shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Correct, the LAB didn't put the puncture on there. The NURSE who took the blood did.
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Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Flying Elvis
- Start date
Correct, the LAB didn't put the puncture on there. The NURSE who took the blood did.
17seconds
root of all aliai
Das Boot
Footballguy
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Strang and Buting announced a North American Tour.
http://isthmus.com/news/news/dean-strang-and-jerry-buting-announce-tour/
MattFancy
Footballguy
New ‘Making A Murderer’ Evidence Shows A Rush To Charge Steven Avery With Murder
Another piece of evidence procured through Freedom of Information requests has many followers of the Making A Murderer trial questioning the way things were handled. Like everything else in the Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey cases, Teresa Halbach’s death certificate is an absolute mess of contradictions and impossibilities. Take a look at the full document here, care of StevenAveryCase.org.
Under ‘Body Found,’ they have ‘No’ checked, but under ‘Autopsy Performed,’ they check ‘Yes.’ The immediate cause of death is listed as ‘undetermined,’ but that gets crossed out and under manner of death, ‘homicide’ is checked. The certificate was issued on November 10, 2005, even though the Calumet County coroner only received the bone fragments on the 9th. They filled out their portion of the documents positively identifying the remains as Halbach’s on December 5, six weeks before the bones were positively identified on January 19. These dates are important because Steven Avery was charged with murder on November 9, and in order to do that, there must be proof of death. So, it seems like the paperwork on Halbach’s death certificate was pushed through improperly so charges could be laid. As usual, a quick glance into how things were done show a serious lack of professional procedure being followed and a rush to shoehorn Avery as the guilty party.
Another piece of evidence procured through Freedom of Information requests has many followers of the Making A Murderer trial questioning the way things were handled. Like everything else in the Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey cases, Teresa Halbach’s death certificate is an absolute mess of contradictions and impossibilities. Take a look at the full document here, care of StevenAveryCase.org.
Under ‘Body Found,’ they have ‘No’ checked, but under ‘Autopsy Performed,’ they check ‘Yes.’ The immediate cause of death is listed as ‘undetermined,’ but that gets crossed out and under manner of death, ‘homicide’ is checked. The certificate was issued on November 10, 2005, even though the Calumet County coroner only received the bone fragments on the 9th. They filled out their portion of the documents positively identifying the remains as Halbach’s on December 5, six weeks before the bones were positively identified on January 19. These dates are important because Steven Avery was charged with murder on November 9, and in order to do that, there must be proof of death. So, it seems like the paperwork on Halbach’s death certificate was pushed through improperly so charges could be laid. As usual, a quick glance into how things were done show a serious lack of professional procedure being followed and a rush to shoehorn Avery as the guilty party.
shuke said:
When Teresa Halbach’s bones were found, the Manitowoc County Coroner immediately went to the scene. She is required by law to investigate any death within her County not attended to by a doctor.
The Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department barred her from the site.
She ended up resigning a few months after the trials ended.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'd say the bones would need to be confirmed as Halbach's at the very least.shuke said:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Das Boot
Footballguy
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
I honestly don't know standard law protocol, whether a body is necessary to arrest someone for murder.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
A body can't be necessary. Otherwise, cremation would provide a free pass.
You were talking about ruling the cause of death in response to there being criticisms about the DC... the fact that the person who typically would've filled it out was kept away from the case possibly explains why the DC is such a #### show.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Just finished the series this afternoon, so I'm catching up on the thread and other reading on the topic.
There is a lot here that makes me think, but my three big takaways are this:
Colbourn should be in jail. It bugged me to no end to constantly see him in the end resorting both guys on their various perp walks. Does the sheriff department only have two guys? He's always there.
If Avery and Brenden are going to go through the effort of bleaching the garage, burning the body, etc, went would they leave her car in tact on their property?
Guilty or not, there was obviously misconduct and both should be free. The state overreached here. It sickens me that no court, other than the original judge would hear an appeal.
There is a lot here that makes me think, but my three big takaways are this:
Colbourn should be in jail. It bugged me to no end to constantly see him in the end resorting both guys on their various perp walks. Does the sheriff department only have two guys? He's always there.
