomplish on the field than it seems to be on paper. Also, the Colts in the past decade have struggled to have back to back solid seasons defensively, and if the defense drops off even a little, Manning could at a minimum be looking at more passing attempts this year.
Then again it could not.
Looking at the Colts schedule, one has to wonder if that, too, will force IND to throw the ball more (Road games at NYG, DEN, NE, DAL, and JAC with out of conference home games against CIN, PHI, WAS, and MIA.)
There is no statistical evidence showing that a defense in year n is a good indicator of a good defense in year n+1. This assumption is faulty.
For those that are RB crazed, there does seem to be a ton of RB that can be had 3rd round or later this year (Parker, KJones, Lewis, Droughns, Taylor, Dunn, AGreen, Martin and Bush/Deuce, Dillon/Maroney, Jones/Benson, Bell/Dayne, Foster/Williams, Addai/Rhodes, Brown/White, Gore/Barlow based on current ADP). In the past, RB seemed to be hoarded more in the early going, and that trend may be changing, allowing people to still get decent RB production later on for a change.
While it may seem this way, nothing has changed. The only thing that has changed is that people overvalue too many marginal RBs based on hype or potential and do not do accurate projections in line with AVT. While there will be a few RBs who will be value in the 4th-6th rounds, those are the kind of RBs you want as #3, not #2. Many of the rookie RBs you list will disappoint if you look at history. There are much better alternatives in the 3rd-5th rounds to rookie RBs (i.e. WRs who are in much more limited supply than the fantasy community as a whole believes).
As I see it, those extra attempts, yards, and TD many be enough to finally get Peyton Manning to rank as the #1 fantasy QB (surprisingly, he's NEVER ranked #1 in the FBG scoring system--9,4,3,3,4,2,2,3 over the years). And with a lot of questions surrounding many other QB, there may be enough value in scoring differential to make Manning actually WORTH taking him early this year.
Just because he is the #1 QB doesn't mean he should be taken in the first round. Maybe you missed VBD 101 that day...and if VBD is telling you to take Manning then, well that tells you all you need to know about VBD.
So for redraft leagues, the security of simply putting Mannig in at QB without having to worry about all these other QB issues may for once be worth considering. And for those drafting in the end of Round 1, with the choice being taking a shot in the dark at any of a bucket of secord tier RB, guessing amoung 7-8 top WR, or Manning, there may actually be less risk in taking Manning.
While there is less risk, you have mitigated so much upside by not taking a RB in the first round that the return you get in terms of points will not be enough for you to win consistantly, pending some miraculous value that saves you throughout the draft. This is the same argument people made last year after Manning came off his record season. That it was safer. Meanwhile Carson Palmer who you could have drafted in the 9th round gave you better production.
Clearly, utilizing the strategy of waiting on QB and selecting several in the middle rounds is ALWAYS and option, and that still may be the way to go. But there may also be additional value in taking those middle round picks and stocking up depth at other positions.

Manning may also be available in the second or third rounds in your league, so having an idea of where he normally goes is also something to be aware of. You may elect not to take Manning early, but IMO he has an excellent chance to represent first round positional value this season.

Anyway, that's just a thought I had and one I will continue to ponder. Feel free to chime in and agree or disagree on this one.
There is no case to be made. The majority of your hypothetical argument to take Manning is based on rationalization and faulty assumptions. It is a bad pick plain and simple in terms of maximizing your draft to draft the best team. If you are so risk averse that you do not want or cannot determine what late round QBs should be taken based on the value they have, you shouldn't play fantasy football because once you have drafted the almighty safe pick of Manning, how can you possibly fathom the uncertainty that the coming rounds will bring.But please pick him, because that just allows value to drop to me.

 
Where you have gone wrong with the majority of your analysis is that regardless of various questions that are out there, 2006 will not be statistically different than any other year. If you look at average production by position, players will drop into line.
The top QB in 2005 had 318 FPs. The top QB in 2004 had 433 FPs. The top QB in 1998 had 422 FPs (in 15 games). The top QB in in 1997 had 342 FPs.Your assumption that every year is statistically similar to every other year is way off. There is no constant line for the top QB (or top RB, or top WR) to fall into.
 
