Malaysian plane shot down in Ukraine. (1 Viewer)

[George Jefferson Airplane]

What should the response to this be?

Cold War II, Electric Boogaloo

 

[QuizGuy66]

Analysts/politicians saying that there's no practical reason that a passenger airline would be purposely shot down in this instance are underestimating what a desperate force is capable of. It very well could be a controlled deteremined action by separatists. If you feel like Russia is not helping you enough and if you feel like they are trying to reach a settlement (and you don't want that) well doing something with this sheer level of horror poisons the well of cooperation - basically you make it impossible for Russia and Ukraine to settle things now. Which, if you're a separatist that wants the war to continue/escalate, is exactly what you want.

This event is just beyond awful.

-QG

I understand that reasoning totally.

But I still think it's WAY more reasonable to assume that it was shot down by mistake at this point.

Oh sure totally plauible it was some degree of mistake as well. I think the idea that it's "impossible" that a passenger plane could be a purposeful target is hogwash. Frankly it's so early with so much unknown that this is where the worst of cable news shines. As usual with a breaking story you have people come on there simultaneously jumping to conclusions and saying we can't come to conclusions (John McCain was very adept at this it seemed, but there's no partisan monopoly on that).

-QG

 

[TheIronSheik]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

 

[Politician Spock]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

 

[Eminence]

False Flag to arm Ukraine from Russian intervention?

 

[jonessed]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

Even more sanctions.

I doubt Europe will help though. Russia's natural gas puts them in Putin's back pocket.

 

[TheIronSheik]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

I'm sorry if that sounded like I was blaming Russia without knowing. That was not my intent. The question should have been prefaced with "If this turns out to be Pro Russia forces..."

 

[QuizGuy66]

MSNBC has it right

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/prankster-poses-as-ukraine-eyewitness-calls-msnbc-host-1606767078?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

She is a dumb one!

holy ####

Yeah I might have to switch over to MSNBC's coverage...

-QG

 

[Jim11]

He thinks that it MAY be a terrible tragedy, yet continues on with jokes? What a leader.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696366/It-looks-like-terrible-tragedy-Obama-briefly-addresses-Malaysian-plane-crash-emerges-23-U-S-passengers-board.html

Barack Obama provoked fury in the U.S. by casually devoting mere moments to the deaths of 295 people aboard a Malaysian airliner on Thursday in Wilmington, Delaware, and then launching into jokes and his prepared remarks on the need to expand America's transportation infrastructure.

Twenty-three Americans are feared dead after the jetliner crashed in eastern Ukraine.

Obama declared that 'it looks like it may be a terrible tragedy, but not before enthusiastically declaring that 'it is wonderful to be back in Delaware.'

 

[Mister Martie]

He thinks that it MAY be a terrible tragedy, yet continues on with jokes? What a leader.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696366/It-looks-like-terrible-tragedy-Obama-briefly-addresses-Malaysian-plane-crash-emerges-23-U-S-passengers-board.html

Barack Obama provoked fury in the U.S. by casually devoting mere moments to the deaths of 295 people aboard a Malaysian airliner on Thursday in Wilmington, Delaware, and then launching into jokes and his prepared remarks on the need to expand America's transportation infrastructure.

Twenty-three Americans are feared dead after the jetliner crashed in eastern Ukraine.

Obama declared that 'it looks like it may be a terrible tragedy, but not before enthusiastically declaring that 'it is wonderful to be back in Delaware.'

Give it a rest, weirdo.

 

[Politician Spock]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

I'm sorry if that sounded like I was blaming Russia without knowing. That was not my intent. The question should have been prefaced with "If this turns out to be Pro Russia forces..."

The same old/same old: more sanctions and empty threats of war.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Full version of intercepted conversation between pro-Russia terrorists and Russian army colonel regarding Boing777. 3 phone calls.

FIRST PHONE CALL: Conversation between pro-Russian terrorist leader Besler and Russian colonel Geranin.

16: 20 p.m.

17 July 2014.

Bes: A plane was shoot down just now. By the team of “Miner”. It fell near Yenakiyevo.

