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Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (2 Viewers)

mr. furley said:
her name and tweets were all over the local news here for weeks.  haven't heard any mention of her in months. :shrug:

(i live 30 minutes from Avery Salvage)
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Local news attention has shifted.  She still has her name and is tweeting.  We'll all see what she's been up to for ourselves in about 5 weeks.  

 
cockroach said:
Local news attention has shifted.  She still has her name and is tweeting.  We'll all see what she's been up to for ourselves in about 5 weeks.  
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not really. Avery and the story is still in the papers an on tv.. just no Zellner news.

wasn't she supposed to have earth shattering news by now? i forget her original timeline.

 
mr. furley said:
not really. Avery and the story is still in the papers an on tv.. just no Zellner news.

wasn't she supposed to have earth shattering news by now? i forget her original timeline.
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Yeah, she has quieted down a little, but she's still rattling from time to time about Avery and some other case she's got. She certainly got everyone's attention with her claim of a "tsunami" of new evidence. I think she was just throwing out some teasers to stoke the social media fires a little bit. 

 
http://wbay.com/2016/07/28/report-avery-blasts-former-lawyers-in-letter/

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/steven-avery-making-a-murderer-netflix-109089


  • “NORTHEAST WISCONSIN (WBAY) – Convicted murderer Steven Avery has lashed out at his former attorneys in a letter to In Touch Weekly.











The news comes as Avery mounts an appeal of his murder conviction and the announcement of season 2 of Netflix docu-series Making a Murderer. In the handwritten letter, dated July 18, Avery criticizes murder trial lawyers Dean Strang and Jerry Buting, featured heavily in the first season of Making a Murderer.

Avery claims Strang and Buting failed to call forensic experts at trial.


“Dean and Jerry didn’t do no investigation on this case, if they did I would not be in prison, They would have the suspect if they did there [sic] job!” – Steve Avery letter



Avery is serving a life sentence for the 2013 murder of freelance photographer Theresa Halbach in Manitowoc County.

Making a Murderer makes the case for a defense theory that Avery was framed for the murder by law enforcement in Manitowoc County.

Avery had successfully sued Manitowoc County for $36 million after spending 18 years in prison for a rape he did not commit. The defense claimed the county wanted to get back at Avery for the lawsuit.

For his appeal, Avery has hired Chicago-area attorney Kathleen Zellner.  Avery has filed a motion to be released from prison as he works on his case. That is still pending.

Avery’s nephew Brendan Dassey was also convicted in the case. He was sentenced to life in prison with a chance of parole in 2048.

 
 now REELZ  is jumping in with their own spin on the case(s), w/tagline "there are two sides to every story"

seeing this plugged like crazy the past week or so.

:popcorn:

 
mr. furley said:
wonder how much of this is Zellner in his ear and how much of it he kept pent up during/after the trial
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I honestly think it's more likely just grasping at straws. He keeps trying to find a new person to blame his conviction on. In my opinion, it's overwhelmingly likely that he committed the crimes and is rightly in prison for it. But him lashing out at his former attorneys is more of a headline grabber.

 
mr. furley said:
wonder how much of this is Zellner in his ear and how much of it he kept pent up during/after the trial
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I'm curious as well on this one. He seemed pleased with how they were handling things and from the series, it seemed like they were working hard for him. Again, I guess we don't know all the details, but it just seems odd to go after them now.

 
he definitely seemed happy with their effort.. at least that's how it was portrayed in the documentary.

but, also, "fans" of the show were ready to canonize these two. i haven't followed the story in a few months so not sure if there has been a gradual change towards moderating the excitement about them but i doubt it.  merely suggesting that it might be possible that maybe they may not have executed the perfect defense was enough to send people careening over the edge in a rage.