DY - PLEASE put down that cup of coffee (or whatever was put in there)

This thread may elicit some interesting feedback but anyone who has tried it :bag: or watched someone else in their league try it :eek: knows that you will never catch up in RB & WR points.

In addition the relative value is horrible when you can get a Hasselbeck, Brady, Bulger or Eli in the sixth or seventh rounds.

 
DY - PLEASE put down that cup of coffee (or whatever was put in there)

This thread may elicit some interesting feedback but anyone who has tried it :bag: or watched someone else in their league try it :eek: knows that you will never catch up in RB & WR points.

In addition the relative value is horrible when you can get a Hasselbeck, Brady, Bulger or Eli in the sixth or seventh rounds.
Sure you can catch up. There are always several good RBs and WRs in the middle and later rounds. It worked for me last year (although Larry Johnson deserves a good bit of credit).
 
DY - PLEASE put down that cup of coffee (or whatever was put in there)

This  thread may elicit some interesting feedback but anyone who has tried it  :bag:   or watched someone else in their league try it  :eek:   knows that you will never catch up in RB & WR points.

In addition the relative value is horrible when you can get a Hasselbeck, Brady, Bulger or Eli in the sixth or seventh rounds.
Sure you can catch up. There are always several good RBs and WRs in the middle and later rounds. It worked for me last year (although Larry Johnson deserves a good bit of credit).
:goodposting: In one league last year I went with Manning in the first round - top 6 pick - and ended up post-season in the third place, beaten in the semi's by LJ.

Worked just fine for me -- if Duece hadn't gone down with an injury, I might not have lost in that last game.

Like others. I agree Manning is in no way a top 6 pick, but at the turn? I think there is plenty of depth to grab other sharp players. Once you miss the top RB studs, you can think about other postions. You just need to account for it and draft good depth to make up for it later.

 
Looking at seasons after the fact, here are the QB that produced first round value numbers (regardless of where they were taken).

2005 None

2004 Culpepper, Manning

2003 None

2002 None

2001 Warner, Garcia

2000 Culpepper, Garcia, Manning, Gannon

1999 Warner, Beuerlein

1998 Young, Favre, Cunningham

1997 Favre, Stewart

1996 Favre, Testaverde, Brunell, Blake

Those guys all rank Top 12 in value in those season (or first round pick value wise vs players in all positions).

In recent years, there have not been as many guys on the list if not for the simple fact that the pack of QB overall has produced a dozen decent QB each year (with the exception being the lights out numbers put up by Culpepper and Manning in 2004). Last year was a very poor year for Top QB production:

#1 QB scoring total:

2005: 318 points

2004: 433

2003: 329

2002: 362

2001: 370

2000: 402

1999: 384

1998: 422

1997: 342

1996: 364

While I agree that the age old strategy of waiting on QBs will never go out of style, if Manning were to post numbers similar to what the #1 QB NORMALLY scores while the rest of the QB pool scores close to what they did last year, Manning would be in line with a huge season value scoring wise.

Given all the QB with potential issues, I do not think that is unreasonable to suggest that the QB pack as a whole will score similar to last year. Of the guys I listed off with issues, there are likely not 5 guys that I see in line to do exceedingly better to create 11 other QB to raise the scoring baseline for the Top 12. Yes, obviously some guys will do better (Brooks, Kitna, probably Carr, etc.), but as a whole I don't think we see a radical shift in scoring given the landscape.

In theory, if Manning had to play 16 games for once that mattered, the team struggled some rushing the ball, the tough schedule they will face causes them to stay in ballgames all 60 minutes, etc. and Manning were to put up another 600 passing yards and 10 TD (certainly he's shown he can produce at that level), Manning would add 70 points to what he did last year. That would again put him back in the Top 12 based on positional value. And if the pack of QB actual do slightly worse than last year (again, that one is extremely debatable), then he will rank Top 5 in value.

As I mentioned last year, a lot depends on how you want to project the players as to who holds what value.

I'd probably still look RB at the turn, as there will almost certainly be guys I have as Top 10 RB still on the board that I would want to pick. But I still think Manning will end up ranking as a first rounder based on positional value.

Whether you can get him later than that is another thing, and how well the QB you can get in Round 9 will do is also debatable. In this year in particular, I believe Manning will finally get a chance to outperform many other QBs.