Geranin: Where are pilots?

Bes: We went to look for them and to take photos of the plane. It is smoking.

Geranin: How many minutes ago?

Bes: 30 min ago

SECOND PHONE CALL: between terrorists named “Greek” and “Major”.

16:33 pm

17 July 17, 2014

Major: “Chernukhinskiye” shot down the plane. From Chernukhinskiy block post. The cossacks who are stationed there. Plane fell apart in the air. Near the Petropavlivska mine. We found the first 200 (means dead body). She is a civilian.

Greek: …

THIRD PHONE CALL: between terrorists named “Greek” and “Major”.

17: 32 PM

17 July 17, 2014

Major: It is 100% a civil aircraft.

Greek: I see. Are there many people there?

Major: “Pizdets” – means “a lot”. The debris fell into people’s backyards.

Greek: What type of an aircraft?

Major: I did not figure out yet. I have not seen the body of the plane. I am only seeing the bodies. Remains of the console, chairs, bodies.

Greek: Are there any weapons?

Major: Nothing at all. Civilian clothes, medical supplies, towels, toilet paper.

Greek: Are there any documents?

Greek: Yes. Of an Indonesian student from Thompson university. ####.

Thompson University: http://www.thompsonuniversity.com/

Such a random school yet completely plausible given it's online nature and that it boasts it's global nature. I.E. that bit makes the transcript seem legit IMO.

-QG

 

[lod01]

Give it a rest, weirdo.

 

[jonessed]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

I'm sorry if that sounded like I was blaming Russia without knowing. That was not my intent. The question should have been prefaced with "If this turns out to be Pro Russia forces..."

It's either Russian military on the border or pro-Russian separatists. The equipment used guaranties at least that much.

Someone clearly got trigger happy and made a massive mistake.

 

[TheIronSheik]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

I'm sorry if that sounded like I was blaming Russia without knowing. That was not my intent. The question should have been prefaced with "If this turns out to be Pro Russia forces..."

The same old/same old: more sanctions and empty threats of war.

Are you OK with that?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Malaysian plane crash came up in Obama/Putin phone call, @PressSec now confirms.

,@PressSec says near end of phone call with POTUS, Putin noted reports of a downed passenger jet near Russia-Ukraine border.

https://twitter.com/markknoller?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2F2014%2F07%2F17%2Fare-you-kidding-me-adrift-obamas-schedule-unchanged-as-burger-photo-op-moves-forward%2F&tw_i=489817591524122624&tw_p=tweetembed

Apparently our Prez got this in live time.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Jesus. RT @BrianFaughnan: Oh God. RT @trish_regan: Adviser to Ukranian Int Minister says, Ukraine crash kills 23 U.S. citizens

https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2F2014%2F07%2F17%2Freports-malaysia-airlines-777-carrying-295-people-crashes-in-ukraine-no-survivors-pic-video%2F&tw_i=489823366824857600&tw_p=tweetembed

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

An official wrote on Facebook that the plane was flying at 33,000 feet when it was hit by a missile: http://apne.ws/1t9g3ZL

https://twitter.com/AP?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2F2014%2F07%2F17%2Freports-malaysia-airlines-777-carrying-295-people-crashes-in-ukraine-no-survivors-pic-video%2F&tw_i=489797413847441409&tw_p=tweetembed

 

[Ilov80s]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

I'm sorry if that sounded like I was blaming Russia without knowing. That was not my intent. The question should have been prefaced with "If this turns out to be Pro Russia forces..."

The same old/same old: more sanctions and empty threats of war.

Are you OK with that?

What are the other options?

 

[Politician Spock]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

I'm sorry if that sounded like I was blaming Russia without knowing. That was not my intent. The question should have been prefaced with "If this turns out to be Pro Russia forces..."

The same old/same old: more sanctions and empty threats of war.

Are you OK with that?

I wish my country would stay out it completely. We haven't solved anything with war in at least 70 years.

 

[mcintyre1]

Full version of intercepted conversation between pro-Russia terrorists and Russian army colonel regarding Boing777. 3 phone calls.