 
For whatever its worth (not much), but I was in Wisconsin last week at a family reunion with several people who still live in and around Manitowoc - they all think he did it.  I suppose that makes sense since most of the local coverage was probably slanted against Avery at the time of the trial. :shrug:

 
Sinn Fein said:
 most of the local coverage was probably slanted against Avery at the time of the trial. :shrug:
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heavily

i live 30 minutes from there. the news stations are all here. it was on tv and in the paper daily for a long time. people felt duped and they were really, really angry. 

if he had been arrested for killing his brother, his nephew, some random joe at a bar... the level of outrage and interest in the case would have been 10% of what it was because a young woman was involved. people were furious about it.

 
mr. furley said:
but, also, "fans" of the show were ready to canonize these two. i haven't followed the story in a few months so not sure if there has been a gradual change towards moderating the excitement about them but i doubt it.  merely suggesting that it might be possible that maybe they may not have executed the perfect defense was enough to send people careening over the edge in a rage.
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Someone came on the TickTockManitowac Redit page (the official MaM reddit got blown up by some weird people appointed mod) and made some interesting accusations towards Strang/Buting that people didn't want to hear.  It was long and convoluted but was basically suggesting that those guys were pretty much appointed to Avery to be inside men.  He cited a bunch of relationships and the record amount of time spent in sidebars or talking about stuff away from the jury in this case.   And I think he's used up all of his appeals, so "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel" or new evidence is his only way to get back in front of a judge.   Anyway,  I'll see if I can find something to link to the accusations on the lawyers. 

 
cockroach said:
Someone came on the TickTockManitowac Redit page (the official MaM reddit got blown up by some weird people appointed mod) and made some interesting accusations towards Strang/Buting that people didn't want to hear.  It was long and convoluted but was basically suggesting that those guys were pretty much appointed to Avery to be inside men.  He cited a bunch of relationships and the record amount of time spent in sidebars or talking about stuff away from the jury in this case.   And I think he's used up all of his appeals, so "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel" or new evidence is his only way to get back in front of a judge.   Anyway,  I'll see if I can find something to link to the accusations on the lawyers. 
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Halfway through the transcripts and there certainly are a lot (it seems to me) of sidebars outside the present of the jury; but I don't know if that may be S.O.P. in trials such as these. 

Oh and new trial nuggets forthcoming as soon as I can get time to type them up

 
having just sat on a jury trial (civil case) i can say there were many many instances where the judge pulled the lawyers to the side and/or the lawyers requested to approach and speak privately.

doesn't seem terribly unusual, i guess

 
cockroach said:
Someone came on the TickTockManitowac Redit page (the official MaM reddit got blown up by some weird people appointed mod) and made some interesting accusations towards Strang/Buting that people didn't want to hear.  It was long and convoluted but was basically suggesting that those guys were pretty much appointed to Avery to be inside men.  
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:lmao:  Conspiracy theory is officially off the charts.

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
Halfway through the transcripts and there certainly are a lot (it seems to me) of sidebars outside the present of the jury; but I don't know if that may be S.O.P. in trials such as these. 

Oh and new trial nuggets forthcoming as soon as I can get time to type them up
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I watched a few trials on TV when it was all the rage, OJ, Menendez brothers, etc.  There were sidebars constantly. 

 
shuke said:
I watched a few trials on TV when it was all the rage, OJ, Menendez brothers, etc.  There were sidebars constantly. 
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I can't find the post, but the guy gave a specific number, and it was like 5x the amount of the next highest.  I couldn't find the post, but I remember that part standing out.  Could be nothing and it doesn't seem that the community over there ran with it, but since we were talking about the ineffectiveness of Stang/Buting, I thought I'd mention it.

 
Trial Transcript Day 17 nuggets

Sorry it took me a while to get these typed up. Work has been stupid. Might help to refer back to Day 16 notes with Dr. Lebeau, as he is the star witness on Day 17.