Maybe the right play here is to consider Manning with a 2nd or 3rd round pick, and if people got scared off last year he could fall that far.

As for picking from RB ranked in the teens, I can't prove it but I think a fair amount of them don't perform as RB1s. I am not sure what the impact of not drafting a RB has when the RB you would have taken would not have met expectations anyway, but I think in the long run it may hurt a fantasy team trying to come up with other options. (I went over this last year in other threads and played the catch up game for teams trying to make up the scoring difference, and I believe it required hitting on a better % of RB than normal.)

Again, I'm not conluding that Manning = #11 or #12 pick, I'm only suggesting that he may creep into the decision making process and could be a consideration.

 
DY - PLEASE put down that cup of coffee (or whatever was put in there)

This thread may elicit some interesting feedback but anyone who has tried it :bag: or watched someone else in their league try it :eek: knows that you will never catch up in RB & WR points.

In addition the relative value is horrible when you can get a Hasselbeck, Brady, Bulger or Eli in the sixth or seventh rounds.
Sure you can catch up. There are always several good RBs and WRs in the middle and later rounds. It worked for me last year (although Larry Johnson deserves a good bit of credit).
:goodposting: In one league last year I went with Manning in the first round - top 6 pick - and ended up post-season in the third place, beaten in the semi's by LJ.

Worked just fine for me -- if Duece hadn't gone down with an injury, I might not have lost in that last game.

Like others. I agree Manning is in no way a top 6 pick, but at the turn? I think there is plenty of depth to grab other sharp players. Once you miss the top RB studs, you can think about other postions. You just need to account for it and draft good depth to make up for it later.
The key is to make up for it in the later rounds. People will shy away from RBBC RBs, but any starting RB, whether he's in an RBBC or not will have value. In many cases they'll be just as good, if not better than late 1st and 2nd round RBs. The late 1st round and 2nd round RBs were a mess last year. K Jones, J Jones, Deuce, Ahman, McGahee, Bell, JLewis. I'd rather take a bunch of "upside" RBs in later rounds and hope that they stick. I want more of a proven commodity in the 1st and 2nd round.
 
Where you have gone wrong with the majority of your analysis is that regardless of various questions that are out there, 2006 will not be statistically different than any other year.  If you look at average production by position, players will drop into line. 
The top QB in 2005 had 318 FPs. The top QB in 2004 had 433 FPs. The top QB in 1998 had 422 FPs (in 15 games). The top QB in in 1997 had 342 FPs.Your assumption that every year is statistically similar to every other year is way off. There is no constant line for the top QB (or top RB, or top WR) to fall into.
I am well aware of QB1's production over the years. I am not talking about one player at one position. I am talking about players down the line and to average the production within that positional rank. Over the course of the draft players fall into line closer and closer to historical production.Yes the #1 QB fluctuates the most (because he scores the most points) but there is a trendline of production.

By projecting more RBs to have 1,000 yard seasons than what will occur gives you the illusion that there is RB depth when in reality there is not.

 
I'm picking at the turn in a 10-team money league, and thinking I should get certainty, in the form of two slam dunk certain studs at non-RB positions, rather than risking the year on Ronnie Brown and Caddy Williams, when I can risk the year on Warrick Dunn and Rueben Droughs (or, heaven help me, Ron Dayne) at the turn in rounds 3/4.

I'm leaning towards two WRs, (Holt and TO are my choices) rather than Peyt, because I think its easierer to find a competitive QB1 in the late rounds than a competitive WR1. Easier to catch a Bledsoe than a Steve Smith.

I also think that taking two WRs at the corner might begin a WR run in the draft in the second round. If that happens, then there will be two or more RBs available when I swing around in round three.

 
DY - PLEASE put down that cup of coffee (or whatever was put in there)

This  thread may elicit some interesting feedback but anyone who has tried it  :bag:   or watched someone else in their league try it  :eek:   knows that you will never catch up in RB & WR points.

In addition the relative value is horrible when you can get a Hasselbeck, Brady, Bulger or Eli in the sixth or seventh rounds.
Sure you can catch up. There are always several good RBs and WRs in the middle and later rounds. It worked for me last year (although Larry Johnson deserves a good bit of credit).
You can, but why are you putting yourself in a position to play catch up after one round?I drafted Larry Johnson last year as well as my 3rd RB.