If Avery and Brenden are going to go through the effort of bleaching the garage, burning the body, etc, went would they leave her car in tact on their property?
Guilty or not, there was obviously misconduct and both should be free. The state overreached here. It sickens me that no court, other than the original judge would hear an appeal.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Das Boot
Footballguy
I'd be interested in hearing why you think homicide is a certainty, considering they were working with only a few bone fragments.
The bullet holes in the skull could have been made post-mortem and are not proof that she was killed that way.
bucksoh
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Cell tower info, if true, if pretty strong.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
freeannyong
Footballguy
Cell tower data shows that TH left the property while SA did not.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Just a twitter tweet from Katherine Zellner. She's working on Avery's case now. Apparently she's had a bunch of wrongful convictions thrown out.
- 2000 - named among the "top 10 lawyers in America who always out-prepare their opponents" by National Law Journal[36]
- 2012 - American Bar Association Pursuit of Justice Award[36]
- 2014 - Named "Person of the Year" by Chicago Lawyer magazine[36]
She really is like the Michael Jordan of wrongful convictions. If she gets in your corner, it's a slam dunk. This lady knows what to look for in these cases and has vowed to never represent a guilty person. She has a serious long term goal of changing the justice system so that wrongful convictions aren't so painfully difficult to overturn when the evidence staring you in the face clearly exonerates a person. She's also all about gettin that money afterwards. It really is just a matter of time before she sinks her teeth into the state of Wisconsin. Can't wait to see that stroke faced smirk.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Airtight? Did he make a call from his property after she left?
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
yeah, she must have more info
But just having proof that she indeed left the property is pretty big. Wasn't her phone one of the items that ended up in the burn barrel?
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Agree this doesn't mean airtight. The only thing that could make it something close to airtight is if there are corresponding calls and voicemails left on someone else's phone. Otherwise it is just a record of where the phone went.
He called her for the 3rd time that day (and the first not using *67) to come back and take a picture of some forklift or some industrial vehicle. And then had a call with his GF in jail an hr or so later.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
How does she always pick people who happened to be wrongfully convicted? Is she just lucky that way? I have my doubts about her and her motives.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
If it proves she left his property and her phone switched cell towers it's airtight in the sense that her murder doesn't match up with the prosecutions case that she was tied up, raped and murdered when Brandon got home from school. The timeframe wouldn't match at all.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
All I'm saying is that the cell tower records show that the PHONE moved from the property, not the PERSON. There would need to be some other evidence that the phone was used by her to be "airtight." Obviously the vehicle was moved by someone else (she didn't park it in the salvage yard), so someone could have driven the vehicle elsewhere with the phone (or even her body) in it off the property.
It's another piece of evidence to help exonerate Avery, but not a smoking gun.
Her and her team research the evidence of the case. There are said to be at least 2,000 innocent people locked up, and that is said to be on the conservative side. The Avery family has been trying to get her on the case for a long time as she's the best in the field and pretty close being based out of Chicago... so I can see why people would think her motives are the publicity of this case and the cash from the civil suit to follow... and I'm sure that is a big part of her drive and willingness to finally take on the case. What are your suspicions as to her and her motives?
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Oh yeah I agree, that's what I meant when I said "if it proves she left his property" without elaborating.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I think getting hung up on the word "airtight" is a red herring. The burden is that evidence proves beyond reasonable doubt. This evidence just made that burden much harder. Even if he did it, there's just too many things like this that make me doubt he did it.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
If no outgoing calls were made. I remember the issue being if you fly to another city with your phone off, the phone will still use the tower in the city you left for incoming messages until you turn the phone back on and it finds a new tower.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
If Avery isn't exonerated it will sure make this Zellner lady look like a publicity whore.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Well, airtight is the word from his new lawyer, that's the only reason I'm referring to it. I agreed to the bold above in my post you quoted.
Just so we're clear here, I'm on the side of Avery being exonerated. I understand there could be a lot of evidence at the trial that wasn't presented in the documentary, but even with the inconsistencies, and inappropriate behavior by investigators, prosecutors, and sherrifs, reasonable doubt seems to have been met here.
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