  • Sheriff's office has master keys to the Clerk of Court's office, where the box of files and evidence (aka blood vial) was being kept :tinfoilhat:  
  • they played the DVD of them opening the package with the blood vial and discovering the broken seal on the styrofoam box that contained the vial
  • Dr. Lebeau talked about control swabs from near the dashboard stain to check for the presence of EDTA from cleaners, etc.
  • State asked about when the last time EDTA was done on blood stains (that being the OJ trial) --basically "8-miled" the defense by beating them to the punch after they brought it up on Day 17 outside the presence of the jury.. +1 for the State here
  • Dr. L did the study on EDTA bloodstains on lab cards 2 days AFTER his report was turned in; said Defense's request and questions at that time prompted him to think about how to test old stains :tinfoilhat:  
  • Dr. L said even though he didn't test the other 3 swabs from TH's vehicle, he believed they couldn't have come from the SA blood vial 
  • Dr. L apparently used a picture of a finger dripping blood in his Powerpoint presentation that the State used; Defense (almost mockingly) asked why he used a finger and he said that's just what came up on the Microsoft website 
  • Dr. L testified that the top of the SA vial had clearly been opened at some time prior to him getting it; blood had seeped into the stopper, and that's the only way that could have happened
Overall, Dr. Lebeau, at least in text, came across as a bit of an arrogant ###. He and the Defense got a bit testy with each other during exchanges at several points, but I guess that's their job, to try to rattle the State's witnesses.  Guess the jury ended up buying his testimony for the most part, though. 

Day 18 is the final day of the State's witnesses. I'm about half way through it. Started off slow, but there were some interesting tidbits that developed on this one. Coming soon. 

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
Dr. L testified that the top of the SA vial had clearly been opened at some time prior to him getting it; blood had seeped into the stopper, and that's the only way that could have happened 
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That's pretty huge.   A lot was made of the puncture top in the purple stopper, but that was normal/protocol.  However, here is a State's witness testifying under oath that the vial had been tampered with.  Massive red flag, IMO.

 
Trial Transcript Day 18 nuggets

  • Rodney Pevytoe, Wisconsin DCI Agent: arson investigator, says they removed both steel belts (from tires) and a metal frame for an SUV car seat from the burn pit. He assumes they were used as accelerants
  • there was a large outdoor boiler stove that they investigated but nothing of evidentiary value was found; same goes for the aluminum smelter on the property; neither appeared to have been used recently
  • several pieces of suspected bone fragments found around the burn pit turned out to be pieces of jumper cable insulation 
  • Pevytoe said a time frame could not be concluded for the steel belts from the tires versus the bone fragments that were found
  • Michael Riddle, the Crime Lab fingerprint specialist, testified there were 8 areas on the outside of the RAV were identified for fingerprint analysis; plus several items inside the RAV, as well as it's license plates
  • they had fingerprints for all the Averys and Dasseys, and for Lenk and Colburn, on file
  • no prints were found on anything from the RAV; overall, only one print was found, and that was SA's pinky print on the headboard from his bedroom
  • they examined a letter sent to the MCSO, but no prints were found
  • recently investigated the box that contained the blood vial; no identifications were made; same for the blood vial, and it had no sustainable fingerprints
  • Defense brought up that the State did NOT submit the .22 rifle or the shell casings for fingerprint testing :tinfoilhat:  
  • they also didn't bring in the RAV key for fingerprint testing
  • the letter from above was apparently an anonymous tip, saying something along the lines of "body burned in smelter at 3AM"  :shock:  (WTF!); the jury was excused and there was some discussion about the relevance of this mysterious letter' State said it was heresay; Defense said it showed clear investigative bias by not following up on it because it didn't fit their "behind the garage" theory :tinfoilhat:   --how could this NOT have been investigated?!!? Had not read about mention of this letter before. Wonder if this is something Zellner might be looking into as well
  • Judge only allowed Riddle to testify that he tested the letter a year after the RAV testing was done; the content of the letter may come up later with a Defense witness :popcorn:  
  • Riddle put on gloves before picking up an item of evidence and Defense said that was second nature for police so he wouldn't leave or disturb prints, and Riddle agreed that "yes, cops are usually very careful about prints" :tinfoilhat:  
  • Defense: prints were found and extracted from the RAV and it's items, Riddle: Yes; Defense: These prints were not ever compared to Lenk and Coburn's prints? Riddle: No: Defense: and nobody, even now, has tried to match them? Riddle: No; And they also didn't compare to Scott Tadych? Riddle: No; --the last one about Tadych was objected to and it was sustained and stricken from the record :tinfoilhat:
  • Cingular rep said that the report they had as evidence would not show if someone had deleted voicemails from TH's account but made it sound like there might be another report that would show that --Zellner??
  • Mike Halbach said he tried to access TH's voicemail when his mom told him her voicemail was full; this was on 11/3 and he listened (or at least started listening to) every message; the date and time of his call to her voicemail was confirmed by phone records of the Green Bay Packers' staff, where he worked; He didn't believe that he deleted any voicemails
  • Mark Weigert, CCSD investigator, said they did interviews with TH's family, Bloedorn (the roommate) and friends who showed up at TH's residence when she was still considered missing
  • Weigert said they recovered lots of keys during the investigation, but not one (besides the infamous RAV key) was linked to TH in any way; they tried the found keys in her residence, her business, her church (where she coached volleyball) and none of them were a match
  • Weigert confirmed that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych were the only 2 who said they saw each other "going deer hunting"; no other person corroborated the story of either of these 2 :tinfoilhat:
  • Tadych didn't go to work on 10/31; he said he went to Green Bay to visit his mother in the hospital
  • nobody checked to see if his mother was actually in the hospital; the only person to corroborate this story was Barb Janda, who later said she had made a trip to the hospital also
  • nobody asked Bobby Dassey in his interview why he took a shower if he was heading deer hunting --unless you are using some sort of scent blocking soap, this is generally a no-no for hunters, as the deer can get your scent pretty easily, so :tinfoilhat:
  • THE STATE RESTS