 
From Rotoworld Mock Industry Draft - 12 teams, ppr

1.01 (1) – FantasyFootball.com - Larry Johnson, Chiefs RB

1.02 (2) – RotoWorld.com - LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers RB

1.03 (3) – Footballguys - Shaun Alexander, Seahawks RB

1.04 (4) – Football Injuries - Tiki Barber, Giants RB

1.05 (5) – SportingNews - Clinton Portis, Redskins RB

1.06 (6) – FFToday - LaMont Jordan, Raiders RB

1.07 (7) – Draft Sharks - Ronnie Brown, Dolphins RB

1.08 (8) – Gridiron Grumblings - Edgerrin James, Cardinals RB

1.09 (9) – FoxFantasy - Steven Jackson, Rams RB

1.10 (10) – The Huddle - Carnell Williams, Bucs RB

1.11 (11) – KFFL - Brian Westbrook, Eagles RB

1.12 (12) – The Guru Report - Domanick Davis, Texans RB

2.01 (13) – The Guru Report - Steve Smith, Panthers WR

2.02 (14) – KFFL - Rudi Johnson, Bengals RB

2.03 (15) – The Huddle - Willis McGahee, Bills RB

2.04 (16) – FoxFantasy - Reuben Droughns, Browns RB

2.05 (17) – Gridiron Grumblings - Torry Holt, Rams WR

2.06 (18) – Draft Sharks - Randy Moss, Raiders WR

2.07 (19) – FFToday - Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals WR

2.08 (20) – SportingNews - Chester Taylor, Vikings RB

2.09 (21) – Football Injuries - Julius Jones, Cowboys RB

2.10 (22) – Footballguys - Chad Johnson, Bengals WR

2.11 (23) – RotoWorld.com - Terrell Owens, Cowboys WR

2.12 (24) – FantasyFootball.com - Anquan Boldin, Cardinals WR

3.01 (25) – FantasyFootball.com - Deuce McAllister, Saints RB

3.02 (26) – RotoWorld.com - Kevin Jones, Lions RB

3.03 (27) – Footballguys - Antonio Gates, Chargers TE

3.04 (28) – Football Injuries - Marvin Harrison, Colts WR

3.05 (29) – SportingNews - Hines Ward, Steelers WR

3.06 (30) – FFToday - Corey Dillon, Patriots RB

3.07 (31) – Draft Sharks - Jamal Lewis, Ravens RB

3.08 (32) – Gridiron Grumblings - Willie Parker, Steelers RB

3.09 (33) – FoxFantasy - Tatum Bell, Broncos RB

3.10 (34) – The Huddle - Peyton Manning, Colts QB

3.11 (35) – KFFL - Warrick Dunn, Falcons RB

3.12 (36) – FantasyGuru - Reggie Bush, Saints RB

4.01 (37) – FantasyGuru - Chris Chambers, Dolphins WR

4.02 (38) – KFFL - Darrell Jackson, Seahawks WR

4.03 (39) – The Huddle - Reggie Wayne, Colts WR

4.04 (40) – FoxFantasy - Santana Moss, Redskins WR

4.05 (41) – Gridiron Grumblings - Joseph Addai, Colts RB

4.06 (42) – Draft Sharks - Roy Williams, Lions WR

4.07 (43) – FFToday - Joey Galloway, Bucs WR

4.08 (44) – SportingNews - DeAngelo Williams, Panthers RB

4.09 (45) – Draft Sharks - Tony Gonzalez, Chiefs TE

4.10 (46) – Footballguys - DeShaun Foster, Panthers RB

4.11 (47) – RotoWorld.com - Ron Dayne, Broncos RB

4.12 (48) – FantasyFootball.com - Jeremy Shockey, Giants TE

5.01 (49) – FantasyFootball.com - Cedric Benson, Bears RB

5.02 (50) – RotoWorld.com - Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks QB

5.03 (51) – Footballguys - Donald Driver, Packers WR

5.04 (52) – Football Injuries - Andre Johnson, Texans WR

5.05 (53) – SportingNews - Deion Branch, Patriots WR

5.06 (54) – FFToday - Donovan McNabb, Eagles QB

5.07 (55) – Draft Sharks - Plaxico Burress, Giants WR

5.08 (56) – Gridiron Grumblings - Javon Walker, Broncos WR

5.09 (57) – FoxFantasy - Tom Brady, Patriots QB

5.10 (58) – The Huddle - Todd Heap, Ravens TE

5.11 (59) – KFFL - Carson Palmer, Bengals QB

5.12 (60) – FantasyGuru - Joe Horn, Saints WR

6.01 (61) – FantasyGuru - Marc Bulger, Rams QB

This is a much more accurate representation of what I think will happen this year.

