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I guess. Media types eesh.
Hi Bia,The only point was trying to see how many folks agree that Manning is a cancer and if anyone would want him on their team.JNo contest Joe
Hotay Joe happyHi Bia,The only point was trying to see how many folks agree that Manning is a cancer and if anyone would want him on their team.JNo contest Joe
Manning.. what a bum!! 
a) Yes, more teams would have the Cap number this year to pay for Manningb) I'm sure they'd cut a few players to make it work if they really wanted him.20+ teams would go for Peyton.
Cap is going up to $109 million - there was plenty of money to go around last season even at $102 million. I think there might be more teams with that room than you think. Although I cannot find a 2007 projected cap site right now.
Sorry jets, Nothing cheap. Just trying to gauge what the SP thinks. That's usually why I ask these things.J
I'm not calling what you're trying to do "cheap". I'm saying that the question is flawed if you're trying to use it as an indication as to what the SP thinks about Manning Vs. T.O. with regard to being a cancer since there are a number of other factors that would go into a team's decision to pursue Manning Vs. pursing T.O. in free agency - the main one being the incredibly obvious fact that the to quarterback in the NFL is much more valuable than one of the top WR's in the NFL.
Take TO away from the Cowboys and they still have Glenn, Witten and a strong RB situation with Jones and Barber.Take Manning away from the Colts and they have Jim Sorgi.Nuff said.
joe's friday fishing trip is starting early this week. he must be off on friday.No contest JoeWhat is the point of this thread?Just
I guess. Media types eesh.
TO is a jerk and all but this is far from true unless average is 80 catches/1000 yards and 10 td's.
I'm not going to take one position or the other, but having a poll on this message board proves nothing. All we know is what each one does in the public forum, how much the media chooses to represent what happens, and how much spin they want to put on it.
Right but meanwhile, Terry Glenn is sitting on 65 catches/950 yards and 6 TD's without all the drama, disruption and for less money.TO is a jerk and all but this is far from true unless average is 80 catches/1000 yards and 10 td's.
not arguing money nor the disruption factor but the fact is he's NOT an average or slightly above average WR. He's the #2 scoring fantasy wr this year as we speak even though he was barely utilized prior to the Romo switch. People can hate him all they want, he gives them more enough ammo but he's still a top wr when he's given the ball.Right but meanwhile, Terry Glenn is sitting on 65 catches/950 yards and 6 TD's without all the drama, disruption and for less money.
Right but the cost for owning T.O. on your team goes beyond a monetary factor. I think he splits teams up, drives a wedge down the middle and divides the team up. I don't think he's worth the price you ultimately have to pay - again in a way other than his high salary.not arguing money nor the disruption factor but the fact is he's NOT an average or slightly above average WR. He's the #2 scoring fantasy wr this year as we speak even though he was barely utilized prior to the Romo switch. People can hate him all they want, he gives them more enough ammo but he's still a top wr when he's given the ball.Right but meanwhile, Terry Glenn is sitting on 65 catches/950 yards and 6 TD's without all the drama, disruption and for less money.
i thought we were talking about next year?his production is declining with age and i doubt he'd even hit 1k yards next year.not arguing money nor the disruption factor but the fact is he's NOT an average or slightly above average WR. He's the #2 scoring fantasy wr this year as we speak even though he was barely utilized prior to the Romo switch. People can hate him all they want, he gives them more enough ammo but he's still a top wr when he's given the ball.Right but meanwhile, Terry Glenn is sitting on 65 catches/950 yards and 6 TD's without all the drama, disruption and for less money.
Marvin Harrison is in decline as well....i thought we were talking about next year?his production is declining with age and i doubt he'd even hit 1k yards next year.not arguing money nor the disruption factor but the fact is he's NOT an average or slightly above average WR. He's the #2 scoring fantasy wr this year as we speak even though he was barely utilized prior to the Romo switch. People can hate him all they want, he gives them more enough ammo but he's still a top wr when he's given the ball.Right but meanwhile, Terry Glenn is sitting on 65 catches/950 yards and 6 TD's without all the drama, disruption and for less money.