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
  • the letter from above was apparently an anonymous tip, saying something along the lines of "body burned in smelter at 3AM"  :shock:  (WTF!); the jury was excused and there was some discussion about the relevance of this mysterious letter' State said it was heresay; Defense said it showed clear investigative bias by not following up on it because it didn't fit their "behind the garage" theory :tinfoilhat:   --how could this NOT have been investigated?!!? Had not read about mention of this letter before. Wonder if this is something Zellner might be looking into as well
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Here is a picture of that letter:

https://thoughtcatalog.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/avery2.png?w=656&h=787

Sort of resembles Avery's child-like writing style.

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
interesting..thanks! why in the hell wouldn't they pursue this!?
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Because Avery was framed.   There's far too many "why in the hell" questions about law enforcement's actions to come to any other conclusion for me.

Less than 3 weeks (unless further extensions are filed) until we see what Zellner has up her sleeves.   Word is, the family expects to have the boys home for Xmas. 

 
Holy #### that's huge for Avery too. The prosecutor has 90 days to decide if they will re-try him. I'm glad the judge called out the investigators for their actions. 

Concluding the 91-page decision, Duffin found that investigators made false promises to Dassey during multiple interrogations.

"These repeated false promises, when considered in conjunction with all relevant factors, most especially Dassey’s age, intellectual deficits, and the absence of a supportive adult, rendered Dassey’s confession involuntary under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. The Wisconsin Court of Appeals’ decision to the contrary was an unreasonable application of clearly established federal law," Duffin wrote.
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http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2016/08/12/dassey-wins-ruling-teresa-halbach-murder/88632502/

 
Wow - this story seems to get more and more crazy.  If they finally prove Avery was framed for this how much can he sue for this time - a brazillion dollars?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
YEEEEA!    SUCK IT!!!!!

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Send that boy to WRESTLEMANIAAAAAAA!  whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 
I'm not so sure there's going to be an appeal here.  With the confession deemed to be illegal under the Constitution, I don't think the prosecutors would want to retry this.

Avery, on the other hand, would most certainly see an appeal should his sentence also be overturned.

 
TheAristocrat said:
I'm not so sure there's going to be an appeal here.  With the confession deemed to be illegal under the Constitution, I don't think the prosecutors would want to retry this.

Avery, on the other hand, would most certainly see an appeal should his sentence also be overturned.
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I think an appeal on this decision is for sure going to happen, if that fails, I doubt they retry... but there's a chance a higher court says this judge got it wrong.

 
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