Note that all these industry drafters passed on Manning in the first and second and even early third rounds and he was drafted at 3-10 where he really had the VALUE.

The next QB was not taken off the board until 5-2

At that point 5 of the next 12 picks were the top ranked QBs

YES, he is two rounds better than the rest of the quarterbacks and now helps form a solid team - Cadillac, McGahee, Manning, Wayne, Heap

 
I'm picking at the turn in a 10-team money league, and thinking I should get certainty, in the form of two slam dunk certain studs at non-RB positions, rather than risking the year on Ronnie Brown and Caddy Williams, when I can risk the year on Warrick Dunn and Rueben Droughs (or, heaven help me, Ron Dayne) at the turn in rounds 3/4.

I'm leaning towards two WRs, (Holt and TO are my choices) rather than Peyt, because I think its easierer to find a competitive QB1 in the late rounds than a competitive WR1. Easier to catch a Bledsoe than a Steve Smith.

I also think that taking two WRs at the corner might begin a WR run in the draft in the second round. If that happens, then there will be two or more RBs available when I swing around in round three.
neither dunn nor droughns should be there on the 3rd/4th round turn. if there are, gb you.
 
From Rotoworld Mock Industry Draft - 12 teams, ppr

1.01 (1) – FantasyFootball.com - Larry Johnson, Chiefs RB

1.02 (2) – RotoWorld.com - LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers RB