FIRST PHONE CALL: Conversation between pro-Russian terrorist leader Besler and Russian colonel Geranin.

16: 20 p.m.

17 July 2014.

Bes: A plane was shoot down just now. By the team of “Miner”. It fell near Yenakiyevo.

Geranin: Where are pilots?

Bes: We went to look for them and to take photos of the plane. It is smoking.

Geranin: How many minutes ago?

Bes: 30 min ago

SECOND PHONE CALL: between terrorists named “Greek” and “Major”.

16:33 pm

17 July 17, 2014

Major: “Chernukhinskiye” shot down the plane. From Chernukhinskiy block post. The cossacks who are stationed there. Plane fell apart in the air. Near the Petropavlivska mine. We found the first 200 (means dead body). She is a civilian.

Greek: …

THIRD PHONE CALL: between terrorists named “Greek” and “Major”.

17: 32 PM

17 July 17, 2014

Major: It is 100% a civil aircraft.

Greek: I see. Are there many people there?

Major: “Pizdets” – means “a lot”. The debris fell into people’s backyards.

Greek: What type of an aircraft?

Major: I did not figure out yet. I have not seen the body of the plane. I am only seeing the bodies. Remains of the console, chairs, bodies.

Greek: Are there any weapons?

Major: Nothing at all. Civilian clothes, medical supplies, towels, toilet paper.

Greek: Are there any documents?

Greek: Yes. Of an Indonesian student from Thompson university. ####.

Thompson University: http://www.thompsonuniversity.com/

Such a random school yet completely plausible given it's online nature and that it boasts it's global nature. I.E. that bit makes the transcript seem legit IMO.

-QG

It is a translation of this video/audio, released by Ukrainian Intelligence. I've read maybe a half dozen "amatuer" translations on Reddit that line up with the above translation.

 

[TheIronSheik]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

I'm sorry if that sounded like I was blaming Russia without knowing. That was not my intent. The question should have been prefaced with "If this turns out to be Pro Russia forces..."

The same old/same old: more sanctions and empty threats of war.

Are you OK with that?

I wish my country would stay out it completely. We haven't solved anything with war in at least 70 years.

Fair enough. I'm just asking. I think the fact that 23 American civilians were just killed might warrant a response more than "Oh well. "

 

[Ilov80s]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

I'm sorry if that sounded like I was blaming Russia without knowing. That was not my intent. The question should have been prefaced with "If this turns out to be Pro Russia forces..."

The same old/same old: more sanctions and empty threats of war.

Are you OK with that?

I wish my country would stay out it completely. We haven't solved anything with war in at least 70 years.

Fair enough. I'm just asking. I think the fact that 23 American civilians were just killed might warrant a response more than "Oh well. "

What response though?

 

[mcintyre1]

Also, RT now reporting that Putin's plane was nowhere near the flight path of MH17.

 

[mcintyre1]

Picture taken today of a rebel controlled BUK vehicle near the site of the attack.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Before I begin, obviously the world is watching reports of a downed passenger jet near the Russia/Ukraine border. And it looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Right now we're working to determine whether there were American citizens onboard. That is our first priority. And I've directed my national security team to stay in close contact with the Ukrainian government. The United States will offer any assistance we can to help determine what happened and why. And as a country our thoughts and prayers are with all of the families and passengers wherever they call home.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/07/17/obama_plane_crash_in_ukraine_may_be_a_terrible_tragedy.html

It looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Just likely maybe might be. Or not. He doesn't know. Vlad Putin told him personally... but they're still looking for details.

Here's betting that it wasn't written that way for him. Well he got in his photo op and will be doing two fundraisers tonight. He's on it.

 

[TheIronSheik]

What response though?

I've said it before: I'm not a world leader. It's not my job to make difficult and, most likely, no-win decisions.

 

[mcintyre1]

Translated version of the call.

 

[Ilov80s]

What response though?

I've said it before: I'm not a world leader. It's not my job to make difficult and, most likely, no-win decisions.

It's your right to vote for our world leaders though. I'm not sure it's fair to say we need to do something other than sanctions, but not have any thoughts on what that is.