I don't disagree with that. My disagreement was with whether he was a slightly above avg wr. He's not, he's still one of the top wr's in the league even though he's the biggest jerk in the league. The fact that that he still is so good and teams don't want him speaks volumes and I certainly wouldn't want him on my team despite the production.Right but the cost for owning T.O. on your team goes beyond a monetary factor. I think he splits teams up, drives a wedge down the middle and divides the team up. I don't think he's worth the price you ultimately have to pay - again in a way other than his high salary.not arguing money nor the disruption factor but the fact is he's NOT an average or slightly above average WR. He's the #2 scoring fantasy wr this year as we speak even though he was barely utilized prior to the Romo switch. People can hate him all they want, he gives them more enough ammo but he's still a top wr when he's given the ball.Right but meanwhile, Terry Glenn is sitting on 65 catches/950 yards and 6 TD's without all the drama, disruption and for less money.TO is a jerk and all but this is far from true unless average is 80 catches/1000 yards and 10 td's.
Gotcha, I agree that his talent level is indeed above average. What's difficult, for me, is putting my feelings aside and looking at just his numbers. I just wonder what sort of numbers would Reggie Wayne (for example) have if he were the #1 WR on the Cowboys and how much less turmoil would the team be in?All that aside I do understand your point and I agree the man is quite a talent but he's burned so many bridges at this point, he's going to be an island.I don't disagree with that. My disagreement was with whether he was a slightly above avg wr. He's not, he's still one of the top wr's in the league even though he's the biggest jerk in the league. The fact that that he still is so good and teams don't want him speaks volumes and I certainly wouldn't want him on my team despite the production.Right but the cost for owning T.O. on your team goes beyond a monetary factor. I think he splits teams up, drives a wedge down the middle and divides the team up. I don't think he's worth the price you ultimately have to pay - again in a way other than his high salary.not arguing money nor the disruption factor but the fact is he's NOT an average or slightly above average WR. He's the #2 scoring fantasy wr this year as we speak even though he was barely utilized prior to the Romo switch. People can hate him all they want, he gives them more enough ammo but he's still a top wr when he's given the ball.Right but meanwhile, Terry Glenn is sitting on 65 catches/950 yards and 6 TD's without all the drama, disruption and for less money.
IMO TO>>Wayne talent wise. I think Wayne is a good wr but he's a huge beneficiary of playing opposite Harrison and with Manning but that's another discussion. I think Glenn and Wayne are comparable although Glenn is obviously older.Gotcha, I agree that his talent level is indeed above average. What's difficult, for me, is putting my feelings aside and looking at just his numbers. I just wonder what sort of numbers would Reggie Wayne (for example) have if he were the #1 WR on the Cowboys and how much less turmoil would the team be in?All that aside I do understand your point and I agree the man is quite a talent but he's burned so many bridges at this point, he's going to be an island.I don't disagree with that. My disagreement was with whether he was a slightly above avg wr. He's not, he's still one of the top wr's in the league even though he's the biggest jerk in the league. The fact that that he still is so good and teams don't want him speaks volumes and I certainly wouldn't want him on my team despite the production.Right but the cost for owning T.O. on your team goes beyond a monetary factor. I think he splits teams up, drives a wedge down the middle and divides the team up. I don't think he's worth the price you ultimately have to pay - again in a way other than his high salary.not arguing money nor the disruption factor but the fact is he's NOT an average or slightly above average WR. He's the #2 scoring fantasy wr this year as we speak even though he was barely utilized prior to the Romo switch. People can hate him all they want, he gives them more enough ammo but he's still a top wr when he's given the ball.Right but meanwhile, Terry Glenn is sitting on 65 catches/950 yards and 6 TD's without all the drama, disruption and for less money.
"If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all be fat and happy"Any Indy homers know how his teammates feel about him based on local paper reports? I've never seen any stories where his teammates stuck up for him when he was getting bashed by the press. I've never heard of the defense coming out in his defense after a playoff loss and saying its not his fault. Maybe his teammates think he is a glory hound. Maybe they think he chokes in the playoffs. Maybe he rubs them the wrong way.
i agree, although not to the extent of TO, IMO.Marvin Harrison is in decline as well....i thought we were talking about next year?his production is declining with age and i doubt he'd even hit 1k yards next year.not arguing money nor the disruption factor but the fact is he's NOT an average or slightly above average WR. He's the #2 scoring fantasy wr this year as we speak even though he was barely utilized prior to the Romo switch. People can hate him all they want, he gives them more enough ammo but he's still a top wr when he's given the ball.Right but meanwhile, Terry Glenn is sitting on 65 catches/950 yards and 6 TD's without all the drama, disruption and for less money.