1.03 (3) – Footballguys - Shaun Alexander, Seahawks RB

1.04 (4) – Football Injuries - Tiki Barber, Giants RB

1.05 (5) – SportingNews - Clinton Portis, Redskins RB

1.06 (6) – FFToday - LaMont Jordan, Raiders RB

1.07 (7) – Draft Sharks - Ronnie Brown, Dolphins RB

1.08 (8) – Gridiron Grumblings - Edgerrin James, Cardinals RB

1.09 (9) – FoxFantasy - Steven Jackson, Rams RB

1.10 (10) – The Huddle - Carnell Williams, Bucs RB

1.11 (11) – KFFL - Brian Westbrook, Eagles RB

1.12 (12) – The Guru Report - Domanick Davis, Texans RB

2.01 (13) – The Guru Report - Steve Smith, Panthers WR

2.02 (14) – KFFL - Rudi Johnson, Bengals RB

2.03 (15) – The Huddle - Willis McGahee, Bills RB

2.04 (16) – FoxFantasy - Reuben Droughns, Browns RB

2.05 (17) – Gridiron Grumblings - Torry Holt, Rams WR

2.06 (18) – Draft Sharks - Randy Moss, Raiders WR

2.07 (19) – FFToday - Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals WR

2.08 (20) – SportingNews - Chester Taylor, Vikings RB

2.09 (21) – Football Injuries - Julius Jones, Cowboys RB

2.10 (22) – Footballguys - Chad Johnson, Bengals WR

2.11 (23) – RotoWorld.com - Terrell Owens, Cowboys WR

2.12 (24) – FantasyFootball.com - Anquan Boldin, Cardinals WR

3.01 (25) – FantasyFootball.com - Deuce McAllister, Saints RB

3.02 (26) – RotoWorld.com - Kevin Jones, Lions RB

3.03 (27) – Footballguys - Antonio Gates, Chargers TE

3.04 (28) – Football Injuries - Marvin Harrison, Colts WR

3.05 (29) – SportingNews - Hines Ward, Steelers WR

3.06 (30) – FFToday - Corey Dillon, Patriots RB

3.07 (31) – Draft Sharks - Jamal Lewis, Ravens RB

3.08 (32) – Gridiron Grumblings - Willie Parker, Steelers RB

3.09 (33) – FoxFantasy - Tatum Bell, Broncos RB

3.10 (34) – The Huddle - Peyton Manning, Colts QB

3.11 (35) – KFFL - Warrick Dunn, Falcons RB

3.12 (36) – FantasyGuru - Reggie Bush, Saints RB

4.01 (37) – FantasyGuru - Chris Chambers, Dolphins WR

4.02 (38) – KFFL - Darrell Jackson, Seahawks WR

4.03 (39) – The Huddle - Reggie Wayne, Colts WR

4.04 (40) – FoxFantasy - Santana Moss, Redskins WR

4.05 (41) – Gridiron Grumblings - Joseph Addai, Colts RB

4.06 (42) – Draft Sharks - Roy Williams, Lions WR

4.07 (43) – FFToday - Joey Galloway, Bucs WR

4.08 (44) – SportingNews - DeAngelo Williams, Panthers RB

4.09 (45) – Draft Sharks - Tony Gonzalez, Chiefs TE

4.10 (46) – Footballguys - DeShaun Foster, Panthers RB

4.11 (47) – RotoWorld.com - Ron Dayne, Broncos RB

4.12 (48) – FantasyFootball.com - Jeremy Shockey, Giants TE

5.01 (49) – FantasyFootball.com - Cedric Benson, Bears RB

5.02 (50) – RotoWorld.com - Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks QB

5.03 (51) – Footballguys - Donald Driver, Packers WR

5.04 (52) – Football Injuries - Andre Johnson, Texans WR

5.05 (53) – SportingNews - Deion Branch, Patriots WR

5.06 (54) – FFToday - Donovan McNabb, Eagles QB

5.07 (55) – Draft Sharks - Plaxico Burress, Giants WR

5.08 (56) – Gridiron Grumblings - Javon Walker, Broncos WR

5.09 (57) – FoxFantasy - Tom Brady, Patriots QB

5.10 (58) – The Huddle - Todd Heap, Ravens TE

5.11 (59) – KFFL - Carson Palmer, Bengals QB

5.12 (60) – FantasyGuru - Joe Horn, Saints WR

6.01 (61) – FantasyGuru - Marc Bulger, Rams QB

This is a much more accurate representation of what I think will happen this year.

Note that all these industry drafters passed on Manning in the first and second and even early third rounds and he was drafted at 3-10 where he really had the VALUE.

The next QB was not taken off the board until 5-2

At that point 5 of the next 12 picks were the top ranked QBs

YES, he is two rounds better than the rest of the quarterbacks and now helps form a solid team - Cadillac, McGahee, Manning, Wayne, Heap
Like I said initially . . . know your other drafters and where players will fall. If QB in any particular league are going to fall, then certainly there's no point in taking one 2 rounds earlier than he would normally go.I've been in a lot of drafts over the years in a lot of scoring systems, and sometimes I've seen 2 QBs go in the first round and sometimes I've seen the first one go at the end of the 3rd or early 4th.

I still stand by my assessment that Manning will end the year as a Top 12 positional value guy, no matter where he ends up being drafted. Maybe that should have been the point of my initial post.

 
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DY - PLEASE put down that cup of coffee (or whatever was put in there)

This thread may elicit some interesting feedback but anyone who has tried it :bag: or watched someone else in their league try it :eek: knows that you will never catch up in RB & WR points.

In addition the relative value is horrible when you can get a Hasselbeck, Brady, Bulger or Eli in the sixth or seventh rounds.
Sure you can catch up. There are always several good RBs and WRs in the middle and later rounds. It worked for me last year (although Larry Johnson deserves a good bit of credit).
You can, but why are you putting yourself in a position to play catch up after one round?I drafted Larry Johnson last year as well as my 3rd RB.
Well, everyone else is playing catchup at QB :shrug: I'm sure your team was great with LJ as your 3rd RB, but that means you had to sit or trade one of your top 2 RBs. So unless someone offers you a nice deal (which doesn't always happen) you're sitting one of your top picks. You haven't optimized your lineup.

 
I still stand by my assessment that Manning will end the year as a Top 12 positional value guy, no matter where he ends up being drafted. maybe that should have been the point of my initial post.
What does that matter if you put your team behind the 8 ball and don't make the playoffs?My league doesn't give money for drafting top 12 positional value guys.