 

[Steve Tasker]

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Before I begin, obviously the world is watching reports of a downed passenger jet near the Russia/Ukraine border. And it looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Right now we're working to determine whether there were American citizens onboard. That is our first priority. And I've directed my national security team to stay in close contact with the Ukrainian government. The United States will offer any assistance we can to help determine what happened and why. And as a country our thoughts and prayers are with all of the families and passengers wherever they call home.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/07/17/obama_plane_crash_in_ukraine_may_be_a_terrible_tragedy.html

It looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Just likely maybe might be. Or not. He doesn't know. Vlad Putin told him personally... but they're still looking for details.

Here's betting that it wasn't written that way for him. Well he got in his photo op and will be doing two fundraisers tonight. He's on it.

Who gives a ####?

 

[Ilov80s]

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Before I begin, obviously the world is watching reports of a downed passenger jet near the Russia/Ukraine border. And it looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Right now we're working to determine whether there were American citizens onboard. That is our first priority. And I've directed my national security team to stay in close contact with the Ukrainian government. The United States will offer any assistance we can to help determine what happened and why. And as a country our thoughts and prayers are with all of the families and passengers wherever they call home.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/07/17/obama_plane_crash_in_ukraine_may_be_a_terrible_tragedy.html

It looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Just likely maybe might be. Or not. He doesn't know. Vlad Putin told him personally... but they're still looking for details.

Here's betting that it wasn't written that way for him. Well he got in his photo op and will be doing two fundraisers tonight. He's on it.

Who gives a ####?

3 letters, 1 word, endless scrutiny.

 

[Politician Spock]

What should the response to this be?

Hopefully we don't wait to find out any facts. I want something to be done NOW!

I wasn't really saying what should the US's response be. I was more asking what should the world's response be to this? This is Russia's fault. The question is, will anything happen because of what they have done?

This is what the Klingons were asking in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

It was so obvious that the Enterprise fired at the Klingon vessel. It was Kirk's fault. Let's move on to what should be done. No need to question who did it at all. We're already past that.

I'm sorry if that sounded like I was blaming Russia without knowing. That was not my intent. The question should have been prefaced with "If this turns out to be Pro Russia forces..."

The same old/same old: more sanctions and empty threats of war.

Are you OK with that?

I wish my country would stay out it completely. We haven't solved anything with war in at least 70 years.

Fair enough. I'm just asking. I think the fact that 23 American civilians were just killed might warrant a response more than "Oh well. "

We lost 5,000 invading Iraq (and $2.3 trillion), and a decade later nothing has changed there.

I don't think we should respond just for the sake of responding. If there was something we could do to change the world, then I would support it. But we can't change the world. Our military actions are causing more problems than we are solving.

 

[TheIronSheik]

What response though?

I've said it before: I'm not a world leader. It's not my job to make difficult and, most likely, no-win decisions.

It's your right to vote for our world leaders though. I'm not sure it's fair to say we need to do something other than sanctions, but not have any thoughts on what that is.

Why would I have thoughts? Based on what the media tells us? Over information collected by our agencies? That seems rather stupid.

 

[Plorfu]

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Before I begin, obviously the world is watching reports of a downed passenger jet near the Russia/Ukraine border. And it looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Right now we're working to determine whether there were American citizens onboard. That is our first priority. And I've directed my national security team to stay in close contact with the Ukrainian government. The United States will offer any assistance we can to help determine what happened and why. And as a country our thoughts and prayers are with all of the families and passengers wherever they call home.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/07/17/obama_plane_crash_in_ukraine_may_be_a_terrible_tragedy.html

It looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Just likely maybe might be. Or not. He doesn't know. Vlad Putin told him personally... but they're still looking for details.

Here's betting that it wasn't written that way for him. Well he got in his photo op and will be doing two fundraisers tonight. He's on it.