It does exactly what I intended to though. Poll the shark pool and provide an answer for what most people would give to : "how many folks agree that Manning is a cancer and if anyone would want him on their team."
J
I heard all the players, especially the WRs were all secretly lobbying Polian to trade Manning for Charlie Frye. Looking for a spark or something.Any Indy homers know how his teammates feel about him based on local paper reports? I've never seen any stories where his teammates stuck up for him when he was getting bashed by the press. I've never heard of the defense coming out in his defense after a playoff loss and saying its not his fault. Maybe his teammates think he is a glory hound. Maybe they think he chokes in the playoffs. Maybe he rubs them the wrong way.
J
:fiddlefaddle:
Well to be fair, a lot of the games where I get to see the Colts are against New England or in the playoffs.
Of course it's the defense. Nobody can possibly blame Manning. Look at last year, for example, when the Colts were in the top 1/3 of the NFL in defense. It was obviously the coach, the kicker, and the defense who let them down. Like in their first and only playoff game of the year. You might remember, the kicker missed the 46 yard kick to tie the game? So they ran the kicker out of town. Manning brought them to the 28 yard line, and with 30 seconds left and two time outs, he inexplicably started going for the end zone. They had plenty of time to pick up a couple more yards to get into comfortable field goal range. Manning chose not to. Could Vanderjagt have bailed him out? Sure. But that would have been considered a hell of a kick if he did. The other reason I say that game was Manning's fault, and not Vanderjagt's, is that Manning had already thrown the game ending interception to Troy Polamalu. Fortunately for the Colts, the refs inexplicably overturned it because, while untouched by a defender, his knee touched the ground during the interception. This was a blown call, and there's a five page thread on it from last year's playoffs if you're interested. But wait, when Manning got a second life, he surely must have led the drive you described, right? Nope. Instead, he took three straight sacks and gave up the ball to the Steelers. But that doesn't make sense. How did he get to the game tying field goal, then? Well, it turns out that the defense forced a Bettis fumble that gave Manning a THIRD chance, and he blew that, too. So when it comes down to it, yeah, I put a little blame on the quarterback. But Manning doesn't. He blamed the offensive line and the kicker. Now that's a leader.
shouldn't bloggers (as part of the fbg staff) be a little more accepting of posters' opinions?bfred has been around long enough to earn the respect of his thoughts, even if you don't agree with them.
There's a six page thread on this. Joe started a poll about it. I've discussed what I mean by "cancer" ad nauseum in there, but basically, it comes down to this: While Owens, off the field, may hurt his team's feelings, Manning, on the field, hurts his team's chances to win. Owens may not be perfect, but he's a lot better than people give him credit for, and he was very impressive leading his team in the Superbowl against the Patriots and in the biggest playoff comeback in history against the Giants. Manning may help teams get to the playoffs, but he has a bad habit of choking under pressure. This isn't news, although we have more data points to work with now than we did in the past. I don't pin the entire playoff losses on him, I discuss specific things he did wrong, like the three drives he had at the end of the Steelers game last year. I've done the same for other games. I know it's trendy to say that it's his defense letting him down, but his defense wasn't the problem in the 41-0 loss to the Jets in 2002, the 4 INT game against the Patriots in 2003, the 20-3 loss in 2004 (when he set the TD record), or the 21-18 loss against the Steelers when he got the ball back three times in the final three minutes of the game with timeouts left, and screwed up everything. But if it were just the headcase thing, I'd be done with it. The problem isn't just that he's a "choker". The problem is he doesn't take responsibility for it. Just like you, he blames the most accurate kicker in NFL history for missing a kick that was on the outside of his range. He blames his blocking. He blames the defense. He blames the referees. He yells at his receivers. Winners don't blame everyone else. Winners take responsibility for the loss, and they work hard so they can do better next time. If you can criticize Owens for calling out his quarterback or yelling on the sidelines, then you should be able to criticize Manning for doing the same. But you won't. Because it was his receiver's fault, and his offensive line should have blocked better in the play Manning audibled to, and Vanderjagt could have hit a field goal, and - and this one was my favorite from the other thread - it was Harper's fault for not returning the Bettis fumble for a touchdown.
Someone has speak up. The coaches act like nothings wrong. I think manning needs to do more of it. You will never understand what im saying. You are looking through Brady goggles