 
DY - PLEASE put down that cup of coffee (or whatever was put in there)

This  thread may elicit some interesting feedback but anyone who has tried it  :bag:   or watched someone else in their league try it  :eek:   knows that you will never catch up in RB & WR points.

In addition the relative value is horrible when you can get a Hasselbeck, Brady, Bulger or Eli in the sixth or seventh rounds.
Sure you can catch up. There are always several good RBs and WRs in the middle and later rounds. It worked for me last year (although Larry Johnson deserves a good bit of credit).
You can, but why are you putting yourself in a position to play catch up after one round?I drafted Larry Johnson last year as well as my 3rd RB.
Well, everyone else is playing catchup at QB :shrug:
XNot if you drafted Palmer. You were actually ahead.

I'm sure your team was great with LJ as your 3rd RB, but that means you had to sit or trade one of your top 2 RBs. So unless someone offers you a nice deal (which doesn't always happen) you're sitting one of your top picks. You haven't optimized your lineup.
Bye weeks or injuries down?That is the whole point of drafting a team versus drafting individuals off some VBD cheatsheet. There is such a premium to grab RBs and WRs in leagues (especially start 3 WR) that you cannot afford to grab a QB that early as you will lose so many more points over the course of the season filling in bye weeks and injuries.

I am not going to argue it. You are going to stick with your strategy and I really have no incentive for me to make you change.

Good luck on getting a LJ caliber player in the 4th this year to make up for Manning in the first.

 
Assuming that you went Manning/RB or RB/Manning, here would potentially be guys available at the #36 pick based on current ADP info:

RB21 Chester Taylor Min/6

RB22 Warrick Dunn Atl/5

RB23 Corey Dillon NE/6

RB24 Thomas Jones Chi/7

RB25 Tatum Bell Den/4

RB26 Deuce McAllister NO/7

RB27 De'shaun Foster Car/9

RB28 Joseph Addai Ind/6

RB29 Ahman Green GB/6

RB30 Cedric Benson Chi/7

RB31 Fred Taylor Jac/6

RB32 Curtis Martin NYJ/9

RB33 Chris Brown Ten/7

RB34 DeAngelo Williams Car/9

RB35 Dominic Rhodes Ind/6

RB36 Ron Dayne Den/4

RB37 Laurence Maroney NE/6

RB38 Frank Gore SF/7

RB39 LenDale White Ten/7

RB40 Marion Barber Dal/3

WR11 Reggie Wayne Ind/6

WR12 Santana Moss Was/8

WR13 Darrell Jackson Sea/5

WR14 Plaxico Burress NYG/4

WR15 Roy Williams Det/8

WR16 Javon Walker Den/4

WR17 Donald Driver GB/6

WR18 Andre Johnson Hou/5

WR19 Joe Horn NO/7

WR20 T.J. Houshmandzadeh Cin/5

WR21 Deion Branch NE/6

WR22 Joey Galloway TB/4

WR23 Derrick Mason Bal/7

WR24 Lee Evans Buf/8

WR25 Laveranues Coles NYJ/9

We can debate who should or should not go at 36/37, but it appears that you could still get a decent RB2 and a marginal WR1.

As bagger said, though, the question will forever be does whatever extra value Manning has get cancelled out in having a less productive RB2 and WR1 (in theory). IMO, the rounds much beyond the 36/37 pick are a wash, as the same players will be available.

 
Very nice posting by David, although I disagree. Also nice responses.

I am hoping that P Manning does go first round. I am also hoping that Palmer, Culpepper, and now, Rothlisberger are all predicted later in the summer to start the regular season playing.

If all these things occure, then there will be more certainties at QB than maybe ever and I will definitely not be targeting a certain QB, but taking one of several that others leave to me very late with potential to finish arounn QB10 and certainly only a point or two per game below many taken much, much earlier.

 
Good luck on getting a LJ caliber player in the 4th this year to make up for Manning in the first.
TY
IMO, good luck on ANY team getting LJ production in the 4th, regardless of what strategy you want to use. I don't think that this has any bearing on if taking Manning will or won't work. Teams that took Manning and LJ probably did very well last year, but that doesn't support Manning as a Top 5 pick overall in my book.
 