You and Jim11 make a great team.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Before I begin, obviously the world is watching reports of a downed passenger jet near the Russia/Ukraine border. And it looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Right now we're working to determine whether there were American citizens onboard. That is our first priority. And I've directed my national security team to stay in close contact with the Ukrainian government. The United States will offer any assistance we can to help determine what happened and why. And as a country our thoughts and prayers are with all of the families and passengers wherever they call home.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/07/17/obama_plane_crash_in_ukraine_may_be_a_terrible_tragedy.html

It looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. Just likely maybe might be. Or not. He doesn't know. Vlad Putin told him personally... but they're still looking for details.

Here's betting that it wasn't written that way for him. Well he got in his photo op and will be doing two fundraisers tonight. He's on it.

Too bad he didn't have a copy of Go Dog Go handy.

 

[Ilov80s]

What response though?

I've said it before: I'm not a world leader. It's not my job to make difficult and, most likely, no-win decisions.

It's your right to vote for our world leaders though. I'm not sure it's fair to say we need to do something other than sanctions, but not have any thoughts on what that is.

Why would I have thoughts? Based on what the media tells us? Over information collected by our agencies? That seems rather stupid.

You had thoughts a minute ago when you implied sanctions weren't enough.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Looking forward to finding out how he use of the word "may' is an impeachable crime. Issa's firing off a handful of unilateral subpoenas as we speak.

 

[BassNBrew]

MSNBC has it right

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/prankster-poses-as-ukraine-eyewitness-calls-msnbc-host-1606767078?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

She is a dumb one!

holy ####

Yeah I might have to switch over to MSNBC's coverage...

-QG

Was it this group that showed the live suicide on TV a couple of years ago in the fall?

 

[jonessed]

What response though?

I've said it before: I'm not a world leader. It's not my job to make difficult and, most likely, no-win decisions.

It's your right to vote for our world leaders though. I'm not sure it's fair to say we need to do something other than sanctions, but not have any thoughts on what that is.

Why would I have thoughts? Based on what the media tells us? Over information collected by our agencies? That seems rather stupid.

You had thoughts a minute ago when you implied sanctions weren't enough.

Sanctions aren't enough. At least not the type we have been tossing about. They just shot down a civilian airliner.

That doesn't necessarily mean that's all that might happen though. More sanctions may not even happen.

 

[Politician Spock]

MSNBC has it right

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/prankster-poses-as-ukraine-eyewitness-calls-msnbc-host-1606767078?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

She is a dumb one!

holy ####

Yeah I might have to switch over to MSNBC's coverage...

-QG

Was it this group that showed the live suicide on TV a couple of years ago in the fall?

That was Fox News.

 

[Ilov80s]

What response though?

I've said it before: I'm not a world leader. It's not my job to make difficult and, most likely, no-win decisions.

It's your right to vote for our world leaders though. I'm not sure it's fair to say we need to do something other than sanctions, but not have any thoughts on what that is.

Why would I have thoughts? Based on what the media tells us? Over information collected by our agencies? That seems rather stupid.

You had thoughts a minute ago when you implied sanctions weren't enough.

Sanctions aren't enough. At least not the type we have been tossing about. They just shot down a civilian airliner.That doesn't necessarily mean that's all that might happen though. More sanctions may not even happen.

What would be enough?

 

[timschochet]

EVERYTIME there is a crisis, some people just have to look for the conspiracy. Every ####### time.

IMO, there's a 99% chance that this was a ####up by the Ukraine rebels. That's how it appears, and that's how it probably is. I know that mistakes aren't nearly as interesting as deliberate actions, but usually mistakes are the main reason #### goes down- whether it's a plane crash, or how our government reports an embassy attack, or the IRS obtaining files they shouldn't have, or whatever. People screw up.

That being said, the fact that the Ukraine rebels have surface to air missiles and are firing them at all is disconcerting, and will inevitablity lead to even more trouble.

The Ukraine rebels? I'm confused. Over the last few days, it's been the pro-Russian seperatists that have shot down at least one Ukranian fighter jet (another was shot down by a Russian plane from inside Russian aairspace) and a Ukranian military transport aircraft.There hasn't been any mention of the Ukranian rebels using any type of anti-aircraft weapons, and if so, they weren't successful.