Good luck on getting a LJ caliber player in the 4th this year to make up for Manning in the first.
TY
IMO, good luck on ANY team getting LJ production in the 4th, regardless of what strategy you want to use. I don't think that this has any bearing on if taking Manning will or won't work. Teams that took Manning and LJ probably did very well last year, but that doesn't support Manning as a Top 5 pick overall in my book.
I'd settle for Thomas Jones production.
 
Very nice posting by David, although I disagree. Also nice responses.

I am hoping that P Manning does go first round. I am also hoping that Palmer, Culpepper, and now, Rothlisberger are all predicted later in the summer to start the regular season playing.

If all these things occure, then there will be more certainties at QB than maybe ever and I will definitely not be targeting a certain QB, but taking one of several that others leave to me very late with potential to finish arounn QB10 and certainly only a point or two per game below many taken much, much earlier.
This may be the most controversial debate to have about QB. At some point, the injured QB will be coming back, and the assumption by many people is that they will pick up right where they left off. I am not so sure that we can just say that they all go right back to their production levels of seasons past right out of the box. If these injured guys miss starts AND are less productive, then the perceived advantage PPG wise may prove to be a myth.I certainly have no data to look at with regard to injured players returning from injury, switching teams, and playing in a new system, but I suspect that if there were any the numbers would show a decline. How much, I don't know. We have no idea how someone like Culpepper will do on another team and without Moss. The without Moss part didn't turn out so well in Minnesota, maybe that will change in Miami.

 
We can debate who should or should not go at 36/37, but it appears that you could still get a decent RB2 and a marginal WR1.
I agree you can. So this means that through 4 rounds you have 2 good RBs, a good WR, and Manning. The issue then becomes when you get your 3rd RB to fill in for byes and/or injuries and then also filling out 2 more WR starters and getting a few more backups for there bye weeks. To compound the issue, many of the people who grab Manning this early also then grab a TE in the 6th and all of a sudden they are getting NO production out of their WR position.
 
I've got the #9 pick in a 12-team TD-only league, and I'm seriously considering this move. If not in the first (may not have the jujus for that), definitely in the second. I'll be surprised if he's available in the first, frankly.

 
There is no statistical evidence showing that a defense in year n is a good indicator of a good defense in year n+1. This assumption is faulty.
This one is starting to annoy me, as the only analyses I have seen of this issue were pretty flawed. That is used number who moved in or out of some arbitrary top rank rather than a more approriate Pearson Product Moment Coefficient based on something like yards allowed to passing and rushing.Another fallacy is that Drinen said defenses were inconsistent from year to year. If I recall he really said FANTASY defenses were and the special teams emphasis may be responsible. Could we PLEASE PLEASE put togethor the data so I can analyze this?
 
There is no statistical evidence showing that a defense in year n is a good indicator of a good defense in year n+1.  This assumption is faulty.
This one is starting to annoy me, as the only analyses I have seen of this issue were pretty flawed. That is used number who moved in or out of some arbitrary top rank rather than a more approriate Pearson Product Moment Coefficient based on something like yards allowed to passing and rushing.Another fallacy is that Drinen said defenses were inconsistent from year to year. If I recall he really said FANTASY defenses were and the special teams emphasis may be responsible.

Could we PLEASE PLEASE put togethor the data so I can analyze this?
Go right ahead. :thumbup:

 
There is no statistical evidence showing that a defense in year n is a good indicator of a good defense in year n+1.  This assumption is faulty.
This one is starting to annoy me, as the only analyses I have seen of this issue were pretty flawed. That is used number who moved in or out of some arbitrary top rank rather than a more approriate Pearson Product Moment Coefficient based on something like yards allowed to passing and rushing.Another fallacy is that Drinen said defenses were inconsistent from year to year. If I recall he really said FANTASY defenses were and the special teams emphasis may be responsible.

Could we PLEASE PLEASE put togethor the data so I can analyze this?
I have an article on defense overall coming out soon (not really based on fantasy scoring), and the Colts in the past decade have bounced around from year to year in the rankings. Should be up soon (like next week).
 
The rationale was that most of the time, people looked at huge seasons in the prior year and then felt that those numbers would magically reappear in the upcoming season.
I'm not sure that was really their rationale.
 
The rationale was that most of the time, people looked at huge seasons in the prior year and then felt that those numbers would magically reappear in the upcoming season.
I'm not sure that was really their rationale.
Better stated, paying a premium for prior results.
 

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