Wouldn't it be more likely that the pro-Russian seperatists mistaked the passenger jet for another Ukranian military aircraft and shot it down?

By Ukraine rebels, I meant the separatists, sorry.

 

[jonessed]

What response though?

I've said it before: I'm not a world leader. It's not my job to make difficult and, most likely, no-win decisions.

It's your right to vote for our world leaders though. I'm not sure it's fair to say we need to do something other than sanctions, but not have any thoughts on what that is.

Why would I have thoughts? Based on what the media tells us? Over information collected by our agencies? That seems rather stupid.

You had thoughts a minute ago when you implied sanctions weren't enough.

Sanctions aren't enough. At least not the type we have been tossing about. They just shot down a civilian airliner.That doesn't necessarily mean that's all that might happen though. More sanctions may not even happen.

What would be enough?

Legitimate economic sanctions on Russian industries and opening up more permits for natural gas exports to Europe.That would require a much bigger effort than what we have seen so far though.

 

[Ilov80s]

What response though?

I've said it before: I'm not a world leader. It's not my job to make difficult and, most likely, no-win decisions.

It's your right to vote for our world leaders though. I'm not sure it's fair to say we need to do something other than sanctions, but not have any thoughts on what that is.

Why would I have thoughts? Based on what the media tells us? Over information collected by our agencies? That seems rather stupid.

You had thoughts a minute ago when you implied sanctions weren't enough.

Sanctions aren't enough. At least not the type we have been tossing about. They just shot down a civilian airliner.That doesn't necessarily mean that's all that might happen though. More sanctions may not even happen.

What would be enough?

He can't be bothered with having solutions.

Right. I don't see how someone can say X is not enough, but not be able to define enough. Reminds me of conversations with ex-GFs.

 

[mr roboto]

Let's use the term 'pro-Russian rebels' to refer to Ukrainian separatists.

 

[jonessed]

What response though?

I've said it before: I'm not a world leader. It's not my job to make difficult and, most likely, no-win decisions.

It's your right to vote for our world leaders though. I'm not sure it's fair to say we need to do something other than sanctions, but not have any thoughts on what that is.

Why would I have thoughts? Based on what the media tells us? Over information collected by our agencies? That seems rather stupid.

You had thoughts a minute ago when you implied sanctions weren't enough.

Sanctions aren't enough. At least not the type we have been tossing about. They just shot down a civilian airliner.That doesn't necessarily mean that's all that might happen though. More sanctions may not even happen.

What would be enough?

He can't be bothered with having solutions.

Right. I don't see how someone can say X is not enough, but not be able to define enough. Reminds me of conversations with ex-GFs.

Quite the echo chamber you guys have going here.

 

[CBusAlex]

What should the response to this be?

Bomb Syria, obviously.

 

[msommer]

Latest is no confirmed Americans on board but 47 of unconfirmed nationality

154 Dutch

27 Australians

23 Malaysians

11 Indonesians

6 Brits

4 Germans

4 Belgians

3 Filipinos

1 Canadian

And no mayday

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Per CNN

Three months ago, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration prohibited U.S. airlines from flying in areas not far from where Flight 17 reportedly crashed Thursday. "Due to the potential for conflicting air traffic control instructions from Ukrainian and Russian authorities and for the related potential misidentification of civil aircraft, United States flight operations are prohibited until further notice in the airspace over Crimea, the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov," the FAA said in April. Thursday's plane crash reportedly was in eastern Ukraine, scores of miles north-northeast of the Sea of Azov.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Not sure where the reports of Americans (specifically a number such as 23) on board are coming from, but from CNN, none confirmed as of yet.

State Department: Unclear if Americans were aboard


A senior State Department official tells CNN's Elise Labott that Washington has the manifest of passengers aboard the Malaysian Airlines flight and is going through it.
“So far there are no American names to confirm,” the official said.

The official cautioned that doesn’t mean there are no Americans aboard. With such a long list of passengers, the official said there are some common names and others do not have passport numbers attached to them.

There could also be citizens of other countries with dual American nationality.

So far the State Department has not received inquiries from American citizens who say their family members were aboard, the official said.